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[theRizzle]

No, it does not make more sense.

Fifty million units, versus five million, and it would cost more, and take longer, to get on that much smaller install base. It in no way makes sense.

Fifty million people are aren't interested in buying games for a console that is about to become obsolete versus five million people who most likely will be looking for a shiny new game for their shiny new toy?

If you release on PS3 near the end of the lifecycle, you get Final Fantasy fans and not much else. If you launch alongside a new console and your advertising is good, you can get the Final Fantasy fans plus people who would never touch a Final Fantasy game because they are looking for a "AAA" experience on their new box.

 

[StuBurns]

Fifty million people are aren't interested in buying games for a console that is about to become obsolete versus five million people who most likely will be looking for a shiny new game for their shiny new toy?

If you release on PS3 near the end of the lifecycle, you get Final Fantasy fans and not much else. If you launch alongside a new console and your advertising is good, you can get the Final Fantasy fans plus people who would never touch a Final Fantasy game because they are looking for a "AAA" experience on their new box.

How do you explain GTA:SA selling much better than GTA3? Or Halo 2 outselling Halo 1?

Counter examples exist too of course, FFXII for one, GT4 versus GT3. There is no way to know exactly how the 'two' products would perform, however, there is no question it would increase the budget of a game already assuredly very costly.

People wanting it to move to next-gen would logically expect that for every single release, singling out one of the most expensive is illogical.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

I'm slow. I allready know that. I never followed the development, and yesterday was the first time a watched the gameplay video.

Wow, it always amazes me how many people missed out on the gameplay launch trailer on GAF. I mean the thread was plastered on the front page for weeks! (and on many large gaming sites)

Fifty million people are aren't interested in buying games for a console that is about to become obsolete versus five million people who most likely will be looking for a shiny new game for their shiny new toy?

If you release on PS3 near the end of the lifecycle, you get Final Fantasy fans and not much else. If you launch alongside a new console and your advertising is good, you can get the Final Fantasy fans plus people who would never touch a Final Fantasy game because they are looking for a "AAA" experience on their new box.

There's always the small possibility they might target the PS3 and a new console to cover all bases.

 

[Dunan]

I honestly don't care about what the name is.

They can drop the Final Fantasy part; just make the game good.

 

[Kagari]

From this translation it just sounds like he's saying they can't say much about Versus because they have other big games to promote first.

That they do.

 

[BlueTsunami]

If you release on PS3 near the end of the lifecycle, you get Final Fantasy fans and not much else. If you launch alongside a new console and your advertising is good, you can get the Final Fantasy fans plus people who would never touch a Final Fantasy game because they are looking for a "AAA" experience on their new box.

I can't see why this is actually being argued. Releasing Versus on a new console has to contend with console bottlenecks in production and shipping. You've already got a huge install base with the PS3 versus what the PS4 would have even in a year. There's also the fact that porting the thing over would drain even more resources.

 

[RustyNails]

Just put this game out of its misery. Please. It's a moneyhole and Wada likes to make money. At least we'll have some closure.

 

[Kyoufu]

Just put this game out of its misery. Please. It's a moneyhole and Wada likes to make money. At least we'll have some closure.

wat

 

[Meccanical]

Just put this game out of its misery. Please. It's a moneyhole and Wada likes to make money. At least we'll have some closure.

Why does no one make sense.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Just put this game out of its misery. Please. It's a moneyhole and Wada likes to make money. At least we'll have some closure.

In gaming, 'closure' of this kind is giving a big middle-finger to the dev team, and the fans. But specially the people who have spent 6 years making the game.

 

[Beth Cyra]

In gaming, 'closure' of this kind is giving a big middle-finger to the dev team, and the fans. But specially the people who have spent 6 years making the game.

Which would be nobody.

Also the money pit can't be that deep given how recently it went into full production.

 

[Meccanical]

Which would be nobody.

Also the money pit can't be that deep given how recently it went into full production.

You have no idea what full production is do you.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Which would be nobody.

Also the money pit can't be that deep given how recently it went into full production.

Now you're just trolling. Those CGI trailers are done by people, y'know.

Spoiler

Joke. But really, dozens of people must be involved in the game.

 

[Beth Cyra]

You have no idea what full production is do you.

According to Nomura himself the game only went into full production about 2 years ago.

Before that we know only a very small group of people worked on Concept ideas.

So unless you know something I don't, what is the point of your post?

 

[duckroll]

According to Nomura himself the game only went into full production about 2 years ago.

Before that we know only a very small group of people worked on Concept ideas.

So unless you know something I don't, what is the point of your post?

