Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

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whatevermort said:
What about future disc versions? Will you force this new ending - made by a committee of fans, I'm assuming - on new purchasers? What happens if they don't like the ending you guys have all decided should be made instead?
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I remember a long time ago, I used to play this game called Age of Empires 2. The bombard towers in that game used to do melee damage to make them distinct from other towers. Ensemble Studios released a patch so that this melee damage was changed to range damage. That meant that siege units that usually have a very high ranged armor rating were impervious to bombard towers. That was disappointing to me. Also, this patch became permanent in any subsequent reprints and collectors' edition version of the game.

Your point is moot.

Furthermore, since this is a Bioware game which is supposed to have multiple endings (currently it has 3 flavours of one ending), leaving these God-awful endings in while providing ADDITIONAL endings as DLC won't be seen as a problem by us either. But what you want to happen is that everyone bend over and take it whenever game companies shaft us.

This is not about creativity. The guy who created the universe doesn't even work for Bioware anymore. Video games are a product first, art second. We were promised specifics: multiple endings, our choices having consequences to those endings, and there are even quotes where we are told that there won't be a choose A, B, C type of ending. So, this was clearly false advertisement. Peter Molyneux promised the world and didn't deliver, sure, but was he that specific? Did he set a precedent with any previous games? With Mass Effect, people went in expecting WHAT WE ALWAYS EXPECTED FROM MASS EFFECT: choices.

Also, as mentioned before, no other medium has DLC.
 
Dresden said:
Meanwhile Jacob cheats on femshep if she romanced him and is a total schmuck who gets shot down by a Cerberus grunt. All while Miranda is fighting cyberninjas and reaper monsters and shit. What a chump.
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Seriously. What a total dork they made Jacob. If they are going to make him an old man they should have at least given him a beard or something to spice things up.

Jacob, Zaeed, and Morinth got screwed over. Everyone else seemed to make out well enough.
 
Am i the only one that didnt feel / get the Shepard lives ending? It was just a random breather, that was completely out of context. I didnt even recognize Shep, only some N7 Dogtag for all i know this could be anyone. Did miss anything or is this everything there is to it?
 
EatChildren said:
This is what I meant earlier when I said if BioWare listen to the feedback they won't really get the basis for the complaints, because polls like this completely miss the point.
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I'd hope they get that at this point, but who knows. I kind of hope they wait till the after the PAX panel to decide on anything. I know that's a long time, but I suspect it will give them a more homogeneous sample of people opinions.
 
I really dislike that a lot of people are focusing on the fact the endings aren't happy. I don't think the ME series should have a happy ending - they were in such a hopeless situation that if everything was fine afterwards it would've been just as bad as the awful ending we got already.
 
pizzaroll said:
Why would you do that considering they tell the same story?

(let's not get too offtopic here though)
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The TV ending was one of hope and success. Shinji overcame his inner conflicts (which, to me, the entire series was all about). I really liked that.

EoE on the other hand is terribly depressing. To me, the entire movie felt like a vicious kick in the groin aimed at all the fans that were publicly outraged by the TV ending.

Back to topic: With ME3, I somehow feel like the writers wanted to create a reaction similar to the TV finale of "Neon Genesis Evangelion". But in my opinion, "Mass Effect" isn't the right material for such experiments. Every game in the series was about the struggle of many species fighting for survival. How to overcome any obstacles to form a strong alliance which consists of former enemies. "Mass Effect" is about tolerance, teamwork and friendship. Shepard is the instrument necessary to make all that happen. He's a terrific soldier and and even better diplomat.

So, in contrast to "Evangelion", which was all about Shinji from the very start, it felt terribly out of place that Shepard had to make the final decision about the fate of the galaxy all by himself. This renders all the alliances he forged, all the worlds he saved and all the friends he made completely irrelevant. All the work the player had done since 2007 had no significant impact at all! The other races shouldn't just be bystanders, and Shepard shouldn't be a martyr.

