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[Wray]

So did you apparently. That's turnout, not demographics. Assuming same turnout in 2012 as 2008 is pretty dubious.

Still not getting it.

Even if turnout is lower, the raw numbers would still be the same or higher due to a much larger demographic.

And again, we're comparing 2000 to 2016. The 2000 election is infamous for historically low turnout, especially the youth bracket.

 

[bananas]

It's a one word opinion surrounded by facts. Enjoy.

Well, seeing how liberal has become a sort of demonized description in the current political climate, it would make sense people wouldn't necessary want to associate with the term. Even if they do lean left, they would rather consider themselves "independent." That's not to say conservatives don't do this, but I would argue conservative is a more positive term.

 

[elrechazado]

Still not getting it.

Even if turnout is lower, the raw numbers would still be the same or higher due to a much larger demographic.

And again, we're comparing 2000 to 2016. The 2000 election is infamous for historically low turnout, especially the youth bracket.

So you are agreeing with me that you're talking about turnout.

 

[Byakuya769]

You always have to bring your weak-ass trolling into this thread.

Gotta get thicker skin, man.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

A COMPELLING ARGUMENT and thoroughly backed up by examples. Well done.

He's a fucking moron. He's spent a good portion of the last few years promoting Trig trutherism. It's pretty sad that people take him seriously. Do you?

 

[PhoenixDark]

A COMPELLING ARGUMENT and thoroughly backed up by examples. Well done.

I'm not going to defend Bilbo, but Sullivan's Palin freakout was one of the most disgusting things about the 2008 and 2010 elections, and it was interesting that many liberals took glee in them instead of calling out the blatant sexism and downright ugliness of it. And don't give me the "well she was saying bad things about gay people" shit, that doesn't excuse toxic speech

 

[elrechazado]

He's a fucking moron. He's spent a good portion of the last few years promoting Trig trutherism. It's pretty sad that people take him seriously. Do you?

Between that and his hillary hard on, it's pretty easy to make a case he just hates women generally. The trig stuff was hilarious.

 

[Zabka]

I'm not going to defend Bilbo, but Sullivan's Palin freakout was one of the most disgusting things about the 2008 and 2010 elections, and it was interesting that many liberals took glee in them instead of calling out the blatant sexism and downright ugliness of it. And don't give me the "well she was saying bad things about gay people" shit, that doesn't excuse toxic speech

Sarah Palin is a compulsive liar. I have no problem with anyone questioning anything she says.

 

[elrechazado]

Sarah Palin is a compulsive liar. I have no problem with anyone questioning anything she says.

oh my, another truther!

 

[ivysaur12]

I wish the Republican primaries were more fun. 2008 and now 2012 have both been the same - nominating the second place guy.

Where is my Bush v McCain rumble?! Ross Perot election-bombing the Dole campaign?!

 

[Zabka]

oh my, another truther!

This is such a sad way to shut down any discussion.

 

[JCreasy]

I'm not going to defend Bilbo, but Sullivan's Palin freakout was one of the most disgusting things about the 2008 and 2010 elections, and it was interesting that many liberals took glee in them instead of calling out the blatant sexism and downright ugliness of it. And don't give me the "well she was saying bad things about gay people" shit, that doesn't excuse toxic speech

Wait YOU'RE PhoenixDark!? You're black!? Wow I had no idea man what's up.

This real pic Jan thing is a trip.

 

[elrechazado]

This is such a sad way to shut down any discussion.

I'm sure I'd get much more nuanced responses if I started "just asking questions" about Barack Obama's birth certificate, but whatever makes you feel good about associating with nonsense.

 

[Puddles]

There is no "real" disdain for Europe, just like there's no real disdain for PBS, at least among the average person. Associating Obama with foreigners is just something the GOP loves to do because it feeds into the narrative that he's not one of us.

There's this idea that Europeans (western and northern, not just eastern and southern) are bloated, unsustainable socialist states collapsing under the weight of the free handouts they give to their unmotivated citizens which they fund by taxing the ingenuity and drive out of their entrepreneurs.

I've had more than a few people say to me in all seriousness: "Universal healthcare? You can see how well that's working out for Europe!" All that was missing was a "derp" at the end.

