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[Arnie]

Any notion of Halo 4 releasing in November needs to be killed right now. That may be how the industry worked in 2004, but not in 2012. Call of Duty is king, and like anybody who isn't king, Halo must kneel in respectful observance and accept the King's judgement.

September release folks. But hey, depending on how good Halo 4 is, compared to how flat the Call of Duty series continues to feel, a November release may be in contention for Halo 5. In 2015. A man can dream.

Just to clarify though, I don't really give a fuck what month it releases. What month it's revealed is of more importance. February now seems a lock.

 

[xHAASx]

I really don't know where you are going with this xHAASx.

Simply put, it is my distinctive notion that Halo has fallen, as in "oh, how the mighty have fallen."

Nevertheless, I'd be delighted to get pleasantly shocked by 343.

 

[InvincibleAgent]

That is true, however im pretty sure when 343 says holiday, it really means holiday season.

November 9 to 15, Pick your date.

So I get to play it for 5-11 days before RE6 comes out?

 

[DarkChild]

Any notion of Halo 4 releasing in November needs to be killed right now. That may be how the industry worked in 2004, but not in 2012. Call of Duty is king, and like anybody who isn't king, Halo must kneel in respectful observance and accept the King's judgement.

September release folks. But hey, depending on how good Halo 4 is, compared to how flat the Call of Duty series continues to feel, a November release may be in contention for Halo 5. In 2015. A man can dream.

Just to clarify though, I don't really give a fuck what month it releases. What month it's revealed is of more importance. February now seems a lock.

September and they haven't showed anything, its weird. With Reach, game was already showed at this time of year.

 

[Trey]

Any notion of Halo 4 releasing in November needs to be killed right now. That may be how the industry worked in 2004, but not in 2012. Call of Duty is king, and like anybody who isn't king, Halo must kneel in respectful observance and accept the King's judgement.

Skyrim, AssRev, UMvC3, HCEA, and SR3 came out the week after MW3. If memory serves.

 

[The Librarian]

Simply put, it is my distinctive notion that Halo has fallen, as in "oh, how the mighty have fallen."

Nevertheless, I'd be delighted to get pleasantly shocked by 343.

It is your special notion? What?

So you're saying Halo is dying because Bungie left Halo, yet you haven't seen Halo 4 yet?

 

[Domino Theory]

Had a dream that I was invited to 343 and accidently spied on a playtest session of Halo 4 Firefight so I know what Halo 4 looks like.

 

[xHAASx]

It is your special notion? What?

So you're saying Halo is dying because Bungie left Halo, yet you haven't seen Halo 4 yet?

As stated, 343 can shock, but I'm not hopeful of much.

 

[Conor 419]

Fuck it, I'll take it. It's more than we've got from 343i in 6 months.

What's it look like?

 

[S1kkZ]

Had a dream that I was invited to 343 and accidently spied on a playtest session of Halo 4 Firefight so I know what Halo 4 looks like.

a dream huh?

 

[S1kkZ]

Skyrim, AssRev, UMvC3, HCEA, and SR3 came out the week after MW3. If memory serves.

none of that is an fps with a heavy multiplayer component.

 

[xHAASx]

Skyrim, AssRev, UMvC3, HCEA, and SR3 came out the week after MW3. If memory serves.

Now, wasn't that witless?

 

[TheOddOne]

As stated, 343 can shock, but I'm not hopeful of much.

Ok, I'll play along.

So Halo died when Bungie stopped making them. Check.
Halo has fallen to to wayside of other games. Check.
343 Industries will not do justice to Halo. Check.

I guess your trying to tell us you don't really care about Halo anymore?

Ok, but we do. Some might say it's bordeline trolling, but I'll give you the benifit of the doubt.

 

[higherARC05]

As a high-quality and chart-topping franchise.

 

[Trey]

Now, wasn't that witless?

I wouldn't know, I didn't check the dates.

 

[xHAASx]

I'd say mainstream popularity of Halo died with ODST, it was a grievous mistake to fully price it, especially when it was releasing so closely to MW2.

