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[Woorloog]

This is the biggest issue I have with the AR. The difference between a good and bad AR player is a lot smaller than the difference between a good and bad BR/DMR player. The BR/DMR rewards good players a lot more.

With bloom, the DMR is the same the AR really... Luck matters too much.
This is why i suggest an AR that can be easily and effectively (unlike H3 and Reach ARs) burst fired and be effective at longer range, good user will be clearly better than a weak one. The gap is smaller than good marksman vs bad marksman but it is still larger than current good AR vs bad AR.

Which of these is the DMR?


So you hate weapons that are flexible/more effective if used correctly? :S

DMR's concept is clearly Order's. In practice it is governed by Random Number God, who is not Chaos.

I don't hate the weapons as much as that they're Jacks-of-all-trades,-Masters-of-All instead of Masters-of-none. The game desing is built around them so much it lacks variety. There is very little reason to use the AR for CQB when the BR/DMR/Magnum are equal or better for that. No reason to use dual-wielding over the AR in Halo 3. Very little reason to use the Carbine or Nerfle when the mainstream BR/DMR are so much better.

 

[Overdoziz]

Except when you learn to burst fire the AR, then nobody else with an AR can touch you. Meanwhile, 85% dmr users can just mash the button and win because the skill component of the DMR has been reduced in the TU.

But that's only effective at a certain distance. At close range burst-firing has no use.

Ugh, I'm going to stop arguing about this. Getting tired of it. AR sux DMR rulez etc.

 

[watership]

Page upon page upon page of discussions on weapon balance. I love it. However, It would epic (and it would never happen) if 343i took away all these previous weapons, and introduced awhole new set of toys to play with. Tears.

 

[Woorloog]

However, It would epic (and it would never happen) if 343i took away all these previous weapons, and introduced awhole new set of toys to play with. Tears.

How i would love this. If it were balanced properly.

 

[JdFoX187]

Except when you learn to burst fire the AR, then nobody else with an AR can touch you. Meanwhile, 85% dmr users can just mash the button and win because the skill component of the DMR has been reduced in the TU.

So holding down the trigger in one weapon requires more skill than pulling a trigger on another? Mind boggles.

 

[FyreWulff]

So holding down the trigger in one weapon requires more skill than pulling a trigger on another? Mind boggles.

Good, then we can just randomly match people together on Xbox Live! Instant search times. Ship it.

 

[JaggedSac]

They need three different ARs with varying stats that a player can choose as their default weapon. Main difference with each is power and distance. But not too much difference.

 

[kittens]

They need three different ARs with varying stats that a player can choose as their default weapon. Main difference with each is power and distance. But not too much difference.

Would they be cosmetically different? Would they sound different? How would you know which AR you're going up against in battle?

I don't think that idea would work.

 

[JaggedSac]

Would they be cosmetically different? Would they sound different? How would you know which AR you're going up against in battle?

I don't think that idea would work.

Spartan body would be different.

 

[Tawpgun]

AR gameplay was boring and messy.

DMR took the most skill out of any gun, especially with the new 85 bloom. But burst fire stills feels more fun to shoot.

Netcode aside, I feel the Halo 3 BR was the perfect weapon. It's spread meant it couldn't be super effective far range.

Take the Halo 3 BR, make it hitscan, put H3 levels of spread on it, BUT BUT BUT, make the first shot of the bullet always land in the center. This will help inconsistencies when it comes to no shields headshots and will make it so you can still ping snipers.

 

[kittens]

Spartan body would be different.

Terminator style sunglasses over the MJOLNIR visor?

 

[Slightly Live]

No Halo 4 Superbowl ad.

The darkness continues ever longer.

 

[The Xtortionist]

Netcode aside, I feel the Halo 3 BR was the perfect weapon. It's spread meant it couldn't be super effective far range.

The H3 BR wasn't even fully effective at mid range.

 

[Conor 419]

Some say there's info out west Californee way.

 

[JaggedSac]

Terminator style sunglasses over the MJOLNIR visor?