Americans have a ludicrously inaccurate mental picture of most European states.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

I'm not going to defend Bilbo, but Sullivan's Palin freakout was one of the most disgusting things about the 2008 and 2010 elections, and it was interesting that many liberals took glee in them instead of calling out the blatant sexism and downright ugliness of it. And don't give me the "well she was saying bad things about gay people" shit, that doesn't excuse toxic speech

Thanks man. Between the Palin meltdown and the Clinton hatred, I feel he may have issues with women. Just an opinion but I'm glad others see it too.

 

[Zabka]

I'm sure I'd get much more nuanced responses if I started "just asking questions" about Barack Obama's birth certificate, but whatever makes you feel good about associating with nonsense.

I didn't bring anything up. I just said she has made dozens of public false statements that are easily disproven. If you want to make false equivalencies then feel free to do so.

Thanks man. Between the Palin meltdown and the Clinton hatred, I feel he may have issues with women. Just an opinion but I'm glad others see it too.

Andrew Sullivan was a Margaret Thatcher conservative.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/videos/2011/11/30/margaret-thatcher-s-biggest-fan.html

 

[Wray]

So you are agreeing with me that you're talking about turnout.

Nope, try again. Still not getting it I see.

 

[elrechazado]

I didn't bring anything up. I just said she has made dozens of public false statements that are easily disproven. If you want to make false equivalencies then feel free to do so.

Andrew Sullivan was a Margaret Thatcher conservative.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/videos/2011/11/30/margaret-thatcher-s-biggest-fan.html

Sarah palin has told lies, therefore, it is rational to believe she didn't have a baby, despite reality. Ok man.

Nope, try again. Still not getting it I see.

lol

 

[Zabka]

Sarah palin has told lies, therefore, it is rational to believe she didn't have a baby, despite reality. Ok man.


lol

That's exactly what I said. You are good at arguments.

 

[RDreamer]

I've had more than a few people say to me in all seriousness: "Universal healthcare? You can see how well that's working out for Europe!" All that was missing was a "derp" at the end.

The universal healthcare misconception is pretty insane. People literally believe you wait forever to even get any care, and that people will literally die waiting or die because the government hasn't deemed them worthy to get care. I'll hear conservatives like my mom and dad and some of the people I went to school with swear up and down they know first hand some person that was in the UK or Canada or whatever and they hated the system. A girl I went to school with believe Canadian universal healthcare literally killed her grandmother. It's completely bizarre to me because I don't think I've ever seen someone from any European country online say they'd rather have the US system, and any complaint I've seen has been relatively mild. I mean people will have complaints about anything no matter how good or bad it is

 

[elrechazado]

That's exactly what I said. You are good at arguments.

You're good at reading what you wrote apparently.

 

[Puddles]

The universal healthcare misconception is pretty insane. People literally believe you wait forever to even get any care, and that people will literally die waiting or die because the government hasn't deemed them worthy to get care. I'll hear conservatives like my mom and dad and some of the people I went to school with swear up and down they know first hand some person that was in the UK or Canada or whatever and they hated the system. A girl I went to school with believe Canadian universal healthcare literally killed her grandmother. It's completely bizarre to me because I don't think I've ever seen someone from any European country online say they'd rather have the US system, and any complaint I've seen has been relatively mild. I mean people will have complaints about anything no matter how good or bad it is

My first trip to Europe was to London in 2007, while Bush was still in office. I never started it, but when people found out I was American, they constantly wanted to have political conversations with me. It was mostly about Iraq, but healthcare often came up, and none of them could understand why we do things the way we do. It was the same in France. It was the same with the Canadian teachers I worked with in Korea.

Our system is seen as ass-backwards by almost every other developed country in the world. That's what makes it so hilarious (and sad) when conservatives talk about "European welfare states" like Europeans are the fools who refuse to see the light.

 

[rohlfinator]

The greatest weakness is also its saving grace. The voice of the minority is important. If the prevailing wind becomes more conservative in the coming years then people with more liberal sensibilities will be grateful for these protections.

I don't get it though -- it doesn't protect minorities, per se, just smaller states.

That might have made more sense 200 years ago when citizens' interests were more closely tied to their geographical locations, but it really seems like a pointless system in this day and age.

