Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest

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For a lawyer, George Zimmerman's father is stupid as hell. These are all effectively statements of George Zimmerman that can be used against him at trial, should it come to that. I suspect Zimmerman's father, having been a judge, feels invincible. He may well be. But stupid he is either way.

Seriously he's digging a hole for his son.

Don't talk to police, don't say anything, have a lawyer etc, but he talked to his father and his father is spilling the beans.

Don't talk to police part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik&feature=related

part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

His father knows better but might think it won't matter because he has pull in the city. I bet he does too, he knows better!
 
I don't think anyone is supporting Zimmerman but it's clear that some people are following this story primarily to critique the reaction and to be contrarians. It's just peculiar to some of us. I'm following this story because it reminds me of experiences that I've had and people that I know have had and I want to see some justice. I just don't understand what is motivating some of you...
Right here...

Maybe people will stop smearing a dead kid for a bit now.
Yeeeeah
no
.
 
So, when you were a kid and you watched Stars Wars for the first time, you knew that Darth Vader's voice was played by a black guy?

When I was a kid, I definitely didn't know that. I made no assumptions until now (except that the voice actor was most likely American.)

To be 100% honest with you, yes.

I was about 6 or 7 when I first saw the Star Wars movies on tv/vhs(that would be about '85 or '86).

I remember getting to Return of the Jedi, and being really upset that it wasn't a black guy underneath the mask when Luke helps Vader take it off.

In either case, I don't think that there is a "black voice," or a "white voice." Living in Los Angeles, I've come across a wide variety of people, with a wide variety of dialects and accents. I don't believe a particular timbre and intonation is limited/exclusive to just one nationality.

I've been mistaken for a wide number of things (including a woman), and even growing up, I was picked on by family and classmates for not "sounding black." Many a "Carlton Banks" joke was made on my behalf.

I learned a long time ago not to assume what someone's nationality is based off of how they talk/how they sound.


EDIT: At Dr.Forester: LMAO. I love that damn scene. I love Chasing Amy in general, but the first half of that movie is some of the funniest stuff Kevin Smith has done, especially that scene with Hooper. lol.
 
I don't think anyone is supporting Zimmerman but it's clear that some people are following this story primarily to critique the reaction and to be contrarians. It's just peculiar to some of us. I'm following this story because it reminds me of experiences that I've had and people that I know have had and I want to see some justice. I just don't understand what is motivating some of you...

Some people just like to watch the world burn. Maybe it's fun to them. They should stick to other topics though. I come to this one for updates. The banter is clouding up the thread.
 
Between this, the ACA mess, and the GOP primary mess, it's time to shut America down. You guys had a nice run, but your country appears to be broken beyond repair.
 
Zimmerman's Dad said:
At that point, he was punched in the nose, his nose was broken, and he was knocked to the concrete," Robert Zimmerman said.

"Travyon Martin got on top of him and started beating him, in his face, nose, hitting his head on the concrete," he continued

Zimmerman said during the scuffle, Martin threatened George Zimmerman's life.

"After nearly a minute of being beaten, George was trying to get his head off the concrete, trying to move with Trayvon on him, into the grass.

After seeing the surveillance video, does it seem to match up at ALL with this claim?
 
Hey I just saw that video. Someone done goofed. I thought he had a broken nose and a bloody head....

Bold face lies.
 
Absolutely.

In bizarro world

PS: Man this case really needs to get wrapped up. This thread is too depressing (though i've gotten used to it)
 
Woah, baconsammy got perma'd?
He's just the most recent casualty of "loving to hear his own voice" syndrome.

This is a news thread, and while rational debate can indeed be enlightening, this isn't the right place to be reliving your contrarian for the sake of it, high school debate team memories.

And now that we're (finally) getting actual news, it's only a needless distraction.
 
I really have to think we're not seeing something in that video. How could they possibly say he had a broken nose with stitches if it didn't happen. There would be medical records. There's trying to bury something, and giving doubters the contradiction on a platter.
 
He's just the most recent casualty of "loving to hear his own voice" syndrome.

This is a news thread, and while rational debate can indeed be enlightening, this isn't the right place to be reliving your contrarian for the sake of it, high school debate team memories.

