Watching a homophobe kill his career on facebook

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In what sense is homosexuality (or homosexual acts) wrong? It is the descision of two consenting adults that does not harm the people involved or anyone else. To say it is 'wrong' would be to fundementally misunderstand actions and what could colloquially be considered 'wrong'.
Why do you ask me that? I prefer a discussion where everyone is participating. What bugged me about Kaijima's post is that he's essentially shutting down any counter opinions by using the ignorance card and for using examples that ooze ignorance himself (those who think differently are uneducated, insecure, are close-minded, etc), using a whole paragraph to basically insult everyone who thinks differently than him. Whether he is right or wrong and whether I agree with him or not, it doesn't matter. It's a way to make yourself seem more right: a way to discuss for insecure people. He is a hypocrite.

And your post? Because I spoke out neutrally, you assumed I am a supporter of condemning homosexuality (I never confirmed nor denied this) and assumed that I can answer that question for you. Not the first time it happened in this thread. But I still won't put a disclaimer in every post I make, because I think that's simply ridiculous. "Note that I'm not saying BLA BLA BLA because I fear people might assume they think I'm actually choosing a side that they won't like"
 
How dare people hold others accountable for their opinions?
accountable to whom? the internet? I mean, if this were a socially/culturally/politically important person I could see the need to call it out, but this guy is basically billy from the next house down. who gives a fuck what he says outside of his social/employment circle?
 
This is exactly right (Except defining sin is not bigotry). As long as people realize that this debate is simply stating seperate opinions or at worst hurling insults, then there's no issue.

I'd consider it bigotry when the word "WRONG" is involved (and the screencap that OP posted shows just that). Let's face it, the word "wrong" has unpleasant connotation to it. It implies that it's not something that one is meant to do. People don't like when others, especially those who they have no direct relations to, tell them that their life or how they live their life is wrong. By saying it, you basically look down on those who are different to you and tell them outright via social networking tools that "Your life is wrong (or a sin in this case)". It is an opinion but it's not an opinion that will be taken lightly. Mind your own business and don't stick your nose in other people's sexuality and others will mind their own business too.

Kajima said:
I think there may be a connection there however.For instance; people who argue that childlessness is "wrong" even immoral, tend to be too concerned with how others live their life, and disturbed, unsettled, by the fact that another couple is not behaving in a normative fashion. People are insecure things. Sadly, when many see someone behaving in a way that is not, to them, normative, their first reaction is not to wonder "what new behavior am I unaware of" but to think "something is WRONG with them, nobody who behaves correctly would do that." (This in itself seems as if it can be a matter of education. It is possible for someone to learn that they cannot judge other behaviors that easily, and this is part of being open minded.)

This is so spot on and yet it mystifies me. I never understand why people don't mind their own business instead of sticking their nose in other people's life, wanting other people's life to be similar to their own. I don't think it's because their looking for validation to their own way of life because let's face it, heterosexuality is the majority at this point in life. So I really don't understand why anyone will want to control how others behave in their life when it doesn't even affect or harm them in any way.
 
This is so spot on and yet it mystifies me. I never understand why people don't mind their own business instead of sticking their nose in other people's life, wanting their life to be similar to their own. I don't think it's because their looking for validation to their own lifestyle because let's face it, heterosexuality is the majority at this point in life. So I really don't understand why anyone will want to control how others behave in their life when it doesn't even affect or harm them in any way.
Well, I for one don't understand why people think that's an excellent post. If people can't solve a math problem and I know they give the wrong answers, I'm not sticking my nose into their lives and I can still accept that's how they are. I'm not meddling business, not validating myself, yet I can still have an opinion of them doing something wrong.

We shouldn't use terminology that over justify our own arguments. No one needs it, therefor I'm against such thinking. Just putting negative labels on people who think differently (in this case: meddlers looking to validate their own lives) without any form of logic is an example of that.
 
accountable to whom? the internet? I mean, if this were a socially/culturally/politically important person I could see the need to call it out, but this guy is basically billy from the next house down. who gives a fuck what he says outside of his social/employment circle?

Ah yes, so the only people who we should hold accountable are famous people. Gotcha!
 
Well, I for one don't understand why people think that's an excellent post. If people can't solve a math problem and I know they give the wrong answers, I'm not sticking my nose into their lives and I can still accept that's how they are. I'm not meddling business, not validating myself, yet I can still have an opinion of them doing something wrong.