The ending of ME3 in itself isn't necessarily bad. It just doesn't fit the franchise.
 
fateful_decisions_by_macink-d4smnv2.jpg
 
Actually, I'm gonna go all out and do it. I'm going to rank the best Bioware games. Thinking quickly:

10. Mass Effect 3 (6/10)
09. Mass Effect 2 (6/10)
08. Dragon Age: Origins (7/10)
07. Jade Empire (7/10)
06. MDK2 (7/10)
05. Mass Effect (7/10)
04. Neverwinter Nights (7/10)
03. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (8/10)
02. Baldur's Gate (9/10)
01. Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn/Throne of Bhaal (10/10)

This post is canon, by the way.
 
Foliorum Viridum said:
I really dislike that a lot of people are focusing on the fact the endings aren't happy. I don't think the ME series should have a happy ending - they were in such a hopeless situation that if everything was fine afterwards it would've been just as bad as the awful ending we got already.
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I didn't want a happy ending to be honest, and I went into the game fully expecting Jesus to die at the end. Hell, I wouldn't even have been upset if the Reapers had won in the end. My problem stems from the ridiculous star child crap (with which Bioware assumed you cared about the kid on earth in the first place) and the absurd space magic that follows, space magic that doesn't take any of your earlier decisions into account. Not to mention the whole random Normandy flying off in the middle of a battle for Earth's survival thing.

Edit: I still consider Kai Leng to be the worst part of ME3 though, not the ending.
 
Foliorum Viridum said:
I really dislike that a lot of people are focusing on the fact the endings aren't happy. I don't think the ME series should have a happy ending - they were in such a hopeless situation that if everything was fine afterwards it would've been just as bad as the awful ending we got already.
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I kind of expected the LotR style ending, Earth would have been utterly devastated, but everyone else more or less got by okay. Ending with some slow fade of all the races erecting statues of 'The Shepard'.
 
pizzaroll said:
Film revisionism is a bad bad thing, but the way Mass Effect works makes it possible to preserve everything should they decide to go back and change things through the power of choice. Which is like, one of the advertised features of all the games.
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But what about the addition of more choices changing the tone of the choice itself? If you are forced to choose between A and B for example, it could be intended to have deep emotional tension. But if fans are unhappy about the available choices (or think they are stupid), the introduction of an additional choice could invalidate both those choices.

Example:

Climatic Scene

* The main character is escaping with his wife and daughter from a collapsing building. Suddenly the ceiling breaks apart and the debris falls on them.

CHOICE: Save your daughter first OR Save your wife first OR Run away.

If you choose to save one of them first, the floor will collapse and the other will die.


Fans bitch and complain about this, and a patch is introduced. In the revised MANDATORY patch which AUTO-INSTALLS when you start up the game, the choice is now different.


CHOICE: Save your daughter first OR Save your wife first OR Run away OR Use both hands to save both your daughter and your wife at the same time!

This fundamentally changes the entire event itself, and invalidates the first two choices entirely. The tone and consequence of the entire sequence is now revised and there is no way to experience the conclusion in the way it was originally intended.


Thoughts?
 
Foliorum Viridum said:
I really dislike that a lot of people are focusing on the fact the endings aren't happy. I don't think the ME series should have a happy ending - they were in such a hopeless situation that if everything was fine afterwards it would've been just as bad as the awful ending we got already.
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I agree with most of this. It seems people really wanted a happy ending where all their decisions made a difference and the work on relationships actually paid off. I'd have found that too dull,and the prospect of everything getting messed up at the end is much more interesting to me.

It's fine that this isn't the ending people wanted, but that doesn't mean it's bad. I doubt it was an easy decision to destroy pretty much everything in the universe anyway, and I severely doubt that BioWare weren't aware of what they were doing.
 
I would've prefer to see the reapers win rather than any of that nonsensical clusterfuck.

People saying we want an happy ending are morons and clearly didn't read this very thread.
 
Finished it.

Man, fuck BioWare. They killed the whole franchise for me. The reasons have been already mentioned in this thread.

Just wow.
 
duckroll said:
But what about the addition of more choices changing the tone of the choice itself? If you are forced to choose between A and B for example, it could be intended to have deep emotional tension. But if fans are unhappy about the available choices (or think they are stupid), the introduction of an additional choice could invalidate both those choices.