And now that we're (finally) getting actual news, it's only a needless distraction.


He did the same nonsense in the iPad thread.
 
I really have to think we're not seeing something in that video. How could they possibly say he had a broken nose with stitches if it didn't happen. There would be medical records. There's trying to bury something, and giving doubters the contradiction on a platter.

we'll find out at the trial, I assume. we'll get to see all his wounds, as I'm sure the police took pictures.

I do find it interesting that we see hide nor hair if these wounds that indicate an epic, minute long, MMA-style beating in the video. He looks damn good. No black eyes, no cuts large enough to show up on either police camera. No taped nose. idk.
 
What I want to know is why is this being framed as a racial incident if Zimmerman is a self proclaimed Hispanic? Here in So-Cal we have Mexican gangs that are "ethnically cleansing" certain parts of LA and are killing innocent "civilians" simply because they are black and on wrong side of town.
 
After seeing the surveillance video, does it seem to match up at ALL with this claim?

I will say that I don't think the surveillance video definitively proves that Zimmerman had no injuries at all. I think it does show that if he did have injuries, they were not grievous bodily injuries. And while one need not suffer such injuries to justifiably commit homicide (one need only reasonably fear such injuries), the absence of such injuries does have relevance to the asserted reasonableness of the fear.

But I think that if an armed Zimmerman approached Martin after following him and confronted him about his presence in the neighborhood, as Martin's girlfriend asserts she overheard occurring, then in my opinion Zimmerman can be said to have initially provoked the violence, even if Martin threw the first punch. (I do not know if Florida courts have interpreted "initially provoking" violence in a technical way, and if they have that interpretation would control, but I suspect the legislature did not intend a narrow construction of initial provocation, as the bill's sponsor has publicly stated.) And if Zimmerman initially provoked violence under Florida law, then even Zimmerman's reasonable fear of grievous bodily injury would be insufficient to justify his use of lethal force.

One thing that seems to be fairly well established from witnesses and the police calls, though, is that a struggle of some sort (wrestling?) occurred and somebody was calling out for help. Whether it was a struggle in which one person dominated the whole time or in which both persons had momentum for periods is unknown.
 
What I want to know is why is this being framed as a racial incident if Zimmerman is a self proclaimed Hispanic? Here in So-Cal we have Mexican gangs that are "ethnically cleansing" certain parts of LA and are killing innocent "civilians" simply because they are black and on wrong side of town.

I'm not understanding this question:

It seems like you are asking "why are people basing the discussion of whether this was racist or not based on whether or not he is hispanic?"

but the first part of the question throws me off.
 
He's just the most recent casualty of "loving to hear his own voice" syndrome.

This is a news thread, and while rational debate can indeed be enlightening, this isn't the right place to be reliving your contrarian for the sake of it, high school debate team memories.

And now that we're (finally) getting actual news, it's only a needless distraction.

I did wonder why he was agreement with Trayvon and everything, but went completely counter to that view at several times during the thread, sometimes making me question which side he was on. I eventually figured he was just being contrarian, but I just got used to it.


I'm not understanding this question:

It seems like you are asking "why are people basing the discussion of whether this was racist or not based on whether or not he is hispanic?"

but the first part of the question throws me off.


He's saying only white people can be racist....wait that second part....Fuck it I don't know what the hell he's talking about.
 
I will say that I don't think the surveillance video definitively proves that Zimmerman had no injuries at all. I think it does show that if he did have injuries, they were not grievous bodily injuries. And while one need not suffer such injuries to justifiably commit homicide (one need only reasonably fear such injuries), the absence of such injuries does have relevance to the asserted reasonableness of the fear.

But I think that if an armed Zimmerman approached Martin after following him and confronted him about his presence in the neighborhood, as Martin's girlfriend asserts she overheard occurring, then in my opinion Zimmerman can be said to have initially provoked the violence, even if Martin threw the first punch. (I do not know if Florida courts have interpreted "initially provoking" violence in a technical way, and if they have that interpretation would control, but I suspect the legislature did not intend a narrow construction of initial provocation, as the bill's sponsor has publicly stated.) And if Zimmerman initially provoked violence under Florida law, then even Zimmerman's reasonable fear of grievous bodily injury would be insufficient to justify his use of lethal force.