 

[Measley]

The universal healthcare misconception is pretty insane. People literally believe you wait forever to even get any care, and that people will literally die waiting or die because the government hasn't deemed them worthy to get care. I'll hear conservatives like my mom and dad and some of the people I went to school with swear up and down they know first hand some person that was in the UK or Canada or whatever and they hated the system. A girl I went to school with believe Canadian universal healthcare literally killed her grandmother. It's completely bizarre to me because I don't think I've ever seen someone from any European country online say they'd rather have the US system, and any complaint I've seen has been relatively mild. I mean people will have complaints about anything no matter how good or bad it is

Yeah, anytime that discussion comes up, I ask the person what their thoughts are on healthcare in industrialized countries outside of Europe and Canada, like Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea. Everytime I ask that, they look at me with a puzzled look, as if they don't realize that EVERY industrialized country in the world has UHC except the United States.

I also find it hilarious that people seem to forget that Germany has one of the oldest UHC systems in the world, yet its held up as a model of economic prosperity and stability (even by conservatives).

 

[Invisible_Insane]

Yeah. In this country, thankfully only ~20% of people identify themselves as liberals. Conservatives are >40% and moderates are the remaining 35-40%.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/148745/political-ideology-stable-conservatives-leading.aspx

Oh, Baggins.

I qualified the statement for a reason--on any number of issues, whether it's solutions to the health insurance question or the preferred distribution of income, people in the US tend to prefer liberal policy prescriptions. Conservatives just have much better marketing.

 

[empty vessel]

Oh, Baggins.

I qualified the statement for a reason--on any number of issues, whether it's solutions to the health insurance question or the preferred distribution of income, people in the US tend to prefer liberal policy prescriptions. Conservatives just have much better marketing.

Yep, and self-identifications don't tell you much more about an individual other than what they believe it is socially preferable to say. In other words, people call themselves conservative because they believe that's what their friends and family (and any trusted authority figures) would expect them to call themselves. Most people, though, are apolitical and have no consistent, coherent or even discernible ideological orientation (which is not to say that they don't have beliefs, principles and values). Their political/ideological naivete is what makes them prime targets for marketing. And, in fact, we see that they are marketed to. The "fakeness" of candidate campaigns is probably one of the few things that all politically involved people (regardless of orientation) agree is detestable. But that show isn't for us, it's for the other 95% of the population.

 

[Mortrialus]

Thanks man. Between the Palin meltdown and the Clinton hatred, I feel he may have issues with women. Just an opinion but I'm glad others see it too.

You say that as if you haven't posted blatantly sexist things on this forum in the past.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Ron Paul doesn't mind using tax payer funding for first class flights

http://www.chron.com/news/article/Paul-fights-Washington-spending-flies-first-class-2562010.php

I'm not going to defend Bilbo, but Sullivan's Palin freakout was one of the most disgusting things about the 2008 and 2010 elections, and it was interesting that many liberals took glee in them instead of calling out the blatant sexism and downright ugliness of it. And don't give me the "well she was saying bad things about gay people" shit, that doesn't excuse toxic speech

If you were following his blog, you will notice many people including liberals writing in and telling him that he is paying too much attention to Palin especially the Trig story. He has addressed this many times.

http://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2010/06/why-does-trig-matter/185362/

And I can compare this to Obama's birther investigations. Remember, Obama's certificate of Live birth was available well before the 2008 Elections. I don't care much for this theory but Sullivan believes that Trig is a central part of Palin's persona. She uses them and holds them for speeches and interviews, his story is central to Palin's narrative. And his questions go beyond Trig's maternity. It is, how is it considered sane for Palin to fly to Alaska on a long ass flight after her water broke. Or, how did she even decide to do that travel when she was due. My cousin is pregnant and she was forbidden to fly more than a month before due date. He has raised valid questions I feel about the process, while I don't doubt Trig is Palin's baby, some of the things Palin did when Pregnant with him are questionable.

And he has actually given no attention to it for quite some time now.

 

[The Librarian]

Re: brands in America:

It's irrelevant.

 

[jamesinclair]

Ron Paul doesn't mind using tax payer funding for first class flights

http://www.chron.com/news/article/Paul-fights-Washington-spending-flies-first-class-2562010.php.

Misleading article. Almost no US airline offers first class anymore for domestic flights.

He was probably in business.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Misleading article. Almost no US airline offers first class anymore for domestic flights.

He was probably in business.

In my flights for work, US Airways has always referred to it as first class.

 

[Matt]

Misleading article. Almost no US airline offers first class anymore for domestic flights.

He was probably in business.

...hu? That's not true....

