Halo 4 Announced (MS Conf, 2012, Start Of New Trilogy)
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AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
I agree, 100%!!
Haha, yes! I agree, 100% too!
higherARC05
Banned
When are we getting HALO 4 news?
How is that a bad thing? What was a plot point left for an NPC to resolve.
I don't think the game would be improved if instead of Arbiter getting his revenge, our faceless superhuman punched a decrepit old man in the face. To death. Again.
Well, I guess he could dig up Hitler's mech suit...
It is incredibly influential, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing. It's responsible for the poor state the genre finds itself in. There's a reason why every notable sci-fi thing in a very long time gets praised for taking inspiration from completely different sources.
And your description of Halo 3 closely resembles what Aliens did to Alien.
Hire TheOddOne.
Listen to this man.
Add in:
- the encounter design of Halo 3
- the weapon sandbox of Halo 1 (I personally think that mid-long range weapons like the BR, DMR, carbine and the needle rifle changed the halo combat dynamics for the worse)
The Librarian
Banned
Ding, ding, ding!
I fully agree with you here. Halo has become the sniper game of sniper games. I want every weapon to be useful on some distances, not like battle rifle and the sniper rifle that is preferred regardless of how far or distant the enemy is.
Make every weapon useful, please.
Aliens expanded upon the universe created with Alien. Go back and watch it again, it's nowhere near the action-fest that a lot of people make it out to be. The main marines each had their own distinct and fairly fleshed-out personalities. They weren't a walking caricature like Sgt. Johnson. Just because there's a vocal minority backlash against Aliens does not mean it's not just as good as the original, if in a different aspect. I'm glad Cameron went with a different style rather than a retread of the original movie. But all of that is neither here nor there with Halo 4.
Etrian Oddity
Member
Because it committed the mortal sin of video games: Removing control from a player in a crucial situation. In no way is it better for Truth--the biggest, most evil villain in the series we have seen--to be anticlimactically offed in a cutscene.
Arbiter could have been playable, but again the casual backlash of playing an Elite removed any possibility of another split-protagonist campaign. Truth should have been the final boss, not 343--which in itself felt like huge fanservice to the people who were annoyed with Guilty Spark's character, rather following through with the threads they set up in Halo 2.
It just was icing on the cake of terrible writing for that game. Calling it Michael Bay was truly on-point, because for how great the AI was, the story truly was the worst in the Halo franchise.
And to that clown who said I was bitter because CoD has surpassed Halo... lol. No, I'm bitter because dudebros caused Halo's plot to be outright castrated in the final game of the trilogy.
I think 343i brought in the Mass Effect guy for such a reason.
It was nice shooting GS but I wish he had received some powersuit to get so real action going.
Truth was a weakling and fighting Super Flooded Truth was the only reasonnable chance at having a Boss fight. A quick and dirty death was all he deserved, but the reunion was too crowded and all deaths felt forced.
The Elite
BOSS
It would have been cool if GS had downloaded into Forerunner armour for that final confrontation.
Hypertrooper
Member
lol. Better boss fights? What are you talking about? Halo should never have ANY boss fights in the first place. They were shitty, boring. Fighting against the Prophet or Gravemind would never be fun like the fight against two Scarabs...
specialguy
Banned
I'd love to see more bosses in Halo. It's so damn uncreative doing the same thing every single time ending with no boss. And half the time ending it on a warthog run *yet again* because you're just that creatively bankrupt. And it wasn't even a good ending the first time ten years ago.
Bosses in general are a part of gaming I like and think we need more of.
Scarab fights stink imo.
Bosses in general are a part of gaming I like and think we need more of.
Scarab fights stink imo.
The Librarian
Banned
You want more boss fights in Halo be don't like the best boss fights featured in the games?
You sir are crazy.
Ending on a hog run isn't creative bankruptcy. It's a callback. If it was the SAME warthog run from the last game, then it'd be creatively bankrupt.
It's like saying ending a Mario game on a challenging Bowser level is creatively bankrupt. Just like a movie or a book, you callback and connect with the previous works in the series.
