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[JCreasy]

Zimmerman's family seems quite confident the medical records will prove his story.

I don't doubt that Zimmerman incurred some injuries. We know they were fighting. Treyvon was even justified for fighting if he thought he was threatened.

What is in dispute is whether or not Zimmerman was being beaten to within an inch of his life. His brother implied that one more hit from Martin would have left his brother brain dead.

The video footage of Zimmerman at the police station is not consistent with that.

ALL of us, including those skeptical of Zimmerman's story, expected his injuries to be consistent with his account. That's why we're all shocked to see the video. When we see Zimmerman in that video he doesn't look bludgeoned.

I mean seriously, look at how someone looks after walking away from a UFC fight. The kind of beating Zimmerman says he received would go beyond that without a ref to step in and stop it. Zimmerman says he arms were pinned and Treyvon was bashing his head into concrete and wailing on his face, FOR A MINUTE STRAIGHT. He should look much worse in my opinion. If he had a single scratch on the back of his head, that would not inform me that his shaved head had been bashed against the concrete. I've had SKINNED KNEES that looked worse than the back of his head.

Also, the funeral director said that Treyvon's knuckles didn't look as though he had been beating on someone, at ALL.

Also, Charles Blow at the NY Times brought up a good point . .

And one last point: fam says that in the middle of all that yelling and screaming we hear on the 911 tape, #Trayvon says... ..something to the effect "You're going to die tonight." If it's you screaming [HELP], he'd have to scream those words to be heard over you...

So yeah, it's just not adding up . . .

 

[ShinNL]

Now that the case has gotten national attention I think a federal investigation is almost guaranteed. I know its a bad idea to bring out this proverbial argument but if clear and concise evidence can be found that Zimmerman racially profiled and potentially killed Martin purely because of the color of his skin he can/will get charged with federal hate crime even if the state level workers won't arrest him on any other charges.

Personally though I would like to hope a proper trial happens within the state and its purely on the case in its simplest form rather then bring out the racial issues with the case. Zimmerman's dad is already throwing Obama into the mix with some of his comments so I really don't want Zimmerman's fate to be decided on the federal level, the polarization over this case on a national level will just be unbearable, its already bad enough as is.

I actually never cared about the race issue, because this type of corruption could've been with any race I think, as long as you have the connections to bail yourself out. It's bugging me more that if these cops really were trying to burrow the case for the purpose of 'helping a friend', then they should be arrested for being accomplices in murder, plus extra penalty for abusing their authority status.

Wasn't it the police department who released the statement that Zimmerman was covered in grass and blood?

I have no clue how that video got out, but it just doesn't match with anything they say. You could try to explain in hindsight, but as it is now it just doesn't add up. It would've made a lot more sense of he did had some sort of visible injury on the video, then we wouldn't be leaning to any side. Before that video we all at least believed he had some injuries.

Determining whether it was a hate crime or not, I don't really see the point in that. Maybe it's because I don't live in the US? Is the penalty harsher than normal murder?

 

[Roger Danish]

Conservative white people notice black people getting upset, and a defense force will be erected by whatever means necessary. "Grounds" for justification will be found, because if minorities ever have legitimate grievances paired with the ability to get attention (human interest story), then the status quo is threatened.

I've seen "sensible" people jump to defend Zimmerman because they don't want to be viewed as siding with the media/establishment. Anecdotal evidence, admittedly.

But Zimmerman isn't white ? He is a minority.... So now what ?

Oh, we're still doing this?

Zimmerman's race is more or less irrelevant. The bottom line is that a teenage boy is dead as a result of racial profiling. You don't need to be white to racially profile. Many of the police officers who racially profile black males are themselves black. Proponents of racial profiling would jump to those black officers' defense just as readily. The white power structure is bigger than one man's family tree, FFS.

 

[Effect]

How could something like this happen in post-racial America?

Post-racial has always been bs. I'll go as far as saying anyone non-white has always known that. I couldn't help but laugh and shake my head when I heard phrase used the first time.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Sorry if old.

Mayor says police resisted release of 911 tapes

Can anyone say with a straight face that the police/prosecutors were not attempting to brush this under the rug?

Zimmerman's family is doing an awful lot of talking. The Martin family and their attorney are talking/bringing in people far too much as well. If I were either one of these attorneys I'd tell everyone involved to stfu - after a certain point I think it can only hurt your side and I think that point is rapidly approaching.

Oh come on. How dare Trayvon's parents attempt to advocate for some sort of justice for the killing of their trenage son!