You're comparing something that has a definite answer (a math equation) to something which definitely has no right or wrong answer (sexuality). The former, anyone will be more than happy to be given the right answer. The later, just get ready for your response because there will be those who will not like it that you just stick your nose where it doesn't belong.

Opinion is a dime a dozen and everyone got one.
 
I'd consider it bigotry when the word "WRONG" is involved. Let's face it, the word "wrong" has unpleasant connotation to it. It implies that it's not something that one is meant to do. People don't like when others, especially those who they have no direct relations to, tell them that their life or how they live their life is wrong. By saying it, you basically look down on those who are different to you and tell them outright via social networking tools that "Your life is wrong (or a sin in this case)". It is an opinion but it's not an opinion that will be taken lightly. Mind your own business and don't stick your nose in other people's sexuality and others will mind their own business too.
That would make everyone who thinks something is wrong a bigot and seems extremist to me. It also assumes that everything that can be done is fine. I agree about ones minding their own business.

Defining wrong in a universal way is always a slippery slope though. Just about the only way to do it is by legal standard.
 
I've come to realize that, at least for myself, tolerance towards every human being, no matter the ethnicity, age, religious belief, hair colour, wealth, physical disability, anything (by choice or not by choice) is the more important issue, and what we should really be fighting for. I don't even know if that makes me a christian anymore, don't really care. What is a label worth anyways? Just something else for people to prejudge you with?
You however just indirectly explained in your post why religion shouldn't be tolerated though. It, for the most part, breeds more intolerance then any other factor, especially for young children who don't know any better.

If I have a christian who (apparently against the core principles of their belief) tolerates everyone on my right and an athiest who hates blacks on my left, i'm not going to ignore the latter and chastise the former for not completely following through 100% on their belief and calling all gays "sinners".
That's fine and dandy but not relevant at all to this thread. We don't have that situation presented in this thread, but rather a self-proclaimed christian that has bigoted views on gays and refuses any dissension to his viewpoints. That is what the arguments in this thread are about. For the most part, his religious viewpoints are shaping his beliefs and that is the problem being highlighted.
 
You're comparing something that has a definite answer (a math equation) to something which definitely has no right or wrong answer. The former, anyone will be more than happy to be given the right answer. The later, just get ready for your response because there will be those who will not like it that you just stick your nose where it doesn't belong.
Change the example to a discussion about whether peanut butter is tasty or not. "Sticking your nose where it doesn't belong" is like the most useless thing you can say, way to keep everyone ignorant. I don't like how you think, so stop thinking! With that logic, even heterosexuals can't have an opinion of homosexual relationships (no positive ones either!). Do you really think the way you think is the way to change the world for the better? I personally don't think so.
 
It's a shame some people conflate believing that an act is morally wrong with hating the people that perpetrate said acts or bashing said people.
 
You however just indirectly explained in your post why religion shouldn't be tolerated though. It, for the most part, breeds more intolerance then any other factor, especially for young children who don't know any better.


That's fine and dandy but not relevant at all to this thread. We don't have that situation presented in this thread, but rather a self-proclaimed christian that has bigoted views on gays and refuses any dissension to his viewpoints. That is what the arguments in this thread are about. For the most part, his religious viewpoints are shaping his beliefs and that is the problem being highlighted.

Are you talking to yourself on purpose?
qXFgz.jpg
 
Well, what am I, random person who has zero interaction with this individual, supposed to do to hold him accountable? Contact potential employers? Post something on his facebook wall?

Ah, you don't seem to understand the term/comment. Either that, or you are being willfully obtuse.
 
This is so spot on and yet it mystifies me. I never understand why people don't mind their own business instead of sticking their nose in other people's life, wanting other people's life to be similar to their own. I don't think it's because their looking for validation to their own way of life because let's face it, heterosexuality is the majority at this point in life. So I really don't understand why anyone will want to control how others behave in their life when it doesn't even affect or harm them in any way.

I suppose it seems less likely that it's simply a desire for validation. Though, you can't underestimate the power of insecurity. We have christians buying into the "war on christianity" left and right - that 90% majority under assault by a minority.

Remember too, that regardless of how many normative peers surround one's self, if one feels bad already for different reasons, any reminder no matter how small can cause an outburst. For example, with the "childfree" arguments, a common Freudian slip is for the critic of the childless couple to say "sure having children is a challenge and removes your freedom as an adult but children are a necessary sacrifice."