Example:

Climatic Scene

* The main character is escaping with his wife and daughter from a collapsing building. Suddenly the ceiling breaks apart and the debris falls on them.

CHOICE: Save your daughter first OR Save your wife first OR Run away.

If you choose to save one of them first, the floor will collapse and the other will die.


Fans bitch and complain about this, and a patch is introduced. In the revised MANDATORY patch which AUTO-INSTALLS when you start up the game, the choice is now different.


CHOICE: Save your daughter first OR Save your wife first OR Run away OR Use both hands to save both your daughter and your wife at the same time!

This fundamentally changes the entire event itself, and invalidates the first two choices entirely. The tone and consequence of the entire sequence is now revised and there is no way to experience the conclusion in the way it was originally intended.


Thoughts?
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If the character is able to use both hands then the original set of choices is broken, regardless you still have the choice to choose one over the other -- the original choices are still there.

Besides, you didn't state the outcome of the added choice. What if trying to save both results in neither being saved as you lose grip and they both die? :)

Choices need to make sense in the context they are presented in, otherwise you just end up frustrating the players. Like your example for instance -- people will be mad that they don't have the option to save both if the player character seems capable of grabbing both, but if you give them the option to try even though the outcome is worse, it's more suitable.
 
I could have swallowed the Kid/God/Catalyst thing just fine. I figured he was a remnant of whatever ancient, ancient race that created the Reapers, either a VI left behind or an actual dude who'd transcended/ascended/insert sci-fi-thing here. Would've been fine if any of the choices at the very end had actually meant anything.

Just one extra cutscene confirming that the entire galaxy wasn't destroyed when the Relays blew up. I have no idea whether every living being in the galaxy is alive or dead. We know that Relays take a whole system with them when they blow up, but killing every single living thing in the galaxy except for Joker and two random squad mates can't be what actually happens, right? What would be the point of any of the choices? I can't believe that would actually be the ending of the series, but that's what all three possible endings show: all the Relays blow up and then we never see another living being other than Joker and the two random squad mates, and then Buzz Aldrin an undetermined length of time later on what seems like the same planet.
 
duckroll said:
Thoughts?
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it's a little different if all the options are riddled with plot holes, inconsistencies, and in and of itself is nothing more than an extremely lame plot device.

Not to mention, you know, invalidates and deems meaningless every single one of your previous choices made throughout the entire series....in a series that was marketed and advertised as an interactive CYOA in space.
 
duckroll said:
But what about the addition of more choices changing the tone of the choice itself? If you are forced to choose between A and B for example, it could be intended to have deep emotional tension. But if fans are unhappy about the available choices (or think they are stupid), the introduction of an additional choice could invalidate both those choices.

Example:

Climatic Scene

* The main character is escaping with his wife and daughter from a collapsing building. Suddenly the ceiling breaks apart and the debris falls on them.

CHOICE: Save your daughter first OR Save your wife first OR Run away.

If you choose to save one of them first, the floor will collapse and the other will die.


Fans bitch and complain about this, and a patch is introduced. In the revised MANDATORY patch which AUTO-INSTALLS when you start up the game, the choice is now different.


CHOICE: Save your daughter first OR Save your wife first OR Run away OR Use both hands to save both your daughter and your wife at the same time!

This fundamentally changes the entire event itself, and invalidates the first two choices entirely. The tone and consequence of the entire sequence is now revised and there is no way to experience the conclusion in the way it was originally intended.


Thoughts?
Click to expand...

There's no way to make this simple patch and you can't force a player to download DLC so that kind of renders that argument meaningless.
 
pizzaroll said:
If the character is able to use both hands then the original set of choices is broken, regardless you still have the choice to choose one over the other -- the original choices are still there.

