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Magic: The Gathering |OT|
- Thread starter The Technomancer
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divisionbyzorro
Member
Piss off everybody at the table in EDH.
echoshifting
Banned
Okay, here's one.
1. My opponent plays Mercy Killing, targeting creature A
2. I respond to the instant (not the sacrifice) by playing Altar's Reap
3. Altar's Reap resolves, I sacrifice creature A
4. Mercy Killing should resolve, but the target is no longer valid
So...now what? Does Mercy Killing's cost actually resolve first since sacrifice and other costs don't go on the stack?
edit: clarity
No. His goes directly to graveyard with no target sacrificed since yours resolves first.
First-in, Last-out.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Hmm, pretty sure yours still resolves first. It's not a cost so it should resolve second when the card is actually resolving. It shouldn't sac first since it has to resolve to do that so your card resolves, his has no target so it fizzles.
Edit: Beaten.
echoshifting
Banned
Okay, thanks guys. I have never quite understood how a card like Mercy Killing would work in that scenario.
SystemShark
Member
When you guys sell or trade your cards with your LGS do they give fair value or do they markup what they sell and give less for what they buy?
I've finally placed all of my cards in a binder and have all the cards I have over 4 piled together and plan on taking them to the largest MTG dealer here in town.
I just want to know what to expect. Most of my cards are of the $0.15 variety so I'm not expecting much.
Thanks.
Edit: On a side note, I did pull a Garruk Relentless out of an Innistrad booster I picked up a week ago.
I've finally placed all of my cards in a binder and have all the cards I have over 4 piled together and plan on taking them to the largest MTG dealer here in town.
I just want to know what to expect. Most of my cards are of the $0.15 variety so I'm not expecting much.
Thanks.
Edit: On a side note, I did pull a Garruk Relentless out of an Innistrad booster I picked up a week ago.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Depends on the store but vast majority of the time it's 1/2 of what they're selling for and you just get store credit. Cash is less, if offered at all.
divisionbyzorro
Member
The rules for targeted spells always work the same. If a spell (or ability) has the word "target" in the wording:
- All targets must be valid to put the spell on the stack.
- You declare those targets as you put the spell on the stack.
- At least one target must still be valid in order for the spell to resolve. If all targets are no longer valid (because they changed zones, gained protection, gained hexproof/shroud), the spell is countered by game rules (i.e., fizzles).
- If at least one target is still valid, the spell resolves as if it only ever targeted those targets which are still valid.
So, for example, if I cast Aether Mutation and target your Vampire Aristocrat, and you choose to make it sacrifice itself in response, Aether Mutation is countered and I don't get any tokens.
But if I use Cruel Revival, targeting your Vampire Aristocrat and a Walking Corpse in my graveyard, and you make it Aristocrat sacrifice itself in response, I still retrieve Walking Corpse because it is still a valid target.
Gatekeeper
Member
For cards with any sort of actual value ($3 and up) we pay anywhere from 60 percent of our selling price on up. In cash. 15% bonus if you want store credit.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Why does cruel revival still work? It has no target by the time it resolves. Is it because the second part of the card still has a target?
The latter. All targets have to be knocked out for the spell to fizzle.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Ah, alright that's what I figured.
I really want to do something with Descent Into Madness.
I have no idea what. But, something ...
--
You could do something like, if Liliana is forcing you to sac a creature, or Tribute to Hunger, and you've only got one creature, respond with an Altar's Reap
You need either a heavy card draw set up, or a way to generate alot of tokens.
Dropping it and then next turn hitting bonfire of the damned or something to get rid of all of their creatures while Lili rapes their hand could work. Also having ways to get things back from your gy helps.
Smokestack was much easier to use to your advantage.
echoshifting
Banned
Yeah, I got one of those (Descent into Madness) in my booster box and even I'm not gonna touch that one.
Unless venfayth cracks the code of course
Unless venfayth cracks the code of course
echoshifting
Banned
Yeah, you could blink it too if the despair counters get out of hand
edit: but I'm trying to think of a blink card from this block that works for enchantments and coming up empty, are they really all creatures?
edit 2: O-ring, derp. Venser.