If Bungie had been able to get Forerunner Ship finished in time for Halo 2 ship, Halo 1, 2, and 3 would have all ended with a Warthog Run. It's the Bowser Level of the Halo series, the James Bond chase scene, and I don't see anything wrong with it. Even Reach has one, although they inverted it and put the run where it's "fuck fuck FUCK just RUN FUCK" first and the holdout encounters second.
When you put boss fights in Halo you get shit like Tartarus and the 343GS fight in H3. Those were just junk with only one, uncreative way to play them out. Just like any boss fight in any game I have ever played. They're not just a part of gaming, they're a plague.
Now if there was occasional, dynamic, and powerful enemies spread around to encounters that acted as a not so vulnerable Hunter I would be fine with that. Just give me the whole halo sandbox to take them down with.
The Librarian
Banned
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Just because past Halo bosses have been rather.. crap, doesn't mean future bosses have to be. It all depends on how well crafted they are. Tartypants was a chore and GS was little more than a prettied up QTE.
The Scarabs in Halo 3 were stupid amounts of awesome. We need more fresh encounters like that in future.
The Scarabs in Halo 3 were stupid amounts of awesome. We need more fresh encounters like that in future.
dragonelite
Member
So the occasional mini boss fight ?
I agree, that's one good way to do a boss. Even though there is only one way to actually kill it, there are many ways to actually get to that point and you're not forced to do it in any certain way.
If Hunters are considered by you to be mini-bosses then yeah. Scarabs would fall into the same category. Still relatively easy to take out, but they pack a huge punch.
The Librarian
Banned
Obviously the next way to evolve it would be to simply give it more ways to be finished off.
Hypertrooper
Member
Do the Scarab fights really count as a boss fight? I thought there were just a bigger enemy and I was fine with it.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Not really. Adding more ways to beat a Scarab would run the risk of making the encounter easier and taking out the challenge of it completely. It would be far better to mess with expectations and have the encounter surprise returning players by changing it's expected patterns and weaknesses.
I love both Halo and UC but in no way do I want Halo to be more "cinematic". Sorry but IMO more games should be more open like Halo, not more scripted like UC, CoD, BF3, *insert linear game here*. We already have plenty scripted games, but we don't have enough games that have more open sandboxes in their firefights.
I always thought the Half Life series had pretty good AI =/ To be fair, it's been a few years since I played HL2 though.
Heh, it's because of Halo 2 that I don't get too excited for any upcoming Halo games. =p
The Librarian
Banned
Having more cinematic moments doesn't necessarily preclude having big, open maps. One of my favourite moments in Halo 3 was when the forward unto dawn landed right on top of you on "the the ark" level. More jaw-dropping moments like that wouldn't compromise the gameplay.
Come to think of it, a lot of the events that happened in cutscenes might have had more impact if they'd happened during gameplay, one that springs to mind is the sequence at the end of "the storm" where the UNSC fleet fires upon the forerunner dreadnaught, the ark opens up, and the flood ship crashes on earth. There's no reason why story elements like that couldn't happen in first person.
squidhands
Member
Halo 4 Scarabs: now with beefier knees!
I can understand wishing for more FUD moments, but even bungie have mentioned before how hard it is to balance scripted events in an uncontrolled environment since they can be so easy to miss. The reason that moment worked so well was because it was so hard to miss but if all they do is throw monster sized scripted events at you, it can lose it's impact or effect IMO.
While I agree with your view, IMO usually when the term "cinematic" is used in a game, it involves a scripted scene and the camera and/or controls being taken away from the player. One of my favorite things about Halo is how the controls are only taken away during cut-scenes, which is acceptable when moving the game forward IMO. There are other issues I take with scripted moments as well, such as when the event is never triggered since you did not pass through a very specific path the developers set in place.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that more FUD moments are cool as long as it's not to the expense of the camera or controls.
This! It was only after several play throughs of the level where Kat got iced did I realize that you could actually see the city getting glassed by battle cruisers in the background.
