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[RepairmanJack]

Gunbo, do you play any FPS, RTS, or MOBAs?

Also, they have said there will be more game modes as they've tested tons, just not at launch as they want to focus on one. They don't want the community split right off the bat like GW1 due to so many game modes.

That's what I meant by now. They did talk about a lot of other gametype possibilies, but on the forums they seemed to avoid the entire subject. It just seemed a little odd.

I expect them to come out with other types, but the impression they gave on the forums made it seem like it would be a long while. At least that's what I got from them sort of avoiding the issue and just talking up the current gametype.

 

[fluffydelusions]

Purely selfish reasons I wouldn't mind at all if this was released Post-July.

OK with this considering D3 will consume me for quite a while.

 

[gunbo13]

Gunbo, do you play any FPS, RTS, or MOBAs?

Very coy...but I'll work with it.

I'm not being unrealistic in expecting some level of player level strats in the PvP of an MMO. As I said, the barrier isn't the modes (which would be relevant to your response) but the chaos of the battle system. Even so, those genres often have player-level strats. Take out that sniper, prioritize those drones, etc... From the videos, all that is being shown is positioning level strats which is skin to take that bunker, move to the fogged area, etc... It's half the equation, half of the depth.

So I would say I am seeing less strategy at times then those other genres. This is more like Unreal Tournament then Battlefield. It is mindless except for the saving grace that positioning strats are key. Even if you have a high level of team skill that doesn't change the strat level. You just have better deathmatch players which is utter nonsense.

The current chaotic state is IMO a flaw and not even a design choice. That's why people have voiced concerns and the developers have responded. If that flaw is not addressed, then you have to really like positioning strats and devolving into UT deathmatch during encounters not completely objective based. In fact, it might be an improvement to assign defense/offense roles at times to remove the mindlessness. At least there is enhanced coordination with forced objectives. It's looks like somewhat of a mess.

This has nothing to do with something I want that doesn't exist. This has to do with properly implementing what DOES exist. And right now the glass is half empty only because they haven't filled the damn thing.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

Have to agree, the few capture the point PVP games I played it was just a big merry-go-run with a zerg group following another zerg group. Sometimes we'd bump into each other at the 'neutral' point, but other than that it was just circles.

At the time I put it down to it being the BWE and people being unfamiliar with it all. However, I'm not sure how or were it'd ever change so it wasn't just a circle chasing affair.

 

[RepairmanJack]

Very coy...but I'll work with it.

I'm not being unrealistic in expecting some level of player level strats in the PvP of an MMO. As I said, the barrier isn't the modes (which would be relevant to your response) but the chaos of the battle system. Even so, those genres often have player-level strats. Take out that sniper, prioritize those drones, etc... From the videos, all that is being shown is positioning level strats which is skin to take that bunker, move to the fogged area, etc... It's half the equation, half of the depth.

So I would say I am seeing less strategy at times then those other genres. This is more like Unreal Tournament then Battlefield. It is mindless except for the saving grave that positioning strats are key. Even if you have a high level of team skill that doesn't change the strat level. You just have better deathmatch players which is utter nonsense.

The current chaotic state is IMO a flaw and not even a design choice. That's why people have voiced concerns and the developers have responded. If that flaw is not addressed, then you have to really like positioning strats and devolving into UT deathmatch during encounters not completely objective based. In fact, it might be an improvement to assign defense/offense roles at times to remove the mindlessness. At least there is enhanced coordination with forced objectives. It's looks like somewhat of a mess.

This has nothing to do with something I want that doesn't exist. This has to do with properly implementing what DOES exist. And right now the glass is half empty only because they haven't filled the damn thing.

This is one thing that I honestly think will just take time for the players to pick up. All the games that this applys to you can easily distinguish the threats almost immediately. In GW2 it's a little harder as each build can be pretty different. There is just no quick way to tell right now where to aim the focus on at the moment. Another main reason for this is we don't know which classes and builds will become the big threats to target.

As soon as it gets to a high level of gameplay we will most likely be able to tell a players build by his weapon eventually. So I can see it getting to a point where as soon as we see a Mesmer with a staff(for example) we will instantly know he's likely going with a certain build. It's just not to that point yet. MOBA'S take a while to flesh out the meta game but once it is done you can typically guess the teams gameplan by their heros and positioning. RTS it's the same way you can spot the buildings their starting and guess what build they are starting and plan from there, but these all had to develop over time.