Actually Venser would get along with that card really well
edit: but I'm trying to think of a blink card from this block that works for enchantments and coming up empty, are they really all creatures?
edit 2: O-ring, derp. Venser.
Actually Venser would get along with that card really well
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Any recommendations on my Frites deck? I want to add Gisela but she won't come until tomorrow so I'm play testing with this for the time being. I'll remove a Griselbrand and something else to add two of her. Thinking of switching Vexing Devil for Timely Reinforcement maybe also.
Creatures
3x Elesh Norn
4x Griselbrand
3x Necrotic Ooze
2x Vexing Devil
Spells
4x faithless looting
4x lingering souls
2x Day of Judgement
2x Whipflare
2x Go for the Throat
4x Unburial Rites
Enchantments
3x Zombie Infestation
Planeswalkers
2x Liliana
1x Tibalt
Land (24)
4x Evolving Wild
3x Clifftop Retreat
3x Dragonskull Summit
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
3x Isolated Chapel
3x Mountain
2x Plains
2x Swamp
Creatures
3x Elesh Norn
4x Griselbrand
3x Necrotic Ooze
2x Vexing Devil
Spells
4x faithless looting
4x lingering souls
2x Day of Judgement
2x Whipflare
2x Go for the Throat
4x Unburial Rites
Enchantments
3x Zombie Infestation
Planeswalkers
2x Liliana
1x Tibalt
Land (24)
4x Evolving Wild
3x Clifftop Retreat
3x Dragonskull Summit
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
3x Isolated Chapel
3x Mountain
2x Plains
2x Swamp
Those vexing devils are literally dead cards in your deck. You aren't dealing damage quickly enough for lava spike to be a good card.
I've tested the deck (my variant is on the last page) plenty, and you probably want more tibalts and less necrotic oozes; as-is, you only have one target for Ooze, Griselbrand. From my testing, that isn't enough consistency to be worthy of a 4-drop.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
4 Grizzies is excessive, Necrotic Ooze does you no good because you have very few activated abilities and having them just in case you get Grizzie in your yard is not a gamble I would take.
Instead I would use Geralfs Messenger, it is easy damage and he is a pain to kill and you get multiple uses of him. I would also replace the go for the throats with O rings.
I am also thinking an extra lilly may be better than tibalt for you, if you want red walker perhaps chandra from m12 to double cast your unburial rites and give some damage.
All of the sudden I want to play with 4 Sun Titans, 4 Vexing Devils, 4 Phantasmal Images, 4 Phyrexian Metamorphs and 4 Geralf's Messengers and mix with Lillianas, Unburial Rites and some Forbidden Alchemies.
But I like them... What do you think I should swap with? Just timely reinforcements?
If you want to make Necrotic Ooze good, you can throw in some neat little tricks to play with it, like, say.... Spikeshot Elder. Spikeshot Ooze is -very- good, especially with one of the creatures in NPH that can give itself infect thrown in. I personally would not maindeck more than one timely reinforcements.
so.... -2 vexing devil +2 spikeshot elder
If you aren't attached to Ooze, you can consider Intangible Virtue; you already have a lot of sifting, 4 lingering souls, and 3 zombie infestations. That's likely enough for it to be worthwhile, especially in the delver matchup when you can force trades with your tokens.
so -3 necrotic ooze -2 vexing devil +2 tibalt +2 intangible virtue +1 timely reinforcements
I have to disagree with the Geralf's Messenger recommendation and the tibalt hate; I've tested Tibalt-flare and Tibalt-frites quite a bit, as have SCG in a few gold articles, and it's one of the best cards in the deck, completely dominating control matchups and the mirror. I'd actually lean towards running 3. Chandra, however, doesn't really fit here, as is Geralf's Messenger; double-casting unburial rites is win-more (IE, pointless, since one norn/gris is enough), and I have no idea how a RWB manabase is going to cast Messenger.
The sun titans are a great suggestion, however, as is the suggestion to cut down on the oozes and griselbrands.
