bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Yeah, the concept of Occam's Razor is lost on you.
Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest
- Thread starter Dram
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This. If the guy was as battered as he claimed to be, he'd keep calling for help due to the severe beatdown he just received. Or does that not make sense? Especially since two witnesses saw his walking away from Trayvon's body and when asked, "What's going on?" He casually said, "Call the cops."
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Have you ever shot someone? Do you know anyone that has shot someone personally?
Why would he keep screaming (assuming it was him screaming)? Most likely he wouldn't.
I know people who have shot someone, veterans, and even for trained killers it is something that hit them like a rock.
Also, have you fired a gun. They are loud as fuck when you fire them. That enough would be enough to stop him.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Again, the simplest answer is not what you are putting out there. Sorry.
You have got to be kidding me.
Some of you guys are making this way more about whose pseudo-intellectual dick is bigger than it is about what really happened between the two men, one of whom is now dead.
Maybe you should just stop posting for a while, until there's an actual, substantive update.
Not trying to be a mod, just seeking peaceful discussion instead of pointless arguing where neither side is listening.
Maybe you should just stop posting for a while, until there's an actual, substantive update.
Not trying to be a mod, just seeking peaceful discussion instead of pointless arguing where neither side is listening.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Do you want to have a discussion or just be insulting? If you don't like what I have to say, why bother replying.
Or try answering my question, have you shot someone, know someone who has, or fired a gun?
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
That by far is the simplest answer. He shot him, if it was him screaming, he just fired a gun and killed someone. There is no reason he would continue screaming. None at all.
If it was Trayvon, then he stopped because he got shot.
Those are the only two scenarios, and at this point you have no evidence to prove who it was.
This doesn't mean Zimmerman isn't a piece of shit who killed a 17yr old.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
That post was accidental--I answered you already.
So, if he's laying there battered and bloody with a cracked head and a broken nose, he should stop calling for help because he doesn't need it anymore? Gotcha.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
No because he just fired a bullet into another person. That would be a very abrupt reason to stop screaming.
Also if you want to break it down more, the threat he perceived would be gone.
Lol! You contrarians kill me. So here's a guy who, according to his own words, needed SERIOUS medical attention because his head got repeatedly smashed on the pavement and his nose was broken, and after shooting someone, he no longer needs help despite being battered and bloody? Put yourself in the scenario. You're beaten to a pulp and just shot a guy. You wouldn't still be calling for help despite bleeding all over the place and laying there all alone not knowing when/if help will come?
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
But why would we need to break it down? Simplest answer means just that. Look at what you yourself provided as scenarios. One was more simple than the other, no?
Ummmm....
Crap or not, it's enough to see that there is no injury. Or is the video too grainy to conclude that we're even looking at a human head?
That was a result of him disobeying orders from his superiors. There must be something a little wrong if he disobeys his superiors and continues stalking someone he has no proof of being criminalious or not.
Ploid 3.0
Member
Arsenio Hall had a great point on Pierce Morgan. It don't matter what race the guy was, if Zimm said coon, or what. He had no right to stop Treyvon Martin, and Treyvon had every right to resist him, get home, and not put himself in a position to be kidnapped by the strange guy who isn't a officer. He was so close to his safe point.
Arsenio says he don't even know what to tell his kid now because depending on where he is he probably can't run or walk fast, nor resist being detained by normal people who arn't cops.
Arsenio says he don't even know what to tell his kid now because depending on where he is he probably can't run or walk fast, nor resist being detained by normal people who arn't cops.
soundahfekz
Member
It's not a grown man's voice heard in the recording. You don't need a biometric test to figure that out. However, there's been two tests done that essentially confirm within scientific reason that it is NOT Zimmerman, yet we have fucking scholars in here who obviously have a background in interpreting audio.
48% in voice accuracy is not a match AT ALL, other than the fact the voice is human. It doesn't matter if it was "Easy" mode. having a background in professional audio, any "preset" in the audio software would involve spectral manipulation to optimize frequencies that further isolate the voice. "Presets" or "Easy mode" is still created with professional parameters and designed to be reasonably conclusive. The only thing that is going to be confirmed through detailed analysis is further confirmation it wasn't Zimmerman's voice.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
I think my mind would be all kinds of fucked up because I just shot someone. Doubtful I'd continue to scream. Can't say 100%, never shot anyone myself. Can you not admit, that that would shock your system pretty hard?
Equally plausible, one is 100% certain in the fact that if it was Trayvon getting shot would stop him from screaming. Doesn't prove at all that it was him though, because if it was Zimmerman screaming it's equally plausible he would stop screaming up shooting.
We don't know for a fact yet who that was screaming, despite the "experts".
BruiserBear
Banned
Can you and I just be real for a moment here? I mean REAL.
You and I probably agree on most of the key aspects of this case, but I can assure you nothing I've said in this thread was said to be contrarian. Can you at least acknowledge that some people let their emotions get the best of them, and wholesale accept possible explanations as fact, just becaus they are angry about what Zimmerman did?
