The Walking Dead - Season 2 - Sundays on AMC

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walbertsmith said:
That's more an indictment of those people, not Shane. He didn't force anyone to be racist nor did he force dude to beat up on Carol.

And despite Merle's clear douchebaggery, like Darryl he was probably extremely useful in other ways.

And to be clear, I'm not a Shane apologist. He was a despicable character and deserved to die... but retroactively applying all these undeserved negative traits to him is inaccurate at best.
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Granted, I do need to refresh my memory of season 1, but that doesn't detract from the fact that he, as leader, let two elements as such stay in the group without addressing them. In fact, the only time he seemed to care about Carol was when his happy home got torn apart by Rick's Return. I'm not trying to retroactively add a trait that wasn't there. He was self centered from the start.
 
This show's The Walking Dead, based on the comic book The Walking Dead and all the characters from the comic book.
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xRNHv.png
 
Oldschoolgamer said:
Granted, I do need to refresh my memory of season 1, but that doesn't detract from the fact that he, as leader, let two elements as such stay in the group without addressing them. In fact, the only time he seemed to care about Carol was when his happy home got torn apart by Rick's Return. I'm not trying to retroactively add a trait that wasn't there. He was self centered from the start.
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So what do you propose he do? Darryl is obviously a skilled tracker/hunter, and it's not farfetched to assume his older brother would have the same qualities. Would you kick them out of the group for being racist despite the fact their very skills are *crucial* for the group's survival? And is he supposed to step into a domestic scenario that he has absolutely nothing to do with? Shane's not a marriage counselor and he can't just kick out Alan (I think that's his name) because he's part of a family and Carol still defended him.

There's a lot more at stake in that survival scenario than trying to be a social justice defender or domestic disturbance enforcement. These people are trying to survive the end of the world, sheesh.
 
It pains me to see that AMC is penny pinching around considering the show's numbers. At least the visual effects are great, whereas other shows throw them out of the window.
 
I'm glad last night's episode had way more practical zombie kills. None of this cg blood crap. The head-smash was really good, the way it was still twitching afterwards.
 
WedgeX said:
Shane let the camp get run over. Rick brought guns back with which to kill zombies. Shane didn't follow Rick when he lured the zombies away from Sophia.... Shane shot Otis. Shane burst open the barn, causing Hershel to drink and then the groups run into the scavengers, and the despair of blondie and her attempted suicide. Shane alienated Dale, causing him to go on a walk. Shane broke Randall's neck. Shane was banging away on a metal windmill.....

Who did Rick get killed?
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How did Shane let the camp get run over exactly? There were no threats of zombies in their camp until Rick showed the fuck up. They then had zombies falling out of their asses. Thanks Rick!

It's just funny that they were doing relatively well for themselves when Shane ran shit, and then Rick pops up, people die, and then everything is Shane's fault... what a load of shit. The only change Rick managed to make was thinning the group.
_dementia said:
I'm Team Shane as anyone, but if Otis wasn't dead, they'd know ghost girl was in the barn.

Remember, he's the one that captured all the walkers stuck in the swamp/mud/whatever.
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And if Rick was a better leader they would have given up on a pointless crusade and it wouldn't matter if she was in that barn or not.

Anyone with half a braincell knew that girl was fucked the night after she disappeared into a forest full of undead. There was no other outcome. A GOOD leader would understand this. But Rick isn't a good leader, he belongs on the disney channel or a saturday morning cartoon show where most of his "morals" belong. Not in the real world.
ryutaro's mama said:
Rick isn't perfect either but he approaches situations better than Shane, hands down.

Shane killed Otis so he could be the hero everyone would love.

Shane finally did kill Randall...and it almost ended up getting Glen and Daryl killed.

Shane put all that macho shit into Carl's head...and it got Dale killed.

And that backfired too.

I can go on about Shane O Mac.

:P
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He might approach situations better, but I know one thing: I rather be right with a shitty presentation than wrong with a good one.

Shane Killed Otis because it was a smart way to save his ass and Carl's. I didn't see him asking anyone for gratitude or a pat on the back...

