Sirpopopop
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US PoliGAF 2012 | The Romney VeepStakes: Waiting for Chris Christie to Sing
- Thread starter Invisible_Insane
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ReBurn
Gold Member
Is that what would happen? Even if revenues were high enough to not need deficit spending?
TO STOP JOB CREATORS FROM CREATING JOBS, YOU MEAN.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
I get it now. lol
empty vessel
Member
So the government created $973 billion. Wasn't nearly enough.
Apropos of this, here are the Seven Deadly Innocent Frauds of Economic Policy:
1. The government must raise funds through taxation or borrowing in order to spend. In other words, government spending is limited by its ability to tax or borrow.
2. With government deficits, we are leaving our debt burden to our children.
3. Government budget deficits take away savings.
4. Social Security is broken.
5. The trade deficit is an unsustainable imbalance that takes away jobs and output.
6. We need savings to provide the funds for investment.
7. Its a bad thing that higher deficits today mean higher taxes tomorrow.
http://moslereconomics.com/wp-content/powerpoints/7DIF.pdf (PDF)
Libertarians should definitely take note.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Never going to happen with high unemployment and this trade deficit. Reality is, with unemployment where it is, high government spending is necessary to pick up the slack from the private sector. Manufacturing is getting better, things overall are getting better... we avoided economic disaster- that would not have been the case if not for high deficit spending.
Romney's the guy who said we should have let all those people lose their homes, let the foreclosures run it's course. You think that makes sense for the US economy in a time of high unemployment and rising poverty? Let the recession run it's course? I'm sure he and his buddies would make it just fine, with the poor and lower middle class turning into a permanent glorified serfdom.
ReBurn
Gold Member
That's a goldmine for conspiracy nuts anyway.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
PhoenixDark
Banned
Does he literally say corporations are not people? I'm at work and can't watch
jamesinclair
Banned
You know what Im hoping for at a debate?
A question on prices.
"Mr Romney, youve been accused of being so rich, youre out of touch with the real world. Can you please tell us the price of:
1) A bus fare in Boston
2) A gallon of milk
4) A bus ticket to NYC
5) etc"
I want to see wildly hilarious responses.
A question on prices.
"Mr Romney, youve been accused of being so rich, youre out of touch with the real world. Can you please tell us the price of:
1) A bus fare in Boston
2) A gallon of milk
4) A bus ticket to NYC
5) etc"
I want to see wildly hilarious responses.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
No. Not even close.
PhoenixDark
Banned
As if Obama knows that? I'd imagine Romney has pumped gas more times than Obama in the last three years
must....not.....ask....
dave is ok
aztek is ok
WHERE IS QUESTION 3?
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
More so when was a President meant to have an Almanac test in order to be President.
Invisible_Insane
Member
We barely agreed on what such things cost in this thread the last time consumer prices came up; I can't imagine how asking this question at a national debate would be worthwhile.
empty vessel
Member
It is fact. Modern Monetary Theory (its main thrust) merely describes how a fiat currency monetary system operates. Those criticisms to which you cite are based either on a misunderstanding of what MMT is (and says) or a misunderstanding of the empirical nature of a fiat currency monetary system. Or both, of course.
I would be happy to debate you substantively on this subject, but I suspect you know nothing about it and just found a Wikipedia page with a "criticisms" entry to which to cite.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Probably a question on the price of a Miller Lite 6 pack, omitted because Romney can't drink
Invisible_Insane
Member
What kind of sad sack buys a six-pack of Miller Lite? Microbrew or gtfo.
/east-coast elitist
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Last time I took a bus to NYC it was 30 bucks. I think Feng Hua might be a bit cheaper.
Bus is $1.25
Bus is $1.25
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Now what if you don't take the bus and just use the subway and/or NJT?
jamesinclair
Banned
Im sorry, when was I talking about Obama? Im talking about the republican field. Well yeah, I grant you theres some confusion about that.
The former governor of Massachusetts should know the price of public transit in Boston, which has remained stable since he left. We can ask him about the price of light rail tickets in SLC as well if youd like. We can ask Newt the price of the DC metro fare. Although thats a trick question, he will embarrass himself by going off an unrelated rant.
Any american should have a general idea of the price of a basic item like milk. Obviously, it varies daily and by location, but anything in the vicinity of $3 a gallon should be good.
price of a craigslist hooker
Id also accept price of beer, price of amtrak travel between Boston and DC (romney wants to abolish amtrak, like any good republican) and so forth.
actually, the WH makes its own beer now under Obama. I'm hoping the liking of Bud Light was for the visibility of supporting a Real American
Belgian
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
No, it's not, just saying it is won't magically make it so.
I suspect you found it and since it agreed with your political views, just lapped it up.
Invisible_Insane
Member
Fung Wah (NYC-Boston) is 15.
It seems worth pointing out that after the Beer Summit, Fox criticized Obama for not drinking American (Anheuser-Busch was taken over by InBev, which is Belgian-Brazilian).
Just sayin'.