I've seen this line pop out when the childless folk are not the ones playing up the "freedom" of not having children.

Also, people who seem to go against a majority may seem flippant to members of the norm - as if they're flouting their uniqueness. Look how popular it is to negatively characterize hipsters, or members of a subculture like hippies. The "you are not a special unique snowflake" like is very popular, including with people who think they're smarter than the average bear.


It's a shame some people conflate believing that an act is morally wrong with hating the people that perpetrate said acts or bashing said people.

The problem with bigotry over intrinsic characteristics, like race, gender, or sexual orientation, is that it's difficult to justify "loving the sinner but hating the sin". "I think homosexuality is morally wrong, but I won't bash gays" is revealed as truly nonsensical and not a statement of reasonable compromise, if one replaces "homosexual" with "black" or "female". The difference is that being gay has been defined as merely a behavior, ye olde "being homosexual is a choice" line, in western culture for a long time. We're in the middle of a transition. Homosexuality is gradually being recontextualized from being an 'act' to a 'state of being'. You do not act gay, you are gay. You do not act straight, you are straight. Thus, being gay (or straight) is removed from the realm of deciding whether or not it's "right".

Thus, a person trying to argue that gay = wrong, or gay = immoral, may still run into trouble even if they believe they're trying to be reasonable by telling themselves "I should not hate this person who is wrong".

Interestingly though, the thought process of traditional bigotry can betray the way some ideas become conflated in a bigoted person. White supremacists often believe that "lesser races" aren't just physically different, but that they ARE immoral. Intrinsically immoral. Their race actually does make them "wrong"!

All this seems to be a major reason why there is such an (inevitably losing) fight against "the spread of The Gay". People who can't cope with the idea of homosexuality (for whatever reason) see it being elevated above subjective concepts. It is entering the realm of biology and objectivity. Removing this thing they don't understand, or in some cases fear or are offended by, from the list of things they can disapprove of.

Unfortunately, the cat is out of the mimetic bag. The Gay has become understood rationally, and the rational framework will keep on trucking even if some people remain uncomfortable, or believe it's a threat to other frameworks that they require remain unchanged in order for their lives to have structure. Such as religious people who can't accept that they might be asked to reinterpret their religion. Funny thing that, by the way. Christians call themselves "Christ-ian" and not "Biblican", as that Jesus guy seems to be the most important part of that old book. But Jesus never did say anything about The Gay. It was all those other lines of text, many of which were written by people who had nothing to do with Jesus...
 
I can understand where you are coming from. My viewpoints have also changed as I got older...and the distinction between interacting with people of all races, religions, sexes, sexual orientations and other things versus reading discussions about the above things on gaf helped shape how im starting to feel about it: Religion, for the most part, is a pretty petty thing to argue about, in my opinion. I don't think it matters much if you think there is one guy in the sky, 10 of em, or none.

I've come to realize that, at least for myself, tolerance towards every human being, no matter the ethnicity, age, religious belief, hair colour, wealth, physical disability, anything (by choice or not by choice) is the more important issue, and what we should really be fighting for. I don't even know if that makes me a christian anymore, don't really care. What is a label worth anyways? Just something else for people to prejudge you with?

If I have a christian who (apparently against the core principles of their belief) tolerates everyone on my right and an athiest who hates blacks on my left, i'm not going to ignore the latter and chastise the former for not completely following through 100% on their belief and calling all gays "sinners".

For sure. I don't necessarily have any beliefs now other than that we will be happiest if we can all treat each other as our beloved friends and equals. This, and working to cooperate and create a harmonious and successful society someday. Also without casting judgement on someone else's lifestyles or choices that do not harm anyone at all and has no bearing on whether or not the person in question is any more of a "worse" or "doomed" person. Their lifestyle and interests should be recognized as something that is as valid as any others person's, in my opinion.

