If it did the cops would have charged him that night instead of letting him go.
Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest
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If it did the cops would have charged him that night instead of letting him go.
I was summarizing his last 7 calls since august of 2011. 4 of which were suspicious black people. 1One was an open garage door. One was suspicious car. One was a dispute.
I did not look at calls prior to 2011. So yes potentially prior to 2011 he was on the look out for suspicious white males but given his latest calls it would point to the fact that he was looking for suspicious black people. To me it indicates that the color of martin's skin definitely played a role in Zimmerman so aggressively following him.
elrechazado
Banned
The cops have well established issues with professionalism and competence in this case.
No he made 46 phone calls since 2004. In the past year only black people were reported as suspicious in addition to a few other phone calls.
Why are we grabbing his last seven calls? Why not his last 46, which is what the evidence everyone is citing brings up.
You can't cherry pick stats that work for your argument.
I H8 Memes
Member
Not necessarily. Didn't he also call the police on garbage in his street?
None of it matters. He pursued and caused a confrontation between himself and a completely innocent kid, and that resulted in the murder of the kid. What he did is completely beyond what even the ridiculous stand your ground law allows.
Unfortunately bringing race into it is only adding an extra layer of defense for him and the people who want to defend him. Now you have to prove he was racist before you can even enter into the argument of if he is a murderer.
No, he's a murderer. Anything else should only be a secondary concern. Did he say this or that? Did he say something in the past? If it's that ambiguous then don't use it as a starting point.
Big Baybee
Member
His most recent calls, made within the last year, were about blacks. You seem to think he called 911 46 times in one year. Nonononono, that is the last 8 years.
Actually we don't have to prove that he's a racist to show that he profiled this kid as being suspicious because he was an unknown black male in a hooded sweatshirt walking around the neighborhood. I think the facts reflect that he was ignorant and made a stupid decision which resulted in him shooting an innocent child to death.
The link I gave you gives you the ACTUAL police reports of all of Zimmermans phone calls. You can look for yourself. He didn't call 46 times in the last year.
How do we know he confronted him? I've read everyone saying that he disobeyed orders to confront him, but from the police tapes it sounds like he was just going to wait for the police by his mailbox.
He then went on to say when the cops get there, have them call him and he would tell them where they're at.
Anyway...we don't know what happened after that and before he shot him. We have witness reports that are in direct conflict with one another. And we also have the girlfriend of Trayvon saying that Zimmerman was following him...but how are we to believe them?
It seems like people are believing one source, but not another.
Here's the full transcript btw:
http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/326700/full-transcript-zimmerman.pdf
PhoenixDark
Banned
The point worth making is while he made a ton of calls to the police about "everything" but the one thing he did not seem concerned about was suspicious white males. I was wrong about it being a white community, it is actually about 50 50. Which makes it even more odd that despite his seemingly manic obsession with even minor cases of disorder or disturbance, he never finds the need to call in anyone except black males as being suspicious in the neighborhood.
There were burglaries in the neighborhood yet his calls were never in relation to suspects in the act or seemingly in the act of doing anything - they were of black males either walking, talking, or hanging around. How is that not the textbook definition of profiling? Likewise with Trayvon, who allegedly looked like he was "on drugs" and was simply walking home. As I have said multiple times, Trayvon wouldn't be on Zimmerman's or anyone's radar if he was a white kid walking home
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
And I will say again: nobody here is being played. If Kosmo would like to PM specific posters that he would like to save from being duped and manipulated then he should go ahead and do that otherwise he should save the smartest kid in the room routine.
Wait, a 50/50 neighborhood and 4/7 of the people he reported were black? That doesnt seem to show any focus on blacks.
Heh k this reply made me laugh a little. Not being sarcastic at all man, it was just generally funny how you wrote it.
Big Baybee
Member
Shocking
It is?
Not that I disbelieve you, I'm using wiki as my source here. But how do we know that? Why does wikipedia say that many in the course of a year?
Yes? Wikipedia is not the end all. I gave you the actually phone records so I would say that is going to be more reliable than wikipedia.
You mean 100% of the time he only reports suspicious black people while the other times he reports random stuff? Sure as hell looks like a focus to me.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
I missed a "he should save"!
