Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
I would think it's almost confirmed they won't. Their articles have been whining that they made a mistake reprinting them for a while now.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Magic: The Gathering |OT|
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
- Status
I would think it's almost confirmed they won't. Their articles have been whining that they made a mistake reprinting them for a while now.
So I finished 3-2 in our any-set-goes draft today. Put together a green-red beatdown deck that was pretty much all mid-game with a Ulmog's Crusher as my bomb. I should have been 4-1 really, as I beat myself in game 3 of my first round by playing super poorly in the last turn.
If any of you are looking for a good way to spice up drafting, do that. It's so much fun.
If any of you are looking for a good way to spice up drafting, do that. It's so much fun.
Yeah it is pretty much set in stone that they will not be in M13
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I sold mine, what, a week and a half ago? They're half the price now than they were then. Sell now.
FreedomFrisbee
Member
Ya, foil vexing devils showed up everywhere. We had 3 foils floating around, and that regular one was the only one I could find.
It was a 4/4 buffed with +1/+1 counters. It was a funny situation.
I didn't go to the midnight prerelease, but it had around 65 people, so the last people left around 8:30 am. We had 42 for the daytime prerelease today, I ended up 5-1 at 3rd place, winning 11 packs. Afterward a bunch of us went to a friend's place to bullshit, eat, and drink. I love prereleases. This is what I played.
Fervent Cathar
Mad Prophet
Harvester of Souls
2 Polluted Dead
2 Renegade Demon
Dread Slaver
Soulcage Fiend
Nettle Swine
Nightshade Peddler
Howlgeist
Wildwood Geist
Pathbreaker Wurm
Wolfir Avenger
Borderland Ranger
Somberwald Sage
2 Pillar of Flame
Thunderbolt
Human Frailty
Sheltering Word
Revenge of the Hunted
3 Mountains
7 Swamps
7 Forests
Same. I only had the one, but it was fantastic for me.
Fervent Cathar
Mad Prophet
Harvester of Souls
2 Polluted Dead
2 Renegade Demon
Dread Slaver
Soulcage Fiend
Nettle Swine
Nightshade Peddler
Howlgeist
Wildwood Geist
Pathbreaker Wurm
Wolfir Avenger
Borderland Ranger
Somberwald Sage
2 Pillar of Flame
Thunderbolt
Human Frailty
Sheltering Word
Revenge of the Hunted
3 Mountains
7 Swamps
7 Forests
I actually won the prerelease today!In my prize packs I got a Tibalt, foil griselbrand, and a cavern of souls. I'm pretty happy.
Edit: Those green flash regen 3/3 wolves or whatever are AMAZING. It won me so many games.
Same. I only had the one, but it was fantastic for me.
Ya when I pulled a regular Tamiyo in my pool first thing I said was "I already won the draft, now I'm pretty much playing for bonus." It's a good feeling when you basically get more in value than what you paid (a lot more in your case ha) and essentially get a free tournament.
Why did Sword of War and Peace prices go up by a LOT since NP launch?
Not that I am complaining, I will try to sell one locally, thanks to that (and also 2 mox opals, hopefully they keep retaining their good price), but I remember vividly how everyone said that it is going to be the weakest sword of all...
Not that I am complaining, I will try to sell one locally, thanks to that (and also 2 mox opals, hopefully they keep retaining their good price
), but I remember vividly how everyone said that it is going to be the weakest sword of all...A combination of 3rd set syndrome (less packs opened), an influx of players with Innistrad, and the hexproof overkill making it trivial to just smack someone in the face for a billion damage.Why did Sword of War and Peace prices go up by a LOT since NP launch?
Not that I am complaining, I will try to sell one locally, thanks to that (and also 2 mox opals, hopefully they keep retaining their good price
Prerelease was great!
I got a foil cavern of souls (which I traded with a friend for an Avacyn at the end, yeah probably not that great a trade, but I really wanted Avacyn
), a normal cavern of souls, entreat of the angels and a vexing devil.
I placed 6 out of 20, which I thought was pretty good since I don't play magic that often. I used a rather simple strategy I read up online, that is pick four 2cc five 3cc and five 4cc creatures plus one or two bigger creatures but nothing above 6cc. I played with 18 lands and a few spells. I was playing blue white and I ended up with more than half my deck being flyers. The downside was my deck was really aggressive and I either won or lost within a really short time whereas everybody else seemed to be playing slow decks and their matches dragged on forever. So I spent most of the time watching others play.
I definitely think seraph of dawn is one of the best commons in this set. 2/4 flyer with lifelink for 4cc is really great.