We won't get this stuff in the beta, as long as we can see a clear gap in skill it's a good sign to me at this point.

 

[gunbo13]

This is one thing that I honestly think will just take time for the players to pick up. All the games that this applys to you can easily distinguish the threats almost immediately. In GW2 it's a little harder as each build can be pretty different. There is just no quick way to tell right now where to aim the focus on at the moment. Another main reason for this is we don't know which classes and builds will become the big threats to target.

As soon as it gets to a high level of gameplay we will most likely be able to tell a players build by his weapon eventually. So I can see it getting to a point where as soon as we see a Mesmer with a staff(for example) we will instantly know he's likely going with a certain build. It's just not to that point yet. MOBA'S take a while to flesh out the meta game but once it is done you can typically guess the teams gameplan by their heros and positioning. RTS it's the same way you can spot the buildings their starting and guess what build they are starting and plan from there, but these all had to develop over time.

We won't get this stuff in the beta, as long as we can see a clear gap in skill it's a good sign to me at this point.

Good response and plausible. Visual chaos makes visual indication a serious issue. And if GW2 is going to cement itself as requiring such indicators, it has to let you see the damn things. Unless that barrier is cleared, it doesn't matter how good the players are. Unless maybe you have a team of jedi. Obi-Wan, you are our only hope...at finding the stupid ass ele spammer.

I'll readily state that I missed the BWE. But here is a simple example that is not reliant. In player-strat heavy based PvP, voice chatter occurs more often "during" the fights then in-between. Outside fight = "Go to the tower." Inside fight = "OMG OMG OMG." Here, we have easily distinguishable MMO vets on cam. And you know what you hear during the fights? Mostly silence. At best you will hear a retreat/positional strat call or a revive me. It's often easy to state that if you have imbalanced chatter, then something is wrong. And I'm seeing something wrong.

The other point here is why that "run-away" video posted is cool. That's because they had TIME. Time to call casts, counter enemies, call more player-based strats, etc... The mob wars is the antagonist of time and turns into a bunch of rocket jumping UT players. However, this is probably not going to be fixable. It's just a by-product of the game style and an example of something I want yet isn't in the cards. But once you shred down the time and add poor visual indication? Well, you get what you are seeing in the videos. Pretty simple.

So I only hope they fix the one that can be fixed. Then player skill has to seriously ramp up to accommodate the game pace. There will be trade-offs though I'm sure. You aren't going to get a ton of people able to process information that quickly. So instead of target this guy, it might be support the left side. Or instead of stop his casts, it might be lay down AoE spell X to mess up this casting area. It's all about how much depth you want in your game. Some people will be content with just position strats and small OTF strats during mob wars. I'm just not one of them.

 

[RepairmanJack]

Good response and plausible. Visual chaos makes visual indication a serious issue. And if GW2 is going to cement itself as requiring such indicators, it has to let you see the damn things. Unless that barrier is cleared, it doesn't matter how good the players are. Unless maybe you have a team of jedi. Obi-Wan, you are our only hope...at finding the stupid ass ele spammer.

This was one of the most requested things in PvP and WvW from what I saw. Some visual indicator of the apposing players class. Usually weapon, at least the one being used at the time, is usually easy to tell.

I'll readily state that I missed the BWE. But here is a simple example that is not reliant. In player-strat heavy based PvP, voice chatter occurs more often "during" the fights then in-between. Outside fight = "Go to the tower." Inside fight = "OMG OMG OMG." Here, we have easily distinguishable MMO vets on cam. And you know what you hear during the fights? Mostly silence. At best you will hear a retreat/positional strat call or a revive me. It's often easy to state that if you have imbalanced chatter, then something is wrong. And I'm seeing something wrong.

I get this at the moment and I get your point. But over time I can see how this can become more needed. With things like combo attacks, coordinated stuns and cc's, and which conditions to throw out communication will be needed a lot more later on. I think this is again due to beta, players were just grasping their own classes let alone the builds and classes in their teams and how they can benefit from their roles. I think this type of thing will develop over time as well, but we will just have to see. I just really don't see this turning into a crazy free for all in a team setting. The things needed are there they are just not being utilized fully.