I think there's a very good shot of Halo 4 restoring a lot of HP to the series though, my reasoning being.

+ Three Years development time
+ New Team, new Ideas.
+ Another heavily modified engine, against what will presumably be the same CoD engine.


Also lot of CoD players really disliked MW3, I think this is the beginning of the series getting truly tired, even with the fan-base. Halo 4 can really take advantage of this and really make the next CoD look bad.

I'm of the view that Black Ops 2 can shatter every sales record, taking into account the popularity of Black Ops.

 

[Arnie]

September and they haven't showed anything, its weird. With Reach, game was already showed at this time of year.

It's certainly a different approach, and I won't know if it's my preferred one until the marketing campaign fully kicks in. We're still around 6 months from launch, which is by all accounts ample time to market and reveal the game. Let's make this clear right now, although we're all frustrated at the lack of information at this current time, we won't give two shits come the actual reveal.

The thing could be revealed tomorrow and we wouldn't give this whole thing a second thought.

Skyrim, AssRev, UMvC3, HCEA, and SR3 came out the week after MW3. If memory serves.

All of which aren't direct competition to Call of Duty. Apart from HCEA, which sold poorly, strengthening my argument.

 

[Monumental]

What a large majority of you don't realize is that the reason Microsoft places it's personal biggest title in September/October is for the benefit of ALL their major 3rd party supporters.

They don't want first party sales to cannibalize 3rd party software or vice-versa. This is another reason for why Microsoft has the best 3rd party relations amongst the platform holders.

If Microsoft really wanted they could launch Halo in November like they used to and get bigger launch window sales but that will cannibalize the already jam packed season. And it will also to be the overall detriment of first party software because it won't get it's own window to shine. September/October are much better months for that reason.

 

[xHAASx]

Ok, I'll play along.

So Halo died when Bungie stopped making them. Check.
Halo has fallen to to wayside of other games. Check.
343 Industries will not do justice to Halo. Check.

I guess your trying to tell us you don't really care about Halo anymore?

Ok.

My expectations are skimpy, that is all.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Gears 3 marketing pegged it as a "holiday" release and it came out in September.

That being the only example I can think of being a game labeled "holiday", and coming out in September.

I will assume the game is coming in November, and will be pleasantly surprised if it comes earlier.

I would wager any "AAA" game released around the time MW3 launched would be direct competition, of which BF3 and Skyrim fit the bill, and which both did rather well for themselves while the king held its throne. Which flies in the face of your "leave November to CoD" point, the same point which you retracted later in your post.

H:CEA is a remake of a ten year old game without the cherished multipalyer component, and with almost NO promotional material. Of course its sales were modest.

Assassins Creed has only come out the week after COD for the past few years and has sold really well.

 

[Trey]

All of which aren't direct competition to Call of Duty. Apart from HCEA, which sold poorly, strengthening my argument.

I would wager any "AAA" game released around the time MW3 launched would be direct competition, of which BF3 and Skyrim fit the bill, and which both did rather well for themselves while the "king" held its throne. Which flies in the face of your "leave November to CoD" point, the same point which you retracted later in your post.

H:CEA is a remake of a ten year old game without the cherished multipalyer component, and with almost NO promotional material. Of course its sales were modest.

 

[xHAASx]

I would wager any "AAA" game released around the time MW3 launched would be direct competition, of which BF3 and Skyrim fit the bill, and which both did rather well for themselves while the king held its throne. Which flies in the face of your "leave November to CoD" point, the same point which you retracted later in your post.

H:CEA is a remake of a ten year old game without the cherished multipalyer component, and with almost NO promotional material. Of course its sales were modest.

How did Reach fare against Black Ops?

 

[Satchel]

I don't know if it's that Halo has fallen, but more that Call of Duty has risen.

Remember, ODST while awesome, was essentially an add on, and Reach didn't give us control of Master Chief, so in realisty, it was never going to be the seller Halo 3 was.

If Halo 4 only sells around what 3 sold, then we may have something to talk about, because the userbase has grown massively since then (mostly through Kinect focused consumers in all fairness), but I'd still be pretty disappointed if Halo 4 didn't outsell Halo 3 pretty handily.

