Wii U Speculation Thread 2: Can't take anymore of this!!!

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Wow, a bit saddened by some comments while trying to catch up with all the new pages, and here i thought that i took all the precautions in the world in my foreword warning :(

I'll write something later about that but it takes time to read through 5 or 6 pages of new posts.
 
IdeaMan said:
Wow, a bit saddened by some comments while trying to catch up with all the new pages, and here i taught that i took all the precautions in the world in my foreword warning :(

I'll write something later about that but it takes time to read trough 5 or 6 pages of new posts.
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Again man, it's nothing against you.

I just don't think we should be lambasting one guy for his stance while propping up another just because one favors an agenda. Both at the time of reveal unverified.
 
Donnie said:
He's saying that the current WiiU dev kit is less powerful than XBox 360, that's either crazy or very bad.

Even IF he's just misinterpreting things (its a programming issue because of early software ect) then his conclusion is still bad.
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But you have to think what things are they doing in his game, is not that simple.
 
Thunder Monkey said:
Again man, it's nothing against you.

I just don't think we should be lambasting one guy for his stance while propping up another just because one favors an agenda. Both at the time of reveal unverified.
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Why does an agenda have to come into it? How about believability? When not a single person says WiiU dev kits are less powerful than current gen consoles then one person pops up and says they are they're info simply isn't believable, not at face value anyway.

On the other hand when someone pops up and says that dev kits are twice as powerful as current gen that's believable because it fits with most other info before it. Seems pretty reasonable to me. I mean its not like people are believing someone who's trying to claim the console is 5 or 6 times current gen, which is about as believable as it being weaker than current gen.
 
lherre said:
But you have to think what things are they doing in his game, is not that simple.
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I get that, but you're missing my point. If its an issue with the way they're programming the game then its still incorrect to just say "WiiU dev kit is weaker than 360", its misleading in that case.

I mean surely they must know details about the system which would show them that despite their results the WiiU dev kit is actually stronger in most ways?
 
For IGN to say that the next Xbox is only 20 percent more powerful than Wii U...and then to hear from Arkham that Wii U isn't even as powerful as 360 are very, very drastic differences.

Even since that IGN article, it's been driving people crazy about the Wii U specs, and now no one knows what to expect.
 
lherre said:
But you have to think what things are they doing in his game, is not that simple.
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I said this early on and it still applies.

You can have a perfectly competent dev with a foreign (even mildly so) architecture and get drastically different results from another.

It's never that cut and dry. The best looking Wii games, aside from resolution, look better than the worst looking 360 games. Hell, depending on the makeup of the game porting unoptimized framebuffer effects can wreak havoc on performance. MGS2 Xbox port for instance.

Just so I don't seem like an ass. I want to extend my thanks to anyone giving us info. From those with outlooks we agree with to those we don't.
 
magash said:
The problem is Vigil flat out said the WiiU was stronger than the Xbox360.
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It doesn't mean it's stronger in every single aspect, and even if it was the fact it doesn't likely have the exact same architecture can make some things quite complicated.
 
Jocchan said:
It doesn't mean it's stronger in every single aspect, and even if it was the fact it doesn't likely have the exact same architecture can make some things quite complicated.
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Slight differences in fillrate, or not enough eDram, or slower memory or or or.

There could be a million different reasons why the engine they're using isn't running well on the WiiU. It doesn't mean he's lying, it doesn't mean they are incompetent.

This has been a hell of a thrill ride.
 
Thunder Monkey said:
I said this early on and it still applies.

You can have a perfectly competent dev with a foreign (even mildly so) architecture and get drastically different results from another.

It's never that cut and dry. The best looking Wii games, aside from resolution, look better than the worst looking 360 games. Hell, depending on the makeup of the game porting unoptimized framebuffer effects can wreak havoc on performance. MGS2 Xbox port for instance.

Just so I don't seem like an ass. I want to extend my thanks to anyone giving us info. From those with outlooks we agree with to those we don't.
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But shouldn´t a developer know that? He outright claimed that WiiU was weaker, would take hits from current gen ports. lherre is different from that and this i appreciate.
 
Jocchan said:
It doesn't mean it's stronger in every single aspect, and even if it was the fact it doesn't likely have the exact same architecture can make some things quite complicated.
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There are some things the Gamecube does better than the Xbox but holistically analysing the strengths of the two consoles the Xbox is stronger.

What I am getting at is a console can be weaker at certain things when compared to another console but it can be stronger as a whole.
 
TwilightPrincess said:
But shouldn´t a developer know that? He outright claimed that WiiU was weaker, would take hits from current gen ports. lherre is different from that and this i appreciate.
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We don't exactly know his position in the company.

