WrenchNinja
Member
Im not advocating any of the choices. Theyre all fucking stupid, Synthesis just happens to be the most stupid.
Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE
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heliosRAzi
Banned
Does this unit have a soul?
Yeah, from that perspective only Control is good. You take control of the Reapers, then... whatever you imagine. They leave the galaxy and just chill in dark space, they help rebuild what they destroyed, or you just fly them into stars and call it a day.
When I remember there were devices that could transform people into husks just by getting close it's SOMEWHAT less dumb, but it's still a really stupid, nonsensical thing. Yet it's the one I'd want a hypothetical ME4 to explore most because how the fuck does that work?
renegade base is closer to the omega 4 relay to facilitate control over the captured collector base.
yes, due to the reaper code upgrade, geth are now thinking as individuals and not as a consensus.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Care to elaborate?
ElectricBlue187
Member
Because it reeks of desperation and dissatisfaction. It's a solution looking for its problem.
all three solutions were "messy". the entire game is about making decisions that could cost you in other ways. i find this interesting. i don't think the 3 choices given to the player were bad...i just didn't like the little kid stuff.
We're missing the ending we deserve, but no, we're not missing anything in the narrative. It's too kind to BioWare to assume that we're just too dumb to get their brilliance.
HarryHengst
Member
Its goddamn Shakespeare compared to what we got as an ending though.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I've elaborated more times you can fathom, but mainly it's a theory for the desperate and the main plot goes unresolved
You let Kaidan back in the Normandy?
Someone is fishing for a backstabbing/revolt/mutiny.
but...but...they couldn't have ended it like this!?!??!
Also if you charm TIM at the end, shepard clearly lays out what indoctrination is, how is TIM affected while shepard isn't?You didn't let Kaidan back in Normandy to have sex with him?
The Super Bob
Member
This is my main problem with it. I just don't understand why they would finish the game with this. I could only see ending scene being an indoctrination stuggle if it wasn't the ending and something actually came after to resolve the story. But it is the ending, so it doesn't really make sense to have done it.
Unless they are going to bring out DLC which is actually the ending, but that seems almost as implausible as the ending we have right now. I just can't see this happening.
I think we may just have to accept that Bioware have screwed us and that we have to ignore the last 20 minutes of the game and just subsitute our own scenes in.
Not sure if this constitutes being alive.
Arjen
Member
Alone??
with JAMES
If you were starting a computer game, and the plot was 'thousands of years ago an alien merged humanity with machines, changing us forever without asking first, to avoid destroying a species they had a personal connection to' it would sound like that alien was an utterly thoughtless, selfish, unethical idiot.
If you were starting a computer game, and the plot was 'thousands of years ago an alien chose to wipe out an artificial species rather than change every living thing on a molecular level', it sounds a bit more reasonable.
The problem is with the choice, and the godlike power suddenly given to the spacechildthing to alter everything. If it's an AI, I can sort of understand how it could affect the Geth and EDI, I have no idea how it could suddenly start altering all biological life. Bizarre.
GrandHarrier
Member
I did not want to destroy my new Geth friends
Acceptable losses to save trillions more and to avenge the countless cycles of genocide reaped upon the Galaxy.
They possess free thinking, which i believe as one of the trait as being alive.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
"theory for the desperate" is saying just about as much as "it is shit" and as for the main plot being unresolved, it's hardly resolved as it is. And that assertion means nothing because one of the points of the indoctrination theory is that Bioware planned to release a further ending later. So it's not that the plot isn't resolved, it's that it isn't resolved yet. With the story as it is, it's not resolved at all and makes no sense and is completely inconsistent with the whole rest of the game.
Calling someone desperate isn't evidence. Shepard waking up in a pile of rubble in London makes no sense with how things are. They wouldn't spend the time rendering every piece of concrete and steel and only put it in one specific ending for nothing.
Empty Space
Member
Did you have the conversation with EDI about Legion referring to himself as I instead of Us? The Geth very clearly reached life.
Vengeance at the cost of another race's life is not okay especially when that races has proved they are willing to do the right thing when their creators weren't.
AdmiralSnackbar
Member
How does this make any sense? Bioware doesn't deserve the "pandering to fans" badge when the fanfiction writers on their forums come up with better ideas.
Would it had been so hard to have the baby reaper not be on that scaffolding if you destroyed the base?