The other point here is why that "run-away" video posted is cool. That's because they had TIME. Time to call casts, counter enemies, call more player-based strats, etc... The mob wars is the antagonist of time and turns into a bunch of rocket jumping UT players. However, this is probably not going to be fixable. It's just a by-product of the game style and an example of something I want yet isn't in the cards. But once you shred down the time and add poor visual indication? Well, you get what you are seeing in the videos. Pretty simple.

I am not sure what video you are referring to?

So I only hope they fix the one that can be fixed. Then player skill has to seriously ramp up to accommodate the game pace. There will be trade-offs though I'm sure. You aren't going to get a ton of people able to process information that quickly. So instead of target this guy, it might be support the left side. Or instead of stop his casts, it might be lay down AoE spell X to mess up this casting area. It's all about how much depth you want in your game. Some people will be content with just position strats and small OTF strats during mob wars. I'm just not one of them.

That's exactly why I am liking the style of the sPvP. The level of skill and play level is definitely there. I think someone can go in at a lower end level and still have fun but I think the skill and strats can be used at a high end level to really make the game shine. It's just if the game get's that esport userbase to take it to that level. This is where I think they are kind of flopping with only one game type. I don't think they needed to release a death match, but something like a ctf or a forced defense type game would have worked great.

I have high hopes from what I saw so far. I will know more from the next beta as I plan on spending most of my time in PvP and WvW.

 

[gunbo13]

I am not sure what video you are referring to?

Awesome WvW video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaS5kJAq6Tc

That's exactly why I am liking the style of the sPvP. The level of skill and play level is definitely there. I think someone can go in at a lower end level and still have fun but I think the skill and strats can be used at a high end level to really make the game shine.

All I can say is, I hope so. I play some games that require absolute perfection with visual indicators and seeing the WvW footage worries even me. It really is chaotic and ANET needs to address it. I also hope they fight the open-terrain deathmatching with set-pieces, terrain design, dynamic events, etc... I just don't see the need for the civil war type stand-offs. It just doesn't work well with GW2's system.

 

[Dynamic3]

I'm confused, If I preorder today can I still get in the beta, and does it last longer than three days?

 

[RepairmanJack]

All I can say is, I hope so. I play some games that require absolute perfection with visual indicators and seeing the WvW footage worries even me. It really is chaotic and ANET needs to address it. I also hope they fight the open-terrain deathmatching with set-pieces, terrain design, dynamic events, etc... I just don't see the need for the civil war type stand-offs. It just doesn't work well with GW2's system.

Ah, yeah I just don't look at WvW to be competitive in the same way I look at sPvP. I just look at is as big group fun. Hence you don't get all your skills and traits in WvW and you also carry over your PvE gear.

I'm confused, If I preorder today can I still get in the beta, and does it last longer than three days?

Certain retailers and you have to Pre-purchase, paid in full. Beta's last over the weekend and they plan on having roughly once a month until release.

 

[KKRT00]

This was one of the most requested things in PvP and WvW from what I saw. Some visual indicator of the apposing players class. Usually weapon, at least the one being used at the time, is usually easy to tell.

Yep, this is the biggest issue for me, but i know that its hard to make proper spell animations that are also clear indications of effects. I think that only PVP games i've played that have done it right are Lineage 2 and Leagues of Legends.
Lineage 2 is brilliant in spell designs and a second You see the effect, You exactly know what spell and what class hit You. Even buffs from supports are clear and You could see effects of that spells for a second, icons are great designed too.
Guild Wars 2 unfortunately looks like total clusterfuck with many spells looking the same or really similar, especially aoe auras.

 

[Retro]

I take it you saw the Elder Scrolls MMO?

Oh god, I read through the list of features and it was like "Really? This is how you want to do an Elder Scrolls MMO?" I don't even like the series but I know enough to know they can't just slap Skyrim paint on WoW and call it a success. TES players are a weird lot, they resist the implication that the series is just single player MMO and quickly point out all of the things that make the series different. So how do they go about making a TES MMO? Make it exactly like every other MMO and drop all of the stuff that made it unique; no realtime combat, everything is on hot bars, no dragons, no vampires/werewolves, classes and "Traditional MMORPG progression mechanics", raids and heroic dungeons. What carries over from TES? A huge world, tedious quests, archaic stat systems and loot; the very things that drew the "TES is a single player MMO" criticisms in the first place.