That's in a perfect world though, like hell something that hopeful could happen, but it is something I think we should all aspire to. :)


When I started to feel like I was losing my faith, It's incredibly confusing when you grew up with a religion that closely. It may have been conditioning, or simply what I had been exposed to a lot of as a child. I'd have really confusing moments too. I once went to a Benny Hinn "concert" as a child. I now think this guy is a total sham, but back then when I was in the audience, he told us to lift our hands, and if we felt this tingling electrifying sensation, we are saved. Well, I kid you not, I FELT it. A tingling and electrifying sensation running in both my hands. And being the 12 yo I was, not going to lie, it was wonderful being told that I am loved by god and that no matter the challenges and mistakes I make, he loves me and he sent his only son to die for me. You know?
As my 19 year old self now, all I can think about is "WHAT THE HECK WAS THAT?"

There MUST be an explanation. They shoot off volts of electricity into the audience or something? It's bewildering. Then there's the people who stood around me in the audience that would fall back and spazz out.

Another thing that puzzles me is my mother, she speaks in what you call "tongues". She also tells me she had a religious experience and sense of peace when she said Jesus came to her during the time she had cancer and smiled at her, and after that moment, she tells me she felt nothing but grace and healing and since then she's been a devout Christian. I could maybe theorize maybe that part of her vision could be anything, even a hallucination from being ill, but the fact that I could hear her speak tongues always fascinated me. I asked her and she tells me that it came to her during another religious moment in deep prayer worship, it's not something she memorized, it just came to her, and she spoke it. Whether or not my mom is lying about this, I can't know. As her daughter, I honestly believe this is what she believes and has no reason to lie about it to me. I entertain it being another explanation though than what she experienced, perhaps something more scientifically based. But yea, I mention all this because these were big factors in me believing there was actually a strong spiritual presence that existed in our world. I am actually quite spiritual still, but in a more "nature" kind of way.


Sorry again about the ramblings, I am hoping people might find my experiences or posts somewhat interesting because I myself am very interested in this subject. I have also been up for over 24 hours...
 
That would make everyone who thinks something is wrong a bigot and seems extremist to me. It also assumes that everything that can be done is fine. I agree about ones minding their own business.

Not in that kind of way. But when used in the context of someone else's life and how it is being equated to wrong, then yeah, I'd say the person is prejudiced about that other person's life. I'd say, for example, many GAF-fers are prejudiced about MLP fans. For something that does not affect them, some of us chose to mock those who like it. Ditto with anime and other stuff. Why do we care so much about what people like? When something that does not affect you and YET you chose to partake in having a say about that thing, then you just basically chose to involve yourself in someone else's business/life.

Soneet said:
Change the example to a discussion about whether peanut butter is tasty or not. "Sticking your nose where it doesn't belong" is like the most useless thing you can say, way to keep everyone ignorant. I don't like how you think, so stop thinking! With that logic, even heterosexuals can't have an opinion of homosexual relationships (no positive ones either!). Do you really think the way you think is the way to change the world for the better? I personally don't think so.

If you say something that does not have a definite answer and you basically say someone else's POV on that is wrong, then yeah, expect a verbal argument coming from them. I'm not saying, don't think or say anything about them. But expect a response like the guy in the OP has got because you just told another person that how they live their life is wrong.
 
I think it's fair to call into question the point of a thread on NeoGAF about the Facebook ramblings of some idiot film student.

People say stupid things on Facebook.

My initial post was responding to a guy that said 'how dare he have an opinion'

This defense is laughable. Do you guys know the guy? Have you shared equally hateful language on the Internet somewhere else? Should we stop discussing videos and the actions of other people on NeoGAF, unless they are famous of course?
 
I'm always bemused by the people that say: "So what if what he/she says is cruel or ignorant? They're entitled to their opinion." All opinions are not equal, some are just morally and logically indefensible, and naturally invite derision.
 
I think it's fair to call into question the point of a thread on NeoGAF about the Facebook ramblings of some idiot film student.

People say stupid things on Facebook.
^^^
Uh, the duscussion we are having. His name being associated with bigotry by a larger pool of people.

What exactly is your point? Are you just arguing for the sake of it?
Well, I don't really feel like i'm arguing (discussing, yes), but my point is pretty simple, I think: I don't even remember this guys name, so aside from having a momentary laugh at his stupidity and ignorance, I'm not really holding him accountable at all for his actions. His classmates certainly are.
 
This defense is laughable.

I'm not defending the guy in the OP. i think he's an idiot. I just don't think that every time someone disagrees with a random person on the internet we need to have a thread about it.

Do you guys know the guy?

Nope.

Have you shared equally hateful language on the Internet somewhere else?

Nope. I don't share the film student's opinions on homosexuality.