It won't out do Black Ops 2 (unfortunately), but I'd expect it to outpace Halo 3.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Because they weren't expecting it.
People were expecting Halo 2 to be the Chief fighting the Covenant on Earth.
It was mis-managed, people felt the game was a bait & switch so that blowback blew on to the Arbiter too.

Also, the introductory Arbiter scene, in the mausoleum is (awesome,) very long and the impression I get is that a lot of people non-interested in the Universe other than the Chief, didn't really care, so allowed themselves no connection to the character.

That & people generally prefer to be Human characters. Us vs them mentality.

See i've always thought that this must have been bungies thinking and that's why they changed halo 3 so much. I'm curious how they came to this conclusion though. Halo 2 sold better than the first and reviewed really well. Halo 3 also sold really well off the back of halo 2.

I don't think the backlash was as big as they thought.

I don't know if it's that Halo has fallen, but more that Call of Duty has risen.

Remember, ODST while awesome, was essentially an add on, and Reach didn't give us control of Master Chief, so in realisty, it was never going to be the seller Halo 3 was.

If Halo 4 only sells around what 3 sold, then we may have something to talk about, because the userbase has grown massively since then (mostly through Kinect focused consumers in all fairness), but I'd still be pretty disappointed if Halo 4 didn't outsell Halo 3 pretty handily.

It won't out do Black Ops 2 (unfortunately), but I'd expect it to outpace Halo 3.

That won't happen. The halo brand has taken a hit and halo 3 had an incredible amount of hype around it. Master chief will have been gone for like 6 years by the time halo 4 comes out, will he still be relevant then? I think halo 4 will sell a bit worse than halo 3 but will reinvigorate the franchise after reach made it drop off a cliff somewhat.

 

[Hey You]

H:CEA is a remake of a ten year old game without the cherished multipalyer component, and with almost NO promotional material. Of course its sales were modest.

Yep, MS wasn't trying to light up the sales charts. They knew they wouldn't make millions on the project.

 

[The Librarian]

As stated, 343 can shock, but I'm not hopeful of much.

I don't get it. 343 likely can't deliver because they likely can't deliver?

 

[xHAASx]

I don't know if it's that Halo has fallen, but more that Call of Duty has risen.

Remember, ODST while awesome, was essentially an add on, and Reach didn't give us control of Master Chief, so in realisty, it was never going to be the seller Halo 3 was.

If Halo 4 only sells around what 3 sold, then we may have something to talk about, because the userbase has grown massively since then (mostly through Kinect focused consumers in all fairness), but I'd still be pretty disappointed if Halo 4 didn't outsell Halo 3 pretty handily.

It won't out do Black Ops 2 (unfortunately), but I'd expect it to outpace Halo 3.

I was always of the opinion that it was the series' multiplayer, and not the Chief, that was the most prominent aspect of Halo's prosperity throughout the years.

 

[TheOddOne]

My expectations are skimpy, that is all.

What do you mean by "skimpy"? I don't get it.

Because it's being made by another studio means you have lower expectations maby?

 

[xHAASx]

I don't get it. 343 likely can't deliver because they likely can't deliver?

 

[Conor 419]

By the way, are we going to expect Halo 5 to have a 3 year development time, or two?

Because if the answer's two then fuck.

 

[AdventureRacing]

I was always of the opinion that it was the series' multiplayer, and not the Chief, that was the most prominent aspect of Halo's prosperity throughout the years.

I strongly disagree with this. Look at the massive advertising campaigns for both halo 2 and 3, there is a reason that they were so heavily focused on the chief.

By the way, are we going to expect Halo 5 to have a 3 year development time, or two?

Because if the answer's two then fuck.

It's going to be a next gen game. There is no chance that it will only be in development for 2 years.

 

[Trey]

How did Reach fare against Black Ops?

Reach's sales were disappointing if you wanted it to defeat CoD. Otherwise it sold about as much as Halo 3 did.

No one is disputing that Halo has fallen off as the top seller which sends other games running. Even the fanbase itself is rather splintered. Halo is a shadow of its former self saleswise and in the minds of many gamers. But if last November was any indication, publishers didn't feel the need to run from MW3.

