K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, the Flood in Firefight would be fucking awesome. Just don't make me fight them in campaign. Having them in FF only seems unlikely, though. :-\
Halo 4 Announced (MS Conf, 2012, Start Of New Trilogy)
- Thread starter Sanic
- Start date
Devolution
Member
Why the fuck are you acting like the two are mutually exclusive?
You're going places.
Oh who am I kidding, you've already gone places.
Hydranockz
Member
A game isn't a recipe? Ok... no. Every game is a recipe. Games are, by many definitions, a series of rules inside a sandbox. Much like a recipe, the end result is a combination of its components. What makes games different from each other is how the components are used. You might have a handful of stuff in your fridge but you can achieve many different meals.
Games are, in fact, recipes. Legacy issues don't exist in recipes. Instead, new recipes are formed.
Um, are you daft. There's gameplay, and story. For the love of christ.
Devolution
Member
Yes I am the daft one when you're sitting here acting like a storyline somehow fucks gameplay up. There's no need getting an attitude with those who care about a narrative structure in their games. What the fuck is your problem?
I see what you're trying to say, but you gotta understand, you're presenting your opinions very inefficiently. It takes you about three posts to get to your main point, and along the way, you leave bad impressions with your fellow posters. For better or worse, we all have some issue with certain things in the Halo franchise. But we're still here, waiting for more information on the next installment of the series.
The issues you bring up do have some merit. Consider being more eloquent in the delivery. Instead of trying to drown out any dissenting opinions some (rightfully) offer you--usually because you phrased your distaste in such a vague and confusing way--just say what your issue is straight away.
Because it does. Since you want to insist that the Flood MUST BE IN HALO ALWAYS, it fucks up the gameplay because they have not been fun to fight since they were with the Covenant in Halo 1.
I'm going to throw that right back at you.
Are you daft? The gameplay is driven by the story and in some cases vice versa. They can never be mutually exclusive or the entire medium of games would make no sense.
There you are, again defining what other people find 'fun'. You can't dismiss the Flood as not fun for everyone. Sure, you might not enjoy fighting them, but there are plenty of examples on the last two apges of people who do. People who enjoy the story also enjoy the Flood being a part of the game. Bungie/343 make the game based on what they want, taking into account what fans want. Believe it or not, the Halo series wasn't made to make "789shadow" happy.
Perish the thought, the universe does not revolve around you.
Devolution
Member
I didn't insist this and if you had any proper reading comprehension you'd notice that the people did gave plenty of reasons for their inclusion. The Flood should at the very least have some sort of presence due to their importance in the Halo Universe and Narrative, whether they're an actual foe to defeat can be up for debate and people can talk about where they feel the interactions with them failed. Instead you're just being an antagonistic jerk about the whole situation and making it into a Gameplay vs Storyline scenario for no fucking reason. Either learn to argue your points and not insult fellow posters because your elaboration sucks or deal with the fact that people don't like what the fuck you're typing.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
There are things more evolved Flood can do that were mentioned in the newest book. If we are fighting those version (probably will be) they can do A LOT of cool stuff with them based on what they are.
Also besides what you think or want Halo has a story a lot of people care about and the Flood are a critical part of the story. They do NEED to be in the game.
I can't quite agree with that. Gameplay and story can certainly be mutually exclusive.
The issue here is that shadow wrongfully believes that the Flood cannot be iterated upon to provide gameplay he would enjoy--though he seems to dislike the Flood on principle. They will be in the narrative going forward, but they don't necessarily have to be directly engaged.
Flood does not necessarily equal bad gameplay in my opinion, it just needs to be executed right, so I don't see why the fiction should've headed in a completely different direction.
Devolution
Member
They're not going to be mutually exclusive in a Halo game so it's a moot point.
No, that's not correct. The story and gameplay are two seperate things, and they don't have any effect on each other, UNLESS it is insisted that a subpar element of the gameplay must remain due to story reasons. I don't buy this. I don't want to suffer through mediocre gameplay because the developers think themselves bound by the story. I don't care if there's a huge plot hole caused, remove the offending gameplay element.
The Flood are predictable, boring to fight (shotgun big ones, AR little ones), frustrating if they surround you, and they have too much bullet sponginess. I don't like fighting them. If you like fighting them, ok, but if you don't like fighting them but think they should still be in because they're some sort of necessary component of the story, I don't know what to say. The Flood DO NOT need to be in Halo 4 for any reason, story or otherwise. We killed the Flood in Halo 3, and even though that's not all of them, that doesn't mean they MUST show up. If they improved the Flood, ok, but since I can only draw on past experience, I lean toward just put in new enemies and put the Flood to rest.
Guys, he's just trolling.
Or a bit of a jackass
You probably should've posted this a few pages back.
Devolution
Member
Now what was so hard about just posting like this in the first place?
Usually the only troll is the one who throws the first stone.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Shit dude, you've been throwing stones like confetti.
How do you figure?
I'm certainly speaking for nobody but myself when I say this: my enjoyment of Halo's combat doesn't come from its universe or setting but rather the gameplay elements it has and the scenarios you find yourself in. Elites aren't fun to fight because of their significance to the lore, but rather than they're some bad motherfuckers in combat.
The only time I could really say the story supplemented my enjoyment of the gameplay was the Hog Run.
