I see someone hasn't actually played UC3. The scenery in those pics are all made up of polygons, as you can see the jaggies in all their glory when you reach that section.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Are current PC games a full "Generational Leap" ahead of current console games?
- Thread starter LowEndTorque
- Start date
I see someone hasn't actually played UC3. The scenery in those pics are all made up of polygons, as you can see the jaggies in all their glory when you reach that section.
I wish I could bet money on this.
Yes it does.
There's nothing impressive about those screenshots. The lower res, 30fps and jaggies are quite jarring, actually.
Good for console though, I guess.
We're talking about The Witcher 2 which is currently being developed for Xbox 360 and is said to run on Medium settings.
And the next gen which will let's say start in 2013 which is 8 years after the 360 launched.
8 years of technological advancement. Let's say 4 years of getting to know the hardware to constitute the latter part of the lifecycle. (Projected medium length generation.)
So 12 years later it will only jump from Medium to Ultra in The Witcher 2? If that is true I will eat an AMD graphics card.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Yeah, no effin' way (for me at least). Sorry that's not gonna do it.
That Witcher 2 posted above by iam220 does NOT look like a gen'l leap to me whatsoever and it blows my mind that so many think it is. The environment looks like it could be out of Gears of War, like a higher res GoW. And the ground textures are crap. Are you guys serious.... http://i.minus.com/ibxuQXVLGUkrF5.jpg <-- this pic is a gen'l leap???? turn in your graphics whore cards if you truly believe that.
Dude wtf? How can you question it being a generational leap? Let's look at previous leaps shall we:
Mario Bros. 3 to Mario World
Star Fox to Star Fox 64
Star Fox 64 to Rogue Leader, or Mario 64 to Mario Sunshine, Metal Gear Solid to Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 2 to Metal Gear Solid 4, God of War 2 to God of War 3, to Halo to Gears of War
Uncharted 3 to The Witcher 2 is the next leap. Its every bit as readily apparent as any of the other generational leaps if not more so. Its like comparing Clay animation to CGI. Its almost embarassing to own UC3 now. The Witcher 2 has polygon models at LEAST 10 times the complexity as Nathan. I mean, with each previous leap that's about the poly increase in main characters there abouts. His hair is as a realistic depiction of hair as I've ever seen. The game actually renders grass!
LightofRohan
Member
Yea, but look at those jaggies on the wire of Uncharted 3! Its unplayable, it's absolutely disgusting. I can't even see whats going on!
When did gamers get so uptight and sensitive to these things?
Barack Lesnar
Banned
THANK YOU! It is even DX9, I forgot about that.
Yeah its almost embarassing. Its like when I first played Virtua Fighter 3 and looked back on the hilariously dated Virtua Fighter 2. I mean, you can tell the difference from across a room. Did you see what Naughty Dog tried to pass off as water? Embarassing.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Those shots are downsampled and have massive amounts of JPEG compression. That's not what the game actually looks like
And frankly I'm pointing and laughing at it right now!
First off, the 360 port screens are just PC screens with the settings turned down which have been downsampled, so they're not indicative of what the game would look like running on the hardware. Secondly the amount of raw texture memory alone required to display Flotsam on high settings is well beyond anything a console can do right now from a technical perspective, and that's not even taking into account the fact that it's constantly streaming those assets in and out and rendering scores of villagers and buildings.
And if a PC port of Uncharted 3 shipped with textures the size of those in TW2 then there's a pretty good chance it would represent a generational leap.
Edit: uh oh, meltdown in progress :lol
Medium setting on what resolution 720p and what frame rate? We should also wait and see if they had to make any other sacrifices. Lord knows Crysis 2 had to.
Let's say for a moment we took Uncharted 3, let it run at 60 fps, 1080p, with tons of AA. It would still be garbage. Its like Metal Gear Solid, if you simply ran it at those settings, its still a turd right? Uncharted 3 would still be a turd if up-ressed and with ultra clean IQ. A turd.
LightofRohan
Member
And I never understood why you can't be both a console and a PC gamer. It works out well...
Uncharted 3 looks like complete shit, Witcher 2 is flawless beauty. Well, that's convenient for you.
Uncharted 3 looks like complete shit, Witcher 2 is flawless beauty. Well, that's convenient for you.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Logz be careufl because they will ban for this sarcastic and snarky stuff, like if it's really over the top.
rohlfinator
Member
What kind of hardware do you need to run Dolphin with the IQ of some of those shots posted a few pages back?
Those SMG shots look amazing, but it seems like it's mostly due to the insane AA/AF and strong art direction than anything.