Art director? Concept artist? Modeler? Game Tester?

I only know this shit because I have no life. Well I've got a life. It involves reading about videogame tech, and more often lately limited tech docs and developer interviews. When they really get to talking (especially tech oriented guys) they tend to spill tricks and cheats they used to create effects cheaply.
 
Donnie said:
Why does an agenda have to come into it? How about believability? When not a single person says WiiU dev kits are less powerful than current gen consoles then one person pops up and says they are they're info simply isn't believable, not at face value anyway.
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magash said:
The problem is Vigil flat out said the WiiU was stronger than the Xbox360.
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You people are way too set on measuring console "power" using a single metric. It's perfectly possible for Wii U to be faster than current gen consoles in some aspects and less capable in others. E.g. I'd wager that its peak CPU FLOPs rate could well be below PS3s.

If one thing is clear from all these hints it's that PS360 -> WiiU will be a step a lot closer to PS2/GC -> Wii than to a traditional generational leap.
 
Durante said:
You people are way too set on measuring console "power" using a single metric. It's perfectly possible for Wii U to be faster than current gen consoles in some aspects and less capable in others. E.g. I'd wager that its peak CPU FLOPs rate could well be below PS3s.

If one thing is clear from all these hints it's that PS360 -> WiiU will be a step a lot closer to PS2/GC -> Wii than to a traditional generational leap.
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This is what the Technical Director/Lead Programmer at Vigil said about the WiiU:
Yeah, just because the hardware is more powerful and it will have some extra features that I think will actually be useful to people playing the game. With it’s controller, [the Wii U version of Darksiders II] might be the best version of the game.
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http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/06/07/could-project-caf-233-be-the-best-platform-for-darksiders-ii.aspx

I believe when Colin Bonstead was talking about the power of the WiiU he wasn't referring to a single metric like faster processing power or faster GPU but rather the entire WiiU package.
 
Durante said:
You people are way too set on measuring console "power" using a single metric. It's perfectly possible for Wii U to be faster than current gen consoles in some aspects and less capable in others. E.g. I'd wager that its peak CPU FLOPs rate could well be below PS3s.

If one thing is clear from all these hints it's that PS360 -> WiiU will be a step a lot closer to PS2/GC -> Wii than to a traditional generational leap.
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I honestly don't see how that would be possible. I can't see Sony or MS having anymore than 2 gigs of a unified RAM if they launch in 2013. Or 3 gigs in a split pool. At the most they will have 3 times the amount of RAM. Now each of their GPU's could be quite a bit more powerful, but we're still not talking a metric jump.

If anything... I think a lot of current console gamers (especially those tech oriented) are going to be put off by all three. I can pretty much guarantee you'll be able to build a PC infinitely more powerful than any of them the day of their launch. The WiiU will probably be eclipsed at a much higher rate though.
 
20120302gdctriforce.png
 
Jocchan said:
It doesn't mean it's stronger in every single aspect, and even if it was the fact it doesn't likely have the exact same architecture can make some things quite complicated.
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And that probably becomes an even bigger problem for developers relying on external middleware. It's interesting to note that all developers praising the system are middleware developers as well (Epic, Vigil, Crytek - even Gearbox is more than just a regular UE licensee), they should have a much deeper understanding and don't have to wait for anyone else.
 
Durante said:
You people are way too set on measuring console "power" using a single metric. It's perfectly possible for Wii U to be faster than current gen consoles in some aspects and less capable in others. E.g. I'd wager that its peak CPU FLOPs rate could well be below PS3s.

If one thing is clear from all these hints it's that PS360 -> WiiU will be a step a lot closer to PS2/GC -> Wii than to a traditional generational leap.
Click to expand...

I understand that WiiU can be weaker in one way or another and still be the more powerful system. But that doesn't equal "The current WiiU dev kit is weaker than Xbox 360", which is what Arkam said. That's why I said his contents can't be taken at face value.
 
magash said:
The problem is Vigil flat out said the WiiU was stronger than the Xbox360.
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It really isn't that simple. I don't work for a company, but I do program. And not every API excepts the same language (or except it in the same way). For example, a lot of what I learned in Visual Basics, didn't translate over to C exactly the same.

Same goes for programming for the Xbox and for the WiiU. They may have been trying to use a code that wasn't compatible, and when Arkham over heard it didn't work, he ASSUMED it would never work and that the WiiU doesn't support the graphically effect, instead of assuming that they just have to program it differently.

Of course I could also be wrong, just saying.
 
AHH, I'm going crazy! What is real, what is not?