Jack Scofield
Member
That's just bad visual direction by Bungie. Listen to some of Valve's developer commentaries. They stress the importance of directing a player's gaze towards certain important elements, whether through the use of lighting, color, or something else.
Bungie has no idea how to do this successfully and it shows.
So if Bungie kept all the cut-scenes in the first person perspective, they would suddenly be successful at this?
That's the key difference between the two studios in regards to the Half Life and Halo games IMO. Valve keeps the player's perspective intact while directing them towards a general direction while Bungie pulls back the camera to a more traditional cut-scene. Both have their own merits IMO. Besides, I see that as something different than sprinkling scripted events throughout the playable areas.
Wiggum2007
Junior Member
Man one thing this gen's Halo games have floundered on is the big multi-faction encounters, like Two Betrayals with the player vs. Flood vs. Covies (and even vs. some Sentinels too) and some of those other later levels, and in Halo 2 stuff like the Sentinels vs. Flood vs. Player in Quarantine Zone or the Civil War factions fighting each other.
All your enemies fighting each other like that added a fun dynamic to some of the combat scenarios in those games. I think the closest we got to this on the 360 was Halo 3's last level where a few enemy Sentinels pop up amongst the Flood you are fighting?
That's what I hope to see come back in Halo 4.
All your enemies fighting each other like that added a fun dynamic to some of the combat scenarios in those games. I think the closest we got to this on the 360 was Halo 3's last level where a few enemy Sentinels pop up amongst the Flood you are fighting?
That's what I hope to see come back in Halo 4.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Yeah, I dont get the Halo 3 love (other than encounters) or the Halo 2 hate (other than the ending) at all. Halo 3 was such an underwhelming game.. Dont get me wrong, it was enjoyable, had some gorgeous locations, but it just let me down compared to Halo 2's grand style.
Im with others, I want a more open, more mysterious and at times more grand game. I love Halo 1's sense of new and mystery, I love ODSTs Hubworld and feel, Reach had some cool set pieces (there is still room for improvement there) and 3 had some great encounters. 2 had an amazing story and cutscenes, so honestly I hope Halo 4 can deliver the best from all the games while delivering a brand new experience.
Im with others, I want a more open, more mysterious and at times more grand game. I love Halo 1's sense of new and mystery, I love ODSTs Hubworld and feel, Reach had some cool set pieces (there is still room for improvement there) and 3 had some great encounters. 2 had an amazing story and cutscenes, so honestly I hope Halo 4 can deliver the best from all the games while delivering a brand new experience.
For some reason Halo 3 never clicked with me. Loved Halo 1, enjoyed Halo 2. Could not get myself to finish Halo 3. I just found it a little boring.
Halo 3 sp on hard is amazing, although it's one of those games where sometimes you think "Where did the budget go?"
Story, Visuals, Modelling, Animation...Bungie has since improved a bit, ODST tried to do something interesting with the story, and Reach tried to do something interesting with the animation and modelling.
Unfortunately Bungie was moving at 10 MPH. Reach for me for example, was good but it felt unnecessary. It's completely un-epic in comparison to the material it approaches, the story is barely even there, and the characters are a bunch of take it or leave it.
Have no idea what went on in the MP side all these years though.
Story, Visuals, Modelling, Animation...Bungie has since improved a bit, ODST tried to do something interesting with the story, and Reach tried to do something interesting with the animation and modelling.
Unfortunately Bungie was moving at 10 MPH. Reach for me for example, was good but it felt unnecessary. It's completely un-epic in comparison to the material it approaches, the story is barely even there, and the characters are a bunch of take it or leave it.
Have no idea what went on in the MP side all these years though.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
I don't think Halo's storytelling scale lends itself to an entirely first person perspective to well at all.
The Librarian
Banned
Heh. The encounters (among other small things like locations of The Ark) are precisely why I think Halo 3 didn't underwhelm. Too bad it took until Reach for me to realize what Halo 3 did right.