The only reason H4 won't step on CoD's toes come November is because MS won't want to pit the two against one another. It's in their best interest to stagger the releases. It's not an either/or competition between Halo and CoD.

 

[Conor 419]

Also, what do we think will happen if say, Halo 4 scores 81 (exactly) on Metacritic?

Is that it for you guys? Because I have to ask myself whether it'll really be worth investing in the next Xbox if Halo is considered 'dead'.

- Edit - And guys, Halo will never defeat CoD in sales, it's on a fifth of the platforms.

 

[789shadow]

Halo 4 will not come out this year. It's too close to the release of the next Xbox. Can you imagine if Halo 4 was a launch title?

 

[Arnie]

I would wager any "AAA" game released around the time MW3 launched would be direct competition, of which BF3 and Skyrim fit the bill, and which both did rather well for themselves while the king held its throne. Which flies in the face of your "leave November to CoD" point, the same point which you retracted later in your post.

No, just no. You've missed the point entirely. As someone said, your reply was witless, and here's why:

Microsoft and Activision are having recreational sex. The product of that sex is a mutually beneficial arrangement in which all Call of Duty marketing promotes the Xbox 360 version, including all DLC. By releasing Halo 4 in November, a first person shooter in which multiplayer is a key part of the package, Microsoft are effectively saying no to Activision's advances and opting for masturbation instead.

Not only is this masturbation less enjoyable for Microsoft (ie, fewer sales for Halo in a more competitive window), but Activision will never sleep with them again (No more Xbox 360 affiliation with the industry's number one selling franchise).

Do you understand now? Releasing Halo 4 in November is akin to brushing off the approach of a rabid January Jones for the company of your own wrist.

H:CEA is a remake of a ten year old game without the cherished multipalyer component, and with almost NO promotional material. Of course its sales were modest.

True. But that doesn't conceal the fact that it also released during the same time as Modern Warfare 3. There's a high probability that the factors you mentioned contributed to the games poor sales, there's an even higher probability, correlating with how the game sold, that my argument is the main reason why the game failed to chart as it's pedigree suggested it should.

 

[Trey]

- Edit - And guys, Halo will never defeat CoD in sales, it's on a fifth of the platforms.

Pretty sure we're all just talking about on the 360. Or whichever console they're both on.

 

[Conor 419]

No way, either Halo 4 or the Next Box release this year. Otherwise what'd MS's big holiday title be?

 

[Krev]

Halo 4 will not come out this year. It's too close to the release of the next Xbox. Can you imagine if Halo 4 was a launch title?

Can you imagine if the campaign ends with the mother of all cliffhangers, to be resolved in Halo 5, launch title for Xbox 3?

 

[Conor 419]

Can you imagine if the campaign ends with the mother of all cliffhangers, to be resolved in Halo 5, launch title for Xbox 3?

Nah man, save the cliffhangers for Halo 5. Part of the reason Halo 3 had so much hype was because the cliffhangers Halo 2 ended on were absolutely crazy.

 

[Satchel]

I was always of the opinion that it was the series' multiplayer, and not the Chief, that was the most prominent aspect of Halo's prosperity throughout the years.

The Chief has become almost as iconic as Mario, and basically created the Xbox brand.

You seriously think it's the multiplayer that's the more prominent factor in it's sales?

Yeah no.

 

[Spawnling]

I hope to see that 343 will be doing an Xbox Live Multiplayer Beta test for Halo 4. it seemed to help Bungie in making their past games, perhaps continuing the tradition would be a great idea for the franchise.

Hopefully, 343 will also be revealing some new information. I know many folks over at their home forums are eager for some new information

 

[Trey]

Do you understand now? Releasing Halo 4 in November is akin to brushing off the approach of a rabid January Jones for the company of your own wrist.

I understood an hour ago.

Yep. No way does MS overlap the franchises.

I was merely refuting your point that Halo should "bow down to the king (as all games should)" and leave CoD to its devices in November. Except that two different games held their own, which defeated your point.