Would your opinion change if it was confirmed that there were no 'punching wounds' on Martin's hands, as the Morgue Director has claimed?
 
The 911 call. He followed him once. We know they met again. That's repeated.
So Zimmerman was following Martin, lost sight of him, and found him again. That's a pretty tortured definition of "repeatedly." Just because Zimmerman loses sight of his target doesn't make it a new hunt once he reacquires him. (And, yes, I used those terms deliberately.)
 
God...that video is SO PERFECT.

Here's Trayvon's parents being interviewed about the video on CNN: http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c1#/video/us/2012/03/29/piers-bts-martin-zimmerman-arrest-video.cnn

And the video doesn't have a watermark so you can clearly see there's nothing on the back of his head.

Their lawyer: "This is the proverbial smoking gun."

Mom: "This video is the icing on the cake."
thanks for the link. I have to agree with them.
I did wonder why he was agreement with Trayvon and everything, but went completely counter to that view at several times during the thread, sometimes making me question which side he was on. I eventually figured he was just being contrarian, but I just got used to it.
Personally, I thought The Incarnation was the one going overboard ("you're talking about Spike Lee, so you must not care about dead black children).

Baconsammy seemed more procedural/socratic, if anything.

(not trying to backseat mod, just my observation)
 
Personally, I thought The Incarnation was the one going overboard ("you're talking about Spike Lee, so you must not care about dead black children).

Baconsammy seemed more procedural/socratic, if anything.

(not trying to backseat mod, just my observation)

I'm just talking about bacomsammy's posts throughout the entirety of this threads existence. The last few pages I definitely think incarnation went overboard though.
 
After seeing the surveillance video....

Gladiator.gif


The crowd is restless, they demand a bloody tribute! Yet all they recieve is a sack of wet, putrid lies...







Seriously though, this case just gets more fucked up by the day...
 
Would your opinion change if it was confirmed that there were no 'punching wounds' on Martin's hands, as the Morgue Director has claimed?

Well, my opinion isn't that Martin punched Zimmerman to begin with, only that I don't think the video is clear enough to definitively show that Zimmerman had no wounds at all. I think the video is clear enough to cast substantial doubt on Zimmerman's statements as reported by media and alleged leaked police reports. I think the mortician's statements are problematic. The mortician is not a pathologist and is not trained to assess this kind of thing. For example, once a person is killed, blood stops flowing, which means that bruises do not form post-mortem. In short, I'm not sure the mortician is qualified to make such statements. Presumably, an autopsy on Martin was performed, and that report would have much more relevant information about what injuries Martin may have sustained. That said, pathologists (much like every other white collar profession, sadly) are not infrequently incompetent and cursory in their work.

So Zimmerman was following Martin, lost sight of him, and found him again. That's a pretty tortured definition of "repeatedly."

The law says repeatedly. Following somebody more than once, which Zimmerman may well have done, is repeated.

Just because Zimmerman loses sight of his target doesn't make it a new hunt once he reacquires him. (And, yes, I used those terms deliberately.)

Statutes tend to be interpreted very favorably to the prosecution, especially in the South (law and order, you know?). "Yes, your honor, Zimmerman's having lost sight of his target means it was a new hunt once he reacquired him." *Judge agrees.* (If you ever wanted to know how legal arguments in Southern courts work, that's about the sum of it.)

In all seriousness (not that the above is not a serious depiction of a Southern courtroom, because it is), yes, Zimmerman may well have "repeatedly" followed Martin within the meaning of Florida's stalking statue. We lawyers mean what we say. When we say "repeated," we mean "more than once."
 
“Trayvon Martin said something to the effect of, ‘You're gonna die now,’ or ‘You're gonna die tonight,’ something to that effect.” - (Judge) Robert Zimmerman

So a kid with no history of violence and armed only with skittles and iced tea miraculously has a bloodlust and decides he wants to kill a strange man that's been following him? BULLSHIT!!! First of all, this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever seeing as how there's evidence that Trayvon was on the phone with his girlfriend and she's already stated that Zimmerman caught up with him and asked him "What are you doing around here?" and then a struggle ensued. Secondly, the lines "You're gonna die now," or "You're gonna die tonight" have to be the worse (and sadly, the funniest) thing I've heard in a while. It's like, Robert Zimmerman is trying so hard to justify his son murdering someone that he went and made up the cheesiest, b-movie line he could come up with.
 