Oh, and this gem;

"Recreateing the freedom Elder Scrolls players expect within the World of Warcraft-style mechanics Zenimax Online is using for this MMO would be impossible without changing the way that players interact with the world."

Really? You're just going to flat out say in an interview (Nirolak was quoting an issue of GameInformer) "We're making it World of Warcraft-style, sorry Elder Scrolls players!"?

The whole blocking mechanic was the only thing that sounded interesting, everything else is either WoW copypasta. And the Hero Engine? In 2012? Really?

There. I've said my peace. Sorry for going off-topic. No GW2 news makes Retro a dull boy.

 

[jkoch]

I need some news. Something...anything.

 

[RepairmanJack]

Yep, this is the biggest issue for me, but i know that its hard to make proper spell animations that are also clear indications of effects. I think that only PVP games i've played that have done it right are Lineage 2 and Leagues of Legends.
Lineage 2 has brilliant in spell designs and a second You see the effect, You exactly know what spell and what class hit You. Even buffs from supports are clear and You could see effects of that spells for a second, icons are great designed too.
Guild Wars 2 unfortunately looks like total clusterfuck with many spells looking the same or really similar, especially aoe auras.

The cluster of it all is distracting. I really can't imagine what it was like before they lowered them down.

I don't think the ability to distinguish each and every spell will really be needed for this(or possible with so many), my main concern is being able to visually see on screen each players class. Then as long as you can see the weapon they are using I think it will get to a point where you can tell their build. It just takes players learning what builds usually need what weapon and what not. It won't be an exact science but it will help down the road.

I need some news. Something...anything.

I'm actually surprised to not get some blog post about the success of the bwe with some numbers or something. Give us something. :lol

 

[commish]

The cluster of it all is distracting. I really can't imagine what it was like before they lowered them down.

I don't think the ability to distinguish each and every spell will really be needed for this(or possible with so many), my main concern is being able to visually see on screen each players class. Then as long as you can see the weapon they are using I think it will get to a point where you can tell their build. It just takes players learning what builds usually need what weapon and what not. It won't be an exact science but it will help down the road.

There are so many different variations that I don't know what you'll be able to tell just by a weapon... what does a weapon tell you? If my warrior has two maces, what does that mean?

 

[Orayn]

Differentiating between heavy, medium, and light armor should get easier once people have more distinctive sets and are using dye more often. The rest you'll just have to base on watching animations and spotting weapon combos that are unique to a class.

 

[RepairmanJack]

There are so many different variations that I don't know what you'll be able to tell just by a weapon... what does a weapon tell you? If my warrior has two maces, what does that mean?

I'm not expecting this to happen anytime soon, people are just getting their hands on the game. I also don't think it will work at lower level pvp or when people are going in individually. But sooner or later when team pvp is concerned optimum team builds will develop over time. I'm expecting there will be optimum weapons for different builds. If you were a warrior going for a bleed heavy build sword would probably be your weapon, or if it was a stun heavy build maybe hammer or some shield combo. Also if you see an elementalist come out with a staff most likely that is going to be a CC heavy or a support role on the team.

I'm not saying those are the only way for those weapons to play by any means, I still think there is a ridiculous amount of different types of builds that are possible. When I am saying eventually you will be able to get a general idea of a players build by their weapon I am mostly referring to high end team pvp. When they eventually get to the point of saying for support roles you need a staff ele, or a cerain mesmer, or a certain guardian.

If this doesn't make sense let me know. I feel like I am struggling to get my point across and kind of rambling. :lol Basically I am saying Elementalist can play many roles but chances are if you see a duel daggers Ele it's going to be a burn or bleed heavy build(or whatever team based build is popular at some point). I expect it to get to that point down the road when it gets to high level pvp.

 

[Jayge]

People keep complaining about the game being CPU bound but on my completely stock i7-920 I had stellar performance outside of pure network latency over the VPN I had to employ to tunnel out of my school.