ElectricBlue187
Member
On my 2nd play through I'm at Huerta memorial listening to the PTSD asari commando. I really wish you could listen to the whole thing at once...I did it by talking to Dr. Michel and going through a door and then back again to hear the whole thing. Wow. The asari commando basically befriends Joker's sister and escapes a reaper invasion with her in tow with only a bath towel and no gun. She tries to get to the radio she left but Joker's sister breaks her leg and cries while they are hiding. The asari commando murders her to stay hidden. And that's not the worst thing. Shepard knows this and tells Joker nothing lol
Arjen
Member
That's loco.
and gives her a gun.
Yes. Siri also says "I". Doesn't make her alive.
It's not that the Indoctrination Theory is incorrect because it's bad. I mean, I think it's bad, but that's not why it's not the truth.
It's incorrect because all of the leaked statements from BioWare, including the infamous LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE behind-the-scenes bullshit, strongly suggests that they intended this ending and nothing more.
That's the problem here. There needs to be some sort of proof that the ending was intended this way, not simply that it Makes Sense. Of course it makes sense. Anything would make more sense than the Mystical Starchild and his Lucky Charms Rainbow Gun. Just because an alternate theory is sensible, though, doesn't demonstrate intent from the writer that it was, in fact, the intended result.
AdmiralSnackbar
Member
The control ending is more satisfying if you imagine Sheppard saying "assuming direct control" to harbinger as he forces him to curl up and fly away.
And betray Garrus???!!!
Siri also doesn't think freely, does she?
What is your definition of being alive?
garrus is good for bromance not romance.
do not ingest
Haha. Nice!
Empty Space
Member
Do you have a pet? If you do why do you consider it alive and please don't list me the scientific reason as to why.
ElectricBlue187
Member
Ask her what she thinks of the ME3 ending
You could argue that a lot of animals don't think freely. Plants don't think at all. Yet they are alive. Living has a biological component beyond cognitive function.
While that is true, I said before that I considered free-thinking as one of the trait that define what is alive or not, but not the only defining trait.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Oh, the endings we got don't resolve shit, but the indoc theory takes it a step further and says that the entire ending is a dream
I do not see the purpose of releasing the finale to a trilogy where the main plot goes unresolved. Wait, I actually see the reason, but I find it odd that people want to pay for a DLC ending. That doesn't sit right with me and that's where the desperation comment comes from. I watched the indoc theory spread when it first came up. People wanted to (and still do) believe it just so they can get the "true" ending.
This is Mac Walters we're talking about. He thinks the current ending is like the ending to the first Matrix. He made it vague just to garner LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE. That and they ran out of time because they didn't have an ending planned. He just wanted cool stuff, but couldn't tie them all together in a satisfying way. The indoc theory gives him too much credit.
Empty Space
Member
I had a hamster. He's not alive anymore, though.
Okay... when it was alive what made it alive? What are the things it did that made it a living breathing hamster and not a robot that simply acted out pre-programmed routines. I have point to my line of questioning I promise.
If it indeed is one of the traits that constitute life, then plants can not be alive because they don't think. It's your logic. You should rethink (pun intended) that.
Fission and self organized enzymatic cycles.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
It's not that the indoct theory is saying it's a dream. It's mental battle between Harbinger and Shepard that is resolved by your choices during it.
I don't WANT ending DLC, I just think there is going to be ending DLC, because of how the ending played out and the rubble, plus it would be more reason for people who bought used copies to buy an online pass. It's not a good thing, it's a dick move on EA and Bioware's part if true.
If he's running out of time, He could make this ending, definitely make all the speculation, and have time to finish the game later in a satisfying way. Plus a way to grab a few extra bucks from the used game market.
I do agree it gives them a lot of credit. It also relies on them being dicks, though.
D
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ElectricBlue187
Member
"Alive" is rather meaningless in this context. "Self aware" is the term you are searching for. Legion was self aware when he killed himself for the good of the geth
Between Cheating Jacob, Carth, Terminally-Ill Thane, and Traynor, Garrus is the best romance option for a FemShep! Tali can use Wrex or something instead.
PjotrStroganov
Member
They reached it before the Reapers became involved. The whole geth holocaust was because of the geth becoming self aware and therefore, in my opinion, alive.
It's not meaningless when considering genocide (the topic at hand). Can you truly kill something that is not alive but only self aware?
bigace33
Member
I agree. As bad as the ending stinks, I don't even want them to rewrite a new ending unless it was their intention to expound on the ending in the first place. Just leave this ending as is if this was their original vision. Anything we get at this point would be corny, rushed, and lame. I finished this game nearly two weeks ago and haven't touched it since, if I have to wait months from now for some new ending, I'm not interested.
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