Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

Status
Not open for further replies.
Galactic Fork said:
It's not that the indoct theory is saying it's a dream. It's mental battle between Harbinger and Shepard that is resolved by your choices during it.
Click to expand...
However you frame it, it's still a dream. And the main plot still goes unresolved.

I don't WANT ending DLC, I just think there is going to be ending DLC, because of how the ending played out and the rubble, plus it would be more reason for people who bought used copies to buy an online pass. It's not a good thing, it's a dick move on EA and Bioware's part if true.
Click to expand...
I agree with you there. If they do come out with the ending, I'll just watch it on youtube.
 
Gustav said:
It's not meaningless when considering genocide (the topic at hand). Can you truly kill something that is not alive but only self aware?
Click to expand...

If you can seperate being self aware and being alive to that extent that you can justify genocide of self aware creatures because they don't fit your narrow definition of life, then you are merely searching for a way to justify atrocity, not adding anything useful to the definition of life.
 
Cagey said:
It's not that the Indoctrination Theory is incorrect because it's bad. I mean, I think it's bad, but that's not why it's not the truth.

It's incorrect because all of the leaked statements from BioWare, including the infamous LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE behind-the-scenes bullshit, strongly suggests that they intended this ending and nothing more.

That's the problem here. There needs to be some sort of proof that the ending was intended this way, not simply that it Makes Sense. Of course it makes sense. Anything would make more sense than the Mystical Starchild and his Lucky Charms Rainbow Gun. Just because an alternate theory is sensible, though, doesn't demonstrate intent from the writer that it was, in fact, the intended result.
Click to expand...

There's the Perfect red ending with shepard alive, suddenly being back in London. Plus some of the weird tweets from the Bioware staff.
 
ElectricBlue187 said:
If you can seperate being self aware and being alive to that extent that you can justify genocide of self aware creatures because they don't fit your narrow definition of life, then you are merely searching for a way to justify atrocity, not adding anything useful to the definition of life.
Click to expand...

Yeah, whatever duder. Hope your iPhone 8 never runs out of battery or you may get into serious ethical troubles.
 
Gustav said:
If it indeed is one of the traits that constitute life, then plants can not be alive because they don't think. It's your logic. You should rethink (pun intended) that.




Fission and self organized enzymatic cycles.
Click to expand...

I asked for non-scientific terms. With current rules that exist to term life you are highly limited if you ever encounter something new down the road. If one was to really apply those exact same rules to the Geth you would find they fit without any issue whatsoever. They reproduce maybe not through fission, but they do reproduce and they do have metabolic process they are just electrically based not chemically based.
 
Vyse The Legend said:
And committing genocide by destroying all synthetics, including the Geth and EDI, is any better? You're no better than the Reapers there -- and you're playing God, just the same.
Click to expand...

The geth didnt become individualistic in my playthrough and Edi is a singular entity.

You can rebuild the geth. They are machines.
 
Empty Space said:
I asked for non-scientific terms. With current rules that exist to term life you are highly limited if you ever encounter something new down the road. If one was to really apply those exact same rules to the Geth you would find they fit without any issue whatsoever. They reproduce maybe not through fission, but they do reproduce and they do have metabolic process they are just electrically based not chemically based.
Click to expand...

We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Edit: Let me rephrase. We'll cross that bridge IF we get there.
 
Gustav said:
It's not meaningless when considering genocide (the topic at hand). Can you truly kill something that is not alive but only self aware?
Click to expand...
I would say one self awareness is far greater a role in dictating what is 'alive' than their physical make up when dealing with synthetic life forms.
 
bigace33 said:
There are some plants that actively hunt and kill prey. Does that not take some form of thought process?
Click to expand...

Thats actually not totally true.

To actively hunt they would have to have motor function and active movement to seek out prey. At best plants can be reactive sessile feeders. Something like a venus fly trap for example.
 