This thread has way too many ups and downs. Maybe I should stop reading until GDC comes and we get actual information.
 
Thunder Monkey said:
I honestly don't see how that would be possible. I can't see Sony or MS having anymore than 2 gigs of a unified RAM if they launch in 2013. Or 3 gigs in a split pool. At the most they will have 3 times the amount of RAM. Now each of their GPU's could be quite a bit more powerful, but we're still not talking a metric jump.
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A full generational leap is probably not in the cards before 2014, but I believe MS/Sony can come a lot closer to it than Wii U will. If they want to.

Thunder Monkey said:
I can pretty much guarantee you'll be able to build a PC infinitely more powerful than any of them the day of their launch.
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I agree that this is pretty much a certainty at this point. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if my current rig is technically more powerful than the next-gen consoles in at least some aspects.
 
Durante said:
A full generational leap is probably not in the cards before 2014, but I believe MS/Sony can come a lot closer to it than Wii U will. If they want to.

I agree that this is pretty much a certainty at this point. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if my current rig is technically more powerful than the next-gen consoles in at least some aspects.
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WELL THEN WHY AM I SHOUTING AT YOU?!
 
I hope Nintendo isn't pushing devs to reach 1080p on all the ports. That would be so stupid, but would also explain a lot of the recent comments.
 
Apophis2036 said:
I also live in the UK and would be 'happy as larry' if Wii U launched for £250 (im expecting £300), the fact that PSV is £240 in shops makes the idea of a true next gen console that will last at least 6 or 7 years for £250 sounds like a bargain to me.

I imagine they will bundle a game to show off the the tablet controllers unique abbilities aswell, so £250 would be more than fine with me.

Even if it's £300, the fact that the tablet will let you surf the net, browse the Nintendo Network and prob play all the Nintendo store games from past generations (prob not Gamecube), i feel it would be more than worth the money as it will double up as a very simple Ipad.
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Be careful what you wish for.

Priced too high and the Wii U will draw unfavourable comparisons with ipad or even, by then, a £200 Xbox 360 with a capacious 250GB (or higher) Hard Disk Drive.

I wouldn't take PSV as any kind of indicator either - it did a record-breaking launch in the UK (record breakingly bad that is). It's recently been reduced to £197.00 at Amazon and Asda and will doubtless fall much further by Xmas 2012 when Wii U arrives. Most retailers introduced it at just under £230 btw.

As far as I'm aware, Wii is the only Nintendo console to have remained on the market without a successsor for this long. Most Nintendo consoles see a successor within 5 to 5.5 years of their current console.

£200 [the equivalent of just over US $317] for a basic pack with a Wii Sports type pack in does not sound unreasonable to me.
 
Nibel said:
Nah, your sources are wrong dude.
Just checked the gaming forum of Gold GAF and someone found a photo of the early Nintendo E3 2012 rehearsal, check it out:

ZUkUn.png
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ThunderMonkey said:
Impossible.

His hair already has a 100% awesome factor.

200% awesome hair could tear down the very fabric of space/time.
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I can already feel the veil of reality being altered.
 
lednerg said:
I hope Nintendo isn't pushing devs to reach 1080p on all the ports. That would be so stupid, but would also explain a lot of the recent comments.
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From the guys who didn't care if you released 4:3 480i Wii games, hard to imagine.
M.I.S. said:
Be careful what you wish for. As far as I'm aware, Wii is the only Nintendo console to have remained on the market without a successsor for this long.
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In Japan, NES->SNES was 7+ years. In the west it was a few months less than 6, so Wii->Wii U should be pretty close.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
From the guys who didn't care if you released 4:3 480i Wii games, hard to imagine.
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It's not like devs had a choice in the matter on the Wii. EDIT: oh you mean the 4:3 part? Meh.

Anyway, it's just that 1080p is all Reggie can ever say whenever confronted with the word 'graphics'. (Maybe it's not Nintendo doing the pushing as much as the publishers - that'd be more believable.) It's conceivable that devs would be having trouble if they had to hit 1080p on ports that are below 720p @20fps on a 360. Especially when you're dealing with unoptimized engines and brand new hardware.

When you make a jump in resolutions like that, and then add the touchscreen to it, then it's not exactly an apples to oranges comparison anymore. You can't say Wii U games look [whatever] times as good as a 360 when the Wii U is having to do all that extra work by default.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
In Japan, NES->SNES was 7+ years. In the west it was a few months less than 6, so Wii->Wii U should be pretty close.
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Thanks! Though, the Wii is pretty much running on fumes anyway. My point was that post-SNES, Nintendo just don't appear to have the staying power to support their home console for anything more than 5 years.
 
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