He killed Randall and saved the group from a potentially larger threat. (which doesn't really mean much now that Carl let off a round and attracted the zombies. WHY DOES NO ONE WATCH HIM)

Oh this is bullshit and you know it. Macho crap? What are you talking about? When did Shane ever tell Carl to wander in the woods by himself? You know, like a real man would! The fuck out of here. Shane is as overly protective of him as anyone is. He has never tried to instill this idea that he should go around fucking with zombies. Only that he should shoot them if they are fucking with him. Dale got killed because Rick and Lori are shitty parents WHO DON'T WATCH THEIR ONLY FUCKING CHILD. But somehow... that's Shane's fault. smfh
Kylehimself said:
Yeah, but if it wasn't for Rick Shane would just be dropping people left, right and centre if they didn't agree with him.
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Yeah, because that's what he was doing when he was running shit before Super Rick showed up right? He was just killing people at random because they had disagreements?

And when has Shane ONCE killed a member of his group who didn't agree with him? Hell, he could have easily killed Dale out right in those swamps if he wanted to.. yet he didn't. But for some reason I'm supposed to be convinced he'd go on this murderous rampage for no damn reason if he was still Alpha? Give me a break.

He was a totally competent leader until Rick showed up and took over.... people then promptly started dying. Those are the facts. Indisputable facts.

But nope, everything's Shane's fault.... what a crock of shit.
 
Shane fired off a shot before Carl did, so he's just as much responsible for luring that horde of zombies to the farm. In essence, his service to the group by killing Randall is negated by him firing his gun, thus endangering the group. XD
 
Funky Papa said:
It pains me to see that AMC is penny pinching around considering the show's numbers. At least the visual effects are great, whereas other shows throw them out of the window.
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Do we know if they're pumping up the budget for next season? We need more action damn it. And more locations.

BruceLeeRoy said:
So
Shane gets back up as a Walker despite never coming into contact with any right? Now your apparently a Walker the second you die?
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Yep
the going theory is that everyone's infected.
 
walbertsmith said:
So what do you propose he do? Darryl is obviously a skilled tracker/hunter, and it's not farfetched to assume his older brother would have the same qualities. Would you kick them out of the group for being racist despite the fact their very skills are *crucial* for the group's survival? And is he supposed to step into a domestic scenario that he has absolutely nothing to do with? Shane's not a marriage counselor and he can't just kick out Alan (I think that's his name) because he's part of a family and Carol still defended him.

There's a lot more at stake in that survival scenario than trying to be a social justice defender or domestic disturbance enforcement. These people are trying to survive the end of the world, sheesh.
Click to expand...

Social justice defender? Darryl's brother would have gotten someone killed sooner or later. If you're supposed to be looking out for the entire group, you're going to have to deal with even the smallest problems, because they could spiral out of control. Kick him out of the group? A simple conversation would have been a start, but as evidenced with what happened with him and Rick, it probably wouldn't have done any good.

As for Alan, I forgot Carol was taking up for him. Either way, that type of stuff does drop the morale of the group and cause complications. It started being his problem when it started negatively affecting the rest of the group.
 
Does it feel like the cinematography's better now? The one shot behind the pickup truck at the beginning of the episode, Rick and Shane's last scene on that hill at nighttime with the full moon above. Some cooler looking shots this season.

Or maybe it's just me?
 
WonkersTHEWatilla said:
Shane fired off a shot before Carl did, so he's just as much responsible for luring that horde of zombies to the farm. In essence, his service to the group by killing Randall is negated by him firing his gun, thus endangering the group. XD
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I don't think one gunshot would have attracted the horde. But two? Most definitely.

I thought it was pretty obvious Shane didn't see the knife coming either. It startled him for, again, obvious reasons. Rick should have just shot his ass when he had a chance...

Just one shot and they would have been fine.
 
Forceatowulf said:
Oh this is bullshit and you know it. Macho crap? What are you talking about? When did Shane ever tell Carl to wander in the woods by himself? You know, like a real man would! The fuck out of here. Shane is as overly protective of him as anyone is. He has never tried to instill this idea that he should go around fucking with zombies. Only that he should shoot them if they are fucking with him. Dale got killed because Rick and Lori are shitty parents WHO DON'T WATCH THEIR ONLY FUCKING CHILD. But somehow... that's Shane's fault. smfh.
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Stop right there.