 

[Vicetrailia]

How can anyone respect Huntsman, that guy is too much of an opportunist.

Supports Romney because he wants a position, yeah okay.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

How can anyone respect Huntsman, that guy is too much of an opportunist.

Supports Romney because he wants a position, yeah okay.

Back to China we goes. lol

 

[elrechazado]

Misleading article. Almost no US airline offers first class anymore for domestic flights.

He was probably in business.

heh, wrong

 

[AlteredBeast]

How can anyone respect Huntsman, that guy is too much of an opportunist.

Supports Romney because he wants a position, yeah okay.

You mean he is a politician?!!?! It is clear I think Huntsman is a douchebag, but he isn't the only one.

 

[cooljeanius]

Too bad about Huntsman. I'm supporting Colbert for the Republican nomination now that Huntsman's out.

 

[SolKane]

That ABC interview with Stephen Colbert is the funniest thing I've seen in a long time.

 

[AlteredBeast]

That ABC interview with Stephen Colbert is the funniest thing I've seen in a long time.

link?

 

[Measley]

Too bad about Huntsman. I'm supporting Colbert for the Republican nomination now that Huntsman's out.

Ironically, a joke character created by a comedian had as much chance of winning the nomination as John Huntsman.

As for the Sullivan article, the main thing I gleaned from it was that the entire Republican platform (pretty much lying about every aspect of Obama's record, and opposing everything he does) is based on a giant sham. Once it gets brought to light, and it will get brought to light, the GOP is going to be in a whole lot of trouble.

 

[Lambtron]

Once it gets brought to light, and it will get brought to light, the GOP is going to be in a whole lot of trouble.

Honest question, what makes you think the bolded? The media is a joke and treats a lot of the Republican opposition to Obama's agenda as a false equivalence.

Obama: "We'd like to be able to provide healthcare for the young, the elderly, and the poor."
Republicans: "They want to kill your granny!"
Media: "They just can't get along!"

It's a fucking joke. And it's in the best interest of both political parties to keep this sham up, because they can keep power contained within the two parties basically perpetually like this.

 

[Measley]

Honest question, what makes you think the bolded? The media is a joke and treats a lot of the Republican opposition to Obama's agenda as a false equivalence.

Obama: "We'd like to be able to provide healthcare for the young, the elderly, and the poor."
Republicans: "They want to kill your granny!"
Media: "They just can't get along!"

It's a fucking joke. And it's in the best interest of both political parties to keep this sham up, because they can keep power contained within the two parties basically perpetually like this.

The media following the conventions tends to be a lot more hard-hitting and responsible. Also the Republican nominee for President isn't going to be able to hide out at Fox News. They're going to have to do the rounds of nearly every show on television.

Also the debates do a good job of weeding out the B.S. A big reason why Obama won in 2008 was because he bested McCain pretty handily in all three debates.

 

[Oblivion]

Happy MLK day, everyone!

 

[Byakuya769]

I wouldn't say those were "tasteless" per se, but definitely not funny.

 

[RDreamer]

I find them offensively bad and slightly sickening, actually.

 

[SolKane]

link?

http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/video/interview-stephen-colbert-15365205

 

[jamesinclair]

In my flights for work, US Airways has always referred to it as first class.

...hu? That's not true....

heh, wrong

They call it premium class now, but there are only 2* seating levels. Premium and coach.

*United has that economy plus crap.


Obviously, there are 10+ fare levels.

True first is reserved for planes that do international duty and transcontinentals.


Edit:
According to the article Ron Paul obviously flies frequently on Continental from National to Texas (Houston?)
Heres the seating chart
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Co...g_737-800.php?Orig=DCA&Dest=IAH&Date=20120127

No true first class, just business.

Edit 2:
Apparently no continental plane offers first class even more, not even the 777

 

[AlteredBeast]

http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/video/interview-stephen-colbert-15365205

Thanks.


and can I say DAMN to those cartoons. Major balls...and not a hint of class.

 

[sc0la]

Happy MLK day, everyone!

wow... just wow.


EDIT:
don't have a problem with the second one, fair game even if wrong.

but the first one is all kinds of tasteless. lol its mlk day so we will use another black person as a reference, good idea! The idea that US business interests were ever in the position of blacks during the civil rights struggle is absolutely laughable. sick

 

[Dude Abides]

All that Ramirez dude's cartoons are like that.