 

[BrettWeir]

My savings grace with the wait for this game has been my new found infatuation....our new Jeep Wrangler. I am absolutely OBSESSED with it.

I wish I were enthused about Diablo 3 coming out, but the only fun I got out of the beta was upgrading the smith and crafting my own stuff. The game itself is a snooze-fest to me.

Oh well, back to my JK forums!

 

[inky]

With the weekend coming up the withdrawal is finally setting in. I have a million games to play on Steam yet I want nothing but GW2 =(

 

[RepairmanJack]

My savings grace with the wait for this game has been my new found infatuation....our new Jeep Wrangler. I am absolutely OBSESSED with it.

I wish I were enthused about Diablo 3 coming out, but the only fun I got out of the beta was upgrading the smith and crafting my own stuff. The game itself is a snooze-fest to me.

Oh well, back to my JK forums!

I....um.......ah.......wut? Hopefully you mean driving it or something like that. :lol In that case congrats on the Wrangler. Family used to have one and I about flipped it while trying to drive through a ice storm. They can definitely be fun.

As for Diablo could it have been because it was only normal mode? I thought it was wayyyy too easy, even for the first playthrough.

 

[Proven]

Gunbo, my problem with your posts on this page come down to two main points.

First, the fact that these guys were winning against such odds doesn't only point to the fact that they were good, it also means that the people they were fighting against were bad. There were 10, 20, 30 people at a time, and you want to be able to pick out what they're all doing, when they can't even take out a group of 5-10 people even if there was a sneak attack. And how can you rely on a player strat metagame when people don't even know who needs to be focused down, locked down, etc.?

Second, and this comes from the first, the comms were absolutely fine for what they were doing. Why? Because comms are used to improve the situation, by either furthering what you're currently doing or to reverse an action done by opponents. But the majority of those fights went so well for them that they didn't have to use comms.

Then again, this is coming from a competitive FPS background, and everything I've seen about GW2 from a competitive angle shows it's either fine by me or too early to tell. The metagame right now is primarily spike builds; it's still at it's first level. I haven't even seen much in the way of team strategies used outside of WvW.

And again, from a comp FPS background, the current PvP maps are more than fine. With the professions being open ended enough that you can pick any role with a change of weapons and traits, just the way it gets done being different, they do have everything to make capture points work. I must not understand how MMO combat worked up until now and how people watched it, but at least with FPS games capture points are a proven formula that works with small player counts.

tl;dr from my mindset you're calling things too early, or calling things wrong that look fine.

 

[RepairmanJack]

tl;dr from my mindset you're calling things too early, or calling things wrong that look fine.

Agreed. Some stuff needs some tweaking but I think the possibiliy is there. Also nothing on a competitive standpoint should be taken from WvW. It's just not set up to be that way, it's meant to be big group pvp fun. Sure there will be good guilds and good servers on release but no way it will reach the competitive level of sPvP.

 

[Quadrophenic]

Still, this discussion is much more enjoyable and informative than the one about Gamestop preorders

 

[RepairmanJack]

So anyone been reading the Reddit thread about TotalBiscuit and Jesse Cox's comments on the GW2 community? TB ended up popping into the thread and commenting a couple times. I agree with him to a certain degree but he comes off as sort of a deuche with how he comes across in adressing his point. I agree the community has it's share of fanboys but I think a lot of people passionately trying to correct missinformation gets lumped in to the same crowd too easily.

Saying things like this:

How to have important opinions

1) Don't be a fucking idiot

2) Grow an audience and become important

Really?

 

[BrettWeir]

I....um.......ah.......wut? Hopefully you mean driving it or something like that. :lol In that case congrats on the Wrangler. Family used to have one and I about flipped it while trying to drive through a ice storm. They can definitely be fun.

As for Diablo could it have been because it was only normal mode? I thought it was wayyyy too easy, even for the first playthrough.

I mean....I'm obsessed with how to do personal mods to it, aftermarket parts, looking for trails, looking for local 4x4 groups, etc. It's opened up a whole new world of possibilities lol.

Nah, wasn't just because of Normal. It's due to it being based on a completely outdated type of gameplay. I was literally falling asleep.

Saying things like this:

Really?

I like his videos, but the guy is a complete tool.