 

[Loudninja]

Zimmerman's family seems quite confident the medical records will prove his story.

This is coming from people that still insisted that George Zimmerman did not follow anyone or that Trayvon gf didn't talk to him.

 

[demigod]

They can also speak to the EMTs who treated him in the car. We already have the narrative from one of the officers on the scene written later that night.

He could've gave himself a bloody nose before anyone or the cops arrived. Hell he might be one of those people that when they fucked up so bad and are shit scared, their nose bleeds. Since the funeral director says it doesn't look like Trayvon has been in a fight, it makes Zimmerman's story smell like bs.

 

[samus i am]

Post-racial has always been bs. I'll go as far as saying anyone non-white has always known that. I couldn't help but laugh and shake my head when I heard phrase used the first time.

Hold on there, the President is black. I rest my case.

 

[JCreasy]

Ummmm . . .

Former co-worker: Zimmerman lost security guard job after he ‘snapped’

The neighborhood watchman who in February shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was once fired from his job as a security guard for “being too aggressive,” according to a new report.

An unnamed former co-worker told the New York Daily News that George Zimmerman was paid under-the-table for providing security for illegal house parties between 2001 and 2005, but was let go because his anger issues “became a liability.”

“Usually he was just a cool guy,” the former co-worker explained. “He liked to drink and hang with the women like the rest of us. … But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped.”

“He had a temper and he became a liability,” he recalled. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted. … It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.”

 

[Effect]

At this point anything coming from Zimmerman's family isn't going to be truthful. I get they want to protect him. If he's lying to them okay. Once shown that he's lied to them they should keep their mouth shut even if they want to believe him on some level. They can't deny the call with the girlfriend took place. There are phone records. They can't keep saying Zimmerman was beaten because there is video showing what he looked like after the shooting.

About that police video. Maybe someone brought this up but notice right before they leave the car. They allow him to walk away from them (police) and go around the bikes. They walk in front of him like there is nothing to it. This is a person that just kill someone. They don't seem concerned about their own safety at all. It's like they are just going through the motions for the sake of doing them because they know they have a camera on them and just have to appear to being their job.

 

[Enron]

Oh come on. How dare Trayvon's parents attempt to advocate for some sort of justice for the killing of their trenage son!

Interesting that you picked that side to try and hammer me with. I actually posted that after watching the CNN interview with Zimmerman's brother.

 

[BattleMonkey]

About that police video. Maybe someone brought this up but notice right before they leave the car. They allow him to walk away from them (police) and go around the bikes. They walk in front of him like there is nothing to it. This is a person that just kill someone. They don't seem concerned about their own safety at all. It's like they are just going through the motions for the sake of doing them because they know they have a camera on them and just have to appear to being their job.

Looking a little too deep into that. They have said that was cooperative the whole time, he was in handcuffs, and enclosed at a police station.

He could've gave himself a bloody nose before anyone or the cops arrived. Hell he might be one of those people that when they fucked up so bad and are shit scared, their nose bleeds. Since the funeral director says it doesn't look like Trayvon has been in a fight, it makes Zimmerman's story smell like bs.

Medical examiner testimony (usually comes with pictures even at grand jury panels) will be pretty important to the case, much more than some comments from a funeral director

 

[Kettch]

“He definitely loved being in charge. He loved the power. Still, I could never see him killing someone. Never,” he said.

Since it's a 100% accepted fact that he killed an unarmed kid, it might be a good idea to revise that opinion.

 

[JCreasy]

How EMTs treat severe head injury with open wound . . .

- inspect the head for swelling
- clean wound and BANDAGE wound
- extend bandage 1 inch beyond edges of wound
- check heart rate for sign of concussion (which is severe brain injury)
- check reflexes
- Put a cervical collar on patient prior and take to hospital to test for Whiplash
- take subject to hospital for CT-Scan of the head to see if brain is swelling and/or bleeding of the brain.

How EMTs treat broken nose . . .

- pack the nostrils with gauze
- put ice pack over the nose to keep swelling down
- transport patient to hospital for x-rays to determine if nose is broken

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/...-Police-Car-Not-Ambulance-that-makes-no-sense

 

[Dreams-Visions]

How EMTs treat severe head injury with open wound . . .



How EMTs treat broken nose . . .



http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/...-Police-Car-Not-Ambulance-that-makes-no-sense

Ummmm . . .

Former co-worker: Zimmerman lost security guard job after he ‘snapped’

I'm now convinced that this whole story is made up and we're being trolled. At this very moment, Trayvon is somewhere playing Call of Duty, laughing at this shit. His real name isn't even Trayvon. It's probably Mike or Kevin.