I just realized the tibalt flare article is "premium", so here's Brad Nelson's tibalt flare list, which is pretty goddamn incredible:
Maindeck:
Artifacts
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Ratchet Bomb
Creatures
3 Phantasmal Image
3 Sun Titan
Enchantments
1 Dead Weight
2 Oblivion Ring
Instants
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Desperate Ravings
1 Negate
Legendary Creatures
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Planeswalkers
3 Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded
Sorceries
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
2 Unburial Rites
2 Whipflare
Basic Lands
1 Island
2 Mountain
2 Plains
1 Swamp
Lands
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
3 Evolving Wilds
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Seachrome Coast
3 Shimmering Grotto
1 Sulfur Falls
Sideboard:
2 Intangible Virtue
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Celestial Purge
1 Negate
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Day of Judgment
2 Devil's Play
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Whipflare
1 Ghost Quarter
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Ya, fourth grizzle was just to save space. I really like the oozes so far because I don't get them often and I know I have a method to dig if I get stuck which is really appealing. I have o-ring in the sideboard but I think it's too slow with some of the aggro decks I've seen and I think the throats might be better main board. I only have the two lili's and she feels slow to actually get to work so tibalt is a little faster and in my mind better, at least for a one of. Still not sure but I want to try instead of 3 lilis where I probably have nothing to protect on turn 3. My friend had 1 or 2 sun titans and 4 ratchet bombs main board so that's a thought also... I'm not sure if I prefer that yet though.
Hmmm, not sure how I like the spike shot. Seems like sort of a waste. I haven't had any real problems in the deck except for when my digging stops and that's why I have the oozes. There are only 4 unburial rights and if I can't reach it and burn through my cycling I'm pretty stuck. Maybe bring down to two but they seem beneficial thus far in my limited play. Is there a point for intangible virtue? Seems like wasted space with so few creatures. Most are bombs so besides my lingering souls I don't think I see any benefit to it.
godofcookery
Member
Since we are talking a bit about lands, I have always been partial to APAC lands myself.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Bleh, I think I only have one sun titan from trading the others. :/
Spikeshot -is- sort of a waste. It was an option if you were attached to Necrotic Ooze, which becomes a Char on legs when spikeshot is in the yard.
Intangible Virtue powers up your spirit tokens, which you see quite a few of over the course of a game, to the point that they can trade with flipped delvers. It also lets you win without Norn/Gris hitting the field, although that will rarely happen unless you're doing some serious pitching to Infestation.
I use it as a SB option against delver decks, and I don't even run zombie infestation. I think it's worthy of maindeck if you do.
Another note: sun titan/ratchet bomb should probably find a place in the deck somewhere if you don't decide to run virtue.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Ya, ratchet was interesting and seemed a better two drop. I could potentially see dropping the zombies for that.
Edit: I'm also torn because sun titan+ratchet bomb prevents room for Gisela which I wanted to try.
BlewHedgehog
Member
It's weird seeing this deck without green in it. I always felt the ramp from Birds and Avacyn's Pilgrim were really important, as well as Mulch. You've got Lingering Souls, which is awesome, but the mana dudes are one of the reasons Elesh Norn is so scary. Suddenly BoP is attacking you! For damage!
Barring that pretty drastic change, I think you might want to resurrect some big guy that punishes removal spells better. Wurmcoil Engine is a good choice. I also like Flayer of the Hatebound as a janky anti-removal card. The moment you Rites him, he deals 4 and if your opponent wants to deal with him, he has to do it twice and take another 5 for his trouble.
I could use some advice on my deck as well. It started out as an attempt at U/G/W land destruction, just cuz it sounded goofy. The more I tweak it, the less important that aspect of the deck becomes and it seems like I should just be playing something more traditional. Here it is:
3 Blade Splicer
3 Acidic Slime
2 Frost Giant
3 Restoration Angel
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Mana Leak
4 Cloudshift
3 Beast Within
1 Tamiyo
1 Venser
23 A bunch of lands
It's pretty bad, but occasionally will start infinite Sliming people on turn 4 or so. Snapcaster Mage seems really unnecessary, since Phantasmal Image is already Cloudshifting again anyway. Tamiyo and Venser are basically fighting for my approval right now. Any suggestions?
divisionbyzorro
Member
On the subject of curse decks from a couple pages ago: I decided to tweak mine based on the suggestions you guys made, and I gotta say that while the deck is still janky as fuck, hitting for 20 damage in one turn because you hit your curve of removal to curses just right is incredibly satisfying.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Really? I don't think I've seen ones that are green that often. What color do they drop? I'd have to drop one since it's B/W/R already.
