BattleMonkey
Member
Case will be presented to grand jury in a few weeks where they will see if hes indicted and for what charge by the state if any. Then a trial has to be set up if hes indicted
Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest
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Case will be presented to grand jury in a few weeks where they will see if hes indicted and for what charge by the state if any. Then a trial has to be set up if hes indicted
Angry Fork
Member
Well at least something is going to happen. You get the impression that Zimmerman is at home watching all of this unfold with a bowl of popcorn and nobody is doing anything to apprehend him. They're hopefully going to throw the book at him as they should. There's just nothing in defense of Zimmerman.
New excuse is that they were struggling for the gun, Trayvon got a hold of it and said "Time to die" "Well you're going to die now" before zimmerman had the strength to turn the gun around and shoot Trayvon just before it was too late.
Were they taken before or after the cops arrived? I am assuming before.
Big Baybee
Member
lol. Robert Zimmerman is fucking disgusting.
empty vessel
Member
I don't think the standards are really "elevated." By my reading, the grand jury can indict if it finds probable cause to believe that Zimmerman's use of force was not justified under the statute. This might have altered the pre-amendment standard in the sense that a grand jury would not have had to consider that question before indicting, but it isn't particularly "elevated" and definitely not "greatly elevated." It's just an additional question that the grand jury has to address, but the (low) burden is unaltered.
I should add that I agree with you that the statute was meant to give additional protection to vigilantes who kill people. I just don't think the protection it gives is all that substantial in terms of avoiding arrest or indictment.
(Incidentally, the police already detained Zimmerman, which violates the statute unless they had probable cause to believe his use of force was unjustified.)
We've never actually seen Zimmerman's written statement to police, have we? You keep asserting he is changing his story.
Zoe
Member
Unless he's talking about some other tapes, the only one out is the one with the police escorting him into the station.
Err, what did the autopsy say? I haven't heard anything about that.
I'm just relaying what his dad said happened.
The funeral director said there were no defense wounds on Martin.
BattleMonkey
Member
That is how it is here in FL and from every "self defense" shooting that was presented to us. We were the ones who determined if the shooting was justified, and if not, we would indict for a certain degree of murder/manslaughter.
We would be explained clearly and presented with all the State's defense laws, and it's up to the grande jury here to determine whether it applies as a justified shooting. On my time on the grand jury here in FL we also went through the exact same procedures when it came to police shootings.
Outside of the defense/gun laws of Florida and how they are written, no one was ever presented or given some kind of immunity to be indicted. We never were told we could not indict anyone, including the police brought before us.
Which are decidedly less relevant to the case than the written statement. It will come down, ultimately, to what he told the police, not his father.
If he lied to his judge father who's actively campaigning for him, he could easily have lied to police.
I would think any investigation would proceed under the assumption that anyone can easily lie.
Dude Abides
Banned
No, the statements he made to his father are also relevant. They can be, at mimimum, used to impeach him.
I didn't say they were irrelevant, just less relevant in the context of convicting Zimmerman of murder.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Lmao! Man, I know I shouldn't laugh but HOLY SHIT! Trayvon sounds like a comic book villain.
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
Why is his mom trying to trademark slogans like "Justice for Trayvon?"
It seems awfully tacky.
It seems awfully tacky.
Angry Fork
Member
Surprised Zimmerman didn't say he added "Muahahaha!!!" after that.
We were originally talking about Zimmerman changing his story, which it appears that he has. The assertion that Zimmerman has changed his story, the assertion that you questioned, does not appear to be incorrect.
maybe, but at the same time when you have people like Jay-Z doing shit like selling shirts that say "occupy all streets", who knows what asshole is going to try to profit off of this
I think it was to prevent people from making money off his name.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Presumably because her attorney advised her to, so others don't make a payday out of it? Its the world we live in...
Edit: what onemic said.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Seems like a way to keep others from cashing in..
We'll see what happens with that. Maybe it's for a non-profit or some foundation or something? I dunno has she actually done anything with the trademark?
Dreams-Visions
Member
The police told Trayvon's father that when he got shot in the chest he yelled out, "you got me!"
I shit you not.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Meh. She can do whatever the hell she wants, considering. More tacky is the hoodie abuse going on right now. Some of these stiff-shirted politicians really can't pull it off. It's like, yeah, we appreciate the sentiment but damn do you look so silly.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Lawsuits cost money
Meh. She can do whatever the hell she wants, considering. More tacky is the hoodie abuse going on right now. Some of these stiff-shirted politicians really can't pull it off. It's like, yeah, we appreciate the sentiment but damn do you look so silly.
The old man mean mug with a bag of skittles..
You know, I heard that but I wasn't sure that I actually heard that.
This is beyond ridiculous now.
