Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest

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How can you come to that conclusion? We only know about the 'evidence' and opinions of the investigation from the local police. Absolutely nothing from everyone else.

If there was such an overwhelming amount of evidence, as people in this thread like to make it seem. That Zimmerman chased down, and murdered Trayvon solely because he was black. The FBI and US department of justice would have this down as an open and shut murder case.

I say, let them do their jobs.
 
If you have not been paying attention. He didn't say coons. They have done audio analysis and enhancing on the audio. The same that would be done in a trial. It wasn't coons he said.
I know what I heard, since I listened to the same recording many times. Zimmerman's a racist POS.

The media tried to play the race card, and you idiots fell for it, hook, line and sinker.
Exactly who are you calling idiots?

There is no doubt that he chased after Travyon because he was black, and therefore suspicious. He didn't shoot Travyon because he's black, but he got into a fight with him because he was black...
 
By now, you probably know the shameful details, but they are worth repeating, in any event.

On the evening of February 26, George Zimmerman, a self-appointed “neighborhood watch captain” in an Orlando suburb, shot and killed 17-year old Trayvon Martin.

Because Martin was black.

And no, don’t even think of rolling your eyes at the suggestion. That is what happened, just as surely as so many might well be loathe to admit it.

Oh sure, he denies such a motivation, as does his family, but the details of the incident, now emerging from that evening leave very little question about it.

This was not, as we too often hear in the wake of such incidents, “a tragedy.”

This was not, as some would have it, “a terrible accident.”

It was murder, plain and simple. And it would be called such by everyone in a nation that had any commitment to honest language, which, sadly, would pretty much rule out the one in which Martin’s life began and ended, and in which Zimmerman continues to operate as a free man, unarrested by the police.

Trayvon Martin is dead because George Zimmerman believed his neighborhood needed and deserved to be protected from young black men, who could not possibly belong there, in his estimation. Never mind that Martin was in the community with his father, visiting friends. Never mind that Martin was armed only with Skittles and iced tea, while Zimmerman carried a loaded weapon.

Zimmerman, who has a history of aggressive behavior (including assaulting an officer a few years ago), appears to have something of a Dirty Harry syndrome about him. He is someone described by his own neighbors as overzealous, motivated by an obsessive desire to guard the perimeter of his community and pose as a crime-fighting hero to those around him. It doesn’t take much imagination to size up Zimmerman psychologically. He’s like so many other utterly unaccomplished males who fantasize about being a badass law officer, meting out justice to the ne’er-do-wells. He’s the kind of person who, if he weren’t playing at policeman, would be one of those guys fabricating stories of his war heroism, buying fake military uniforms and medals on eBay and telling strangers in bars how he single-handedly held off insurgents in Kandahar or some such shit. He’s one of those guys. If you’ve met one, you’ve met them all: a wannabe somebody with a gun permit and a healthy dose of amped up, testosterone-fueled anxiety about outsiders; and so too, in his case, it appears (not only from this incident but also from dozens of previous 9-1-1 calls he’d made), a consistent fear about black men, whom he seemed to consider, almost by definition, as not belonging in his neighborhood.

If Trayvon Martin had been, say, Todd Martin, a 17-year old white male, in the same neighborhood on the same evening, it wouldn’t have mattered that he was wearing a hoodie, looking at homes as he passed them by, or fiddling with his waistband. These, it should be noted, were the apparent indicators of criminality that Zimmerman felt compelled to share with the police during his 9-1-1 call, before opting to chase Martin himself, in brazen defiance of their explicit instruction to stay put. Had he been white, Martin’s humanity would have been clearly discernible to Zimmerman. But he was black, and male, and that alone inspired Zimmerman to conclude that there was “something wrong with this guy,” and that he appeared to be “on drugs,” a judgment Zimmerman felt qualified to render based on his extensive background in behavioral psychology, bested only by his prodigious law enforcement training, and by extensive and prodigious, in this case, I mean none whatsoever.

Indeed, if you do not know that Martin’s race (and more to the point, Zimmerman’s racism) is central to the former’s death at the hands of the latter, it may well be that you are incapable of ever comprehending even the most obvious manifestations of this nation’s longstanding racial drama. Worse still, it may suggest that you are so bereft of empathy as to render you morally and emotionally dangerous to decent people.
And by empathy here, I don’t mean merely the ability to feel for the family of this murdered child. I’m guessing most all can manage that much. Rather, I refer to the kind of empathy too rarely attainable, by whites in particular, in the case of black folks who insist, based on their entire life experience and the insight gained from that experience, that their rights to life and liberty are too often subject to the capricious whims of those with less melanin than they, and for reasons owing explicitly to the color of their skin.

Empathy — real empathy, not the situational and utterly phony kind that most any of us can muster when social convention calls for it — requires that one be able to place oneself in the shoes of another, and to consider the world as they must consider it. It requires that we be able to suspend our own culturally-ingrained disbelief long enough to explore the possibility that perhaps the world doesn’t work as we would have it, but rather as others have long insisted it did.