Shane put the gun in his hand in the last episode and told him to keep it.

Shane was trying to teach the kid how to use guns in previous episodes, much to Lori's disliking.

Shane was presenting a tough guy persona that a 9 year old kid would gravitate towards.

Sinister Shane was undermining Super Rick every step of the way.
 
Not one, but two? Reasonable. So, I suppose 50 when they were unloading on the barn was just ignored by the forest zombies.

Love this show.
 
Really bummed about Shane's death. He was my favourite character by far, and with Dale dying last episode, I hoped there wouldn't be anymore character deaths for a while. Shane was a much better character than he got credit for. A good man who made some poor decisions, but still with the best intentions. Too bad he went downhill in this season.

Now I guess I'll join Team Happy Car instead. *sulk*

purple cobra said:
Does it feel like the cinematography's better now? The one shot behind the pickup truck at the beginning of the episode, Rick and Shane's last scene on that hill at nighttime with the full moon above. Some cooler looking shots this season.

Or maybe it's just me?
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No I agree too, there have been a lot of scenes that were really great.
Shane looking at the walker in the field is my favourite so far, and in this episode I liked the scene with Carl and Rick talking in that barn thing. Some good angles, especially on Carl's face, focussing on his eye. When they talked about how he wasn't going to have the childhood Rick had, he looked more like a child than ever.
 
ryutaro's mama said:
Stop right there.

Shane put the gun in his hand in the last episode and told him to keep it.

Shane was trying to teach the kid how to use guns in previous episodes, much to Lori's disliking.

Shane was presenting a tough guy persona that a 9 year old kid would gravitate towards.

Sinister Shane was undermining Super Rick every step of the way.
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Shane has more influence over Carl than Rick, is what you're telling me?

Even if that's true it doesn't solve the fact that Rick and Lori are shit parents who don't watch their only fucking son EVER. That's not on Shane. Period.
Volimar said:
lolwut?
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The zombies are dead but they're still humans. It's difficult to pick up one sound of a loud noise from a long distance. It's much easier to pick it up when there are two. Especially if there are others around you who heard it as well.

That's just common sense.
 
Forceatowulf said:
The zombies are dead but they're still humans. It's difficult to pick up one sound of a loud noise from a long distance. It's much easier to pick it up when there are two. Especially if there are others around you who heard it as well.

That's just common sense.
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They were pretty much around the corner.
 
BruceLeeRoy said:
So
Shane gets back up as a Walker despite never coming into contact with any right? Now your apparently a Walker the second you die?
Click to expand...

Yes.
Theory is right now this is what the CDC guy told Rick. It has been leading up to this for a while with the two cops in the parking lot.
 
Forceatowulf said:
Shane has more influence over Carl than Rick, is what you're telling me?

Even if that's true it doesn't solve the fact that Rick and Lori are shit parents who don't watch their only fucking son EVER. That's not on Shane. Period.
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No, I'm saying that when it comes to certain things, yes Shane is more appealing. When you're 9 and your father tells you, "No you're too young. You need to be a kid." but your "uncle" essentially says (behind their back), "Fuck that. I let you do what you want. I think you're a big boy" yeah, it creates a conflict.
 
Forceatowulf said:
How did Shane let the camp get run over exactly? There were no threats of zombies in their camp until Rick showed the fuck up. They then had zombies falling out of their asses. Thanks Rick!

It's just funny that they were doing relatively well for themselves when Shane ran shit, and then Rick pops up, people die, and then everything is Shane's fault... what a load of shit. The only change Rick managed to make was thinning the group.

And if Rick was a better leader they would have given up on a pointless crusade and it wouldn't matter if she was in that barn or not.

Anyone with half a braincell knew that girl was fucked the night after she disappeared into a forest full of undead. There was no other outcome. A GOOD leader would understand this. But Rick isn't a good leader, he belongs on the disney channel or a saturday morning cartoon show where most of his "morals" belong. Not in the real world.

He might approach situations better, but I know one thing: I rather be right with a shitty presentation than wrong with a good one.