I don't think Nomura said the game went into full production 2 years ago. In fact, I don't think Nomura himself ever said the game went into full production. In mid-2011 he still said he wasn't in full production yet. Lolz.

 

[Beth Cyra]

I don't think Nomura said the game went into full production 2 years ago. In fact, I don't think Nomura himself ever said the game went into full production. In mid-2011 he still said he wasn't in full production yet. Lolz.

What was the whole Pre Production weird nonsense with it being like the are fully working on the game?


That is what I'm talking about, I just didn't know how it was ever figured out how to read the graph showing Nomura/SE's Production line.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Just put this game out of its misery. Please. It's a moneyhole and Wada likes to make money. At least we'll have some closure.

You wanna kill-off the one game that might, potentially, actually restore the FF name to semi-respectable levels again? You realize we'll then probably get a "polymorphic" mess of a project for cell phones and web-browsers courtesy of Wada right?

 

[duckroll]

What was the whole Pre Production weird nonsense with it being like the are fully working on the game?


That is what I'm talking about, I just didn't know how it was ever figured out how to read the graph showing Nomura/SE's Production line.

I'll make it easy for you:

This project is a total clusterfuck and since they announced it in 2006 they have no idea what to really do with it and so have nothing to show for it. Being a total disaster in the company, they have decided to slow less and talk more, so Nomura continues to make excuses and empty promises in interview after interview to try and make the project continue to sound appealing to fans without having to show anything while they desperately try to fix it behind the scenes.

 

[dramatis]

In other words, Versus is what Rising would have become if Kojima hadn't been wise enough to pass the project onto another developer who knew what the hell they were doing.

 

[duckroll]

In other words, Versus is what Rising would have become if Kojima hadn't been wise enough to pass the project onto another developer who knew what the hell they were doing.

I think Versus is probably more comparable to The Last Guardian at this point.

Spoiler

Lol.

 

[Kyoufu]

I don't think it's in trouble. It suffered from Toriyama's team needing code monkeys to get XIII out the door, the massive feature list, the real location setting and Nomura overseeing a billion other projects at the same time.

 

[duckroll]

I don't think it's in trouble. It suffered from Toriyama's team needing code monkeys to get XIII out the door, the massive feature list, the real location setting and Nomura overseeing a billion other projects at the same time.

I totally believed this 2 years ago. I no longer believe it today.

 

[sublimit]

I'll make it easy for you:

This project is a total clusterfuck and since they announced it in 2006 they have no idea what to really do with it and so have nothing to show for it. Being a total disaster in the company, they have decided to slow less and talk more, so Nomura continues to make excuses and empty promises in interview after interview to try and make the project continue to sound appealing to fans without having to show anything while they desperately try to fix it behind the scenes.

Someone is seriously pissed off.

 

[Beth Cyra]

I totally believed this 2 years ago. I no longer believe it today.

Why?

Is it because he still has yet to show off the title?

 

[Kyoufu]

I totally believed this 2 years ago. I no longer believe it today.

I'll continue believing for you!

 

[duckroll]

Why?

Is it because he still has yet to show off the title?

Because all the logical acceptable excuses ran out more than a year ago.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

In other words, Versus is what Rising would have become if Kojima hadn't been wise enough to pass the project onto another developer who knew what the hell they were doing.

Except Rising looks far less compelling and interesting than the mainline, numbered entries, while the opposite seems to be true for Versus. :/

I don't think it's in trouble. It suffered from Toriyama's team needing code monkeys to get XIII out the door, the massive feature list, the real location setting and Nomura overseeing a billion other projects at the same time.

Pretty much this. I blame Wada and Toriyama.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Because all the logical acceptable excuses ran out more than a year ago.

I guess.

I still have faith in Nomura. To me he is a proven director who has been able to do alot of great stuff.

Then again alot of people say the same thing about Matsuno and XII broke him, so it's possible it happened with Nomura and Vs.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

I guess.

I still have faith in Nomura. To me he is a proven director who has been able to do alot of great stuff.

Then again alot of people say the same thing about Matsuno and XII broke him, so it's possible it happened with Nomura and Vs.

To be fair, I think it's more like SE's management broke him. I kinda hated XII, but I'd love to try Matsuno's uncompromised version.

 

[Kyoufu]

I don't know how long the wait for XII was, but in the end, it was worth all of it. Hoping for the same here.

I mean, we can't take this project lightly because if it were not for Versus XIII, we would have had KH3 by now, and you know Nomura is just dying to make KH3.

 

[Beth Cyra]

To be fair, I think it's more like SE's management broke him. I kinda hated XII, but I'd love to try Matsuno's uncompromised version.