I got a foil cavern of souls (which I traded with a friend for an Avacyn at the end, yeah probably not that great a trade, but I really wanted Avacyn
), a normal cavern of souls, entreat of the angels and a vexing devil. I placed 6 out of 20, which I thought was pretty good since I don't play magic that often. I used a rather simple strategy I read up online, that is pick four 2cc five 3cc and five 4cc creatures plus one or two bigger creatures but nothing above 6cc. I played with 18 lands and a few spells. I was playing blue white and I ended up with more than half my deck being flyers. The downside was my deck was really aggressive and I either won or lost within a really short time whereas everybody else seemed to be playing slow decks and their matches dragged on forever. So I spent most of the time watching others play.
I definitely think seraph of dawn is one of the best commons in this set. 2/4 flyer with lifelink for 4cc is really great.
So apparently there's people on reddit and other Magic forums saying that their Helvaults contained foil Judge angel/demon themed cards like Demonic Tutor, Exalted Angel, Decree of Justice, etc and foil tokens of the double sided angel/demon tokens.
Having only pulled the normal crap out of my own LGS Helvault, I'm a little pissed that a random small number of Helvaults contained 54 foil Judge promos while the majority of them contained useless crap. Ugh.
Having only pulled the normal crap out of my own LGS Helvault, I'm a little pissed that a random small number of Helvaults contained 54 foil Judge promos while the majority of them contained useless crap. Ugh.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Did a lot better with my pre-release deck than last time; went 2-4. Next time will be better I bet!
Notable rares/MRs:
Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Cavern of Souls
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Sigarda, Host of Heroins (traded for her)
Was a pretty alright day in all respects. Sold the Cavern of Souls for $22, bought a few boosters with that, got a Snapcaster Mage.
Notable rares/MRs:
Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Cavern of Souls
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Sigarda, Host of Heroins (traded for her)
Was a pretty alright day in all respects. Sold the Cavern of Souls for $22, bought a few boosters with that, got a Snapcaster Mage.
Ooccoo
Member
Prerelease was great!
I got a foil cavern of souls (which I traded with a friend for an Avacyn at the end, yeah probably not that great a trade, but I really wanted Avacyn
I placed 6 out of 20, which I thought was pretty good since I don't play magic that often. I used a rather simple strategy I read up online, that is pick four 2cc five 3cc and five 4cc creatures plus one or two bigger creatures but nothing above 6cc. I played with 18 lands and a few spells. I was playing blue white and I ended up with more than half my deck being flyers. The downside was my deck was really aggressive and I either won or lost within a really short time whereas everybody else seemed to be playing slow decks and their matches dragged on forever. So I spent most of the time watching others play.
I definitely think seraph of dawn is one of the best commons in this set. 2/4 flyer with lifelink for 4cc is really great.
Your friend must be laughing. That land will be worth around $50 foil.
There will always be suckers and choosers.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Are there pictures? Stuff like that I'm honestly calling bullshit until there's actual proof.
FreedomFrisbee
Member
I've seen pictures of the foil big cards and tokens. Only seen direct feed Demonic Tutors tho.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Ah, ok.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
White ended up being a lot less potent in Limited then I thought it would be. Black was pretty universally weak it seemed, but the disproportionate number of large white flyers only screwed us over in one game despite every opponent running white as at least one of their colors, and the time that it did it was actually just a couple of the 2/4 lifelinkers that we couldn't deal with.
What a disappointing pre-release. My cards were terrible, built a awful deck and stupidly only revamped after two loses. By the time I smartened up and switched to white/red and won my last two matches handily, it was too late. Teach me to find out if we are doing 4 rounds or 5 before I play.
I did pull the blue planeswalker which I sold for $30 store credit and then only made about $20 back in card profit from the packs I opened. But I did get a vexing devil from the packs I got for store credit, which at least is a card I'd play with (unlike the planeswalker).
GF pulled a foil Gisella, a vexing devil, a terminus, and some kid traded her a foil thunderous wrath (10 bucks!) for a pack of 50 sleeves we received as a door prize! She managed to walk away with 55 bucks worth of cards, the lucky twat.
Oh and from our draft on friday, one of the nerdiest pictures ever taken.
I did pull the blue planeswalker which I sold for $30 store credit and then only made about $20 back in card profit from the packs I opened. But I did get a vexing devil from the packs I got for store credit, which at least is a card I'd play with (unlike the planeswalker).
GF pulled a foil Gisella, a vexing devil, a terminus, and some kid traded her a foil thunderous wrath (10 bucks!) for a pack of 50 sleeves we received as a door prize! She managed to walk away with 55 bucks worth of cards, the lucky twat.