Shane Killed Otis because it was a smart way to save his ass and Carl's. I didn't see him asking anyone for gratitude or a pat on the back...

He killed Randall and saved the group from a potentially larger threat. (which doesn't really mean much now that Carl let off a round and attracted the zombies. WHY DOES NO ONE WATCH HIM)

Oh this is bullshit and you know it. Macho crap? What are you talking about? When did Shane ever tell Carl to wander in the woods by himself? You know, like a real man would! The fuck out of here. Shane is as overly protective of him as anyone is. He has never tried to instill this idea that he should go around fucking with zombies. Only that he should shoot them if they are fucking with him. Dale got killed because Rick and Lori are shitty parents WHO DON'T WATCH THEIR ONLY FUCKING CHILD. But somehow... that's Shane's fault. smfh
Yeah, because that's what he was doing when he was running shit before Super Rick showed up right? He was just killing people at random because they had disagreements?

And when has Shane ONCE killed a member of his group who didn't agree with him? Hell, he could have easily killed Dale out right in those swamps if he wanted to.. yet he didn't. But for some reason I'm supposed to be convinced he'd go on this murderous rampage for no damn reason if he was still Alpha? Give me a break.

He was a totally competent leader until Rick showed up and took over.... people then promptly started dying. Those are the facts. Indisputable facts.

But nope, everything's Shane's fault.... what a crock of shit.
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Holy meltdown batman. Shane is dead. Deal with it.

The facts are Shane is selfish and everyone but Lori and Carl are disposable. It doesn't matter that he made some good decisions or better decisions than Rick.

What matters is, in the end, he died because of selfishness and therefore is an inferior leader and deserves to be dead.
 
Oldschoolgamer said:
Social justice defender? Darryl's brother would have gotten someone killed sooner or later. If you're supposed to be looking out for the entire group, you're going to have to deal with even the smallest problems, because they could spiral out of control. Kick him out of the group? A simple conversation would have been a start, but as evidenced with what happened with him and Rick, it probably wouldn't have done any good.
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A simple conversation? Has a "simple conversation" ever convinced ANYONE about the injustices of such a complex and deep issue as racism? I mean, reread what you just said... Daryl and Merle are unabashedly redneck southern hicks... If Shane had even hinted at something like "hey Merle cutout the racism" then that would have attacked everything that Merle probably grew up believing.

Zombie apocalypse or not, a "simple conversation" is not going to reform a person who grew up believing something so strongly their entire lives.

And again, more important things to worry about here... like dead people trying to eat their faces off.
 
ryutaro's mama said:
No, I'm saying that when it comes to certain things, yes Shane is more appealing. When you're 9 and your father tells you, "No you're too young. You need to be a kid." but your "uncle" essentially says (behind their back), "Fuck that. I let you do what you want. I think you're a big boy" yeah, it creates a conflict.
Click to expand...
When did Shane ever tell Carl to do stupid shit? Shane doesn't even like him using tame swear words for fucks sakes. Now he's the awesome uncle who lets you climb tall trees and stay up late watching horror movies? Give me a break. Shane's only crime is that he wanted a boy he loved to be able to handle himself if his ever watchful parents weren't able to protect him. Yeah..what an asshole.
DeathNote said:
Holy meltdown batman. Shane is dead. Deal with it.

The facts are Shane is selfish and everyone but Lori and Carl are disposable. It doesn't matter that he made some good decisions or better decisions than Rick.

What matters is, in the end, he died because of selfishness and therefore is an inferior leader and deserves to be dead.
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It does to me. It tells me this group was better off without him.

The proof is in the pudding.
 
I think people are trying to see Rick as your typical hollywood leader. His story isnt that of the great leader, it's that of a typical man constantly suffering through a tragic situation. There is no light at the end of the tunnel and there won't be a happy ending.
 
Facism said:
I think people are trying to see Rick as your typical hollywood leader. His story isnt that of the great leader, it's that of a typical man constantly suffering through a tragic situation. There is no light at the end of the tunnel and there won't be a happy ending.
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Also, some people are using videogame logic to solve very complex situations that largely depend on the moral character of the protagonists.