Empathy, which is always among the first casualties of racist thinking, mandates our acceptance of the possibility that maybe it isn’t those long targeted by oppression who are exaggerating the problem or making the proverbial mountain out of a molehill, but rather we who have underestimated the gravity of racial domination and subordination in this country, and reduced what are, in fact, Everest-sized peaks to ankle-high summits, and for our own purposes, rather than in the service of truth.

And please, let us have no more ignoble and dissembling rationalizations for Trayvon Martin’s death and Zimmerman’s killing of him. If you are one, like those firmly ensconced in the pathetic Sanford, Florida police department, trying against all logic and human feeling to square this pernicious circle, just stop it. That there had been a half-dozen or so break-ins in Zimmerman’s community, ostensibly orchestrated by black males matters not a whit. Likewise, that there was a string of robberies in my New Orleans neighborhood during my senior year of college, which were the handiwork of white men, would not have justified my being stopped by police every time I returned home from a late afternoon class, to say nothing of being accosted by some community asshole with a Charles Bronson complex. But of course, such an analogy is silly isn’t it? We all know that whites are never subjected to this kind of generalized suspicion, even when we do, indeed, fit the description of one or another bad guy on the loose. We are not all looked at sideways when yet another white male serial killer is at large, or yet another abortion clinic bomber. We don’t face police roadblocks in lily-white communities so as to catch drunk drivers, even though the data is quite clear that whites represent a disproportionate number and percentage of those driving under the influence.

As for Zimmerman’s claims of self-defense, that anyone could believe such a demonstrably transparent lie as this is stunning. Or rather it isn’t. It makes perfect sense in a nation where blackness and danger have long been considered synonymous, such that any black male over the age of perhaps 10 can “reasonably” be assumed a predator whose designs on decent people and their property are so concretized as to warrant virtually any measure invoked to monitor, control and incapacitate them. However much has changed in the U.S. since the 1960s, or for that matter the 1860s, make note of it that at least this much has not: black folks are still, in the eyes of far too many whites, a problem to be addressed, a riddle to be solved. And deprived of the old mechanisms of social control to which we were once so wedded — formal segregation, regular lynchings, forced sterilization, even enslavement — we have opted for the development of new forms: racial profiling, gated communities into which we shall police entry, zoning laws that limit who can live among us, and mass incarceration for non-violent drug offenses, among others.

Under what rational interpretation of self-defense could Zimmerman’s actions qualify? Zimmerman chased Martin down. Zimmerman tackled Martin after Martin demanded to know why Zimmerman was following him. Martin screamed for help. And Zimmerman shot him. Even if Martin fought back, how could such a thing — a quite reasonable response, it should be noted, to being attacked by a total stranger — justify pulling a gun, pulling the trigger and shooting the person who was acting in self-defense against you? To those who accept Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense, let us ask a simple question: would you be so willing to buy that argument if a black person were to chase down a white person in a mostly black neighborhood, and then upon catching him, end his life when the white person resisted being pummeled? You know full well the answer. We all do.

If I chase you and jump you, and you resist my assault, and in response to your resistance I kill you, I am the bad guy. Period. End of story. No exceptions, no prevarications, no ifs ands or buts. It’s me. Trayvon Martin is the innocent one here. He is the one who was acting in self-defense, when he resisted the assault of a total stranger, whose purposes for chasing him and accosting him made him rightfully afraid. After all, “neighborhood watch captains,” whether duly elected as such or just in their own heads (as seems to have been the case with Zimmerman), don’t wear official law enforcement uniforms, which might help identify them to the persons they may find themselves pursuing. And ya’ know why? Because despite their fervent and pre-adolescent desires to play cops and robbers like they used to do when they were eight years old, they are not cops. They are not even security guards. They are self-appointed enforcers with no authority whatsoever, save that which they have chosen to fabricate so as to make themselves feel more important.

Oh, and when you abuse that ill-gotten authority and take the life of a young black man in the process, you don’t get to be taken seriously when you swear that your actions couldn’t have been racist because, after all, you’re Latino (this being the latest fanciful insistence of Zimmerman’s family). Dear merciful Lord, what is that supposed to prove? Racism is not about the identity of the person acting it out so much as those upon whom it is acted, and for what purpose. There were black slave owners in the South, after all, and what of it? American slavery was a racist institution because it subordinated people based on racial identity, and was predicated on the notion of black inhumanity and white supremacy. That there were some black people who bought into both sets of lies does not acquit the institution of the charge of racism, nor those among the African American community who participated in it. So too, that there are persons of color who are just as anti-black in their thinking as many whites, pathetic and heartbreaking though it may be, means nothing and truthfully, should surprise no one.