LOL I recall a thread about Encyclopedia Britannica ending their print version and a link to an article claiming Wikipedia was just as accurate. Turns out reading the article revealed that Wikipedia had 30% more mistakes, yet the author decided to title it to say that the two sources are roughly equal.
Big Baybee
Member
The other 3 calls were not about suspicious people or anything at all.
Yea, I never like to source Wiki for anything.
Oh okay. Well this info would be enough to prove he was racially profiling for me, unless there's something else to counter.
demigod
Member
Are you fucking serious? Wiki isn't 100%, people post false info on there all the time.
Links like this are annoying, it has a ridiculous slant to it.
Just at the very top...
2. Zimmerman pursued Martin against the explicit instructions of the police dispatcher:
Dispatcher: “Are you following him?”
Zimmerman: “Yeah”
Dispatcher: “OK, we don’t need you to do that.”
They exclude him saying "OK" after.
4. Zimmerman was carrying a 9 millimeter handgun. Martin was carrying a bag of Skittles and a can of iced tea. [ABC News]
Why does that matter? He didn't mistake his Skittles for a weapon.
Etc.
But thanks for the direct phone link, apparently I used your MJ link from before improperly. I had to click into that
In a case like this with so many sources with bias, it's easy to get a good sampling of what's going on here. And usually, because of the amount of traffic going to that page, things like that would get fixed.
But I find it hard to use links like the first one Chumly posted (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...ld-know-about-about-trayvon-martin-1995-2012/) for any real facts.
so I haven't been keeping up with this thread, and I've followed this story broadly, not closely... but I saw this on my facebook today. Hope its not old, sorry if it is.
I mean... people were liking this, sharing this, posting this... I can't believe people want to put their stamp of approval on something like this? Seriously messed up imho.
elrechazado
Banned
Old, and the bottom right picture is fake.
This. When referencing Wiki, always look at the source on Wiki. If there isn't one, better not use it.
I figured it was old, since I only saw it on my facebook today. I don't understand how something that stupid gets "likes" from people who will openly put their stamp of approval on something like this?
But the top photos are also not current, and those are the main ones we're using.
Regardless, dude on the left murdered the dude on the right. It shouldn't matter what they look like.
There was.
Big Baybee
Member
It very fucked up considering that isn't even a pic of Trayvon. Its just some random black dude.
so I haven't been keeping up with this thread, and I've followed this story broadly, not closely... but I saw this on my facebook today. Hope its not old, sorry if it is.
I mean... people were liking this, sharing this, posting this... I can't believe people want to put their stamp of approval on something like this? Seriously messed up imho.
you should use this to cull your friendslist
So true. The fact that its fake is incredibly fucked up and racist, BUT even if it were true, it shouldn't matter one ounce.
Yikes. Well, bad journalism is bad journalism.
soundahfekz
Member
Seriously you new guys to the thread are fucking ridiculous. What is the threshold for when a person is a racist and when they aren't? Is it not entirely subjective depending your experience, perspective and belief?
The only effective measure that can be used is general consensus, and from everything that we know, there are several aspects of racism at play. Does that make Zimmerman a racist? It depends on who you talk to.
Talk to a man who went through segregation and Martin and Malcom's assassination and he'll probably unequivocally say yes.
Talk to a man whos never had to experience any racial adversity and he may disagree with the assertion that Zimmerman is racist.
This idea that there needs to be some universal qualification for anyone's ACTIONS to be regarded as racist is fucking absurd. Racial profiling and a demonstrated history of profiling is enough for most people who have any concept of what racism really is to identify it as such.
Does it mean Zimmerman is a racist? Yes/no/maybe But how the fuck do you even quantify that label on a purely objective level? We can assert though that some of his actions (specifically, profiling and if you believe he uttered a slur), by the general consensus of what racism is, were racist.
The only effective measure that can be used is general consensus, and from everything that we know, there are several aspects of racism at play. Does that make Zimmerman a racist? It depends on who you talk to.
Talk to a man who went through segregation and Martin and Malcom's assassination and he'll probably unequivocally say yes.
Talk to a man whos never had to experience any racial adversity and he may disagree with the assertion that Zimmerman is racist.