Shane could make a great leader... for a gang of bloody scavengers like the kid he killed in the woods.
 
Forceatowulf said:
When did Shane ever tell Carl to do stupid shit? Shane doesn't even like him using tame swear words for fucks sakes. Now he's the awesome uncle who lets you climb tall trees and stay up late watching horror movies? Give me a break. Shane's only crime is that he wanted a boy he loved to be able to handle himself if his ever watchful parents weren't able to protect him. Yeah..what an asshole.
It does to me. It tells me this group was better off without him.

The proof is in the pudding.
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Sorry, no. When a leader is selfish and everyone but two people are disposable to the leader, to the point of murder, you cannot be better off with that leader over Rick.
 
Facism said:
I think people are trying to see Rick as your typical hollywood leader. His story isnt that of the great leader, it's that of a typical man constantly suffering through a tragic situation. There is no light at the end of the tunnel and there won't be a happy ending.
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He doesn't have to be a Hollywood action hero. He just has to be more George Washington than Roland Deschain.
 
Facism said:
I think people are trying to see Rick as your typical hollywood leader. His story isnt that of the great leader, it's that of a typical man constantly suffering through a tragic situation. There is no light at the end of the tunnel and there won't be a happy ending.
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Which is exactly why I like him. He's the main protagonist, but man is he flawed as all hell.

But that's what I love about him. He's doing what he can, doing what he believes to be right, and he's doing it to the best of his abilities. There's only so much you can ask of a person in this type of situation.

I can't stand team Rick always trying to make him out to be this great leader though. He is anything but...
 
ryutaro's mama said:
Shane's problem is that emotion clouds his judgment and it was emotion that he should have never pursued, imo. Zombie apocalypse or not, I would NEVER try to replace my friend and bed his wife. EVER. Shane's moral compass was suspect and in the end, when his fantasy came back to earth, he couldn't deal.
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You know, he -was- planning to leave (first episode of this season).
 
Forceatowulf said:
I can't stand team Rick always trying to make him out to be this great leader though. He is anything but...
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Agreed. His waffling tends to paralyze the group and he often contradicts himself. His intentions are by far more honorable and civilized, though, which is why people can relate to him (as I do as well). Shane is privy to savagery and callousness, but his decisions make more sense in the context of the world, on top of being more decisive overall. Like Andrea said though, while he's got the right ideas he's got a shitty way of expressing them.

Combining Rick and Shane into one person though... SUPER LEADER.
 
DeathNote said:
Sorry, no. When a leader is selfish and everyone but two people are disposable to the leader, to the point of murder, you cannot be better off with that leader over Rick.
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Sorry, but for a time, they were indeed better off. Whether you choose to accept that is on you.
Funky Papa said:
Reminder: Drive past Forceatowulf if zombie apocalypse ever happens.
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Trust me, you wont get a chance to drive by anyone. Most of Team Rick wouldn't make it to their cars.

Gotta save that old lady in room 420B, guys! Who cares if she's hooked up to a life support machine! It's the right thing to do! WHO'S WITH ME?!
 
walbertsmith said:
Agreed. His waffling tends to paralyze the group and he often contradicts himself. His intentions are by far more honorable and civilized, though, which is why people can relate to him (as I do as well). Shane is privy to savagery and callousness, but his decisions make more sense in the context of the world, on top of being more decisive overall. Like Andrea said though, while he's got the right ideas he's got a shitty way of expressing them.

Combining Rick and Shane into one person though... SUPER LEADER.
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I've always wondered what would have if Shaq and Kobe joined forms.
 
I can deal with a lot of Shane's meltdown idea's. Hell I think they should have shot Randal too. But when you lead your best friend out to the woods to murder him you just forfeit all rights to humanity.

You can call Risk a bad leader if you want but the bottom line is that he's the leader because the others look to him to be just that. Leadership charisma is a motherfucker.

Hell Rick gave Shane several chances to come back to the fold. The scene on the road was awesome. Is he an idiot for thinking that Shane would 180 after the come home speech. yes but he did try. Shane has never once tried to pull anything together. He wanted the power, the glory, the respect and the trophy family.
 
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