It should be especially unsurprising that Zimmerman would have internalized racially-biased assumptions about black males, given the society in which he (and we) reside. And although this hardly lets him off the hook — one must be responsible for one’s own actions in any event, no matter the social contributors to those actions — it is worth noting a few things about the milieu in which this wannabe police officer was operating. In other words, Zimmerman’s culpability, while total and complete, is not solitary.

After all, we are a society in which research has shown quite conclusively that local newscasts overrepresent blacks as criminals, relative to their actual share of total crime, and overrepresent whites as victims, relative to our share of victimization.
A society in which other studies have shown that these racially-skewed newscasts have a direct relationship to widespread negative perceptions of black people. Indeed, a substantial percentage of anti-black racial hostility can be directly traced to media imagery, even after all other factors are considered.

A society in which the disproportionate incarceration of black males — especially for non-violent drug offenses, which they are no more likely (and often even less likely) than whites to commit — feeds the perception that they are so treated because they are dangerous and must be kept at bay.

A society in which criminality is so associated with blackness that whites literally and almost instantly connect the two things in survey after survey, and study after study, even though we are roughly 5 times as likely to be criminally victimized by another white person as by a black person.

A society in which anti-black racism has been so long ingrained that not only most whites, but also most Latinos and Asian Americans, demonstrate substantial subconscious bias against African Americans in study after study of implicit racial hostility (and even about a third of blacks themselves demonstrate anti-black racism).

George Zimmerman was very simply taught to fear black men by his society, and he learned his lessons well. And while he must be punished for his transgressions — and hopefully will be, now that the Justice Department is investigating and a Grand Jury is being convened — let there be no mistake, he cannot and should not take the fall alone for that which stems so directly from a larger social and cultural narrative to which he (and all of us) have been subjected.

Black males are, for far too many in America, a racial Rorschach test, onto which we instantaneously graft our own perceptions and assumptions, virtually none of them good. Look, a black man on your street! Quick, what do you see? A criminal. Look, a black man on the corner! Quick, what do you see? A drug dealer. Look, a black man in a suit, in a corporate office! Quick, what do you see? An affirmative action case who probably got the job over a more qualified white man. And if you don’t believe that this is what we do — what you do — then ask yourself why 95 percent of whites, when asked to envision a drug user, admit to picturing a black person, even though blacks are only 13 percent of users, compared to about 70 percent who are white? Ask yourself why whites who are hooked up to brain scan monitors and then shown subliminal images of black men — too quickly for the conscious mind to even process what it saw — show a dramatic surge of activity in that part of the brain that reacts to fear and anxiety? Ask yourself why whites continue to believe that we are the most discriminated against group in America — and that folks of color are “taking our jobs” — even as we remain roughly half as likely to be out of work and a third as likely to be poor as those persons of color. Even when only comparing persons with college degrees, black unemployment is about double the white rate, Latino unemployment about 50 percent higher, and Asian American unemployment about a third higher than their white counterparts.

George Zimmerman must be held accountable for his actions, and hopefully he will be. Innocent until proven guilty of course, there is a process for determining matters of formal legal responsibility, and may that process now move forward to a just conclusion. But beyond the matter of legal guilt or innocence, beyond that which can be addressed in a court of law — one way or the other — there is a bigger issue here, and it is one that cannot be resolved by a jury, be it Grand or otherwise, nor by judges or prosecutors. It is the none-too-minor matter of the monster we as a nation have created, not only apparently in the heart of George Zimmerman, but in the minds of millions: individuals far too quick to rationalize any injustice so long as the victim has a black face; persons for whom no act of racially-biased misconduct qualifies as racist; persons who have allowed their own fears, anxieties and occasionally even hatreds to numb them, to inure them to the pain and suffering of the so-called other.

Yesterday, I received an e-mail from someone suggesting that perhaps we should begin to sport buttons like those that became so ubiquitous in the case of Troy Davis last year. You know the buttons, right? The ones that said: “I am Troy Davis.” The ones that aimed at solidarity with an unjustly executed man, but which, on the lapels and t-shirts of white people seemed, to me at least, more banal and offensive than anything else, since we were not, in fact (and would not likely ever be) in the position of Troy Davis. And while in this case too, I understand the sentiment and appreciate the real compassion underlying the suggestion — or the no-doubt-soon-to-be-witnessed insertion of Trayvon Martin’s name in many a Facebook profile handle — I feel that perhaps we who are white should remind ourselves, before we jump on either bandwagon, that unfortunately, we are much less like Trayvon Martin and much more like George Zimmerman.

And that is the problem.

http://www.timwise.org/2012/03/tray...-unacceptable-burden-of-blackness-in-america/
 
We don't know why Trayvon was killed. There is also no evidance saying Trayvon raised his hood after he was seen. YOU are assuming he was killed because he was black. Zimmerman says he shot him because Trayvon attacked him.

The FBI and US Department of justice are investigating. It's not going to a grand jury.