You made the implication that Halo as an IP is not strong enough to find success if it's released anywhere near the next CoD. I disagreed.

Halo won't release around CoD, but not because it won't sell if it does so.

True. But that doesn't conceal the fact that it also released during the same time as Modern Warfare 3. There's a high probability that the factors you mentioned contributed to the games poor sales, there's an even higher probability, correlating with how the game sold, that my argument is the main reason why the game failed to chart as it's pedigree suggested it should.

No, it's much more likely that pretty much only the people who follow Halo closely knew it was coming out, and that it didn't have the multiplayer component which is Halo's claim to mainstream fame, were the reasons it sold modestly. Love letter to the fans and all that.

Would the campaign alone of CoD1 sell with NO promotion?

 

[Domino Theory]

That being the only example I can think of being a game labeled "holiday", and coming out in September.

I will assume the game is coming in November, and will be pleasantly surprised if it comes earlier.



Assassins Creed has only come out the week after COD for the past few years and has sold really well.

Fable III was also "Holiday 2010" and came out in October.

 

[The Librarian]

So basically Holiday is September-December.

Yeesh! Why don't they just say, "Second half of 2012."

 

[Steelyuhas]

Halo 4 will not come out this year. It's too close to the release of the next Xbox. Can you imagine if Halo 4 was a launch title?

Yeah I can imagine that it would sell much less copies and make a lot less money as a launch title.

It's coming this year, for the 360. Confirmed numerous times.

Fable III was also "Holiday 2010" and came out in October.

Well now your just making me look like a fool.

 

[Arnie]

You made the implication that Halo as an IP is not strong enough to find success if it's released anywhere near the next CoD. I disagreed.

My entire argument is based on the strength of Call of Duty as an intellectual property, not a deficiency in Halo. It's xHAASx who's wielding that particular method of approach.

And I never implied Halo wouldn't 'sell'. Halo will always 'sell'. Will Halo 4 sell what it would if it released in September, should it release just weeks after Call of Duty? No. It won't.

Is November as a month integral enough to success to warrant this release date. No. It isn't.

No, it's much more likely that pretty much only the people who follow Halo closely knew it was coming out, and that it didn't have the multiplayer component which is Halo's claim to mainstream fame, were the reasons it sold modestly. Love letter to the fans and all that.

Would the campaign alone of CoD1 sell with NO promotion?

COD1 isn't a cult classic. It isn't revered like Halo is. It's not as significant. The COD brand inflated with Modern Warfare, and continue thereafter. Why should I keep batting away these ridiculous comparisons.

And your argument here touches on part of mine. In the weeks following CODs release, the average gamer, the person Microsoft rely on to inflate Halos sales is transfixed on one shooter, and one shooter only. The average gamer doesn't also purchase two extremely similar games just weeks apart. You or I might, but we're not the average gamer.

 

[Domino Theory]

It's coming this year, for the 360. Confirmed numerous times.

Yeah, I really don't know how many times this has to be confirmed for it to sink into minds.

Do people forget that Halo 2 came out a year before the 360 launched? Halo 2 was also the #1 played game over Xbox LIVE on the 360 until a year later when Gears of War released.

Microsoft doesn't need a Halo launch title because the Xbox brand has moved up so much in mainstream minds since the original Xbox. Not to mention the fact that there WILL be a Call of Duty launch title for the next Xbox which will single handedly propel the console on day one.

 

[Scarecrow]

Just because Halo isn't selling as much as CoD doesn't mean it's a failing franchise. New iterations sell millions in their first month. The market can handle both Coke and Pepsi, with a little bit of Dr Pepper (Gears) thrown in.

Also kind of agree that Master Chief's story isn't the selling point of Halo to the masses.

 

[Stinkles]

lol I am comically fat.

 

[Trey]

And your argument here touches on part of mine. In the weeks following CODs release, the average gamer, the person Microsoft rely on to inflate Halos sales is transfixed on one shooter, and one shooter only. The average gamer doesn't also purchase two extremely similar games just weeks apart. You or I might, but we're not the average gamer.

They just did last November. You underestimate the market.