Maybe even hipster glasses.

 

[Nutter]

No Halo 4 Superbowl ad.

The darkness continues ever longer.

This shit is worst than living in Northern Alaska without sunlight for a month.

 

[SomeDude]

I can't play anymore halo unless there is significant changes to the gameplay at this point.

 

[Satchel]

Anyone else hoping that 'thrusters' from the trailer are the 'sprint/evade' for Halo 4? Hopefully thery also speed up the walking speed to be the same as the anniversary classic playlist in Reach. Perfect if combined with thrusters....that also allow for double jump.

I'm also hoping we get some sort of (hate to use the term) RPG...elements (eeeww) in this one too.

It would be great to explore forerunner structures and find weaponry, or upgrades to our existing human weaponry. That would be fucking cool, but still wouldn't stray far from the path of what makes Halo Halo.

 

[Orayn]

I can't play anymore halo unless there is significant changes to the gameplay at this point.

In what direction? Halo becoming more like Metroid Prime would be amazing. Halo becoming more like Call of Duty would be very, very bad.

They need three different ARs with varying stats that a player can choose as their default weapon. Main difference with each is power and distance. But not too much difference.

This is the exact opposite of how Halo's weapons have been designed. Each has a very clear role and is readily distinguishable from any other.

 

[The Real Napsta]

Except when you learn to burst fire the AR, then nobody else with an AR can touch you. Meanwhile, 85% dmr users can just mash the button and win because the skill component of the DMR has been reduced in the TU.

Get off this bandwagon, please. It's so annoying.

 

[Havok]

The H3 BR wasn't even fully effective at mid range.

A big part of that was the pretty bad netcode and the BR not being hitscan. Spread in itself is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[The Xtortionist]

Anyone else hoping that 'thrusters' from the trailer are the 'sprint/evade' for Halo 4? Hopefully thery also speed up the walking speed to be the same as the anniversary classic playlist in Reach. Perfect if combined with thrusters....that also allow for double jump.

Thrusters should act as both strafe jump and Space Jump (double jump) from Metroid Prime.

come at me bros

A big part of that was the pretty bad netcode and the BR not being hitscan. Spread in itself is not necessarily a bad thing.

Take bullet refunding out of the equation and I highly doubt the BR will give you a consistent 4sk S2 to G2 on Guardian.

 

[FyreWulff]

A big part of that was the pretty bad netcode and the BR not being hitscan. Spread in itself is not necessarily a bad thing.

Leading shots was too hard for people to understand.

 

[KidA Seven]

Except when you learn to burst fire the AR, then nobody else with an AR can touch you. Meanwhile, 85% dmr users can just mash the button and win because the skill component of the DMR has been reduced in the TU.

There is this thing called aiming that largely determines the skill of the DMR. But go ahead and say "mash the button and win." Aiming skill determines the gap between a veteran and a noob and that gap is much more vast during dmr battles. Burst fire doesn't really do much to a weapon that is mostly used within melee range.

 

[Satchel]

Thrusters should act as both strafe jump and Space Jump (double jump) from Metroid Prime.

come at me bros.

Come at you? Why?

I think double jump in Halo 4 would be awesome. Also having maps/playlists that are designed around it would be awesome too. So have playlists that involve double jump, and some that don't.

But in all honesty, I don't think having double jump would really damage anything, or drastically affect the Halo gameplay too much. It would basically involve a slight rethink in how MP maps are made really, that's about it, not necessarily a bad thing.

But it could open up some awesome moments in SP though, especially co-op.

 

[FyreWulff]

There is this thing called aiming that largely determines the skill of the DMR. But go ahead and say "mash the button and win."

You're playing a console FPS. A large amount of your shots are being autoaimed and magnetised onto your target for you anyway. It's even more apparent in 85% and ZB.

Leading in Halo 3, bloom in Reach.. people just apparently want a semi-auto sniper rifle off spawn, and are just going to dig their heels in until we get the Halo 2 BR again. Meh. At least the original Halo 1 pistol had to actually be lead.