It's all just too ridiculous at this point.

 

[Novid]

Until we get any sort of ballistic report, there is nothing anybody can do at this point. And any govermental enity outside of the FBI and Justice department even suggest "other options" must be considered for Zimmerman has to be cenured or impeached for sedition.

 

[CrazyDogg77]

I'm now convinced that this whole story is made up and we're being trolled. At this very moment, Trayvon is somewhere playing Call of Duty, laughing at this shit. His real name isn't even Trayvon. It's probably Mike or Kevin.

It's all just too ridiculous at this point.

Honestly I could see this being some crazy social experiment.

 

[Zoe]

Now that the case has gotten national attention I think a federal investigation is almost guaranteed. I know its a bad idea to bring out this proverbial argument but if clear and concise evidence can be found that Zimmerman racially profiled and potentially killed Martin purely because of the color of his skin he can/will get charged with federal hate crime even if the state level workers won't arrest him on any other charges.

There is no way this is going to be treated as a hate crime. It's hard enough bringing up those charges on absurdly blatant cases of it.

 

[Roger Danish]

Interesting that you picked that side to try and hammer me with. I actually posted that after watching the CNN interview with Zimmerman's brother.

I think his/her point is that you can't draw a direct analogy between the two situations. Zimmerman's family doesn't need to advocate for anything--their son is free. Unless they can produce "smoking gun" evidence, anything they say publicly will likely only hamper their son's ability to mount a successful defense if charges are ever filed.

By contrast, if the Martins did not speak out publicly, this would not be a story; the cops already determined that they could not charge Zimmerman with anything. The only reason a grand jury is going to be looking at this case is because of the public outcry.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I think his/her point is that you can't draw a direct analogy between the two situations. Zimmerman's family doesn't need to advocate for anything--their son is free. Unless they can produce "smoking gun" evidence, anything they say publicly will likely only hamper their son's ability to mount a successful defense if charges are ever filed.

By contrast, if the Martins did not speak out publicly, this would not be a story; the cops already determined that they could not charge Zimmerman with anything. The only reason a grand jury is going to be looking at this case is because of the public outcry.

Funny how everyone conveniently forgets this part.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

But Zimmerman isn't white ? He is a minority.... So now what ?

That doesn't even matter to conservatives. As long as blacks feel some sort of righteous indignation by an authority, they'll jump on the opposing side.

 

[JCreasy]

Funny how everyone conveniently forgets this part.

And that impulse to ask us -- the critics, the concerned, the minorities -- to just shut-up and get over it, points to an overarching arching theme of social injustice that belies this entire event.

There is a certain segment of the population that would like it if minorities stopped bringing up racial concerns ever. EVER! They want to make us self conscious about it. They'll rake the President for saying that if he had a son, he'd look like Treyvon. They'll call THAT HATE! If that isn't PROJECTION, I don't know what is.

Now, it doesn't help when people like the "New" Black Panther Party announces vigilante bounties or Spike Lee retweets the addresses of innocent people (and he has sincerely apologized to the couple for this), but asking concerned Americans to sit down and be quiet about fighting for equal justice is just about the most UN-American thing I've ever heard of. If having your 17 year old son shot and killed isn't a time to exercise your American right to speak freely and demand action, when is?

 

[Combine]

Joe Scarborough has some choice words for some on the Right: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...ht_is_politicizing_trayvon_martins_death.html

"Well, what we don't understand -- I think I agree with -- I think some of us don't understand this," Joe Scarborough fretted on Friday's broadcast of "Morning Joe" on MSNBC. "Like why is it that some on the right are actually taking this up as a cause when as the National Review said almost immediately after it happened, 'This has nothing to do with gun rights. This has nothing to do with the Second Amendment. This has nothing to do with Stand Your Ground laws. This has nothing to do with the NRA. This has everything to do with a guy that's trying to play security cop who was unhinged, who chased down and shot a 17-year-old kid, armed with Skittles and iced tea.'"

"And yet, some of these guys on the right are jumping in with both feet on the far right. They should listen to the National Review when wise conservative thinkers --and not take this up as a cause. But they are and they are trashing Trayvon Martin. It's disgusting," an appalled Scarborough said.

"This is really -- I mean, I wonder if some of these people that are attacking him would like their children's social media pages gone through. This is beneath contempt. And we've talked about this before. This is beneath contempt. And these people on the right, far right, are being fools to try to make this a political issue," Scarborough said later in the segment.