Galactic Fork said:
There's the Perfect red ending with shepard alive, suddenly being back in London. Plus some of the weird tweets from the Bioware staff.
Click to expand...

The first part isn't proof of developer intent. It's evidence for the theory being a possibility, but it pales compared to LOTS OF SPECULATION etc. One has to believe the theory is the true meaning to even find a way of implying intent from the developer, to the exclusion of all other explanations.

The BioWare statements are all over the damn place.
 
Alucrid said:
I would say one self awareness is far greater a role in dictating what is 'alive' than their physical make up when dealing with synthetic life forms.
Click to expand...

So plants are not alive? Comatose people are not alive? Siri is "more" alive because she at least pretends to be self aware than the tree in your backyard?
 
Gustav said:
So,. because some plants (what plants?) actively hunt and kill (what does actively mean? what does hunt mean?) all plants think?

Also, this:
Click to expand...
Plants like the Venus flytrap. It deliberately lays a trap so it can get something to eat. I'm not saying all plants think, I'm saying maybe they think on a level that we do not understand. Maybe "think" is too strong a word. There are many things we do not know about Life.
 
Gustav said:
We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Edit: Let me rephrase. We'll cross that bridge IF we get there.
Click to expand...

I still fit your narrow terms for why something is alive. I don't know how the Geth reproduce, but they do make more programs or they wouldn't need their Dyson Sphere and it pretty self evident that the Geth convert matter into energy to function and also use it to repair any damage they take.

I'm curious their's a biological race in the ME universe that experienced a singularity are they not alive? Would pulling the plug on their also not be genocide?
 
bigace33 said:
Plants like the Venus flytrap. It deliberately lays a trap so it can get something to eat. I'm not saying all plants think, I'm saying maybe they think on a level that we do not understand. Maybe "think" is too strong a word. There are many things we do not know about Life.
Click to expand...

As I mentioned, a Venus flytrap bites on its prey simply because of a chemical reaction that triggers a "tendon-like" fiber to contract when an insect lands on the inside of the plant.

Its the same reason why you can poke it with a toothpick or a piece of dooky and it will close just the same.


Edit: I focused on Zoology in college, not Botany. It might be pressure, I dont recall.
 
Hey look, an editorial that sums up my feelings on the RETAKE MASS EFFECT 3 movement! "Games are art" believers, prepare to explore the hypocrisy in your very own self!

http://badassdigest.com/2012/03/14/...e-annie-wilkes-is-the-patron-saint-of-fandom/

Video game fans clamor and cry for games to be considered art. Well guess what, guys? Art is the result of a vision, and the vision is not yours. It's the vision of the creators of the game. You don't have to like that vision, but it is what it is.

Here's the cold, hard reality: Mass Effect doesn't belong to you. It belongs to the writers and the designers at BioWare. If you don't like what they did with this story, then feel free to stop consuming their product. But you don't have the right to demand that they bend to your whims and change the story they wanted to tell because it didn't make you happy. That's the ultimate sort of entitled childishness that gives fan communities a bad name.
Click to expand...
 
bigace33 said:
Plants like the Venus flytrap. It deliberately lays a trap so it can get something to eat. I'm not saying all plants think, I'm saying maybe they think on a level that we do not understand. Maybe "think" is too strong a word. There are many things we do not know about Life.
Click to expand...

The venus flytrap doesn't lay a trap. It naturally sits open with the sticky thing on the end of its needle active because its supposed to be not because it chooses this. It never plans to do any of these thing they simply happen because it grows that way. It does not choose to grow in this manner it just does. Everything a plant does is they evolved that way and not because they choose it. The plant has no idea what is going on.
 
90sRobots said:
Hey look, an editorial that sums up my feelings on the RETAKE MASS EFFECT 3 movement! "Games are art" believers, prepare to explore the hypocrisy in your very own self!

http://badassdigest.com/2012/03/14/...e-annie-wilkes-is-the-patron-saint-of-fandom/
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure on the whole 'ME is Biowares story and not ours' when they've said how much the story of ME is ours as well as theirs in interviews and such and how they always take feedback etc to improve. Didn't Casey Hudson say in one interview that ME3 is a collaboration between players and developers?