If having an opinion is trolling, then yes.
Hydranockz
Member
Ludology is the idea that games are fun because of the core gameplay mechanics.
Narratology is the idea that games are fun because of they tell a story.
Gaming theory disciplines that even Huizinga himself finds too restrictive (will have to double check that opinion
). A game cannot be fun without a context or some kind of story. A game also cannot be fun without some gameplay mechanics.Halo's story and gameplay are necessary for the success of each other... Just like every other game out there...
Yes they do. There's really no other option that wouldn't be an embarrassment of fiction building and plot advancement.
Now whether we fight them in game or not remains to be seen.
Ludology is the idea that games are fun because of the core gameplay mechanics.
Narratology is the idea that games are fun because of they tell a story.
Gaming theory disciplines that even Huizinga himself finds too restrictive (will have to double check that opinion
Halo's story and gameplay are necessary for the success of each other... Just like every other game out there...
This simply isn't true. I'll give some examples:
Minecraft, Mario Kart, basically most Mario games (they have some story but only the teeniest basics), and some other games (I don't feel like typing them all out).
I don't believe a game with bad gameplay can be fun. Gameplay is the only thing seperating gaming from any other medium, and therefore must be the most important part.
Of course games need context, else they wouldn't have rules, and therefore would not be a game. But games certainly don't need a story to be fun.
Multiplayer components, for example.
I've always wanted to see Kenneth Scott's take on the Flood. Plus I want to see what sort of funky animations they can do to improve upon Halo 3's morphing/infection transition/whatever you want to call it. (It's a bit of a shame they won't have DX11 tessellation to aid the complexity of their morphology until next gen).
They certainly don't need to be in the present time, and definitely not in gameplay.
Hydranockz
Member
Saving a princess is kinda key in Mario games
I'll elaborate more in the morning. Mario Kart, Portal, Doom and many other games are fun because of gameplay of course. That gameplay is set in context though. The levels in Mario or the setting of Doom games have fuck all to do with gameplay and yet can influence fun greatly.Saving a princess is kinda key in Mario games
Geometry Wars 2.
Saving a princess is kinda key in Mario games
All games have context, not all of them have story. Games need context, not story. Halo would be fun if you completely ignored the story entirely. All you need is the Covenant and the multiplayer (not called Reach), and you're set.
Devolution
Member
Context is derived from story dude. What the fuck. Narrative Structure how does it work.
Hydranockz
Member
Geometric shapes are context enough clearly. As a triangular shape you have this uneasy feeling around the many, many non triangular shapes around you. They want you dead.
You want a war... again
No it isn't. Please for the love of god stop insisting that a full story is any sort of requirement for a game.
Devolution
Member
Um it's not but we're talking about HALO dude. CONTEXT. How does it work.
Not in all cases.
Geometric shapes are context enough clearly. As a triangular shape you have this uneasy feeling around the many, many non triangular shapes around you. They want you dead.
You want a war... again
It has no story. Or rather, not one that is told by the game. And it certainly doesn't support the gameplay. You're not shooting the shapes because they're not quite your polygon, you're shooting them to get points and georms so you can get more points.
There's no reason to discuss this in the abstract - we're talking Halo. The Flood are absolutely foundational to the the Halo universe, and the setting of the new game more than invites their presence. You can't really make a Halo 4, especially one set on a Forerunner structure, without addressing them.
So it's about racism?Geometric shapes are context enough clearly. As a triangular shape you have this uneasy feeling around the many, many non triangular shapes around you. They want you dead.
You want a war... again
What exactly does it being Halo have anything to do with anything.
Hydranockz
Member
Stop putting words in people's mouths for a start.
Halo is a AAA fucking Microsoft flagship series title. Suddenly the idea that stories and gameplay mechanics actually simultaneously enhance each other shouldn't seem so silly.
Because the story is a massive part of the game? To think other wise is just kind of baffling
Big whoop. The huge drawing points for Halo on average are
1. Multiplayer
2. Multiplayer
3. Campaign
4. Co-op campaign.
That's why Halo is so popular, not because of it's thrilling and imaginative universe.
To be fair... I didnt like Galaxy at all either. I also bought it because when I didnt like it I was just a Mario hater and I felt like since I didnt like it something was wrong with me... same thing with Zelda SS. Didnt like it. Bought it. Didnt like it. Put dolphin on my PC for the HD. Still didnt like it.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
It's funny how HaloGAF has wildly divergent opinions on even the smallest details of the series, but manages to be mostly civil. Yet this Shadow guy is so fucking inflammatory that he has entire pages devoted to arguing with him, and he's only been in Halo threads for a little over 24 hours.
Makes you wonder.
Makes you wonder.
Can't agree with you there, either. Its multi is the star of the show, but the Campaign is very much beloved and widely played.
Wonder why everyone is so sensitive? Yep.
Which is why I put it in the list. Campaign is not the story.
Hydranockz
Member
What does this even mean? ;_;
I almost "wat"ed this, but I remembered I have to think three posts into the future when it comes to you.
The campaign has certain gameplay scenarios dealing with AI and the rules of campaign, but the story is dealt with in that mode, and many people will play the game to learn more about the fiction.
That's why it'll be in the game. That's why it's important.