Should we stop discussing videos and the actions of other people on NeoGAF, unless they are famous of course?

It's certainly a lot more interesting if it involves someone famous.
 
Threi.jpg


He uses his alt to have an argument with himself. How sad is that? Judging by who he's responded to I think I can guess who his alt is. Becha he's done with this thread.

Oh well. Now I have a new screen capture to add to my list of screen captures of people arguing with their alts.
 
I'm always bemused by the people that say: "So what if what he/she says is cruel or ignorant? They're entitled to their opinion." All opinions are not equal, some are just morally and logically indefensible, and naturally invite derision.

And of course there's the inevitable followup of, "You're bigoted against their bigotry, bigot!"
 
If you say something that does not have a definite answer and you basically say someone else's POV on that is wrong, then yeah, expect a verbal argument coming from them. I'm not saying, don't think or say anything about them. But expect a response like the guy in the OP has got because you just told another person that how they live their life is wrong.
Alright, since close-enough examples don't seem to work, how about someone telling that eating carbs is unhealthy. Are you saying that's the same as telling people how to live their lives, being meddling, with a fact that's hard to prove or disprove and many people will argue back? Because that's how I feel about the responses 'ignorant' and 'meddling'. Saying stuff like that is just as meaningless as the basis for thinking that homosexuality is morally wrong. It's just a sign of emotional frustration, not the result of a well thought-out opinion.
 
Threi.jpg


He uses his alt to have an argument with himself. How sad is that. Wonder who his alt is. My guess is Kimmay!. Becha he's done with this thread. At least in the form of Threi.

Oh well. Now I have a new screen capture to add to my list of screen captures of people arguing with their alts.
lol; I remember some guy on the Gaming side do this and try to play it off as a joke.

edit: or was it OT? Tell me you have this.
 
I think it's fair to call into question the point of a thread on NeoGAF about the Facebook ramblings of some idiot film student.

People say stupid things on Facebook.

I thought the OP knew the guy. I figured this is another one of those threads.
 
Threi exposed?!? (More likely he's exposing us, lol)

One or the other

Threi.jpg


He uses his alt to have an argument with himself. How sad is that. Judging by who he's responded to I think I can guess who his alt is. Becha he's done with this thread.

Oh well. Now I have a new screen capture to add to my list of screen captures of people arguing with their alts.

this is actually extremely amusing :P
 
I'm always bemused by the people that say: "So what if what he/she says is cruel or ignorant? They're entitled to their opinion." All opinions are not equal, some are just morally and logically indefensible, and naturally invite derision.
All individual opinions are equal though. They can't help but to be

I would grant that a presidential candidate or a preacher saying something mean or hateful carries more weight since they set their opinion on the premise of being accepted by a group, but there is no way to determine what moral code a particular individual is to follow except against the standard of your own moral guidelines.
 
^^^

Well, I don't really feel like i'm arguing (discussing, yes), but my point is pretty simple, I think: I don't even remember this guys name, so aside from having a momentary laugh at his stupidity and ignorance, I'm not really holding him accountable at all for his actions. His classmates certainly are.

Yes. They are. Exactly. And one of the ways they are doing it is by spreading his filth around the Internet. Hence why the, how dare he have an opinion guy, is ridiculous.

This is how he is being held accountable for his comments. Every action has some sort of reaction. But but but it's just his opinion man! How dare he have it!
 
Threi.jpg


He uses his alt to have an argument with himself. How sad is that. Judging by who he's responded to I think I can guess who his alt is. Becha he's done with this thread.

Oh well. Now I have a new screen capture to add to my list of screen captures of people arguing with their alts.



Eh, no I am not him and I insist! I really would like my comments to be my own and not having people thinking I am someone else.
 
CHEEZMO™;34639381 said:
I need to see these.

Only have 3.. I'll post them in the Pics that make you laugh thread as not to derail this one.

Eh, no I am not him and I insist! I really would like my comments to be my own and not having people thinking I am someone else.

ya, I took that part out. Dumb to point fingers when I'm not 100% sure. Sorry about that.
 
suggesting that my hypothetical alt is Kimmay is suggesting that there is a third party in the discussion. Kimmay was not taking the anti-religious stance, but rather merely expressing his opinion on how his viewpoints on religion changed with age, and coming to terms with it.

at least follow the thread mangs.
 
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