Besides, you didn't state the outcome of the added choice. What if trying to save both results in neither being saved as you lose grip and they both die? :)
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But if you support that the original set of choices can be broken and hence viable to be improved/changed/corrected, then you are opening up the acceptance of game revisionism. If you're okay with that, then it means that if there's an unintended boo-boo in a movie, they can fix that for the blu-ray release too! Or if the director realizes that he failed to clarify to the audience that a character did not in fact fire a gun first, he could fix that too! :o
 
Gustav said:
Do we have any explanation for this yet?
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Bioware now actively design on behalf of their devoted BSN audience of fanfic-writing creeps? Thinking about the brainstorming sessions that led to anthropomorphic EDI makes my skin crawl. I'm surprised there wasn't a "gather Quarian sweat" fetch quest.
 
duckroll said:
But if you support that the original set of choices can be broken and hence viable to be improved/changed/corrected, then you are opening up the acceptance of game revisionism. If you're okay with that, then it means that if there's an unintended boo-boo in a movie, they can fix that for the blu-ray release too! Or if the director realizes that he failed to clarify to the audience that a character did not in fact fire a gun first, he could fix that too! :o
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But I support the existence of the original choices alongside the newer ones!
 
Woffls said:
I agree with most of this. It seems people really wanted a happy ending where all their decisions made a difference and the work on relationships actually paid off. I'd have found that too dull,and the prospect of everything getting messed up at the end is much more interesting to me.

It's fine that this isn't the ending people wanted, but that doesn't mean it's bad. I doubt it was an easy decision to destroy pretty much everything in the universe anyway, and I severely doubt that BioWare weren't aware of what they were doing.
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Nah, it really is bad. A series built on choices that doesn't really give you a choice in the end, and in such a short amount of time it makes a staggering amount of plot holes.

Why is Joker running away in the Normandy? Why/How is the partner that was JUST at my side aboard the ship as well?

In Arrival, we destroy a Mass Relay and it kills a colony of 400,000 Batarians(or something). Well, now you just destroyed ALL of them, and Shepherd doesn't even question anything. He likely just fucked over everyone, with whatever survived being stranded just to die.

I don't really want a happy ending, and that isn't the issue most people have.
 
duckroll said:
But if you support that the original set of choices can be broken and hence viable to be improved/changed/corrected, then you are opening up the acceptance of game revisionism. If you're okay with that, then it means that if there's an unintended boo-boo in a movie, they can fix that for the blu-ray release too! Or if the director realizes that he failed to clarify to the audience that a character did not in fact fire a gun first, he could fix that too! :o
Click to expand...

402582.1020.A.jpg
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And countless, countless others.
 
Empty Space said:
There's no way to make this simple patch and you can't force a player to download DLC so that kind of renders that argument meaningless.
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Actually it is. Online-aware games exist, and require you to be connected to the internet to play the game. Such games can also check for updates since you're online, and refuse to run if it is not the latest version. This isn't even new tech.
 
Gustav said:
Why would you make a texture like this? WHY?
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To be honest, given the two alternative costumes are so different to her robot stuff, I imagine they were made for a 'real' female.

So many of ME3's decisions almost seem to parody ME2. Gratuitous skin tight perfect female forms included.
 
Shepard got over killing 400,000~ Batarians pretty quickly. Yet it is the child who he didn't directly kill whom haunts him.
 
2San said:
Considering this:
http://penny-arcade.com/2012/03/14/mass-effect-3-ending-spoiler-warning

I think it's pretty much them missing the point.
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Indeed. I really hate it when people use the argument that we "are not the authors so get over it" as if we're all some entitled crybabies who just "didn't get it". Nobody gives that reaction to Star Wars fans who complain that the last 3 movies were shit and George Lucas ruined the series, so why we all wrong when we say the last 10 minutes pretty much did the same thing in Mass Effect?
 
Moofers said:
Indeed. I really hate it when people use the argument that we "are not the authors so get over it" as if we're all some entitled crybabies who just "didn't get it". Nobody gives that reaction to Star Wars fans who complain that the last 3 movies were shit and George Lucas ruined the series, so why we all wrong when we say the last 10 minutes pretty much did the same thing in Mass Effect?
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Because this new entitlement strawman is an easy and so far effective way to disregard any and all criticism on a product under the guise of artistic merit or some other bullshit.
 
duckroll said:
But what about the addition of more choices changing the tone of the choice itself? If you are forced to choose between A and B for example, it could be intended to have deep emotional tension. But if fans are unhappy about the available choices (or think they are stupid), the introduction of an additional choice could invalidate both those choices.