For your deck I guess venser isn't bad. It still feels like you don't have anything huge for blinking. Restoration just blinks something else right? The biggest thing is blade splicer and slime to bounce but is it really that consistent? Especially with both only being 3 ofs it doesn't seem very reliable.
Okay, so I have a wolf run ramp deck put together (gotta love that Japanese foil cavern of souls swag). Just to be clear, FNM is standard, correct?
Also, I know how to play the deck versus most of the current competitive layouts (save solar flare, I'm not even exactly sure how that deck works), but what's the best way to go against RG aggro and a mirror match?
Also, I know how to play the deck versus most of the current competitive layouts (save solar flare, I'm not even exactly sure how that deck works), but what's the best way to go against RG aggro and a mirror match?
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
It depends on the shop. Some do all play types, some alternate (one week standard, next draft, etc.) so you really have to ask the shop.
Biggest thing against mirror match is if you both have hunts masters and you're on the draw you should side out your hunts master.
For more removal?
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
For whatever really. It's more the idea that in a mirror match, if they both flip at the same time you lose yours and he won't due to the stack of when they flip. Sometimes for thruns etc. What deck list are you using? They can differ by a decent amount.
This one.
I was considering dropping the Conscripts out for three Thruns.
EDIT: I'd like to throw some swords in there, but I can't decide which ones/where to put them.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
R/G usually focuses so much on Primeval titan there isn't much point for swords. You want to ramp, swords are kind of slow.
Edit: I don't like the lack of thruns. I personally don't care for devil's play and would rather want a thrun main board.
Would Thrun be a better sideboard option than the conscripts?
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Eh, I'm not sure. I haven't seen it with conscripts in action. I'm not sure what you're looking to sideboard it in against exactly. Thrun is just a solid green card. Maybe bring it down to 2 conscripts and toss devil's play for a thrun main board and a thrun sideboard. It's a personal preference though. I'm just not sure what they're looking for with the conscripts so if someone can make an argument it isn't inherently bad but 3 still seems like a big part of your sideboard to use.
Edit: I always hate tree of redemption but I'm assuming that is for overly aggro decks that ramp can't deal with.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Anybody know where to get either some 3x3 colored mana symbol stickers, or some stencils thereof?
SystemShark
Member
One more question in regards to the Garruk Relentless I have, is there an intro deck that I could slip him into that would work with his abilities?
I've done some preliminary research on the Dark Ascension and Innistrad decks but I'm not sure if there is a fit. :/
Thanks.
I've done some preliminary research on the Dark Ascension and Innistrad decks but I'm not sure if there is a fit. :/
Thanks.
Uh, how are you going to win the game with Coalition Victory if you only have four Scuttlemites and no other creatures of color? Or any lands besides forests?
I don't understand what this deck is trying to do, it doesn't seem to have a game plan for any phase of the game, early, mid or late.
I don't understand what this deck is trying to do, it doesn't seem to have a game plan for any phase of the game, early, mid or late.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Prismatic Omen makes my forests all land types, and tapping scuttlemutt makes it a creature of all colors.
Early on: Mana ramping, meekstone to keep people from outclassing my weak creatures
Mid game: Stylus + Totem to take away my opponent's combos
Late: Ironworks + Genesis Chamber + Myr Retriever mana/token infinite or Coalition Victory
Scarecrone + Retriever and Totem are basically to cover my ass while I set up my combos, and I can use Ironworks to snag extra mana in a pinch.
I have a cheap W/U spirits deck but I'm not sure how well it fares competitively (not tournament level, just casual standard) since I talk about magic more than I actually play it.
If you're interested here's my decklist:
Another deck I made on the cheap is U/R Burning Vengeance, which is a tempo deck:
If you're interested here's my decklist:
Another deck I made on the cheap is U/R Burning Vengeance, which is a tempo deck:
Ah, I misread Scuttlemutt, I didn't see "color or colors".