Unless every single person who has ever looked at this case is racist. I would say you were incorrect.
Trayvon was on the phone with his girlfriend before he was killed:

"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...death-recounts/story?id=15959017#.T4OCJ5pAbf0
 

Did you really just link an article by a man who profits off of racism. Whose entire gimick is white guilt, white privlage and hate speech?

I have read the article. Nowhere in that article is there any fact. It's all opinion by a guy who has been slammed by journalists all over the world for being a race bating blow hard.

It would be like me linking you a Fox News article that supports Zimmerman. I wouldn't do it, it's clearly biased.

There is only one side of the argument Tim Wise could EVEN TAKE. He has an agenda, his entire life is an agenda.

Also

"

"Trayvon Martin is dead because George Zimmerman believed his neighborhood needed and deserved to be protected from young black men"
"
Isn't true. His neighborhood is filled with young black families. One of the witnesses, who was also out that night, is a young black teenager.
 
I know what I heard, since I listened to the same recording many times. Zimmerman's a racist POS.


Exactly who are you calling idiots?

There is no doubt that he chased after Travyon because he was black, and therefore suspicious. He didn't shoot Travyon because he's black, but he got into a fight with him because he was black...

We're idiots obviously for seeing the writing on the wall before the audio tapes even hit. You know the common narrative that others try so desperately pretend isn't: that black people by and large will be racially profiled especially in suburbia. And however many experiences are laid bare or stories like Trayvon's make national news, this will be treated as a "tragic accident devoid of racial undertones" by a lone man who really is just a "great guy", which no one can believe would do such a thing. Despite you know the numerous run ins with other people, the frequent calls to the police that never panned out and the "power tripping" like throwing a woman while running illegal security for house parties.
 
Fuck this fucking thread. I can't take this shit anymore! Can we rename this thread "The Carousel?" Because we just keep going around and round in circles.

It is so incredibly easy to dismiss the "racial angle" of this story, when you are not part of the race being consistently, and constantly dismissed the moment we DARE to bring up a clear as day racial injustice.

Zimmerman isn't the only non-black that views black males as a threat. This isn't an isolated incident in which a black male has been racially profiled and accosted by a non-black. It happens all of the god damned time! How do I know this? Because it's happened to me and, literally, millions of other blacks across the country. Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to have that happen to you on a consistent basis? To have people follow you around the store, ask you what you're up to when you're out and about doing your thing, cross to the other side of the street when they see you pass, be one of only a handful of blacks at your job (for) the record, i work at Capcom/Beeline here in Los Angeles, and I am the ONLY black employee in the office)?

The most infuriating thing of all, however, is to have our thoughts and rights hand waved away by non-blacks because the very THOUGHT that we are upset about the ever present racial issues in this country makes them uncomfortable. What's infuriating is that the Sanford PD ran a drug test on the corpse of a 17 year old BOY, and not the man who shot and killed him, only because the man who killed him made the statement that he thought he "was on drugs or something."

What's infuriating is that we are expected to STFU about race, and simply take it, so that non-blacks can sleep better at night believing that we've progressed SO FAR in the paltry 50 odd years since the Civil Rights movement ended. That all of this "racism" we keep harping on about is just in our heads, and, god damn, just stop bringing it up!

My MOTHER wasn't allowed to drink from the whites only fountain, barely a generation ago, I would not have been able to legally marry my wife (who is white). Even now, we still get our fair share of funny looks when we're walking down the street holding hands.

So don't you DARE try to come into this thread and tell any of us that there wasn't a racial element to Trayvon Martin's death. That we shouldn't talk about race, and stop bringing it up. We NEED to talk about this, because our thinking needs to change, and stuffig your fingers in your ears and going, "Oh, Lord, the darkies are pissed about that race stuff AGAIN, let's ignore it" isn't helping to dissolve those racial tensions that you are so fricking quick to declare doesn't exist.

Everyone likes to be heard. NO ONE likes to be dismissed. Walkind down the street at night in a hoodie is not grounds to be harrassed, and killed hy a complete stranger.

This fucking thread...
 
I posted this last week to try and give the people who like to say the "Race Card" is being played some perspective, but dont know if they even bothered reading it.

Well what you dont seem to understand is that for a bunch of us in here this is about our lives not politics.

The ability for us to walk down the street in a nice neighborhood without being assumed to be up to no good.

If Zimmerman is allowed to walk for this shit it sets a terrible precedent, for what the life of an African American is worth.

The investigation was half ass, and more then likely it was because they believed the story of a crazed black person jumping his "victim" and the only thing he could do to save his life was to shoot him.

I have to question if this was to happen to me, would my family get the same bullshit story and half ass police work?
 
Trayvon was on the phone with his girlfriend before he was killed:

"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...death-recounts/story?id=15959017#.T4OCJ5pAbf0

To be completely fair. There is no evidence to state his hoodie was ever up, or ever down. It's all going by Zimemrman saying it was up, and his girlfriend saying it was down.