 

[Vinci]

Another awesome WvW of a small group wrecking 2:1-3:1 odds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbRYEE1k-xk&feature=plcp

That's a really effective team. Nice to see a cohesive group joyfully taking on whatever they come across and actually doing rather well.

 

[J-Rzez]

Purely selfish reasons I wouldn't mind at all if this was released Post-July.

You shut your mouth! I for purely selfish reasons want it out on this Tues.

I like his videos, but the guy is a complete tool.

Same. I like his "coverage" but he sounds like the type of guy who enjoys jerking off and holding the end shut.

 

[GrizzNKev]

So anyone been reading the Reddit thread about TotalBiscuit and Jesse Cox's comments on the GW2 community? TB ended up popping into the thread and commenting a couple times. I agree with him to a certain degree but he comes off as sort of a deuche with how he comes across in adressing his point. I agree the community has it's share of fanboys but I think a lot of people passionately trying to correct missinformation gets lumped in to the same crowd too easily.

Saying things like this:



Really?

My best advice would be to not visit reddit. Ever.

By the way, I just finished moving back home across the state. Things should be getting back to normal speed for me (like releasing the next podcast episode).

 

[Vinci]

You shut your mouth! I for purely selfish reasons want it out on this Tues.

I'd like it now honestly. I have nothing else I want to play at the moment.

 

[RepairmanJack]

I like his videos, but the guy is a complete tool.

I didn't get that impression from the couple videos of his I saw but I have that impression now.

My best advice would be to not visit reddit. Ever.

By the way, I just finished moving back home across the state. Things should be getting back to normal speed for me (like releasing the next podcast episode).

I need news dammit!(or anything regarding the game) This game, and the couple GAF outages, are the only reason I ever went to Reddit. I could never even stand the look of it, but it was an easy place to get the info I wanted and that's about it's only use.

 

[Kos Luftar]

I know people don't like reddit here but this video was just posted about how intricate the events are and all I can say is wow, I can't believe I didn't pay more attention in the events.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CyqGJHTjes

 

[gunbo13]

And how can you rely on a player strat metagame when people don't even know who needs to be focused down, locked down, etc.?

That's the problem.

But the majority of those fights went so well for them that they didn't have to use comms.

You're focusing on one video. I used it as an example but I've seen about 100 videos for GW2 PvP/WvW. The pattern with the comms is what I stated. It's like combat turns into quiet nap time.

I must not understand how MMO combat worked up until now and how people watched it, but at least with FPS games capture points are a proven formula that works with small player counts.

Oh, it certainly can work. In GW1 it could work. But it is mind-numbingly boring, repetitive, and even silly. Standing around waiting for a bar to fill up is obnoxious. And competing for it is like a bunch of little kids fighting over a toy that nobody truly actually wants. It is a horrible game mode and I'm not alone in thinking this way. Maybe if GW2 added new dynamics to it but they didn't. CTF doesn't make much sense either but is at least fun. It's just terrible and should be banned from every video game in existence.

Yea, it sounds like I'm exaggerating but get back to me when you are running caps points a year from now. That's if you can stand it that long.

tl;dr from my mindset you're calling things too early, or calling things wrong that look fine.

I'm a consumer and trying to decide if I want to buy the game. It's my money and time, which I don't take lightly. I'm also very specific with what type of MMO I am willing to play and will toss-aside ones that don't fit. If you disagree, I'm more then willing to listen since my opinion may change. But I'm not "calling" anything.

 

[Teknopathetic]

I don't entirely agree with gunbo, but I don't think it's a lasting competitive game mode and certainly not something that will make for an interesting "esport."

 

[Trey]

I don't entirely agree with gunbo, but I don't think it's a lasting competitive game mode and certainly not something that will make for an interesting "esport."

Why not?

 

[Proven]

I know people don't like reddit here but this video was just posted about how intricate the events are and all I can say is wow, I can't believe I didn't pay more attention in the events.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CyqGJHTjes

Thank you.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Why not?"

I actually misunderstood the topic of discussion between some of the posts. I don't think the structured PvP is a lasting competitive game mode, not WvWvW. Currently, WvWvW is GW2's saving grace.

 

[J-Rzez]

I'd like it now honestly. I have nothing else I want to play at the moment.