And lol, that piece ends up going back to the 'you so entitled grrr!' argument that they all do.
 
Gustav said:
So plants are not alive? Comatose people are not alive? Siri is "more" alive because she at least pretends to be self aware than the tree in your backyard?
Click to expand...
I never said that. When dealing with mechanical, digital or synthetic life becoming sentient the fact that they're self aware holds more weight than what they're made of.
 
I have been a gamer for over 20 years and not once have I ever wanted video games to be proclaimed as "art". I see video games as nothing more than a piece of mainstream entertainment in a similar vein to "America Has Talent" and I am pretty sure anyone with an ounce of intelligence would never class the "got talent" shows as art.
 
BannedEpisode said:
As I mentioned, a Venus flytrap bites on its prey simply because of a chemical reaction that triggers a "tendon-like" fiber to contact when an insect lands on the inside of the plant.

Its the same reason why you can poke it with a toothpick or a piece of dooky and it will close just the same.


Edit: I focused on Zoology in college, not Botany. It might be pressure, I dont recall.
Click to expand...
Ah ok, but from my understanding it "bites" on things because it is trying to feed. It doesn't have eyes so I guess anything that would trigger it's trap is game. As far as AI being life, I don't think so. It is an artificial form of life regardless of how intelligent or aware it may be. Which means it has it's limits, it could never go as far as true sentient life. :p
 
CharmingCharlie said:
I have been a gamer for over 20 years and not once have I ever wanted video games to be proclaimed as "art". I see video games as nothing more than a piece of mainstream entertainment in a similar vein to "America Has Talent" and I am pretty sure anyone with an ounce of intelligence would never class the "got talent" shows as art.
Click to expand...

I'm honestly struggling to understand how that comparison makes any sense at all.
 
CharmingCharlie said:
I have been a gamer for over 20 years and not once have I ever wanted video games to be proclaimed as "art". I see video games as nothing more than a piece of mainstream entertainment in a similar vein to "America Has Talent" and I am pretty sure anyone with an ounce of intelligence would never class the "got talent" shows as art.
Click to expand...

I kind of equate them to movies: some can be absolute trash while others can be works of art.
 
Cagey said:
It's not that the Indoctrination Theory is incorrect because it's bad. I mean, I think it's bad, but that's not why it's not the truth.

It's incorrect because all of the leaked statements from BioWare, including the infamous LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE behind-the-scenes bullshit, strongly suggests that they intended this ending and nothing more.

That's the problem here. There needs to be some sort of proof that the ending was intended this way, not simply that it Makes Sense. Of course it makes sense. Anything would make more sense than the Mystical Starchild and his Lucky Charms Rainbow Gun. Just because an alternate theory is sensible, though, doesn't demonstrate intent from the writer that it was, in fact, the intended result.
Click to expand...

Death of the author and all that, Bioware's intentions don't preclude people from making their own interpretations based on the actual source material.
 
I must just not value synthetic life as much as organic life.

Im a mechanical space racist I guess. Dont get me wrong I have plenty of robot friends! EDI and Legion are my concensus forever.

But hey, if it comes down to them taking one for the team to permanently stop the reapers?

So be it. Besides, I'm pretty sure the Geth can be reproduced to some degree and like I said, EDI is a singular entity.
 
bigace33 said:
Plants like the Venus flytrap. It deliberately lays a trap so it can get something to eat. I'm not saying all plants think, I'm saying maybe they think on a level that we do not understand. Maybe "think" is too strong a word. There are many things we do not know about Life.
Click to expand...

this is my angle to the Reapers. We "think" that we know what they are doing is wrong, but it may actually be justifiable in a greater cyclical type of way that is too grand for humans to comprehend. This is why i don't find the reveal at the end that crazy. i just didn't like the spacekid.
 