I would very much love Zimmerman to have done this in NY. So he could be in prison for life.

Sadly, he didn't. It was done in Florida. So it all comes down to if Zimmerman felt he was in danger. Or if Trayvon attacked first. If Zimmerman felt he was in danger, he had every right to shoot Trayvon. Is this fucked up? Yup, but it's Florida, and that's the way it is.
 
It would be nice to have an actual discussion about racial profiling and its consequences, like in this case, but we're still stuck on "it doesn't happen" with some folks like blackface and nyong over here.
 
His entire job as Neighborhood watch captain is to report suspicious behavior around the neighborhood.

Yes, exactly. Trayvon's skin color is what made him suspicious to Zimmerman, because it linked him to earlier criminal activity in the area.

To be completely fair. There is no evidence to state his hoodie was ever up, or ever down. It's all going by Zimemrman saying it was up, and his girlfriend saying it was down.

I would very much love Zimmerman to have done this in NY. So he could be in prison for life.

Sadly, he didn't. It was done in Florida. So it all comes down to if Zimmerman felt he was in danger. Or if Trayvon attacked first. If Zimmerman felt he was in danger, he had every right to shoot Trayvon. Is this fucked up? Yup, but it's Florida, and that's the way it is.

Zimmerman actually needs to have felt a "reasonable" fear, and reasonable is decided by the law. If he feared for his life because he thought Trayvon was a criminal based on his race, that's probably not reasonable. There's other criteria that have to be met before fear justifies killing, of course.
 
So it looks like the Stand Your Ground law will be the main culprit here. Such a retarded law. It's sad that it was even put in place with people not thinking of all the negative situations that could arise from it.

That said, why's white power all over this? I thought one drop rule was the law of the land here in Amuuuurica. Least that's what I was told when it came to Obama.
 
It would be nice to have an actual discussion about racial profiling and its consequences, like in this case, but we're still stuck on "it doesn't happen" with some folks like blackface and nyong over here.

Nobody is saying it doesn't happen. I am saying it did happen and he was stereotyping Trayvon based on his overall look. I am saying there is no evidence at all to support Zimmerman gunning Trayvon down only for being black. If there was, the FBI would have this case damn near closed already. It's not as simple as many of you make it seem.

Zimmerman said he was attacked. Police seem to feel this is the case. FBI feels this is the case. US department feels this is the case. Otherwise the trial would be going to a grand jury. It's not.
 
It would be nice to have an actual discussion about racial profiling and its consequences, like in this case, but we're still stuck on "it doesn't happen" with some folks like blackface and nyong over here.


Don't even waste your time on these clowns. A new duo enters the thread with the same bullshit every week.


Nobody is saying it doesn't happen. I am saying it did happen and he was stereotyping Trayvon based on his overall look. I am saying there is no evidence at all to support Zimmerman gunning Trayvon down only for being black. If there was, the FBI would have this case damn near closed already. It's not as simple as many of you make it seem.

Zimmerman said he was attacked. Police seem to feel this is the case. FBI feels this is the case. US department feels this is the case. Otherwise the trial would be going to a grand jury. It's not.


No one is making that argument dude, you're slinging shit in a room occupied solely by you.


What is with this perceived white guilt shit and the need to constantly defend and interject on bullshit?
 
"Trayvon Martin is dead because George Zimmerman believed his neighborhood needed and deserved to be protected from young black men"

----

"
Isn't true. His neighborhood is filled with young black families. One of the witnesses, who was also out that night, is a young black teenager.

You did nothing to counter what Tim Wise said here. Zims actions are in support of what Tim said, rather than of yours.
 
Nobody is saying it doesn't happen. I am saying it did happen and he was stereotyping Trayvon based on his overall look. I am saying there is no evidence at all to support Zimmerman gunning Trayvon down only for being black. If there was, the FBI would have this case damn near closed already. It's not as simply as many of you make it seem.
Where has anyone said this? Enough with the strawman arguments, please.


People have said that it was one of the reasons why Zimmerman found Martin suspicious, but when has anyone said that it was the reason that Zimmerman pulled the trigger?
Zimmerman said he was attacked. Police seem to feel this is the case. FBI feels this is the case. US department feels this is the case. Otherwise the trial would be going to a grand jury. It's not
That would only be needed for a 1st Degree Murder conviction.
 
Nobody is saying it doesn't happen. I am saying it did happen and he was stereotyping Trayvon based on his overall look. I am saying there is no evidence at all to support Zimmerman gunning Trayvon down only for being black. If there was, the FBI would have this case damn near closed already. It's not as simple as many of you make it seem.

Zimmerman said he was attacked. Police seem to feel this is the case. FBI feels this is the case. US department feels this is the case. Otherwise the trial would be going to a grand jury. It's not.