For example, the 911 call. I completely agree that he might have said "coons". But do I feel sure of it? No. If I had to bet money on it, I'd say he did. But is it fair to say he did, without being certain?
I am genuinely troubled by the civil discourse in the world today, and I can't help but feel that possibilities turned into certainties are not helpful. I've been called plenty of names in this thread, and I haven't lashed out in kind. That's because I don't see anyone in this thread as an enemy.
Not liking the veiled bullshit Im seeing from some gaffers on this. Think I need to stop reading this thread, some folks in here are pretty damn terrible, and its very very very obvious where your feelings lie, and how some are trying to justify this very unfortunate situation.
Reading from page one really illuminates it. Jumping from one excuse to the next as the incriminating evidence kept coming out.
Reading from page one really illuminates it. Jumping from one excuse to the next as the incriminating evidence kept coming out.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Questioning questionable evidence means we support Zimmerman? Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's not true. Find any post of mine that says Zimmerman is innocent.
I've said he might be found innocent, but dude is totally at fault for the death of a 17yr old man.
I haven't seen the others who've gotten backlash like me who have sided with Zimmerman as well.. it's like a broken record where we have to mention it every page, but then get insulted again and again about how we be trollin' and supportin the Z-Man.
Zimmerman is a piece of shit who killed a 17yr old. He should arrested.
Kharvey: I could come back to this, since it basically comes down to your FBI symposium members' surety versus the opinion of another professional voice recognition specialist. They want absolute surety, because they have to make cases before judges to get warrants before they break into houses to plant bugs or hack computers or put GPS trackers on or in things. It becomes a liability if they're wrong, so they want perfect assurance, and of course we should always go for better tools. But that still doesn't mean that comparing dissimilar samples doesn't come up with viable data or verifiable outcomes. It just doesn't. 'Good enough' might be just fine for incidentals and circumstantials of a general investigation before you need warrants. You say he did it wrong, but you're wrong in the use of the word, implying less than optimal is definitively useless or totally incorrect. That's your opinion, not even the opinion of the FBI symposium members you cite who stop at stating what they would rather have for satisfaction.
Now I'm not going to do this.
This is what I will not do. I'm done. But be ware. The chew toy is yours. For now.
Now I'm not going to do this.
Who the hell are you again? Where are your posts early in the thread? Where is it that I was talking about you? Whoever you are... Miss me with your paranoia, I don't know you, and wasn't talking about you.
soundahfekz
Member
The difference between you and me is that you're on a mission to save the world from emotion based on what has been a pretty straightforward case, with the discrepancies being irrelevant.
You agree that Zimmerman should go to jail for a long time, yet you continue to play devil's advocate, in what almost seems intentional in stirring the annoyance of a situation you CLEARLY don't understand, as it's apparent you've never had to deal with the kind of scrutiny that can lead to such circumstances.
I've yet to see a person who can attest to having being subject to this kind of profiling roll up in this thread and talk about how every detail has to be absolute and 100% objective before they're able to display disgust.
Wow. For real?
How did you make the determination of what is good enough? We have materials which specify standards, standards which he did not meet. On what basis have you determined lesser standards that still produce acceptable results?
No, I can't admit that. I'd keep yelling for help because I would need some fucking help, medical or otherwise.
That's all that we have right now. Well, the experts plus Trayvon's mom and his cousin both confirming it was his voice. Oh, and also that people that actually heard it that night. I'll take all of their words over any hypothetical theory that you have.
The pro did that. People who have used voice recognition in the past looking for positive ID flags did that. Your gov't symposium did that. Good enough to investigate, good enough to stand up in court, or just good enough to make you stop and think. Your challenge of this is still moot since he wouldn't subject this informal testimony to legal examination. He would get more information, he would become more sure, he would test further. That doesn't make the preliminaries invalid. Even if you say he did it "wrong". You can keep pushing that point, but you're wasting your time, counselor.
VV well...we can wonder and keep trying this case in the People's GAF, or we can look at Zim Zimma's past history of suspicion, recent 911 calls, and conclude his ass should have stayed in the car, and that a black male walking on the sidewalk in a neighborhood he didn't even live in led him to believe that criminal action was imminent, and against all sense went to persue and likely challenged the unknown private citizen, ultimately killing him, and later claiming he was followed to his car and attacked, justifying it all.
VV well...we can wonder and keep trying this case in the People's GAF, or we can look at Zim Zimma's past history of suspicion, recent 911 calls, and conclude his ass should have stayed in the car, and that a black male walking on the sidewalk in a neighborhood he didn't even live in led him to believe that criminal action was imminent, and against all sense went to persue and likely challenged the unknown private citizen, ultimately killing him, and later claiming he was followed to his car and attacked, justifying it all.
BruiserBear
Banned
But as I just mentioned, how factually solid are the racial elements of this story? I'm asking you to really give your genuine thoughts on that specific aspect, because it seems far more important than a trivial matter in this case for a lot of people.