 

[Overdoziz]

You're playing a console FPS. A large amount of your shots are being autoaimed and magnetised onto your target for you anyway. It's even more apparent in 85% and ZB.

You're hilarious.

 

[Slightly Live]

This shit is worst than living in Northern Alaska without sunlight for a month.

At least you'd could look at the starry sky. =P

 

[feel]

No Halo 4 Superbowl ad.

The darkness continues ever longer.

2013 release date confirmed. Development hell confirmed. Ryan Payton am laugh.

 

[ncsuDuncan]

2013 release date confirmed. Development hell confirmed. Ryan Payton am laugh.

Human sacrifice.
Dogs and cats living together.
Mass hysteria.

 

[Nutter]

Come at you? Why?

I think double jump in Halo 4 would be awesome. Also having maps/playlists that are designed around it would be awesome too. So have playlists that involve double jump, and some that don't.

But in all honesty, I don't think having double jump would really damage anything, or drastically affect the Halo gameplay too much. It would basically involve a slight rethink in how MP maps are made really, that's about it, not necessarily a bad thing.

But it could open up some awesome moments in SP though, especially co-op.

The same can be said about jet-packs, and all the other shit known as Armor Abilities and we all know how awesome they turned out.. oh wait.

And as far as your comment on Halo needing to change drastically, that is what Reach was to many who played Halo 1 to 3. So here is the deal, you keep Reach as it is and let Halo return to its form, how it used to be.

 

[The Xtortionist]

The same can be said about jet-packs, and all the other shit known as Armor Abilities and we all know how awesome they turned out.. oh wait.

And as far as your comment on Halo needing to change drastically, that is what Reach was to many who played Halo 1 to 3. So here is the deal, you keep Reach as it is and let Halo return to its form, how it used to be.

Hey guy, AAs would be good if they were balanced like Shadowrun and not balanced like drunken Shadowrun.

I don't Halo needs to drastically change but some new "always-on" mechanics would be nice.

 

[blamite]

Also 343i for the love of god, more of this in Halo 4.

Super late but I was making a (bad) joke about how the HW spartans are somehow even less memorable than Reach's.

 

[kittens]

Maybe even hipster glasses.

Was that in reference to my glasses? Cause if so, it was funny.

PS: Ordered Halo Wars, super stoked.

 

[Overdoziz]

Super late but I was making a (bad) joke about how the HW spartans are somehow even less memorable than Reach's.

Well the Spartans in Halo Wars were hardly the focus of the story. They were mentioned once or twice and that's practically it. In Reach the Spartans were the main focus and the entire story revolved around them.

 

[Nutter]

Hey guy, AAs would be good if they were balanced like Shadowrun and not balanced like drunken Shadowrun.

I don't Halo needs to drastically change but some new "always-on" mechanics would be nice.

"Always on" is essentially what AA's are. Overshields or Camo should NEVER be "always on".

 

[Havok]

Leading shots was too hard for people to understand.

My distaste for that BR isn't that it had to be lead, but I think that the combination of that and the netcode (people ate shots so often at midrange) made it feel inconsistent. Is that really such an unreasonable thing that you've got to generalize into a 'they were too stupid to understand it' group like you've done with people who don't like bloom?

 

[The Xtortionist]

"Always on" is essentially what AA's are. Overshields or Camo should NEVER be "always on".

I don't see how a double jump or quick dodge maneuver or what have you compares to something like OS or Camo.

Also AAs are somewhat conditional since you have to acquire them. By "always on" I mean something as core as jumping and shooting.

Body shots would always hit well, and with my idea that the first bullet will always land in the center, getting that killing blow won't be a problem.

OK, blast them 3 times in the body, move to the head for the final shot, WHOOPS, the 12th bullet flew off to the right, guess now it's a 5 shot.

 

[Tawpgun]

The H3 BR wasn't even fully effective at mid range.