It's a completely unnecessary assumption to make. Either Zimmerman stands by the story he made to police or he will attempt to change it during the investigation. If he does that looks quite bad. What his father is saying isn't going to change that. And in the end this is the father speaking, not Zimmerman. We'll know soon enough.
MightyHealthy
Banned
Thanks for the laugh...
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
Hahahahaha WHAT? Sounds more like a weird action movie fantasy by Zimmerman than anything else to me.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
I still don't see how a struggle over his own gun, during a fight that he triggered can be considered self defense on his part.
If there is blood on him? Yes, they would.
MightyHealthy
Banned
You usually can toe the contrarian line pretty well to avoid seeming antagonistic...but you failed here.
We're allowed to say George Zimmerman is changing his story when he has supposedly:
a) been attacked from behind after checking street signs
b) been attacked after Trayvon openly confronted him ("you got a problem?" "you do now")
c) been attacked and had his head slammed on the sidewalk after confronting Trayvon away from the vehicle
d) I'm sure there's more lies
When Robert Zimmerman can "tell George's side" to the media, in addition to the oddity of a guy like Joe Oliver showing up out of nowhere in staunch defense (not to mention spouting "details" "related to him" by George Zimmerman), those contradicting accounts are ABSOLUTELY up for discussion.
You've been able to play Devil's Advocate, and that's fine.
Just don't tell people what's an "unnecessary assumption" when your presence in this thread has been full of them.
George Zimmerman's Dad Surprised by 'Hate' From Obama
http://www.thewrap.com/tv/article/george-zimmermans-dad-surprised-hate-obama-36625
The originator of the ever changing stories is less relevant when comes to the surveillance video, as even in the original police report, he mentions that he was punched and hit.
His father takes it to the next level and paints a picture that would fall in line with the overall narrative of his son being on the defensive - being on the bottom of the confrontation, screaming for help, and all the while being beaten.
He mentions that the screams of help are the result of him being assaulted in the 'leaked' report, and those lasted for about a minute - which is probably why his father goes on to say "he was being beaten like this for nearly a minute" - but lets say the beating was only half that, and the other half was the supposed struggle - we know that the screaming was the start of the confrontation at least, and the screaming stops when it ends.
That would mean he was getting his head smashed from both sides for quite a while. Just count to 30 in your head and imagine getting assaulted badly for that amount of time. Would you come out looking like he did in the surveillance video? That absolutely does not add up - it didn't add up when he didn't get sent to the hospital, and it doesn't add up when you see that he was completely stable and appeared to be completely unharmed.
With the ever increasing scepticism for his account of the story, I think people are just placing a higher burden of proof on Zimmerman, maybe unprofessionally, but not unfairly.
edit: And on the screaming - it doesn't make any sense. It paints Zimmerman as a fearful law abiding citizen who wants the help of the general public - even though he is the one who was originally at least -willing- to follow this stranger around for a while. So, what, Martin was some cool under pressure mobster? How could a 17 year old not be yelling and screaming too? This is of course an assumption, but does that kid look like someone who has killed before? Someone who is cold and unfearful? That doesn't match with the story his girlfriend gives of the confrontation, let alone the general history of the victim. Odds are, the 17 year old being stalked at night, once spotting a gun, would scream bloody fucking murder - not coolly pronounce Zimmerman's soon to be demise.
No, the screaming really only makes sense when you see that if there was a struggle, it probably wasn't as epic as it is being painted - that would give Zimmerman no reason to scream.
theignoramus
Member
so Zimmerman's story was bullshit, which is exactly what it smelled like when I first read it. I
KHarvey, I know you'll never, ever understand this but I'll say it anyway, we're not logical robots. There's such a thing as "smelling bullshit" that doesn't require that evidence be admissable in court, or within the allowable domain of whatever algorithm you think your brain needs to run (complete with the contrarian.ignore() function) whenever these things come up.
But to respond. If Zimmerman gave his father and the police different stories, which it appears he may have, then he changed his story, and the assertion of the original poster that Zimmerman changed his story is correct. Regardless of your contrarianism, you cannot debunk that logic. Use all the words you want. You did not debunk that logic above, neither will you in subsequent responses.
Zoe
Member
As mentioned earlier, the medical examiner's statement would hold more weight here than a funeral director. The injuries may not present as bruises since he died shortly after.
soundscream
Member
This is a joke right......right?
Here's the vid:
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/trayvon_martin/032812-exclusive-robert-zimmerman-interview
OMG, he was in Vietnam and apparently he thinks this is worse.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
We handled any type of felony, except drug cases. They had a separate grand jury for that, since the laws were all very specific and they got special training for it.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Nope. Saw the father say all of that in an interview yesterday. That's what the police told him.
Like out of a cartoon.
I've got to stop reading comments sections.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
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Dude Abides
Banned
They're as relevant as the jury finds them. A jury may well give more weight to a statement made in candor to one's father than a self-serving statement made to police.
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