Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest

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elrechazao said:
Link to trayvon's girlfriend statements? I can't see how she would have any relevant information, since I've never heard of her having been in the area, but I haven't been reading the latest stories.
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http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2...lfriend-heard-his-interaction-with-zimmerman/

http://globalgrind.com/news/trayvon-martins-girlfriend-speaks-out-details

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Bringing up Trayvon's facebook and twitter is just as fair as bringing up quotes and articles from 7 years ago regarding Zimmerman, IMO. If you're going to examine one character, you should examine the other. But only on a superficial level.

I don't think anyone is saying that Trayvon DESERVED to die for being a teenager, but people use an instance from seven years ago and claim that it is EVIDENCE that he will snap at a moments notice.
 
elrechazao said:
Link to trayvon's girlfriend statements? I can't see how she would have any relevant information, since I've never heard of her having been in the area, but I haven't been reading the latest stories.
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http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/trayvon-martins-final-phone-call-he-said-this-man-was-watching-him.php#46796308

Attorney Benjamin Crump, who represents Martin's parents, said the teenager was on the phone with his girlfriend back home in Miami after he left the store. Martin told the girl he'd taken shelter from the rain briefly at an apartment building in the gated community before continuing his walk to where he was staying with his father nearby.

It was then that Martin told the girl he was being followed, according to Crump. She said Martin told her someone was following him and that he was going to try to lose him. He thought he had lost Zimmerman but hadn't.

"He says, 'Oh he's right behind me, he's right behind me again,'" Crump says the girl told him. "She says: 'Run.' He says, 'I'm not going to run I'm just going to walk fast.' She hears Trayvon say, 'Why are you following me?' Other voice says, 'What are you doing around here?'"

She told Crump they both repeated themselves and then she thinks she heard Zimmerman push Martin "because his voice changes like something interrupted his speech." She heard an altercation and then the phone call was cut off.

Within moments, according to Crump's timeline, Martin was shot. She didn't hear the gunfire.
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oatmeal said:
http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2...lfriend-heard-his-interaction-with-zimmerman/

http://globalgrind.com/news/trayvon-martins-girlfriend-speaks-out-details

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Bringing up Trayvon's facebook and twitter is just as fair as bringing up quotes and articles from 7 years ago regarding Zimmerman, IMO. If you're going to examine one character, you should examine the other. But only on a superficial level.

I don't think anyone is saying that Trayvon DESERVED to die for being a teenager, but people use an instance from seven years ago and claim that it is EVIDENCE that he will snap at a moments notice.
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What? The difference is that one person is a kid and the other is a murderer. He murdered this kid, so bringing up incidents of violence in his past isn't being unfair to Zimmerman, it's showing a pattern.
 
Big Baybee said:
What? The difference is that one person is a kid and the other is a murderer. He murdered this kid, so bringing up incidents of violence in his past isn't being unfair to Zimmerman, it's showing a pattern.
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Two instances, seven years apart isn't a pattern.

I think the biggest problem I have with this case is the attention it's getting. There are so many truly terrible things that happen in the USA (and the world) that are far more tragic, but this one was a media darling and facts were twisted to meet the media's agenda.

A quick glance over at www.dreamindemon.com gives you three cases that are just as terrible as this, but none of them get any attention:

http://www.dreamindemon.com/2010/08...ping-murdering-developmentally-disabled-teen/
http://www.dreamindemon.com/2011/03...-guilty-to-torturing-family-killing-teen-son/
http://www.dreamindemon.com/2012/03...to-dismembering-setting-fire-to-disabled-man/

This case is basically the Operation Wall Street, or the Kony 2012 of murder cases.

(Two of those cases aren't recent, I just clicked through from the front page...but I don't remember them getting attention back then)
 
oatmeal said:
Two instances, seven years apart isn't a pattern.

I think the biggest problem I have with this case is the attention it's getting. There are so many truly terrible things that happen in the USA (and the world) that are far more tragic, but this one was a media darling and facts were twisted to meet the media's agenda.

A quick glance over at www.dreamindemon.com gives you three cases that are just as terrible as this, but none of them get any attention:

http://www.dreamindemon.com/2010/08...ping-murdering-developmentally-disabled-teen/
http://www.dreamindemon.com/2011/03...-guilty-to-torturing-family-killing-teen-son/
http://www.dreamindemon.com/2012/03...to-dismembering-setting-fire-to-disabled-man/

This case is basically the Operation Wall Street, or the Kony 2012 of murder cases.

(Two of those cases aren't recent, I just clicked through from the front page...but I don't remember them getting attention back then)
Click to expand...

Uhhhh, someone was arrested in all 3 of the cases you just linked.

Good luck finding another case where someone admits to shooting and killing an unarmed child and is never arrested.
 
oatmeal said:
Two instances, seven years apart isn't a pattern.