That's how I am too. Nothing to play, and I maybe odd but I'm not that excited for D3 and I'm probably going to be passing on it for while. The BWE did it's job, and shot my hype through the roof. I'm laying down, holding and wrapped around my bathroom toilet, shivering like a junky.

It's been a long while since I felt like this...

"Why not?"

I actually misunderstood the topic of discussion between some of the posts. I don't think the structured PvP is a lasting competitive game mode, not WvWvW. Currently, WvWvW is GW2's saving grace.

WvWvW is a good time, it's like being able to jump in a few matches of a FPS, so that'll keep people into it.

Have yet to see how 5v5 will work out. There seems to be a surprisingly high skill cap to the PvP gameplay in this, so it's a wildcard I believe. Even if it finally rips the remainder of the WoW arena junkies away, it'll be a small victory for Anet.

 

[Trey]

"Why not?"

I actually misunderstood the topic of discussion between some of the posts. I don't think the structured PvP is a lasting competitive game mode, not WvWvW. Currently, WvWvW is GW2's saving grace.

Still curious why you think so. Not that I agree or disagree with the assertion, just trying to see where you and tangentially gunbo are coming from.

 

[Hawkian]

That's how I am too. Nothing to play, and I maybe odd but I'm not that excited for D3 and I'm probably going to be passing on it for while. The BWE did it's job, and shot my hype through the roof. I'm laying down, holding and wrapped around my bathroom toilet, shivering like a junky.

It's been a long while since I felt like this...

Personally, never anticipated a game like this one. I was very hyped for GW1, but this is another scale, really.

 

[RepairmanJack]

"Why not?"

I actually misunderstood the topic of discussion between some of the posts. I don't think the structured PvP is a lasting competitive game mode, not WvWvW. Currently, WvWvW is GW2's saving grace.

With Conquest I agree, it's a decent start but it has it's issues and it being it's only gametype(at launch) doesn't help, but why do you think 5v5 all together has no viability?

 

[gunbo13]

I actually misunderstood the topic of discussion between some of the posts. I don't think the structured PvP is a lasting competitive game mode, not WvWvW. Currently, WvWvW is GW2's saving grace.

I was at least referring to sPvP with most of my criticisms. WvW is indeed the saving grace or at least the possible for GW2. The main issue I cited there was lack of player-strats and chaotic visuals.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Have yet to see how 5v5 will work out. There seems to be a surprisingly high skill cap to the PvP gameplay in this, so it's a wildcard I believe. Even if it finally rips the remainder of the WoW arena junkies away, it'll be a small victory for Anet."

I don't really think it compares to WoW arena from what I played during the BWE. And that's not because WoW Arena is particularly good, but there's a much higher importance on team builds and coordination that doesn't seem to exist in GW2 at the moment. Support doesn't seem to exist (despite them saying the game's about DPS, Control, and support), the most team coordination that's possible in GW2's structured pvp right now is focusing the same target which is not really all that interesting to play or watch.


"With Conquest I agree, it's a decent start but it has it's issues and it being it's only gametype(at launch) doesn't help, but why do you think 5v5 all together has no viability?"
"Still curious why you think so. Not that I agree or disagree with the assertion, just trying to see where you and tangentially gunbo are coming from."

See above.

 

[nataku]

I know people don't like reddit here but this video was just posted about how intricate the events are and all I can say is wow, I can't believe I didn't pay more attention in the events.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CyqGJHTjes

This is an awesome video. I did all of the Norn events in that video, but had no idea they were all connected like that.

I'm going to have to sit around and listen to NPCs after doing events to see what they link to, if anything, for the next BWE.

 

[gunbo13]

Still curious why you think so. Not that I agree or disagree with the assertion, just trying to see where you and tangentially gunbo are coming from.

I don't particularly care much about the e-sport idea. But the glaring issue I have is that cap points just aren't fun. I used to run with a lot of top HoH players nightly and we would run through everything. The only times we all sighed and were pissed off is when cap maps loaded. And I'm talking about the cap maps that GW2 emulates. You play these cap maps for hundreds of hours and you literally want to burn the game down. And if a mode like that can be so boring and annoying to players? Well, it usually isn't very fun to watch either.