Oh and from our draft on friday, one of the nerdiest pictures ever taken.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
echoshifting
Banned
Yeah, this was my impression as well. Hardly anyone ran black and white was tricky due to the expensive flyers. I don't think I ever lost a match to white. I pulled two favorable winds, but I still didn't play white because the cheapest white flyer I had was 5cc, and I only pulled a grand total of 10-11 white cards. Green seemed to do really, really well though, especially when paired with red. G/R and G/B are going to be pretty popular in standard and limited. The guy who placed first had G/R, and my friend who placed second ran G/B. I really wanted to run green to negate enemy flyers, but the cards just weren't there. I probably still should have splashed it, but I was pretty nervous due to it being my first time. Next time I'll be better prepared, for sure.
Also, favorable winds is utterly ridiculous in limited, especially with those ravens. I had three of 'em, if I drew at least two and one FW the game was basically over.
So, I'm successfully infinite on MODO drafting with a mid-1700s limited rating (which is fairly low and equates to something like a ~60% win/loss rate.)
I'll write a little guide on it once I'm done with my project. It's fairly simple though, and basically boils down to
1: TONS of practice
2: Do the statistics yourself (opened value of packs you're drafting: NPH is nearly double DKA)
3: Rare draft anything over $2, unless there's an absolute bomb being thrown at you (like, Corrupted Conscience). It's absurd how many people will pass, say, Green Sun's Zenith in a limited game, when it's worth over 3 tix to any sell bot and basically pays for your pack.
I'll write a little guide on it once I'm done with my project. It's fairly simple though, and basically boils down to
1: TONS of practice
2: Do the statistics yourself (opened value of packs you're drafting: NPH is nearly double DKA)
3: Rare draft anything over $2, unless there's an absolute bomb being thrown at you (like, Corrupted Conscience). It's absurd how many people will pass, say, Green Sun's Zenith in a limited game, when it's worth over 3 tix to any sell bot and basically pays for your pack.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yeah, we ended up doing a R/W deck because we have great red early game and great white late game and almost nothing visa versa. It worked out pretty well.
That was exactly my problem. I went with white/black at first because I had some decent kill in black but I had zero early game, good mid game, and then nothing late game. Switching to red/white gave me early game and mid game but I still didn't have anything for late game. I got exactly zero fatties or bombs :/
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yeah, we were pretty low on late game bombs in R/W as well. It was meant to be the striker deck with U/G as support, but the U/G deck ended up closing out both games, once with complete control of their board thanks to Deadeye Navigator and Mist Raven, and the second time with an unblockable alpha-strike thanks to Champion of Lambholt. R/W ironically ended up being more of the support deck since its where our removal was concentrated.
I really really like flickering in this set by the way. Champion of Lambholt and the green guy who gives a +1/+1 counter as ETB along with some flicker affects help the Champion get very large very quickly.
echoshifting
Banned
With all the flying buffs, I swear that mist raven is the nastiest common the limited environment has seen in quite some time.
FreedomFrisbee
Member
I found that w/r and w/g were the best combos. Having gone r/u 0-4 the first pre-release, and then 3-1 when I switched to w/g I can attest to this. The r/u build was only really because I only got 8 white cards.
Soulbonding shit seemed to be the way to go.
Also I found that soulbond was AWFUL in that half the people didn't understand it at all which led to a lot of confusion and arguments. Several matches in the first two rounds probably could have gone the other way for people if their opponents hadn't been playing soulbond improperly (moving the soulbond to every creature that entered the battlefield). You saw a lot of kids get early wins and then their deck would fall apart once they had to play soulbond correctly.
Little Old Man
Member
Do we have the deck lists for the AVR event decks yet? I can only find the lists for the intro decks.
Not yet. From the boxes we know one is mono black and the other U/W with the X(W) damage redirect rare (the black one has a common on the front).
I went 4-1 today with W/B. I think black is a great second colour, Demonic Taskmaster is an amazing beater on turn 3 and it has some of the best removal with Death Wind, Barter in Blood, Bone Splinters etc. I had a lot of big angels and life gain, as well as the Moonsilver Spear (which is amazing) and Avacyn so I had pulled well.
I found and saw a lot of board stalls, complicated combat maths and evasion races. The more aggressive decks (normally based around soul bound) are definitely in a race in kill the other guy before he casts anything above 4 as they can grind to a halt against lifegain or a big body. There are some good finishers like the red haste steal your dude guy who can get the last big hit in though.