"God's Beard!"
Member
Anyone want to trade/sell me a playset of Mishra's Factory? :3
edit: Best art ever:
Anyway, my dream of turning creatures into disposable scarecrow tokens is pretty much over with no good green/colorless solution. I don't want to rely on prismatic omen.
Added some non-basic lands to my deck:
10x Forest
4x Buried Ruin
4x Treetop Village
4x Tree of Tales
3x Meekstone
3x Tel-Jilad Stylus
4x Avarice Totem
2x Prismatic Omen
4x Genesis Chamber
4x Myr Retriever
4x Explore
4x Scarecrone
4x Scuttlemutt
4x Krark-Clan Ironworks
2x Coalition Victory
Basically the only thing holding me back is deciding between these two cards:
Scarecrone is obviously the better and more flexible card, but Junk Diver helps a lot with my combos, adds some much-needed evasion and drops the price of my deck from about 50 to about 40 dollars. Once I decide between these two, I'll pull the trigger on the deck. Can you guys help me out here?
edit: Best art ever:
Anyway, my dream of turning creatures into disposable scarecrow tokens is pretty much over with no good green/colorless solution. I don't want to rely on prismatic omen.
Added some non-basic lands to my deck:
10x Forest
4x Buried Ruin
4x Treetop Village
4x Tree of Tales
3x Meekstone
3x Tel-Jilad Stylus
4x Avarice Totem
2x Prismatic Omen
4x Genesis Chamber
4x Myr Retriever
4x Explore
4x Scarecrone
4x Scuttlemutt
4x Krark-Clan Ironworks
2x Coalition Victory
Basically the only thing holding me back is deciding between these two cards:
Scarecrone is obviously the better and more flexible card, but Junk Diver helps a lot with my combos, adds some much-needed evasion and drops the price of my deck from about 50 to about 40 dollars. Once I decide between these two, I'll pull the trigger on the deck. Can you guys help me out here?
BlewHedgehog
Member
Here's a link to something similar to what I played:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=44527
You're not so much playing 4 colors as you are playing green with minor splashes of the other three. Your only black spell is Unburial Rites, and you'll probably be flashing it back for 3W most often. Any mana problems you'd have tend to get ironed out by the Birds of Paradise and Mulch serves the dual purpose of digging for the mana sources you need while also dumping big dudes into your graveyard. Dunno how I forgot to recommend Inferno Titan earlier. That guy is killer, especially with all the Phantasmal Images running rampant right now. The thing that puzzles me about these lists are the inclusion of Tracker's Instincts. I guess any sifting through your library is good since you have Faithless Looting to work with, but it seems really counter-intuitive to scoop a bunch of big guys into your hand. It rarely did what I wanted it to. I'd replace them with some Oblivion Rings so you don't auto-lose to dumb stuff like Venser/Stonehorn Dignitary as well as a Sun Titan or two to possibly recur them with. That's the fun in reanimator decks though. You can really just run 8 of your favorite stupidly over-sized creatures and probably be in pretty good shape.
I played my UGW deck in a small 8-man standard tourney tonight and went 2-1. It was clear the Snapcasters weren't working out, so they got cut along with one of my three Beast Within. In their place, I played a Green Sun's Zenith, a Thrun, and 3 Geist of Saint Traft (a card which had absolutely no place in this deck). After trying some things with the sideboard, I think the best build wound up running (in the place of the previosuly mentioned Snapcasters and Beat Within) fourth copies of Acidic Slime and Blade Splicer, another mana dude, and maybe a pair of Sun Titans for fun Phantasmal Image tricks.
My first round opponent is going to have Blade Splicer nightmares for weeks. He attacked head first into a Restoration Angeled Splicer which got copied with Phantasmal Image on my turn and was double Cloudshifted at the end of his next. Round 2 got got turn 3 Tamiyo'ed out game 1 and Turbo-Slimed in game 2. Lost the last round, to a player far worse than the other guys I had played, but he was gunning Heartless Lich and I just couldn't find the Acidic Slimes to answer. His Grand Architect did a nice job of mowing down Phantasmal Images too. Oh well, the deck is crazy fun to play and I'm looking forward to my next chance to run it.
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