Example:

Climatic Scene

* The main character is escaping with his wife and daughter from a collapsing building. Suddenly the ceiling breaks apart and the debris falls on them.

CHOICE: Save your daughter first OR Save your wife first OR Run away.

If you choose to save one of them first, the floor will collapse and the other will die.


Fans bitch and complain about this, and a patch is introduced. In the revised MANDATORY patch which AUTO-INSTALLS when you start up the game, the choice is now different.


CHOICE: Save your daughter first OR Save your wife first OR Run away OR Use both hands to save both your daughter and your wife at the same time!

This fundamentally changes the entire event itself, and invalidates the first two choices entirely. The tone and consequence of the entire sequence is now revised and there is no way to experience the conclusion in the way it was originally intended.


Thoughts?
Click to expand...

That only works if you're given choices like that to begin with. Instead, we're left with choice A, A, and A.
 
duckroll said:
Actually it is. Online-aware games exist, and require you to be connected to the internet to play the game. Such games can also check for updates since you're online, and refuse to run if it is not the latest version. This isn't even new tech.
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That is true, but in the context of ME3 it doesn't work that way. Assuming we were talking about a game where this was the case at start you have two option play the unedited game like it was at launch or the one with all the DLC integrated. I know there is one game out there that does just that, but I can't think of it the moment.
 
Just finished this last night and wow... the rage is much more extreme then I could have expected. I didn't hate the ending, I didn't find it good it was just an ending that made me think much more then your average ending.

My only real issue with the ending was the Deus Ex three choices and the Normandy randomly crashing with Liara who was with me when the Reaper almost killed me.

I guess the main thing is how I do not understand how the ending ruins all the three game for people.
 
PinkCrayon said:
Yeah, really wish they had done stuff like that. It didn't need to be the kid all 3 times. :/
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Would confuse new players.

BioWare has their priorities.

eiskaltnz said:
Just finished this last night and wow... the rage is much more extreme then I could have expected. I didn't hate the ending, I didn't find it good it was just an ending that made me think much more then your average ending.
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The problem is that the more you think about the ending, the worse it gets.
 
Riposte said:
Shepard got over killing 400,000~ Batarians pretty quickly. Yet it is the child who he didn't directly kill whom haunts him.
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He does justify the Batarians thing fairly well on the Citadel. He sees it as not killing 400K, but saving everyone else. Which is fair enough I think.

The child could have been saved, if he'd have trusted Shepard. Which is more subtly mirrored later with Ashley's (or I assumed the guy from ME1) actions on the Citadel. The ending and dream stuff was hooky as shit, but I thought they did that well.
 
Empty Space said:
That is true, but in the context of ME3 it doesn't work that way. Assuming we were talking about a game where this was the case at start you have two option play the unedited game like it was at launch or the one with all the DLC integrated. I know there is one game out there that does just that, but I can't think of it the moment.
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ME3 also doesn't have an ending where you are escaping a collapsing building with your wife and daughter.
 
http://penny-arcade.com/report/edit...3-was-satifying-and-worthy-of-the-series-mass

My choices were meant to mean something in the game, but they don’t! It’s all arbitrary! This is the argument that makes the least amount of sense; the forty or so hours before the ending scenes are filled with meaningful moments that deal with your choices.
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Rofl, so the ending meant something because not that the ending meant something but the rest of the game did so it does.

whatevermort said:
Sorry, but that's bullshit. If you read a novel and the novel has a bad ending, do you demand that the writer change it? No. You say, I enjoyed it, but the ending was a bit of a letdown. Same with movies. Same with music, for god's sake. This is entitlement. They finished the game the way that they wanted, telling the story that they wanted to tell. Some people don't like it. That's not anybody's problem to fix; it's the people who don't like the ending's problem to get over.
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Works for George Lucas.
 
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