It's much worse than merely being random. They chose higher earning stores to be randomly distribute "premium" helvaults to. If you went to a smaller store you had 0% chance at more than a dice and other junk while those at larger stores had a booster-pack style chance of their whole store "winning". This helps out more successful stores and punishes the less earning and possibly even struggling ones. If you're a regular at a small store but have a larger store nearby, why not pay the same amount for the chance of getting something awesome?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Oh shit
Little Old Man
Member
I'll be interested in seeing what they've done for both. Hope details get released in the next couple of days.
Having a random spread of Helvaults packed with superior prizes is fine, because it would have been just that: random. Actually manipulating it so the best performing stores get the better packs is just a poor show by WOC. Especially for those making a big effort to get to a store with a prerelease!
The bottom line with the Helvault was that nobody was told that there would be anything specific in them, so nobody had any rights to set expectations.
It was free for an event that was already happening, an added perk that the stores did not have to pay more for and nor would the customer (though I heard that some stores did charge more but that is on them)
If stores that do more business get higher odds of a better vault, why is this a cause for drama?
People need to think of this the next time that they buy a box online instead of at their lgs or maybe they need to find a better lgs.
Mine had the plain Helvault and I could not give a shit less.
I was going to the prerelease as always already for the same reason that I always do, for the early cards so anything was just an added bonus.
If people need to be bribed to go to events, fuck them because they are not going to support the store anyway.
It was free for an event that was already happening, an added perk that the stores did not have to pay more for and nor would the customer (though I heard that some stores did charge more but that is on them)
If stores that do more business get higher odds of a better vault, why is this a cause for drama?
People need to think of this the next time that they buy a box online instead of at their lgs or maybe they need to find a better lgs.
Mine had the plain Helvault and I could not give a shit less.
I was going to the prerelease as always already for the same reason that I always do, for the early cards so anything was just an added bonus.
If people need to be bribed to go to events, fuck them because they are not going to support the store anyway.
Exactly, I drove an hour and a half to a small store because my friend knows the owner and the last time I was there he was friendly, helpful, and went out of his way to make his shop a nice experience. Both his shop and it's customers are being punished for not having gone to the big store far closer that might have had a premium helavault.
Little Old Man
Member
I don't imagine many who go to prereleases need 'bribes' to go, and to them the Helvault was just a nice little extra they could get something from as it was for you. But the contents of them should still have been fair- every store having the same chance of getting a superior pack. That is why people seem to be annoyed to me. Since no one really knew what was in the packs, nor that there were different types, everyone assumed they were the same and so went to their favourite shop which had a Helvault, be it small or large in revenue terms. Therefore it served no benefit by giving better ones to bigger stores, since everyone believed they could go to any store with a Helvault and it would hold the same stuff.
echoshifting
Banned
Wow. That's bullshit. I can't believe they did that.
...please tell me there weren't helvaults that didn't even have the EDH angels...
edit: the devil's advocate in me can't help but point out that people already have an incentive to go to large stores for bigger prize pools and more formal competition (I mean I placed 25th and I still got a prize booster, and some of the best players in the state were in the store for the prerelease), so the people who care the most about that stuff probably went to one of the larger stores anyway. That said, I am incredibly disappointed in WotC and I wish I had been a fly on the wall when this decision was made.
edit2: you know, the more I think about it, the more I think that the fact people already have good incentives to go to larger stores just makes this worse
Just think of it this way. If you have access to two stores, a small one that is guaranteed to have junk in their promotions and an "advanced" (big) one that has a chance at getting awesome, $100+ judge promos... which are you going to choose? Especially for future promotions if the big one was lucky enough to hit the jackpot. Prereleases and releases are important for stores and if you're already having a hard time you don't deserve to lose customers due to wizards intervening.
Buying a box cheaper online is completely different than this. The assumption with prereleases is every store is given equal prize support. If the store wants to take a hit and charge less for entrants then it's on them. This is wizards giving free incentives to already successful stores.
I support the hell out of my small LGS. I'm one of the few regulars who drafts 3 or 4 times a month but even I would be tempted to do my prereleases at a larger store (if one existed where I live) if I had the chance at $100 promos.
Yup, my friends and I have always supporting smaller stores but if we knew there was a chance of getting a judge promo at one of the larger stores I guarantee we'd all go there. It's one thing if it was just another small extra prize, but a judge promo can be a big deal. The extended art promo Doran is a $250 card now.
divisionbyzorro
Member
So I decided to do an M12 draft in MTGO, since I already had that free M12 booster and just wanted to get a feel for what drafting online was like. I drafted what I thought was a decent green/black deck, and got paired up in the first match against someone else drafted a better green/black deck. We stalled out for a half hour in game one (my timer was down to 10 minutes) before he finally broke through with Onyx Mage). Game two I just kinda rushed through because I figured my odds of winning two in a row with that little time were too low. C'est la vie. No packs for me.