Yesterday, Scarborough said it is "shameful" for "some who have decided that they're going to step out" and say some blame lies with Trayvon Martin for the events that led to his death. He then said those people are stupid and "will look foolish in the end."

 

[TheNatural]

Joe Scarborough has some choice words for some on the Right: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...ht_is_politicizing_trayvon_martins_death.html

You know, it would be pretty ironic if this case goes to trial in the fall, right around election time. I don't know if a timeframe like that is possible if Zimmerman gets indicted, but it would be interesting to see if this turned into some heavy backlash at the polls.

 

[B!TCH]

Ummmm . . .

Former co-worker: Zimmerman lost security guard job after he ‘snapped’

An unnamed former co-worker told the New York Daily News that George Zimmerman was paid under-the-table for providing security for illegal house parties between 2001 and 2005, but was let go because his anger issues “became a liability.”

What the fuck? This is unbelievable.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Joe Scarborough has some choice words for some on the Right: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...ht_is_politicizing_trayvon_martins_death.html

Joe is dropping truth bombs, I see.

 

[TheNatural]

What the fuck? This is unbelievable.

Not shocking, just adds to the history of this guy who has some serious cop obsession and control problems. A wanna be cop who was looking to pin down some action, as noted by his 48 911 calls since 2011. The guy was out looking for trouble to make his mark on, and if he wasn't going to find it, then he was going to make his own.

Another angle to him not being arrested is, all this character defamation over the kid, I wonder if this guy got arrested and they searched HIS house and what they would find. I'm guessing his computer and books probably look like the call office of America's Most Wanted. I wouldn't be surprised with this guy's background history he has notes or info on "suspicious" individuals in his neighborhood.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Joe Scarborough has some choice words for some on the Right: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...ht_is_politicizing_trayvon_martins_death.html

Much props to scarbs

 

[demigod]

Looking a little too deep into that. They have said that was cooperative the whole time, he was in handcuffs, and enclosed at a police station.



Medical examiner testimony (usually comes with pictures even at grand jury panels) will be pretty important to the case, much more than some comments from a funeral director

No it won't be more important, the defense will have to prove that Trayvon caused those wounds.

 

[KHarvey16]

No it won't be more important, the defense will have to prove that Trayvon caused those wounds.

He said the opinion of the pathologist examining the body will take precedent over the comments from a mortician or funeral director.

 

[Akainu]

Post-racial has always been bs. I'll go as far as saying anyone non-white has always known that. I couldn't help but laugh and shake my head when I heard phrase used the first time.

But we have a black president now. There is no more racism.

 

[demigod]

He said the opinion of the pathologist examining the body will take precedent over the comments from a mortician or funeral director.

Oh whoops, thought he meant the person that checked Zimmerman.

 

[Dude Abides]

He said the opinion of the pathologist examining the body will take precedent over the comments from a mortician or funeral director.

The jury may well give it more weight. There is nothing that says they have to, though. Some folks seem to think there is some kind of per se rule that "official" statements automatically trump any statements to the contrary.

 

[Blackhead]

Alien vs Predator: Whoever wins, we lose.

First laugh I've gotten from this story. Thanks for that.

 

[KHarvey16]

The jury may well give it more weight. There is nothing that says they have to, though. Some folks seem to think there is some kind of per se rule that "official" statements automatically trump any statements to the contrary.

You think the prosecution will call the funeral director up there to disagree with and contradict a medical doctor trained specifically to make such determinations? I think it would be far more likely that if there was a question they'd hire an independent specialist to examine the photos and reports.

 

[Dude Abides]

You think the prosecution will call the funeral dorector up there to disagree with and contradict a medical doctor trained specifically to make such determinations? I think it would be far more likely that if there was a question they'd hire an independent specialist to examine the photos and reports.

They might do both. The funeral director saw the actual body. His testimony would be probative.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

But we have a black president now. There is no more racism.

This is true. In Obamaville, he's the only black left...no need!!!

 

[empty vessel]

The jury may well give it more weight. There is nothing that says they have to, though. Some folks seem to think there is some kind of per se rule that "official" statements automatically trump any statements to the contrary.

Right, the pathologist's opinion would be more important than a mortician's observations to me if I were a juror objectively weighing evidence (unless something specifically impeached the pathologist's testimony). But a jury (including a grand jury determining probable cause) is free to credit or discredit any witness and is free to credit a mortician's testimony over a pathologist's testimony if for some reason it finds it more believable and/or probative.