I think the biggest problem I have with this case is the attention it's getting. There are so many truly terrible things that happen in the USA (and the world) that are far more tragic, but this one was a media darling and facts were twisted to meet the media's agenda.

A quick glance over at www.dreamindemon.com gives you three cases that are just as terrible as this, but none of them get any attention:

http://www.dreamindemon.com/2010/08...ping-murdering-developmentally-disabled-teen/
http://www.dreamindemon.com/2011/03...-guilty-to-torturing-family-killing-teen-son/
http://www.dreamindemon.com/2012/03...to-dismembering-setting-fire-to-disabled-man/

This case is basically the Operation Wall Street, or the Kony 2012 of murder cases.

(Two of those cases aren't recent, I just clicked through from the front page...but I don't remember them getting attention back then)
Click to expand...

Kony 2012? LOL

That's all I need to know about your perpsective. Good look.
 
You do know Zimmerman has yet to be arrested right?
 
soundahfekz said:
I've been in this thread for ages dealing with trolls and devils advocates who have no concept of what constitutes as racist behavior so honestly I don't give a fuck what you think about my "attitude".
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Classy man.

Btw I am neither of the two things. Those being a troll or devils advocate. I clearly stated zimmerman should be in prison for life. Just saying, before you label me anything. Advise you calm down man.
 
oatmeal said:
Bringing up Trayvon's facebook and twitter is just as fair as bringing up quotes and articles from 7 years ago regarding Zimmerman, IMO. If you're going to examine one character, you should examine the other. But only on a superficial level.

I don't think anyone is saying that Trayvon DESERVED to die for being a teenager, but people use an instance from seven years ago and claim that it is EVIDENCE that he will snap at a moments notice.
Click to expand...

No it's not the same, one person has a record of violence, the other doesn't. Want to take a guess which is which?
 
oatmeal said:
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Bringing up Trayvon's facebook and twitter is just as fair as bringing up quotes and articles from 7 years ago regarding Zimmerman, IMO. If you're going to examine one character, you should examine the other. But only on a superficial level.
Click to expand...

why does trayvon need to be examined?

what on his facebook or twitter had any outcome on what happened that night? your joking right?
 
Kettch said:
Uhhhh, someone was arrested in all 3 of the cases you just linked.
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This case isn't over.

trayvon-martin-people.jpg

There isn't any mention of the tragedy being him not being arrested. That's how this all started, but it has spiralled into so much more.
 
oatmeal said:
Two instances, seven years apart isn't a pattern.
Click to expand...

He was previously arrested for domestic violence, resisting an officer without violence and resisting an officer with violence.

I think the biggest problem I have with this case is the attention it's getting. There are so many truly terrible things that happen in the USA (and the world) that are far more tragic, but this one was a media darling and facts were twisted to meet the media's agenda.
Click to expand...

Uh huh.
 
Riggs said:
Classy man.
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Honestly, he doesn't have to be polite to respond to a guy who doesn't even know Zimmerman wasn't arrested, after he was just dealing with a guy that didn't know the facebook picture isn't trayvon, and posts it as evidence, after dealing with a guy who just says he is here to police the opinions of others that think Zimmerman is guilty, after dealing with a guy that says Hoodies = a Red Flag in his book, after dealing with a guy that pretends being followed by someone is fine & trayvon should have explained himself better, etc.

Its on repeat here. Everything encountered here, outside of news, is people trying to clear Zimmerman of the crime & the inept PD.
 
No offense to you oatmeal but I really don't see how you can't see the difference between the examples you gave and the Trayvon Martin case. The people in your examples have all been charged, the cops did their job. If it wasn't for the media circus this case had become their wouldn't have been a chance for Martin's family to get some justice.

The lead detective didn't believe Zimmerman's story and wanted to charge him with manslaughter. The police chief and the state attorney weren't going to charge Zimmerman. They decided the night of the shooting not to press charges.
 
oatmeal said:
I don't know, did he?

There's a gap in there that we don't know what happened. We have Trayvon's g/f claiming one thing, but who knows if she is recalling it correctly or how Trayvon reported it to her. At 2:30am, I'd be terrified if someone was following me too...or even just looking at me.

If it was my wife, she'd create an entire narrative about how the entire world was about to end.

The case has very few facts that are quantifiable...everything is basically he-said, she-said.
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Zimmerman told police that he was following Trayvon and then later told them that Trayvon started running. So Travyon magically appeared out of no where and assaulted Zimmerman after running away? WHAT?
 
oatmeal said:
This case isn't over.

trayvon-martin-people.jpg

There isn't any mention of the tragedy being him not being arrested. That's how this all started, but it has spiralled into so much more.
Click to expand...