Do you know for sure what he said on that 911 call? Do you know for sure that George Zimmerman would have behaved differently if he saw a white/Hispanic male standing in the rain that night, wearing a hoodie?
The symposium and/or FBI established reduced requirements for audio analysis up to and including the Akira28 standard of "good enough for me"? I must have missed that section.
He stated his work has shown, with "scientific certainty", that the audio is not Zimmerman. Those are his words, and they are an exaggeration. Scientific certainty is good enough for trial, the work he performed is not. You recognize as much.
Why do I have a sneaking suspicion that this process I'm going through would be extremely easy if this man had concluded it was Zimmerman on that tape? All of these objections would still stand and I suspect none of you would call them into question if that were the case.
soundahfekz
Member
Honestly, I don't really care if he said punks or coons
I don't care if he would've acted different
I don't care if trayvon was wearing a hoodie, a suit or a Rey Mysterio Jr. Suit complete with the question marks all over it.
I know he followed, he pursed against 911 dispatch advice, it wasn't his voice crying for help, and his injuries weren't life threatening. I know he found black males to be suspicious before, and I know "these guys" surely wasn't referring to criminals, as no crime was committed in walking down the street.
I want an arrest, because the facts are more than sufficient for an arrest at minimum and the case to be heard in front of the grand jury. I couldn't give two shits about Zimmerman's racial issues or lack thereof, but I am concerned about mentality from the police who handled the case, who tested a dead body for drugs but not a man claiming self defense, a police chief who showed so much indifference with the nation's attention on him.
It's been said (at least by me) that the racial tension is a byproduct of a fucked up investigation that showed gross amounts of indifference, with the exception of the "coons" controversy, so I'm not really sure what your purpose is in continuing to play devil's advocate in this thread.
I noticed you never responded to my audio post. Why?
scientific certainty of x percent. still relative to a degree. He believes in his tools, his skills, and the process. More tests would close the gap and the doubts of others. If he found that it was Zimmerman doing the screaming, people would still be saying lets do more tests to be sure. He would still be conflicting the accounts of some and confirming the accounts of others. Why do you suspect your doubts of voice ID would be more readily accepted? Maybe if we didn't have 174 pages of merry-go-round you'd have a point. You don't have a Kharvey to contend with. I guess you could always argue with yourself.
That percentage quantifies how much of a match it is. Let's ask a logical question: if I cannot prove the voices do match, have I proven the voices don't match?
Myself and others are saying do more tests to be sure, and getting a shit load of grief for it. If you're telling me criticism of the expert's analysis would not be better received had he reached the opposite conclusion, I can only say I disagree strongly.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Jesus Christ.
FACT: Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon
FACT: Trayvon was a skinny 17 year old minding his own business that night
FACT: Trayvon was not doing anything illegal that night
FACT: Trayvon was unnarmed
FACT: Zimmerman was armed
FACT: Trayvon would still be alive today if Zimmerman did not stalk and confront him.
You guys are assholes and absolutely disgusting people.
FACT: Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon
FACT: Trayvon was a skinny 17 year old minding his own business that night
FACT: Trayvon was not doing anything illegal that night
FACT: Trayvon was unnarmed
FACT: Zimmerman was armed
FACT: Trayvon would still be alive today if Zimmerman did not stalk and confront him.
You guys are assholes and absolutely disgusting people.
soundahfekz
Member
As long as there is a .1 percent chance that it could be Zimmerman, the goalposts will continue to move as they have since the beginning of this thread.
Oh we can agree on that.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Wow, really? When did it become okay to call people assholes and disgusting on NeoGAF?
For the record, I agree with all your facts, and I never once disputed any of them. Either has Kharvey or BruiserBear for that matter.
Not sure who else you would be calling " assholes and absolutely disgusting people" though.
soundahfekz
Member
They're interested in arguing until every single detail is a CIA vetted, irrefutable fact published in the school books of Texas elementary children.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Because the defenses have come to the point of absolute insult.
soundahfekz
Member
It's funny that for rigid logic gaf, even scientific proof isn't enough now whereas it was before it further incriminated Zimmerman. I'm not so sure it's the people in this thread who want to see justice served that have the agenda.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
That wasn't scientific proof. One of the guys works for a company that just released a $5,000 piece of software. His own statements before contradict the process that he even employed. His agenda is self-promotion.
It was a joke for either of these guys to not do due diligence with this before stating bluntly they were 100% sure who's voice it was.
I'd completely accept the results if they did it to a standard that could be used in court.
To be honest, I hope it was Martin screaming.. makes the case a whole lot easier for the prosecutors than if it's the other way around.
why. won't. you. DIE?>!
Hahahaha, all of this stuff aside...that's good. Lol
Vicetrailia
Banned
Roger Danish
Member
Why? Does listening to his screams offer you some sick satisfaction? Pervert!
Oh. I'll be sure to let them know next time. Lord knows they will not rest until you "completely accept the results."
April 10th.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
April 10th.
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