This idea that there needs to be some universal qualification for anyone's ACTIONS to be regarded as racist is fucking absurd. Racial profiling and a demonstrated history of profiling is enough for most people who have any concept of what racism really is to identify it as such.
Does it mean Zimmerman is a racist? Yes/no/maybe But how the fuck do you even quantify that label on a purely objective level? We can assert though that some of his actions (specifically, profiling and if you believe he uttered a slur), by the general consensus of what racism is, were racist.
Yep, this is what happens when one person has a mugshot and the other doesn't. Should've killed someone with a criminal record if he wanted a scary picture up there.
elrechazado
Banned
I've been in this thread for ages, so how about I answer, and thank you for generally agreeing with us that 1. some people are convinced he's racist despite the facts we know now, 2. some people are not convinced of this, and 3. stating that either is true categorically unless or until we have more evidence is probably stupid. Glad we're on the same page.
But didn't just go ahead and continue following him despite the request not to?
elrechazado
Banned
Because we've clearly established that he was probably a self appointed self important mentally unstable vigilante who wished he was a cop.
Agreed. Yet your attitude sucks bro.
Yeah, thats what everyone posting that is missing. Its like they try to explain it away with some sort of nonsensical commentary about media bias. But its neglecting the issue at hand, which is that Zimmerman murdered an innocent 17 year old who wasn't on drugs, and who wasn't armed.
This clarification, posting the images of his facebook antics, all make It OK for Zimmerman to murder a "Ni*ger" Re:/Chris Rock reference thats being completely abused in this instance. It means that we shouldn't be fooled by his innocent black eyes, because he is a hoodlum! Don't let the media convince you that Trayvon was as innocent as he looks! Even if he had a police record, like Zimmerman had. It has nothing to do with the issue at hand. And its not as if people weren't aware that a parent isn't going to rifle through their childs facebook to post gangster pictures of their son.
I mean that shit cleared away most of my facebook friends/email acquaintances etc. Its just staggeringly shocking to see how many people don't get that it is racist, that they are openly racist. The people who are trying so hard to tell black people to shut up about racism, are the same ones rushing and tripping over their computers to post the image, say that Zimmerman is hispanic, so he can't possibly be races, as brown people all get along.
Then you have this thread, with the same defenders coming in here, tagging in like clock work as soon as one leaves, another one hops in with the same arguments. They come in, pick 1 or two posters who might have questionable statements. Lump the entire thread into that, then take it upon themselves to ignore what we know, for hypothetical situations, and trust in the sanford pd, which has already been shattered. While its not, don't drink here, racism. Its still a definite different view based on how you look and act, which in this case, justifies a killing.
Trayvon was shot for walking down the street. The police bungled the investigation, and if it wasn't for discussions like this, petitions, and coverage. It would be a non issue.
Regardless of the oft recycled mantra that contrarians try to hide behind. The "Look, I'm not saying Zimmerman should be free... BUT..." There is no but. All the evidence is questionable, however its questionable & familiar to the community. All of the arguments of Trayvons interactions wash away his legal & human rights. There is no conclusion to jump to. The initial report, and outcome has always been the issue. Zimmerman is still free with his murder weapon.
Edit:
Tempers in this thread raise, because you have the same nonsense happening in a cycle. The only constant, is that Zimmermans story keeps changing, and more evidence against him keeps surfacing that people have to refute.
elrechazado
Banned
amazing that kharvey hasn't been here in days and destroys anyone else on post count in this thread. I wish someone would resummon him.
I don't know, did he?
There's a gap in there that we don't know what happened. We have Trayvon's g/f claiming one thing, but who knows if she is recalling it correctly or how Trayvon reported it to her. At 2:30am, I'd be terrified if someone was following me too...or even just looking at me.
If it was my wife, she'd create an entire narrative about how the entire world was about to end.
The case has very few facts that are quantifiable...everything is basically he-said, she-said.
elrechazado
Banned
Link to trayvon's girlfriend statements? I can't see how she would have any relevant information, since I've never heard of her having been in the area, but I haven't been reading the latest stories.
Big Baybee
Member
She says Trayvon called her and said someone was following him. A call did occur, but we have no way of knowing what they talked about. Phone records do show they had a conversation 5 mins before police arrived on the scene.
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