His parents since inception have said that they want justice for their son. Which is being arrested.

oatmeal said:
He doesn't need to be. Neither did Zimmerman.
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out of context: They needed to drug test Zimmerman, but instead just drug tested the victim.
 
Dram said:
No offense to you oatmeal but I really don't see how you can't see the difference between the examples you gave and the Trayvon Martin case. The people in your examples have all been charged, the cops did their job. If it wasn't for the media circus this case had become their wouldn't have been a chance for Martin's family to get some justice.

The lead detective didn't believe Zimmerman's story and wanted to charge him with manslaughter. The police chief and the state attorney weren't going to charge Zimmerman. They decided the night of the shooting not to press charges.
Click to expand...

And the media outrage and narrative should be about the non charging and the shitty job of the police and what institutional factors lead to this kind of shoddy investigation. Instead, we have a large narrative about a white guy shooting a black kid, which drowns out useful discourse about what is the real problem with this terrible case.
 
oatmeal said:
This case isn't over.

trayvon-martin-people.jpg

There isn't any mention of the tragedy being him not being arrested. That's how this all started, but it has spiralled into so much more.
Click to expand...

The case was over to the police. They finished their "investigation" and decided not to charge. It was over.

The story is huge because the killer was never arrested and tried. Your whole point is meaningless.

If Zimmerman had originally been arrested, like any normal person is after killing somebody, this story would be just like all the others and the media would not be talking about it.
 
commedieu said:
Honestly, he doesn't have to be polite to respond to a guy who doesn't even know Zimmerman wasn't arrested, after he was just dealing with a guy that didn't know the facebook picture isn't trayvon, and posts it as evidence, after dealing with a guy who just says he is here to police the opinions of others that think Zimmerman is guilty, after dealing with a guy that says Hoodies = a Red Flag in his book, after dealing with a guy that pretends being followed by someone is fine & trayvon should have explained himself better, etc.

Its on repeat here. Everything encountered here, outside of news, is people trying to clear Zimmerman of the crime & the inept PD.
Click to expand...
Ya well I am not defendig zimmerman or trolling. So he can be respectful or continue to be hostile, his choice. But I can call him out for it too.
 
Dram said:
No offense to you oatmeal but I really don't see how you can't see the difference between the examples you gave and the Trayvon Martin case. The people in your examples have all been charged, the cops did their job. If it wasn't for the media circus this case had become their wouldn't have been a chance for Martin's family to get some justice.

The lead detective didn't believe Zimmerman's story and wanted to charge him with manslaughter. The police chief and the state attorney weren't going to charge Zimmerman. They decided the night of the shooting not to press charges.
Click to expand...

No offense taken, and I realize that I'm spinning off into something else entirely which isn't what I thought would happen.

I'm going to bail out because now I'm getting into pointless shit.
 
demigod said:
No it's not the same, one person has a record of violence, the other doesn't. Want to take a guess which is which?
Click to expand...
This. When will people understand? We know of at least four instances where Zimmerman engaged in aggressive, physical altercations. Trayvon has NEVER had any sort of violence in his past. He was suspended from school for having an empty marijuana bag. That has nothing to do with anything. Zimmerman made a number of phone calls in the months leading up to the murder identifying "suspicious" persons, almost all of whom were black.

It's ok to play devil's advocate or contrarian when both person's are on equal footing, but as we understand things now, Zimmerman was most likely to instigate a physical altercation based on his record, Zimmerman most likely reported Trayvon to 911 because he was black based on his previous 911 phone calls, and Zimmerman has the most incentive to lie under every circumstance to avoid being put in prison.
 
oatmeal said:
Yeah, like...a big event that everyone jumps on the bandwagon. It's internet and media popular.
Click to expand...

So no case should ever warrant national attention unless meeting certain criteria?

Should there be a panel ranking each crime to determine if it deserves national attention?
 
oatmeal said:
No offense taken, and I realize that I'm spinning off into something else entirely which isn't what I thought would happen.

I'm going to bail out because now I'm getting into pointless shit.
Click to expand...

Translation: I'm done shitting up the thread with arguments that don't reflect the situation at hand, kthxbye.
 
oatmeal said:
No offense taken, and I realize that I'm spinning off into something else entirely which isn't what I thought would happen.

I'm going to bail out because now I'm getting into pointless shit.
Click to expand...

I just think you need to reevaluate your priorities if you think the biggest problem with a case of someone shooting and killing an unarmed child and not being arrested at all, is the attention that it's getting.
 
Suikoguy said:
Translation: I'm done shitting up the thread with arguments that don't reflect the situation at hand, kthxbye.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

EVERY TIME. This happens every time! We should have a pamphlet on how to deal with this by now, as its the same pattern, the same arguments, the same viewpoints, and the same bail or ban.
 
commedieu said:
Exactly.