I didn't get anything terribly great; I got a Birds of Paradise, and raredrafted an Honor of the Pure and a Glacial Fortress. I'm considering selling them off; I know there are bots in MTGO that buy cards - but how do I do this?
I didn't get anything terribly great; I got a Birds of Paradise, and raredrafted an Honor of the Pure and a Glacial Fortress. I'm considering selling them off; I know there are bots in MTGO that buy cards - but how do I do this?
The thing is though that stores become higher tier by selling more boxes, by getting more butts in chairs for events and making larger orders.
I think that Wizards will just not do any extras anymore after this.
People were bitching like crazy and hating on wizards when they found out that it was just the oversized cards , dice and tokens and saying that they were not going to go and fuck wizards.
Now many of the same people are bitching saying that they would have gone if they knew there was better stuff.
That is crap.
Yes I actually do agree that it kind of sucks that some stores got better stuff but again, since nobody was supposed to know ahead of time what was in them it should have been a non issue.
I think by giving bigger stores the better stuff they are hurting smaller stores.
I love how you assume so much without any actual kind of solid ground to stand on. The Helvault was hyped to hell by Wizards themselves for a month before the actual prerelease, stating that it would be remembered for years to come. While they were given to stores as a freebie a lot of stores still chose to charge more for events because of it. I go to the majority of prereleases anyway but the way this was handled was utterly shit so before you tell people to get fucked maybe you should consider that not everyone is okay with getting worthless shit and defending a company that did nothing for them.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
It was a non issue THIS TIME, anytime after that you already planted the seed that a bigger store may get better stuff "just because" since it's not truly random which is moronic. That's stabbing all the smaller stores in the back which there is no need to. Make it truly random, there is absolutely zero problem.
Edit: I got 3rd at another prerelease today and got 5 prize packs but got all shit. No good rares from any of them.
Used up all my luck yesterday it seems.Go to classifieds and search the card you're looking to sell in the search box. For lesser valued cards it may be hard to find bots who advertise they're buying them so it's usually best to hold off until you have a decent valued card. I'll save you some time so you don't get disappointed trying to find good value - cards on MTGO sell for a lot less than the paper counterparts. You might get barely anything for the cards you listed even if they're worth 2-4 dollars each in real life. MTGO effectively has a convenience tax for drafters.
But if they're already successful then why is wizards trying to give them more butts-in-chairs at the expense of the less successful stores? If prize distribution is equal, including promos like the helvault, then I'll usually go to the smaller store as long as the owner is tolerable and the place isn't a dump. If they start giving potentially huge incentives for going to a larger store then I'd start going there more often.
I don't want them to stop trying new things but this was handled about as poorly as possible. If they tweaked this and publicly said that the next prerelease would have equal chances at getting awesome promos for every store then I'd be really excited about it.
Those people who were pissed about what was included might redirect their feelings towards the store and just go to a bigger one next time they do something like this. People will continue to attend these events so wizards won't take a hit. The hit will be felt by the small stores.
Naw, people were going to find out eventually but now people feel cheated from wizards being so vague about it.
I have plenty of solid ground.
It was hyped as it should have been, are companies not supposed to hype events that they invest money in?
Expecting them not to is absurd.
Have you never been on the gaming side when there is an epic announcement coming?
Every time coke or pepsi are releasing something new and hype it all to hell even though it suck whe it comes out it is no different.
People set their own expectations and got burnt, period.
If some stores charged more, then that store sucks but that is not on wizards, people should bitch at their stores.
You especially say you go to most pre-releases, so you got everything you normally get PLUS MORE for nothing (unless your lgs sucks).
So I am sorry if I have no sympathy, especially for people who admit they would have gone anyway if there was no Helvault because the added free stuff that you got did not live up to your standards.
It was a non issue THIS TIME, anytime after that you already planted the seed that a bigger store may get better stuff "just because" since it's not truly random which is moronic. That's stabbing all the smaller stores in the back which there is no need to. Make it truly random, there is absolutely zero problem.
Edit: I got 3rd at another prerelease today and got 5 prize packs but got all shit. No good rares from any of them.
That is the problem, Wizards has no screwed smaller stores, because players will not look first for bigger stores.
This was stupid, the Vault should have been the same all around in my opinion.
I can understand how bigger stores would get the perks in some cases but this was poor foresight.
This is not about the Helvault itself though this is about them making them unequal.
- Status