Skiptastic
Member
I struggle to really come down hard on you for some of this stuff, because if Mitch Daniels was in this race I'd be really pushing him hard. But at some point, you gotta just accept reality. Huntsman is done this round.Ramussan was polling Huntsman at 7 percent two days before the New Hampshire Primary.
A little off
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
No you can't. I don't expect Tom Corbett to know the prices of the various hunting licenses in PA and hunting licenses are a major revenue source for the state of PA. That said I don't see the value in being able to recall minutia in determining ones ability to govern when such information can be looked up with ease.
I bet you most people will only have a vague idea only because most will be able to reason that it's under five dollars and more than two. The margin of error is so small that guessing it would most likely give an acceptable range.
jamesinclair
Banned
The point is that someone who drops $10,000 bets like its an average day is out of touch.
When this candidate proposes things like slashing transit funding, its important to see if he has any clue how much a bus pass costs.
I find it likely Romney would say something remarkably outdated for rail fares like $.75 when its close to $2, or something remarkably high, like $5, because really, whats $5? When parking downtown costs $35 a day, surely $5 is a remarkable bargain!
adamsappel
Member
It was a serious question, and it would not matter to me at all. Since the choice of what to swear on (or to "swear" at all) is up to the president-elect, I wondered if he would be expected, by other Mormons, to use the Book of Mormon. I understand that Mormons believe in the Bible, but I've always assumed it was in the same manner that Christians believe in the Old Testament (Torah), and Muslims with both books. A jumping-off point for their true book of faith.
ReBurn
Gold Member
Personally I don't know what would have happened. I was just questioning whether running budget deficits is always necessary since you didn't qualify when deficit spending is appropriate. I don't know how one would substantiate any of what you just said, but I understand your sentiment and your emotion.
Truth be told, I don't think that the stimulus went far enough, and I think that much of it was spent on less than worthwhile interests. The automaker bailout seems to have done the job, and I think that it was a good idea. I don't think enough was done concerning regulations on the financial system, but that's a topic for another thread.
empty vessel
Member
Yes, it is. You don't even have the slightest idea about the underlying substance of what we are talking about. Why are you arguing with me when I tell you that MMT purports to be--and in fact is--descriptive of how a fiat currency monetary system operates? If you think that a monopoly issuer of currency is revenue-constrained (i.e., must raise revenue in order to spend currency), please present your argument why that is so. And, while you're at it, explain where the revenue comes from that it has to raise before it can spend.
Again, you don't know what you are talking about. MMT does not support any particular political view, as it is merely descriptive of how a fiat currency system operates. It can support having a small public sector just as much as having a large public sector. It, in fact, can even support lowering taxes (provided economic conditions call for it and there aren't countervailing policy reasons for refraining from doing so, i.e., maintain relative equality by maintaining relatively higher taxes on the wealthy). What it does do is opens ones eyes to the possibilities that exist in such a system (which is the system we in fact have).
Invisible_Insane
Member
I'm pretty skeptical about the idea that being "in touch" would necessarily make anyone a better president. If you're the sort of person who thought it ridiculous that George W. Bush was largely elected for being affable, you shouldn't be pushing this line of attack.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Corporations aren't sentient beings. Do they have a conscience?
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
Damn. I didn't know that. And made with Michelle's sweet sweet nectar.
Invisible_Insane
Member
What the fuck, Baggins.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
it is ??????? and the answer is PROFIT
empty vessel
Member
You are terrible at this, you know that? (For the record, what I said about maintaining higher taxes on the rich does not flow from MMT. If you knew anything about it, instead of knee-jerk reacting to anything I type, you would have understood that. MMT, in fact, makes clear that these are pure policy choices to be decided democratically and thus takes away one argument for maintaining high taxes on the wealthy, i.e., the argument that the government needs their money to operate.)
PhoenixDark
Banned
Too much cholesterol for me
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
You seem to be the one getting angry about me pointing out that you economic opinion, is just that, an opinion.
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
Ok. vomited nectar. Is that better?
It was made with honey that she collected from her garden.
Invisible_Insane
Member
That's mead, you ass.
Out of curiosity, can you please provide a competing theory on fiat money that supports your politics, so that at least a discussion is going on, rather than you just putting your fingers in your ears and chanting "Nanananana, I'm not listening!"?
Hobbits is tricksie.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
That's gross. Don't you know girls have cooties?
empty vessel
Member
I'm not angry, I just loathe willful ignorance. If you want to talk about a subject, then go learn about it and let's talk about it.
What you are doing is the equivalent of denying climate change. People may disagree about why the climate is changing or what to do about it, but that the climate is, in fact, changing, is not disputable by rational people (i.e., people who do not deny empirical evidence). MMT economists talk about the implications of a fiat currency monetary system, and they may express their own views about how a government utilizing such a system should behave under any given economic circumstances. Disagreeing with that is different from denying what a fiat currency monetary system is, which is what you are obliviously doing.
It is not an opinion that a government with a fiat currency monetary system is not revenue-constrained. It is a fact.
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