EVERY TIME. This happens every time! We should have a pamphlet on how to deal with this by now, as its the same pattern, the same arguments, the same viewpoints, and the same bail or ban.
Click to expand...

Probably the same users behind the accounts, since they never seem to be around at the same time.
 
Kettch said:
I just think you need to reevaluate your priorities if you think the biggest problem with a case of someone shooting and killing an unarmed child and not being arrested at all, is the attention that it's getting.
Click to expand...

That's not what I'm saying. Media attention is fine, but it's the way it's presented that changes the entire publics perception on a case and turns it on its head.

We know that Zimmerman killed him, but we don't know all of the circumstances leading up to it. Hopefully the detectives working on it will be able to sort it out and the right judgment is made.

But the media and internet turned into their own detectives and claim they've solved it and it blows up into this big thing. It's clearly more complex than that with a lot of misinformation.
 
oatmeal said:
That's not what I'm saying. Media attention is fine, but it's the way it's presented that changes the entire publics perception on a case and turns it on its head.

We know that Zimmerman killed him, but we don't know all of the circumstances leading up to it. Hopefully the detectives working on it will be able to sort it out and the right judgment is made.

But the media and internet turned into their own detectives and claim they've solved it and it blows up into this big thing. It's clearly more complex than that with a lot of misinformation.
Click to expand...

Yea, the media caused Zimmerman to stalk, chase down, fight, and subsequently murder a 17 year old boy.
 
I like these posts:

- Posts with links to sources of new evidence.
- Posts talking about facts.
- Posts speculating scenario based on facts.
- Posts pointing out inconsistencies.

I don't like these posts:

- Whining about race.
- Whining about whining about race.
- Derailing with non-related subjects.
- Posting a shit ton of unlikely scenarios based on bias.
- Posting shit that's inconsistent with the facts.
- Posting inconsistent statements as facts while debating.
- Shitty damn ass fuckers who think they should be playing the devil's advocate.

Please don't get to the level of racial issues like The Young Turks do.

I also suggest the latest devil's advocates to stop getting on my nerves. Don't play the devil's advocate for the sake of being one, or you'll simply end up on a certain list of mine. You know you are one when you just look at your post in singularity and notice it has no fucking input whatsoever.
 
oatmeal said:
That's not what I'm saying. Media attention is fine, but it's the way it's presented that changes the entire publics perception on a case and turns it on its head.

We know that Zimmerman killed him, but we don't know all of the circumstances leading up to it. Hopefully the detectives working on it will be able to sort it out and the right judgment is made.

But the media and internet turned into their own detectives and claim they've solved it and it blows up into this big thing. It's clearly more complex than that with a lot of misinformation.
Click to expand...


... heres your coat.
 
oatmeal said:
That's not what I'm saying. Media attention is fine, but it's the way it's presented that changes the entire publics perception on a case and turns it on its head.

We know that Zimmerman killed him, but we don't know all of the circumstances leading up to it. Hopefully the detectives working on it will be able to sort it out and the right judgment is made.

But the media and internet turned into their own detectives and claim they've solved it and it blows up into this big thing. It's clearly more complex than that with a lot of misinformation.
Click to expand...

The only reason internet detectives are looking into the case is because the real detectives decided not to. The correct judgement, arresting and trying Zimmerman, was not made. When that happens there's simply no way to deny people speculating and discussing it.

And again, this is exactly what you said:

I think the biggest problem I have with this case is the attention it's getting.
Click to expand...
 
PhoenixDark said:
Yes, he has a history of calling in suspicious black males; I did not say most of the calls were related to that. And yes, he called in a "suspicious" looking 8 year old black kid earlier this year, in broad daylight iirc
Click to expand...

I don't have the link handy, but I did post the set of 911 reports the other day in this thread. Any variant of "suspicious" does not appear in the 911 report about that kid. He made the call because he was concerned about the safety of a kid being unattended for on a busy street.

Without a transcript, we don't know the context of that kid being listed as black--whether Zimmerman volunteered the info from the get-go or if it was part of the description the operator prompted for to give to the police (who did not find the kid).
 
oatmeal said:
http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2...lfriend-heard-his-interaction-with-zimmerman/

http://globalgrind.com/news/trayvon-martins-girlfriend-speaks-out-details

-

Bringing up Trayvon's facebook and twitter is just as fair as bringing up quotes and articles from 7 years ago regarding Zimmerman, IMO. If you're going to examine one character, you should examine the other. But only on a superficial level.

I don't think anyone is saying that Trayvon DESERVED to die for being a teenager, but people use an instance from seven years ago and claim that it is EVIDENCE that he will snap at a moments notice.
Click to expand...

Well IMO Zimmerman's past was only an issue in determining if he was racially profiling (and users on here have successfully convinced me that he was, based on the timing of his calls relating to black males).

Martin's past isn't relevant since we're not trying to determine anything that would require it.
 
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