I haven't seen anyone on GAF try to argue that Zimmerman wishes harm against black people. If he went out to shoot a black person, that would mean there was no fight, and that would be murder. That's not an account anyone has set forth.
 
Where has anyone said this? Enough with the strawman arguments, please

People have said that it was one of the reasons why Zimmerman found Martin suspicious, but when has anyone said that it was the reason that Zimmerman pulled the trigger?That would only be needed for a 1st Degree Murder conviction.

I was linked to an article, by Tim Wise where the entire premise of the article was Zimmerman murdered Trayvon because he was black, period. If you do not support this article, thats fine. The person who posted it does. So no, it's not a strawman argument.
 
If there was such an overwhelming amount of evidence, as people in this thread like to make it seem. That Zimmerman chased down, and murdered Trayvon solely because he was black. The FBI and US department of justice would have this down as an open and shut murder case.

I say, let them do their jobs.


Huh? They are still investigating. I'm not saying Zimmerman is or isn't a racist, but you can't possibly make that call given that their investigation is ongoing.
 
Nobody is saying it doesn't happen. I am saying it did happen and he was stereotyping Trayvon based on his overall look. I am saying there is no evidence at all to support Zimmerman gunning Trayvon down only for being black. If there was, the FBI would have this case damn near closed already. It's not as simple as many of you make it seem.
If that's what you think anyone is saying, you don't even understand the issue. No one thinks he was only motivated by race. No one thinks Zimmerman was just out to lynch a darkie or that he knew ahead of time he wanted to kill someone. No one denies that the hoodie, and looking around, also probably contributed to Zimmerman's erroneous and misguided perception of what Martin was doing.

None of that changes the fact that he assumed a black person wearing a hoodie in that neighborhood was up to no good, which is a racist assumption.
 
Zimmerman said he was attacked. Police seem to feel this is the case. FBI feels this is the case. US department feels this is the case. Otherwise the trial would be going to a grand jury. It's not.

None of this is accurate. That it is not going to a grand jury suggests to me that there will be charges filed.
 
Nobody is saying it doesn't happen. I am saying it did happen and he was stereotyping Trayvon based on his overall look. I am saying there is no evidence at all to support Zimmerman gunning Trayvon down only for being black. If there was, the FBI would have this case damn near closed already. It's not as simple as many of you make it seem.

Zimmerman said he was attacked. Police seem to feel this is the case. FBI feels this is the case. US department feels this is the case.


Wat? This is all conjecture. They have not said anything remotely like that. Get the hell out.


Otherwise the trial would be going to a grand jury. It's not.

That is not true at all.
 
this case damn near closed already. It's not as simple as many of you make it seem.

Zimmerman said he was attacked. Police seem to feel this is the case. FBI feels this is the case. US department feels this is the case. Otherwise the trial would be going to a grand jury. It's not.

I didn't even see this nugget. Dude's credibility and entire argument just went out the window. You can't even pay attention to facts nor properly decipher what a lack of grand jury could mean with the vast amount of articles saying its a moot point. Why would anyone take you seriously?


Straight up circus act type shit around here
 
I was linked to an article, by Tim Wise where the entire premise of the article was Zimmerman murdered Trayvon because he was black, period. If you do not support this article, thats fine. The person who posted it does. So no, it's not a strawman argument.
Blackface: That statement, when taken out of context, can appear to be saying what you are inferring. Yet when it is read in context, in fact, the entire point of the article is that some people are suspicious of other people as a result of the color of their skin.

The statement that you are quoting out of context is really saying that if Martin were another color then Zimmerman would not have found him as suspicious, would not have stalked an unarmed teenager with a loaded firearm, and Martin would be alive today. The author is just using harsh language to drive home that point, which when taken deliberately out of context (as it is now) for the sake of useless debate, can appear to be saying something else entirely.

Blackface, would you agree to at least that much?
 
If that's what you think anyone is saying, you don't even understand the issue. No one thinks he was only motivated by race. No one thinks Zimmerman was just out to lynch a darkie or that he knew ahead of time he wanted to kill someone. No one denies that the hoodie, and looking around, also probably contributed to Zimmerman's erroneous and misguided perception of what Martin was doing.

None of that changes the fact that he assumed a black person wearing a hoodie in that neighborhood was up to no good, which is a racist assumption.

Then people need to stop linking to Tim Wise article. That is what Tim Wise supports. Like i said, it would be like me linking to Fox news article to support my case of Zimmerman. It's foolish.

Yes, I do agree being black, wearing a hoodie, having your hands in your pockets, walking a certain way, WITHOUT A DOUBT played a role in him being followed.

That is a stereotype. A stereotype that exists, unfortunately, because of the amount of crime committed by young black youths wearing that get up. It would be racist if you hated them for it, if you just assumed they had committed a crime, if you were afraid of them.

Zimmerman felt he was suspicious because of this. NOBODY IS SAYING THATS RIGHT. It's not. I am saying he MAY have not rolled up on him and gunned him down because of it.