KidA Seven
Member
My favorite campaign rankings:
Halo CE > ODST > Halo 2 > Reach > Halo 3
Halo CE > ODST > Halo 2 > Reach > Halo 3
Game2Death
Banned
Yeah, personally I agree. Halo 3 >>>>>> Reach. Reach is my least favorite in the entire series.
(Besides Halo Wars)
Kibbles
Member
I thought Halo 3 had a lot of epic moments, and while I didn't always agree with the story beats, I thought the campaign overall was pretty great.
The encounter design in 3 was definitely my favorite, although a lot of encounters in 2 were also really well done. I liked both better than the encounter design and campaign overall in Reach.
IMO Halo 2 excelled with the story and opened up the universe in some much needed ways, but the actual level designs were a step back from CE. They were much more linear and down-scaled compared to CE, and I would have traded some graphical pizazz for more open levels. Half the Arbiter levels weren't all that fun IMO and the Brutes were a step back from the Elites. I've played through every Halo multiple times, but could only stomach one legendary play through of Halo 2.
Halo CE > Halo Reach > Halo 3 > ODST > Halo 2
Halo CE > Halo Reach > Halo 3 > ODST > Halo 2
The Elite
BOSS
I have to agree with your assessment. The level design really killed Halo 2 but I loved what they did with the story and the universe.
i agree, for the most part, but halo 2 did have some very memorable levels despite being more linear. while halo 2 lost the awesome exploration and open vehicle spaces, for the most part, the interior level design was among the best in the series IMO. i loved cairo station, the arbiter, gravemind, and regret, to name a few.
Something Wicked
Member
While without having a very quick lateral movement option or other unique control mechanisms that allow a player to dodge attacks (like ball-mode in Metroid Prime), FPS-es in general are limited for boss designs. However, I do agree that, even with the Halo control scheme, fun and challenging bosses are possible, particularly ones better than the previous games.
For example, for Halo 3, I would have done this:
-Guilty Spark becomes surrounded by other sentinels
- the sentinels fire their beams in changing patterns, and the player must weave through such beams- and perhaps have to jump or duck when a few sentinels move from the "cluster" and around the platform
-the player must pick off a few sentinels with the BR/Carbine/dropped sentinels beams to momentarily reveal GS
-the player then must quickly hide behind a pillar in the opposite direction of GS, as GS does some quick spinning insta-death laser attack, pauses for a cooldown- providing the player the ability to attack of with the Splazer/or other weapons if Splazer is used up (the Splazer would take GS down quicker and Cortana would advise beforehand to not waste it on the sentinels)
-the sentinels re-surround GS and rinse and repeat, in which the number of sentinels continues to decrease each time, yet the sentinel beam pattern changes become faster, GS changes direction (making the player hide on different sides of pillars) and the cooldown time of GS becomes shorter (perhaps forcing the player to pre-charge the Splazer, as GS is attacking)
-if one really wanted to up the challenge, GS's beam would take eventually take out platform pieces, forcing the player to jump over pits of death and to be faster at defeating GS
After GS, while in the hallway approaching the doorway out of the facility I would have had a Gravemind fight as well:
-A Flood "blob" (essentially Gravemind) blocks one way and torn down ceiling pieces block the other way- the player becomes boxed in
-to take out the blob, the player must shoot different bulbs on the blob or on tentacles coming from the blob itself or tentacles coming out of the walls/ceiling/floor
-with enough bulbs destroyed, orifices open and one has to throw grenades in them to damage GM (a throwback to CE's reactor room)
-after a grenade hit or two, the orifices close and the bulbs appear, while the player must dodge/jump/duck the tentacles swipe coming from multiple locations in the "box"
-perhaps tentacles could actually grab players and one would have to shoot the tentacle for it to release one's self or other player
- also, other flood forms would be shooting out of the blob or cracks in the walls/ceiling and maybe the player must dodge debris coming from the ceiling, as GM shakes the facility
-rinse and repeat, the bulb shooting and grenade tossing, as more and more tentacles appear before the Flood blob is momentarily destroyed allowing the player to escape
Just things like in the above would make the end of such games more challenging, more epic, and thus ultimately more satisfying in my opinion.