Maybe players who dislike cap point maps are a small minority. But I don't remember anyone in GW1 who thought differently. Every other mode is better. All of them.

 

[RepairmanJack]

I don't really think it compares to WoW arena from what I played during the BWE. And that's not because WoW Arena is particularly good, but there's a much higher importance on team builds and coordination that doesn't seem to exist in GW2 at the moment. Support doesn't seem to exist (despite them saying the game's about DPS, Control, and support), the most team coordination that's possible in GW2's structured pvp right now is focusing the same target which is not really all that interesting to play or watch.

I think this is where my argument from earlier comes into play. Way too much is being concluded from the beta on this aspect. People are just getting used to their own classes there is no way they can have enough grasp of other's builds or how they could support them. Also I usually love being support or healer, but just because it was the first weekend I could try it out I wanted to go out and cause damage. I am sure a lot of people thought this way.

Again I'm not trying to just blindly stick up for GW2 I just think too much is being derived from a beta. High level competitive pvp doesn't happen over night. :lol

 

[Proven]

That's the problem.

You're focusing on one video. I used it as an example but I've seen about 100 videos for GW2 PvP/WvW. The pattern with the comms is what I stated. It's like combat turns into quiet nap time.

Oh, it certainly can work. In GW1 it could work. But it is mind-numbingly boring, repetitive, and even silly. Standing around waiting for a bar to fill up is obnoxious. And competing for it is like a bunch of little kids fighting over a toy that nobody truly actually wants. It is a horrible game mode and I'm not alone in thinking this way. Maybe if GW2 added new dynamics to it but they didn't. CTF doesn't make much sense either but is at least fun. It's just terrible and should be banned from every video game in existence.

Yea, it sounds like I'm exaggerating but get back to me when you are running caps points a year from now. That's if you can stand it that long.

I'm a consumer and trying to decide if I want to buy the game. It's my money and time, which I don't take lightly. I'm also very specific with what type of MMO I am willing to play and will toss-aside ones that don't fit. If you disagree, I'm more then willing to listen since my opinion may change. But I'm not "calling" anything.

I've been watching a ton of videos as well. I was using that one video as an example of comms because that's the only near-decent level of comms I've heard. I haven't been able to find much else with comms at all that hasn't been "OH MY GOSH GUYS LOOK AT WHAT JUST HAPPENED!". They're entertaining to listen to, at least. If you could relink the ones with better comms it'd be great.

As for control points, many FPS games on the market right now use that or some variant for it's comp play. I, and many other people don't find it boring at all. You're not just waiting for a bar to fill up. You're either rushing in to start a battle before a point is capped or you're using the reverie after the last battle to heal up. From there, there are numbers of split strats that can be used to defend, sneak cap, or assault another point, and the effectiveness of splitting up also necessitates the need to keep track of the enemy team. The tower on one map is an example of a terrain feature that does multiple things in this respect. Plus, with the way the currently shown PvP maps are, there are always five points on interests; three capture points as well as the two trebuchets/bosses. You'll always need to be moving. It feels like you'd be happier if they just sped up the time needed to capture.

I mean, look at me, I play Team Fortress 2 in my spare time. Every single game mode there but one, 5 Capture Points, Attack/Defense Capture Point, Payload, Payload Race, King of the Hill, Territory Control, is a variation of control points. The lone exception is CTF. I'm obviously still enjoying capture point play. I don't understand what's so bad about it, at least in the case of what you'd rather be doing instead.

 

[Sephirus]

I know people don't like reddit here but this video was just posted about how intricate the events are and all I can say is wow, I can't believe I didn't pay more attention in the events.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CyqGJHTjes

Wow, that's just awesome, I can't believe how intricate these events can be. Next BWE I'll be stalking every DE NPC just to see what happens lol.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

This is an awesome video. I did all of the Norn events in that video, but had no idea they were all connected like that.

I'm going to have to sit around and listen to NPCs after doing events to see what they link to, if anything, for the next BWE.

Yea, I was a part of quite a few actual Dynamic events in North starter area. They work very well.

 

[Hawkian]

Wow, that's just awesome, I can't believe how intricate these events can be. Next BWE I'll be stalking every DE NPC just to see what happens lol.

Can't watch the video right now, but I'm psyched.