Those SMG shots look amazing, but it seems like it's mostly due to the insane AA/AF and strong art direction than anything.
I totally agree.
Those shots are downsampled and have massive amounts of JPEG compression. That's not what the game actually looks like
And frankly I'm pointing and laughing at it right now!
First off, the 360 port screens are just PC screens with the settings turned down which have been downsampled, so they're not indicative of what the game would look like running on the hardware. Secondly the amount of raw texture memory alone required to display Flotsam on high settings is well beyond anything a console can do right now from a technical perspective, and that's not even taking into account the fact that it's constantly streaming those assets in and out and rendering scores of villagers and buildings.
And if a PC port of Uncharted 3 shipped with textures the size of those in TW2 then there's a pretty good chance it would represent a generational leap.
Edit: uh oh, meltdown in progress :lol
There's footage of the 360 port out there and proper screens of it, I'm not judging from the laughable "shots" posted in this thread.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Or when it's an attempt to avoid engaging with the argument while still appearing to retain the upper hand.
Present them please.
I simply can't believe that in my 25 years of gaming, I've seen each generation as a huge, paradigm shifting leap, but somehow, I couldn't recognize this one.
Diminishing returns does not exist. I don't even know what that means.
Goodnight everybody *exits stage right*
I used to be in the past and I am now again. That doesn't mean that putting high IQ on a current game is considered by me to be a generational leap which this topic is about.
I certainly didn't buy my PC to play console games, although the cheaper price and the better graphics in multiplats is a nice side benefits.
I bought it to play PC exclusives which have come out last year and are coming out this year which made the platform viable again to me and my gaming tastes.
I have.abuC said:
Here's a funny little thing - most, if not all of the mainly PC gamers in this thread also own and game on consoles.
I really doubt most of the console gamers pulling the "THERE'S NOT MUCH DIFFERENCE" routine own a top end gaming PC and experience both first hand.
I'd like to be proven wrong but I think the PC first people are more knowledgeable here
I seriously don't know what some of you people expect. All I know is there is going to be alot of disappointment.
There really isn't that much limitations anymore into what developers can do except for the storage(HD/DVD issue) and memory shortage. The more serious restrictions are on the developers side where they only have so much money, time, people, and skill.
There really isn't that much limitations anymore into what developers can do except for the storage(HD/DVD issue) and memory shortage. The more serious restrictions are on the developers side where they only have so much money, time, people, and skill.
If TW2 is roughly what next gen games will look like, even four years in, then I think I'm going to hold off on buying a console at all next gen. Maybe upgrading my four-year-old rig (which already runs TW2 in 1440 x 900) will be enough.
Owning a 2004 or 2005 rig though is not enough to run current gen console games. Maybe some of the launch games like Call of Duty 2 (which I remember running on a 2004 laptop). Are you really telling me that owning a high-end 2012 rig will be enough to run the games being played on a 2013 or 2014 console?
Barack Lesnar
Banned
For example, a decent duo or quad core cpu + a 5xxx series card works great with it. You don't need a super high-end PC for Dolphin. The thread has great info: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=395121
Just curious, how many people have actually played some of these PC games on Ultra settings?
You really have to see the games in action before you say it's not a generational leap. I was blown away when I played Metro 2033 on ultra for the first time, but then again this is my first gaming PC.
You really have to see the games in action before you say it's not a generational leap. I was blown away when I played Metro 2033 on ultra for the first time, but then again this is my first gaming PC.
Those shots are downsampled and have massive amounts of JPEG compression. That's not what the game actually looks like
And frankly I'm pointing and laughing at it right now!
They are jpeg but are not downsampled
LightofRohan
Member
I'm mainly a console gamer, yet I play a lot on my PC and my PC is very good (I'm in a visual effects school, it is needed). I enjoy both for different aspects.
jim-jam bongs
Member
OH GOD THE JAGGIES
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu9UyAVBk6g
Looks pretty decent to me.
I misremembered about the screens, seems CDP indeed only released downsampled screens.
In general: In terms of content, no they are not a "generation" away. In terms of image quality: BIG YES. The lack of proper AA and AF make many console games hard to look at for me these days. And the often sub 720p-res makes me go back to my PC. Not that 720p is much these days but the blur it creates through upscaling... 
fair enough
Also those UC3 shots are pretty brutal except for the last one
Nice shots Pranei_. That's quite representative of Uncharted 3's visual quality. Very good in terms of modeling and texturework, but the lighting tends to be flat in most shots, and the aliasing really does hurt the overall image a fair bit. It would be a downright gorgeous game at 1080p with 4xAA and SGSSAA.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
That's intentional.