Dealing with Managment is part of developing a game, besides I have yet to here a decent argument that SE Managment treated him badly besides the Myth that Vaan was forced on him and somehow a character change broke a professional of Matsuno's level.

That and why he would come back for Tactics Ogre after they treated him so badly.

 

[Kagari]

I don't know how long the wait for XII was, but in the end, it was worth all of it. Hoping for the same here.

I mean, we can't take this project lightly because if it were not for Versus XIII, we would have had KH3 by now, and you know Nomura is just dying to make KH3.

5 years.

 

[duckroll]

To be fair, I think it's more like SE's management broke him. I kinda hated XII, but I'd love to try Matsuno's uncompromised version.

I don't think this is really substantiated. I would love to believe that Matsuno had this great idea, but the company kept telling him no and undermining him, and then he quit in rage, resulting in other people picking up the pieces and making what "the company" wanted.

But based on what Matsuno himself has said about the issue, it doesn't really seem to be the case. It does seem that project got too overwhelming for him, he became unwell and eventually resigned, and other people had to take over and finish the game to the best of their ability and fill the gaps which he left unfinished.

When creators leave because they don't agree with the vision of a company, it's usually pretty clear. The fact that Matsuno was willing to work with Square Enix as a contractor for Tactics Ogre PSP, and the fact that the company was willing to work with him again, definitely indicates that he didn't ragequit FFXII due to unreasonable demands.

Matsuno is also not the only person involved in the project, nor the only talent behind all his games. There are several leads who have worked with him on many projects prior to FFXII. Most of them are still at Square Enix, and many of them worked with him again on Tactics Ogre. If the project was "taken away" from Matsuno, I definitely think we would have seen a greater division in the production, with more people leaving the company in protest. But none of that happened.

 

[cyborg009]

I think Versus is probably more comparable to The Last Guardian at this point.

Spoiler

Lol.

But we actually saw gameplay

I remember late 2011 Nomura said the game finally went to full production

 

[Beth Cyra]

But we actually saw gameplay

I remember late 2011 Nomura said the game finally went to full production

Not Full. I made the same stupid mistake because I remembered Nomura's graph about how SE production works and being really confused over it .

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Dealing with Managment is part of developing a game, besides I have yet to here a decent argument that SE Managment treated him badly besides the Myth that Vaan was forced on him and somehow a character change broke a professional of Matsuno's level.

That and why he would come back for Tactics Ogre after they treated him so badly.

We'll probably never really know what happened behind closed doors. When you look at Matsuno's track record though, it's hard to believe that he made a game that feels as incomplete and inconsistent as FFXII without dealing with pressures not normally present in a typical and acceptable game developing environment. It's all speculation though so who knows. What I do know for sure is that I was severely disappointed by FFXII which is uncharacteristic of both Matsuno games, (and at the time) FF games.

 

[Kyoufu]

5 years.

I was lucky that most of those 5 years I actually spent playing XI.

 

[Beth Cyra]

We'll probably never really know what happened behind closed doors. When you look at Matsuno's track record though, it's hard to believe that he made a game that feels as incomplete and inconsistent as FFXII without dealing with pressures not normally present in a typical and acceptable game developing environment.

Actually that feels like exactly what happened.

The first and last sections of the game really do have a Matsuno taste to me honestly. It's only the middle section that seems lacking and as I've said before I refuse to believe that someone on Matsuno's level rage quit but delayed it for over two years and Vaan's switch from side character to lead.

 

[duckroll]

We'll probably never really know what happened behind closed doors. When you look at Matsuno's track record though, it's hard to believe that he made a game that feels as incomplete and inconsistent as FFXII without dealing with pressures not normally present in a typical and acceptable game developing environment.

Or maybe the game feels incomplete and inconsistent because he couldn't finish the game and other people had to finish it? Which is... what happened.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Or maybe the game feels incomplete and inconsistent because he couldn't finish the game and other people had to finish it? Which is... what happened.

That very well might be the case. But, it's not like all the other big projects at SE have been smooth sailing as of late. The development times and quality of multiple games have been ridiculous. (In a bad way.) This makes me think there are some serious management issues, so it's not far-fetched to think that XII might have been hindered cause of poor leadership. How far up the shitty leadership reaches, we'll probably never know for sure.

 

[duckroll]

That very well might be the case. But, it's not like all the other big projects at SE have been smooth sailing as of late. The development times and quality of multiple games have been ridiculous. (In a bad way.) This makes me think there are some serious management issues, so it's not far-fetched to think that XII might have been hindered cause of poor leadership. How far up the shitty leadership reaches, we'll probably never know for sure.