 

[dojokun]

Any news on if that racist comment on the 911 call was ever confirmed? To me that would prove racism on the part of Zimmerman, and by extension show racial profiling. But without it being confirmed, I'm not sure Zimmerman himself was being racist, taking into account the 46 phone calls to police, made about "suspicious" people who apparently were all sorts of races, and also his history of mentoring black kids.

The response from society, however, (police, media, everyday people commenting) has shown some racist attitudes.

 

[GungHo]

They're claiming that he was cleaned up the night of and then went to the hospital the next day, but by then too much time had passed to treat it.

So they didn't reset his nose and he didn't look like a panda? And there were no scrapes or other cuts on his head after it was slammed around on the pavement?

Look, it's not a part of my past I'm proud of, but I'm pretty well aware of what people look like after they've been in a street fight. It's even more obvious if they were the ones that took the beating. I'm not saying the guy should look like an uncooked hamburger, but unless the guy is Wolverine, water doesn't wash that off.

 

[HeySeuss]

First off, I want to say that I don't believe Zimmermans account of events and I can't believe he wasn't arrested pending the investigation. Secondly, the police department have failed on every single way they could have. I mean, they gave Zimmerman his gun back for fucks sake. Unbelievable.

Now having said that, the only affirmative defense would be if Treyton was on top of him and saw the gun in Zimmermans waistline(or wherever it was) and tried to grab the gun. It could then be argued that he was in fear for his life. Other than that, Zimmerman comes off as a wannabe cop who deserves to be in jail.

 

[KHarvey16]

They might do both. The funeral director saw the actual body. His testimony would be probative.

But the defense would hammer on his lack of expertise and would be sure to have the pathologist explain why the untrained eye could come to the wrong conclusion. Of course all of this assuming the autopsy shows Trayvon was in some kind of struggle. If it doesn't the whole discussion becomes pretty moot.

 

[LosDaddie]

Joe is dropping truth bombs, I see.

But he's on MSNBC. Nobody will even know he said it

 

[Dreams-Visions]

But he's on MSNBC. Nobody will even know he said it

was actually my very first thought. he's preaching to the choir on MSNBC.

 

[Miggytronz]

Any news on if that racist comment on the 911 call was ever confirmed? To me that would prove racism on the part of Zimmerman, and by extension show racial profiling. But without it being confirmed, I'm not sure Zimmerman himself was being racist, taking into account the 46 phone calls to police, made about "suspicious" people who apparently were all sorts of races, and also his history of mentoring black kids.

The response from society, however, (police, media, everyday people commenting) has shown some racist attitudes.

I listened to that 911 call multiple times this morning after getting blasted from someone on my FB who i thought was a friend, to me and was pushing the race card on me saying im racist (im Puerto Rican)........he clearly doesnt say C***S. To me its PUNKS.....the P in Punks is said with such a "PUH" sound there is no way its the other word.

 

[Enron]

By contrast, if the Martins did not speak out publicly, this would not be a story; the cops already determined that they could not charge Zimmerman with anything. The only reason a grand jury is going to be looking at this case is because of the public outcry.

That part is already over and done with, though. The Grand Jury has been called. You don't think that continuing to parade in front of the cameras and microphones is a bad idea, especially for the family, to continue to do so? I think a risk of a mistrial will start looming.

 

[Effect]

First off, I want to say that I don't believe Zimmermans account of events and I can't believe he wasn't arrested pending the investigation. Secondly, the police department have failed on every single way they could have. I mean, they gave Zimmerman his gun back for fucks sake. Unbelievable.

Now having said that, the only affirmative defense would be if Treyton was on top of him and saw the gun in Zimmermans waistline(or wherever it was) and tried to grab the gun. It could then be argued that he was in fear for his life. Other than that, Zimmerman comes off as a wannabe cop who deserves to be in jail.

Even then the stand your ground law would on the side of the Trayvon (sp). He was the one being stalked and then confronted.

 

[JCreasy]

Recent pictures of Trayvon from February 17, 2012

Confirms what we already knew. He was just a kid. I'm finding it difficult to see him as the violent thug some would want me, and the public at large, to see him as.

http://globalgrind.com/node/829140?gpage=3

yeah . . .

 

[Hex]

Recent pictures of Trayvon from February 17, 2012

Confirms what we already knew. He was just a kid. I'm finding it difficult to see him as the violent thug some would want me, and the public at large, to see him as.

http://globalgrind.com/node/829140?gpage=3

yeah . . .

He likes to color too.
That shirt though...

 

[Gordon Shumway]

yeah . . .

Terrifying!!!