Why do you feel he was gunned down?
 
I didn't even see this nugget. Dude's credibility and entire argument just went out the window. You can't even pay attention to facts nor properly decipher what a lack of grand jury could mean with the vast amount of articles saying its a moot point. Why would anyone take you seriously?


Straight up circus act type shit around here

If Zimmerman saw him, and planned to gun him down because he was black and wearing a hoodie. Thats 1st degree murder. That was my point. Look at the things I was responding to. Get a clue.

Why do you feel Trayvon was killed?
 
Yes, I do agree being black, wearing a hoodie, having your hands in your pockets, walking a certain way, WITHOUT A DOUBT played a role in him being followed.

That is a stereotype. A stereotype that exists, unfortunately, because of the amount of crime committed by young black youths wearing that get up. It would be racist if you hated them for it, if you just assumed they had committed a crime, if you were afraid of them.

Zimmerman felt he was suspicious because of this.


oh.
 
Then people need to stop linking to Tim Wise article. That is what Tim Wise supports. Like i said, it would be like me linking to Fox news article to support my case of Zimmerman. It's foolish.

Yes, I do agree being black, wearing a hoodie, having your hands in your pockets, walking a certain way, WITHOUT A DOUBT played a role in him being followed.

That is a stereotype. A stereotype that exists, unfortunately, because of the amount of crime committed by young black youths wearing that get up. It would be racist if you hated them for it, if you just assumed they had committed a crime, if you were afraid of them.

Zimmerman felt he was suspicious because of this. NOBODY IS SAYING THATS RIGHT. It's not. I am saying he MAY have not rolled up on him and gunned him down because of it.

Why do you feel he was gunned down?

He was gunned down because Zimmerman is a wannabe cop who has anger issues, he started a chain of events that led to the death of an unarmed black teenager. He was playing the role of vigilante instead of neighborhood watch member, because he decided to get out of his car and give the what for to this suspicious person.


Plant corn you get corn!
 
He was gunned down because Zimmerman is a wannabe cop who has anger issues, he started a chain of events that led to the death of an unarmed black teenager. He was playing the role of vigilante instead of neighborhood watch member, because he decided to get out of his car and give the what for to this suspicious person.

Nah soundscream you don't understand. he had on a get up man a GET UP

He was gunned down because black people wear that get up when they commit crime.
 
Then people need to stop linking to Tim Wise article. That is what Tim Wise supports. Like i said, it would be like me linking to Fox news article to support my case of Zimmerman. It's foolish.
Read Gattsu's post above yours.

Yes, I do agree being black, wearing a hoodie, having your hands in your pockets, walking a certain way, WITHOUT A DOUBT played a role in him being followed.
Fantastic! So you admit Zimmerman internalized racist assumptions. That's all the whole debate is about. So where's your disagreement?

Zimmerman felt he was suspicious because of this. NOBODY IS SAYING THATS RIGHT. It's not.
Again, great! So you admit he was racist and that's wrong. I don't know where the disagreement is now.

I am saying he MAY have not rolled up on him and gunned him down because of it.
I don't understand what you mean by this. If you're trying to argue that counter-factually it might not have happened if anything about Martin was different--the hoodie, looking around, hands in his pockets, ran away, or being black.--you have no way of proving that and it's totally irrelevant to the issue, which is about what did happen and what Zimmerman was thinking.
 
All I know is that if I was in a fight, I would not have skittles and a bottle of ice tea still on my possession. I would have either dropped them or they would have fallen off me during the fight.

Can anyone explain how Trayvon would still have skittles and a bottle of ice tea on him if he was in a fight?

You just have to look at the evidence people, it's all around, smacking you in the face.
 
Then people need to stop linking to Tim Wise article. That is what Tim Wise supports. Like i said, it would be like me linking to Fox news article to support my case of Zimmerman. It's foolish.

Yes, I do agree being black, wearing a hoodie, having your hands in your pockets, walking a certain way, WITHOUT A DOUBT played a role in him being followed.

That is a stereotype. A stereotype that exists, unfortunately, because of the amount of crime committed by young black youths wearing that get up. It would be racist if you hated them for it, if you just assumed they had committed a crime, if you were afraid of them.

Zimmerman felt he was suspicious because of this. NOBODY IS SAYING THATS RIGHT. It's not. I am saying he MAY have not rolled up on him and gunned him down because of it.

Why do you feel he was gunned down?

Zimmerman had more than a stereotype though, he had actual firsthand experience with black people committing crimes. I think that's exactly the reason he called the cops and chased Martin. I think, but am less sure, that the fact that he was fighting a black person made him quicker to resort to deadly force.

Also, since this was an issue back in the day two hours ago, if Zimmerman was affected by an external stereotype or an internal one created by his own experience, that makes race a factor.
 
Taking devils advicate to another angle I see.