Matsuno was the producer, director, and writer of FFXII while he was on the project. If there was shitty management (and there definitely was) on the project, he was part of it.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Or maybe the game feels incomplete and inconsistent because he couldn't finish the game and other people had to finish it? Which is... what happened.

The conspiracy theories of a man fighting against the power sound more fun though!

 

[Beth Cyra]

That very well might be the case. But, it's not like all the other big projects at SE have been smooth sailing as of late. The development times and quality of multiple games have been ridiculous. (In a bad way.) This makes me think there are some serious management issues, so it's not far-fetched to think that XII might have been hindered cause of poor leadership. How far up the shitty leadership reaches, we'll probably never know for sure.

What games have had serious issues that couldn't be directed at the Director?

Certainly there are some issues with people getting directors to do their damn jobs.

However many games have come and gone that and I haven't seen nearly the issues that sufaced with Matsuno and Toriyama when handed large projects.

I guess XIV but that again seems very much on the Director and Team and not someone forcing problems from above.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Matsuno was the producer, director, and writer of FFXII while he was on the project. If there was shitty management (and there definitely was) on the project, he was part of it.

That's a plausible assumption, but if he was a part of the problem (or caught up/forced into it), it clearly didn't start and end with him. SE hasn't exactly hit home-runs with their big releases this gen.

What games have had serious issues that couldn't be directed at the Director?

Certainly there are some issues with people getting directors to do their damn jobs.

However many games have come and gone that and I haven't seen nearly the issues that sufaced with Matsuno and Toriyama when handed large projects.

I guess XIV but that again seems very much on the Director and Team and not someone forcing problems from above.

Things like ridiculous deadlines, budgets with strings attached, creative differences could have all been happening behind closed doors. Again, I'm not saying this happened with XII for sure, but given SE's output this gen, and Matsuno's track-record, I have to wonder.

 

[BlackJace]

Maybe they're just trying to make the game as perfect as they can get it. I'm pretty sure Square knows that this game will be the make-it or break it of the franchise.

If it takes a hell of a long time for the game to release in order for it to be a great game, then by all means they can take their time.

As soon as I saw the fight and gameplay trailers, I knew Versus would be my dream game... I can wait a bit longer.

 

[Beth Cyra]

That's a plausible assumption, but if he was a part of the problem (or caught up/forced into it), it clearly didn't start and end with him. SE hasn't exactly hit home-runs with their big releases this gen.

When have they had a miss that didn't involve Toriyama or a group who made design decisions for a MMO that were nothing short of stupid?

Granted Wada green lighting XIII-2 and allowing or asking Nomura to work on like 30 projects is stupid.

However aside from that They have released at least 10 titles that, all with decent budgets that didn't seem to have a tenth of the last three main FF's.

Maybe they're just trying to make the game as perfect as they can get it. I'm pretty sure Square knows that this game will be the make-it or break it of the franchise.

If it takes a hell of a long time for the game to release in order for it to be a great game, then by all means they can take their time.

As soon as I saw the fight and gameplay trailers, I knew Versus would be my dream game... I can wait a bit longer.

The fact that they allowed XIII-2 and XIV 2.0 to even be made makes me highly doubt they believe Vs XIII is Make or Break anything.

 

[cyborg009]

Maybe they're just trying to make the game as perfect as they can get it. I'm pretty sure Square knows that this game will be the make-it or break it of the franchise.

If it takes a hell of a long time for the game to release in order for it to be a great game, then by all means they can take their time.

As soon as I saw the fight and gameplay trailers, I knew Versus would be my dream game... I can wait a bit longer.

Looking at the gameplay now it looks kinda dated... but I'm sure that won't be the case whenever the hell it releases.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

When have they had a miss that didn't involve Toriyama or a group who made design decisions for a MMO that were nothing short of stupid?

Why on earth would these examples not be taken into consideration? They were, massive, super hyped-up projects that dragged their flagship title's brand through the mud. I don't think these are duds that you can just gloss over.

 

[duckroll]

Things like ridiculous deadlines, budgets with strings attached, creative differences could have all been happening behind closed doors. Again, I'm not saying this happened with XII for sure, but given SE's output this gen, and Matsuno's track-record, I have to wonder.

Here's a better question though. Does anything in Matsuno's track record indicate that he was fully capable and prepared to manage a huge revolutionary mainline FF game and lead a team of over 100 people?

 

[Meccanical]

Looking at the gameplay now it looks kinda dated... but I'm sure that won't be the case whenever the hell it releases.

Well you gotta keep in mind what they showed of the battle system was the bare minimum stuff.

Attacks and magic.

We still don't know what EX-Arts are or how they work, we don't know how summons work, and we don't know how character growth factors into the flow of battles.