Body shots would always hit well, and with my idea that the first bullet will always land in the center, getting that killing blow won't be a problem.

You're playing a console FPS. A large amount of your shots are being autoaimed and magnetised onto your target for you anyway. It's even more apparent in 85% and ZB.

Didn't someone or other prove that 85 slayer is better, more consistent with facts and such. Who posted that again?

 

[blamite]

Well the Spartans in Halo Wars were hardly the focus of the story. They were mentioned once or twice and that's practically it. In Reach the Spartans were the main focus and the entire story revolved around them.

Yeah, my point is really that It'd be a huge missed opportunity to bring those buys back rather that introducing new interesting characters.

 

[GodfatherX]

2013 release date confirmed. Development hell confirmed. Ryan Payton am laugh.

well Ryan did say what he wanted to do with Halo 4 was a big departure from the norm and it seemed like the rest of 343i didn't have the same idea. Now we know covenant/unsc/halo 1 vehicles are in it so I did almost immediately think of Payton when i saw those

 

[Zeal]

This no news shit is turning into a Halo 2-era situation. Please have an actual game to show, guys. Please...

If something isn't shown soon, I will disregard anything that's said by 343 and assume H4 has become an Xbox Next launch title

 

[Slightly Live]

This no news shit is turning into a Halo 2-era situation. Please have an actual game to show, guys. Please...

If something isn't shown soon, I will disregard anything that's said by 343 and assume H4 has become an Xbox Next launch title

Frankie is pretty adamant that Halo 4 is coming out this year. Willing to give 343 the benefit of the doubt, as hard as it is without seeing anything.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

So they have been. And each game is (wrongly) desinged around them, instead of making them specialized weapons as well. I'm strongly opposed to the concept of "utility weapon" as they are usually master-of-all-trades instead of master-of-none.
They reduce the game's weapon sandbox to one weapon effectively, if power weapons are not counted. Really boring. Variety is good.



(Theoretical) Damage output of Halo 3's AR was among the stronges weapons in the game after power weapons. 16 bullets (1 second burst, half a magazine asssuming everyone hits) kills. BR was slightly faster if you managed to four shot another but only very slightly.
In practice it wasn't as good... but it didn't need to be. 10 bullets to a target, then punch him to death.

Im glad you agree that variety is good. I would argue that with a utility weapon there is a greater variety in the gameplay itself. The only variety you get when people use the wider range of the sandbox is visual variety. However ultimately the gameplay plays very much the same. Rock paper scissors style gameplay isnt varied, but when the larger sandbox comes into play thats mostly what it comes down to. When everyone has a good weapon the stuff they can do with it is pretty damn impressive and varied.

 

[Elginer]

At this point I'm starting to believe Halo 4 is a myth, an idea with no actual hard proof. Prove me wrong Frankie.

Spoiler

Drop the trailer now!!!

 

[TheOddOne]

I believe in Half Life 3.

 

[Elginer]

I believe in Half Life 3.

Don't we all?

Spoiler

No.

 

[nomis]

You're playing a console FPS. A large amount of your shots are being autoaimed and magnetised onto your target for you anyway. It's even more apparent in 85% and ZB.

Leading in Halo 3, bloom in Reach.. people just apparently want a semi-auto sniper rifle off spawn, and are just going to dig their heels in until we get the Halo 2 BR again. Meh. At least the original Halo 1 pistol had to actually be lead.

In a perfect connection LAN environment, yes it worked. To my recollection, it also had the most magnetism of any 2x zoom weapon in the series.

 

[beastmode]

Give me a pathetic short range starting weapon (SMG/AR) and put more emphasis on the Battlefield mode & objective gametypes.

plz

 

[FyreWulff]

In a perfect connection LAN environment, yes it worked. To my recollection, it also had the most magnetism of any 2x zoom weapon in the series.

It had a pretty decent amount, but the unscoped Halo 2 BR practically aimed for you. It took me too long to figuring out that actually using the BR's scope in Halo 2 was the wrong thing to do.