Hes only gone in two levels.............must go deeper!

tumblr_lhzidiwqPB1qb62p6o1_400.gif
 
Read Gattsu's post above yours.


Fantastic! So you admit Zimmerman internalized racist assumptions. That's all the whole debate is about. So where's your disagreement?


Again, great! So you admit he was racist and that's wrong. I don't know where the disagreement is now.


I don't understand what you mean by this. If you're trying to argue that counter-factually it might not have happened if anything about Martin was different--the hoodie, looking around, hands in his pockets, ran away, or being black.--you have no way of proving that and it's totally irrelevant to the issue, which is about what did happen and what Zimmerman was thinking.

If Trayvon was wearing a suit I doubt he would be followed.

My point is the death is not race related. It may be anger related, or fake tough guy related. But Trayvon was not gunned down for being black.

Following someone because they fit the typical description of people who have committed crimes around Florida isn't racist. It's sterotyping. It's wrong, but it happens.
 
Then people need to stop linking to Tim Wise article. That is what Tim Wise supports. Like i said, it would be like me linking to Fox news article to support my case of Zimmerman. It's foolish.

Yes, I do agree being black, wearing a hoodie, having your hands in your pockets, walking a certain way, WITHOUT A DOUBT played a role in him being followed.

That is a stereotype. A stereotype that exists, unfortunately, because of the amount of crime committed by young black youths wearing that get up. It would be racist if you hated them for it, if you just assumed they had committed a crime, if you were afraid of them.

Zimmerman felt he was suspicious because of this. NOBODY IS SAYING THATS RIGHT. It's not. I am saying he MAY have not rolled up on him and gunned him down because of it.

Why do you feel he was gunned down?

1. You were banging on that drum before that one person linked that Tim wise article
2. That Tim wise article doesn't even say what you are accusing it of saying
3. Stereotyping is absolutely no excuse for profiling, nor is it rooted in this instance in any sort of fact, regardless, what people have been arguing in this thread before you rolled in with your silly "you're all idiots falling for media bias" was the extent of racial bias in American society, not a single person claimed he was gunned down because Zimmerman was some black hating monster. If anything, your assumption that this is what this thread has been talking about shows how susceptible you are to the manipulations of the "media" or whomever.

Also, grand slam on that "he's innocent, no grand jury!" Knowledge dropping
 
We call that racially profiling.

Racial profiling would be if the race was the only factor involved. It wasn't. It was everything about the situation.

Racial profiling would be if he followd Trayvon weather he was in a suit, basketball gear, hoodie and baggie pants, or a bathing suit.
 
Zimmerman had more than a stereotype though, he had actual firsthand experience with black people committing crimes. I think that's exactly the reason he called the cops and chased Martin. I think, but am less sure, that the fact that he was fighting a black person made him quicker to resort to deadly force.
I've had first hand experience with getting mugged by someone who was hispanic. Does that mean that I look twice when I see a hispanic person walking down the street? Fuck no.

There are assholes out there and some of those assholes may be of a specific ethnicity, religion, political affiliation, gender, nationality, etc. but that doesn't mean that you are excused for looking down at all people of that demographic just because you had negative experiences with some.
Racial profiling would be if the race was the only factor involved. It wasn't. It was everything about the situation.

Racial profiling would be if he followd Trayvon weather he was in a suit, basketball gear, hoodie and baggie pants, or a bathing suit.
jcwat.gif


The classic example of racial profiling is a cop that sees a black man (1) driving a nice looking convertible (2) and pulls him over to find out if he makes his implied wealth (3) through elicit means.
 
Following someone because they fit the typical description of people who have committed crimes around Florida isn't racist. It's sterotyping. It's wrong, but it happens.
It's ethnic stereotyping, which is racism. What he was wearing is irrelevant because Zimmerman would not have bothered if Travyon was white and wearing the same clothes.
 
I thought this was never said in this thread?

I said thats why he was stereotyping Trayvon. Not why he was killed.

You don't understand sarcasm well, huh?

Oh that makes it better, he was stereotyped "because black people wear that get up" (i.e. hoodie, skittles and a tea) while committing crime.

I don't know who's worse, Geraldo for outright saying it, or you tap dancing around the shit like it makes it any better.



Racial profiling would be if the race was the only factor involved. It wasn't. It was everything about the situation.

Racial profiling would be if he followd Trayvon weather he was in a suit, basketball gear, hoodie and baggie pants, or a bathing suit.


Oh god. Please stop. It hurts man.



The pain -- my ribs
 
If Trayvon was wearing a suit I doubt he would be followed.

My point is the death is not race related. It may be anger related, or fake tough guy related. But Trayvon was not gunned down for being black.

Following someone because they fit the typical description of people who have committed crimes around Florida isn't racist. It's sterotyping. It's wrong, but it happens.

If he fit the description, you would be right. However the only part of the description Trayvon Martin fit was that he was black like the suspect in the robbery.
 
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