The reaching some are making to roll with Zimmerman's self defense claim reminds me of Homer chasing that pig he was roasting...
 
“Trayvon Martin said something to the effect of, ‘You're gonna die now,’ or ‘You're gonna die tonight,’ something to that effect.” - (Judge) Robert Zimmerman

So a kid with no history of violence and armed only with skittles and iced tea miraculously has a bloodlust and decides he wants to kill a strange man that's been following him? BULLSHIT!!! First of all, this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever seeing as how there's evidence that Trayvon was on the phone with his girlfriend and she's already stated that Zimmerman caught up with him and asked him "What are you doing around here?" and then a struggle ensued. Secondly, the lines "You're gonna die now," or "You're gonna die tonight" have to be the worse (and sadly, the funniest) thing I've heard in a while. It's like, Robert Zimmerman is trying so hard to justify his son murdering someone that he went and made up the cheesiest, b-movie line he could come up with.

Yea, seriously. Judge Robert Zimmerman should really stop talking. Or actually he should keep talking.
 
“Trayvon Martin said something to the effect of, ‘You're gonna die now,’ or ‘You're gonna die tonight,’ something to that effect.” - (Judge) Robert Zimmerman

So a kid with no history of violence and armed only with skittles and iced tea miraculously has a bloodlust and decides he wants to kill a strange man that's been following him? BULLSHIT!!! First of all, this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever seeing as how there's evidence that Trayvon was on the phone with his girlfriend and she's already stated that Zimmerman caught up with him and asked him "What are you doing around here?" and then a struggle ensued. Secondly, the lines "You're gonna die now," or "You're gonna die tonight" have to be the worse (and sadly, the funniest) thing I've heard in a while. It's like, Robert Zimmerman is trying so hard to justify his son murdering someone that he went and made up the cheesiest, b-movie line he could come up with.

This is exactly what I was thinking. And it's just fucking sad, but I'm sure Fox News and the crazies that watch it will eat this up. Gotta instill that black fear.
 
It really is amazing. The kid sees a gun and suddenly goes 1970s Blacksploitation film thug on him? "You gonna die tonight, blood"? The father really mustn't know how ridiculous and unlikely that sounds.
 
So no cuts or bleeding or whatever...why in the hell was that so widely reported? Seems like everything about this case is suspect, except for Trayvon being dead.
 
So no cuts or bleeding or whatever...why in the hell was that so widely reported? Seems like everything about this case is suspect, except for Trayvon being dead.

If the "evidence" can be torn apart within seconds of it becoming public, what the heck is wrong with this police/legal system? I read that a higher level is investigating it now, but why is there still nothing happening. Just more info comes out, disproves Zimmerman and lawyer's statements and repeat.
 
My only question is how much weight will that video have? I see that the media is going with that as the narrative but is it the smoking gun the story needs?
 
Government dye at birth could end this shit.

I'm so fucking sick of racism it insn't even funny! Never was... just yelling out loud.

We as people should matter first. If it means being all one color so be it. Let's fucking move beyond petty shit and judge people at a human level.
 
I don't think anyone is supporting Zimmerman but it's clear that some people are following this story primarily to critique the reaction and to be contrarians. It's just peculiar to some of us. I'm following this story because it reminds me of experiences that I've had and people that I know have had and I want to see some justice. I just don't understand what is motivating some of you...

Lots of possible reason actually.

"I am better/smarter than them." "I am different." "I am cool." or even "I am bored."
 
Would your opinion change if it was confirmed that there were no 'punching wounds' on Martin's hands, as the Morgue Director has claimed?

there was no autopsy? an autopsy would have all the injuries to all parts of the body on it. not just, dead, gunshot wound.

did Zimmerman get seen by a doctor. taken to the ER etc?

this is shady as hell and i'm 20000km away
 
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