CharmingCharlie said:
I saw this today on deviant art and having read through it I kinda like it :-

http://arkis.deviantart.com/art/Mass-Effect-3-Alternate-Endings-SPOILERS-289902125

It isn't a perfect ending but I would have been more than satisfied if this had been the ending.
Click to expand...

I would have liked that style of ending alot.

Since the protheans weren't the original designers of the crucible I was kinda hoping it was a reaper plant to trick organic races into wasting materials/man power into something that was ultimately just a giant thing that sticks onto the citadel.

If the galaxies greatest scientists and the protheans had no clue what it did? Why does it have to do anything?

A trick by the reapers would be infinitely more interesting than LULZ SPACE MAGIC.

Also could have decisions where you deploy people to fight or work on crucible (rachni for isntance if you saved them). If you sent too many valuable fighters to work on the crucible? Reapers fucking win and you literally would have to go back to almost the start of the game for a "good" ending which is beat the reapers. Now THAT would be a real consequence of choice and would leave some people crying/complaining but not because of plot holes.
 
Alucrid said:
I never said that. When dealing with mechanical, digital or synthetic life becoming sentient the fact that they're self aware holds more weight than what they're made of.
Click to expand...

It really doesn't matter, because one can still define the Geth as life even when taking into consideration the current rules that exist for life created by the scientific community. When I was in middle school something had to be based on carbon to be alive, but that notion was thrown out a long time ago. It was absurd to assume that everything in our galaxy evolved from the same base and thus the rule changed.
 
Jay-B said:
I'm honestly struggling to understand how that comparison makes any sense at all.
Click to expand...
ME 3 and America has talent are primarily both designed to be consumed by the masses. Every aspect is tweaked to make them appeal to as wide an audience as possible. They are not about portraying some sort of "artistic vision" they are about making a product as commercially sell-able as possible.
 
90sRobots said:
Hey look, an editorial that sums up my feelings on the RETAKE MASS EFFECT 3 movement! "Games are art" believers, prepare to explore the hypocrisy in your very own self!

http://badassdigest.com/2012/03/14/...e-annie-wilkes-is-the-patron-saint-of-fandom/
Click to expand...


It's funny because Bioware is all about building the content with the community in mind (feedback!) and have said as much. Things like the Joker-EDI romance, Shepard and Kaidan being gay in the third installment, etc. proves that people do have a say in what they want the games to be and their voice will be heard if it is loud enough.

It is a stupid argument that falls in the trap of just labeling the fans as blabbering entitled children, instead of just disappointed fans who expected other stuff. While I don't even consider games art (more like a product tailored to specific audiences) and don't agree with people asking for a new ending, I certainly think they have the right to do so (the right to ASK for it) because Bioware has been open about changing things for the pleasure of their fans. It is a stupid editorial with a very insulting and shortsighted thesis trying to pass off as some sort of high, refined insight.
 
Derrick01 said:
Oh great we're back to the "entitled" part of the cycle.

It's also a good thing I don't consider games art. What say you now article?
Click to expand...
I consider them art. I'm just not sure how relevant that is for a series that's had most of the writers changed around and not even a rough idea followed for how the whole trilogy pans out.

I'd still lean towards the ending being their call, just as it's our call to consider the ending bullshit.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

‘Mass Effect’: Live Action Series Moving Forward. Doug Jung Joins Amazon’s Adaptation Of Video Game As Showrunner
34
462
Punished Miku replied
Should I buy Mass Effect: Andromeda?
Drama  2
88
3K
Solarstrike replied
I Realize Why I Love Mass Effect So Much....
40
3K
chakadave replied
Has there been a jump in quality from 1 game to direct sequel such as mass effect 1 to 2?
2 3 4 5
219
9K
Majormaxxx replied
His name is Conrad Verner | A Mass Effect Appreciation thread [Open Spoilers]
Opinion Spoilers Retro 
4
1K
Ozzie666 replied
Top Bottom