Perhaps.
"I still think The Witcher 2 is absolutely gorgeous. Things I would expect in a "next gen" title are realistic hair. Fully dynamic lighting. Consistently excellent textures on absolutely ever inch of a scene. Subsurface light scattering on flesh. Massive amounts of tesselation, where absolutely nothing is flat unless it is natural for it to be so. Absolutely no polygonal short cuts...no "hexagonal mortars". No texture tiling whatsoever. Realistic foliage/vegetation, with transparent billboards being unrecognizable. Soft shadows, self shadowing on everything.
Yeah I'm not gonna get that next-gen. Its ok, I will be perfectly happy with TW2."
A next-gen leap isn't just about some slightly higher-res textures and some sweet IQ. Uncharted 3 in 1080p and perfect IQ would give TW2 a run for its money. TW2 would still be superior, but it will be barely noticeable. A leap requires more. I expect tessellation on everything, no flat roads, no flat surfaces whatsoever. No flat textures for grass, even if some polygonal grass is sitting on top. No transparent vegetation billboards simply bissecting each other at a 90 degree angle and calling it a day. Global illumination and softshadowing on everything. Sub-surface scattering to make flesh look natural and semi-translucent. Did I mention hair? I'm tired of hair with laughable hit detection and movement. Sorry, there's plenty of examples of LOLHAIR in TW2.
TW2 is still beautiful, don't get me wrong.
rohlfinator
Member
Nice, thanks! Looks like my rig should be able to handle it.
Are games mostly playable (on modest hardware) at that image quality or do people just turn on the SSAA for screenshots?
I need to go ahead and ask this question now: Am I insane if I have a high tolerance for aliasing? People keep complaining about AA, and I've never actually cared a shitload about it. I run all my PC games with no more than 2x AA because I don't think any more is worth the performance hit, and I can't really tell much of a difference beyond 4x.
jim-jam bongs
Member
It does, but it's also cam footage being recorded from a projector.
I'm just glad it saves me finding my own direct-feed shots to illustrate my points.
You're not insane, it's preference I guess.
Personally jaggies drive me crazy, they're the worst.
TW2 has great texture work and art, but yeah, it's not what I expect of a next-gen title. The shadows, in particular, are quite horrendous.
Crysis / Crysis 2 (not necessarily the games themselves, but what the engines are capable of) is about what I expect of next generation.
Say what you will about Crysis, but CryEngine can produce some ridiculous results.
Crysis / Crysis 2 (not necessarily the games themselves, but what the engines are capable of) is about what I expect of next generation.
Say what you will about Crysis, but CryEngine can produce some ridiculous results.
LightofRohan
Member
I just don't understand when IQ started to trump artistic design, production value and actual motion fidelity.
It would give TW2 a run for its money. It would suddenly become much more difficult to tell which was the more "Advanced" game. Taking a previous gen game, run it at a higher resolution and perfect AA should not result in an identical or near identical look to a supposedly "Next gen" game. It shouldn't be close. That' the idea behind a leap. I know people will leap on this and say "OMG TW2 would still blow it out of the water". For only the 1%, where miniscule improvements are stupendous achievements.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Never? Poor IQ can do a fantastic job of completely destroying those things though.
Not with those soupy textures it wouldn't.
This is impossible to even guess as we don't know what resolution most games will be aimin for. This could be achievable on a 720p resolution but will require some serious strength for 1080p. Also alot of that stuff is on the software side and really up to developers.
I do agree it would give The Witcher 2 a run for its money. They have very similar strength: texture and modeling work. Uncharted does have a significant edge on animations, though. Besides artwork, neither is technically very advanced in terms of lighting. They can't quite compete with Frostbite 2 or CryEngine 1/2 from a purely technical standpoint.
However, I do think that IQ is a much bigger factor than you say it is. Those Uncharted shots just don't look very good, and the main culprit is aliasing.
I run everything on what seems to be the current high end specs, not because I notice but because I can.
Jaggies get to me when they are as bad as they were in inFAMOUS. Which was an IQ mess.
The CryEngine 3 demo with the burning bridge and the water. I hope the engine distribution in games is going to be less like this gen where most stuff was Unreal to a more balanced situation where CryEngine will be a big contender. More variety will make everything better.TheExodu5 said:
Its Pranay btw
credits go to aldro from nd forum who took these screenshots.
Also he posted some multiplayer screenshots , though im pretty sure they are done through cinema mode, characters models are crap though
