Meh. Lots of reports of games running on the Wii U as is. There might be some trouble here and there but I don't think Nintendo would cheap out to go lower than a 360.
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We also know alot of middleware was not up and running optimally for Wii U for sometime. Heck radgametools did not even get sound working on the DRC until april yet added wii u support back in december
Yep it's sure
the problems came certainly from engines/software/middleware optimizations/adaptation to Wii U specifics, the use of the padlet from its studio, and other parameters.
No. You guys scared him off.
I know those are the most likely causes, but at the same time we may want to be careful about making assumptions.
Hey, I was nice to him!
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I'm puzzled how you call these "assumptions" when IdeaMan, who you just quoted, has about as much clout here as Arkam does.
It was glorious, never seen before. And the fact that is was sofware-based rather than relying on graphic cards acceleration allowed a lot of effects, rare at the time. It was a benchmark for the CPU's, and the resolution was very limited, but man, those landscapes, a real dream.
I think it was re-released through GOG, with a patch to counter the powerful CPU problem seeing the framerate too high on current settings.
There are some fan projects like the one running on CryEngine 2 but never tested it.
TheCongressman1
Member
Rösti;37838891 said:
I've been thinking lately how neat it would be to have a Zelda game based on burrowing. They've had the ocean and the sky, why not the ground?
Basically there would be an overworld like any other Zelda where you can explore, but in certain areas, there is soft soil that lets you burrow under the dirt. Under the ground, there would be a second 'overworld', the underworld I suppose. There are caverns, dungeons, etc. You would have free control of the digging, and could tunnel at random popping down into lava filled chambers, or lakes. Oh man, that's good stuff.
And really, I guess it doesn't have to be Zelda, I just thought it would be a good fit.
But IdeaMan doesn't actually work with a developer. All of his info is very much second hand, and for all we know the studios he has contact with are all putting effort into optimizing games for the Wii U's unique hardware.
Mole Mania reboot/sequel!
Even if used "conventionally" to repeat the message you quoted, the Wii U isn't on par, it's superior. As we speak, studios are using the dev kits to render at the very least a 2012 pretty xbox360 game on the TV + another view of the main scene at 480p on the padlet, with good enough framerate, and some expected graphical additions to the overall image quality. And it's for "ports", so it can only get better for titles developed specifically for the system.
GhostTrick
Banned
I just have a basic question, considering Wii U will have nearly one year or more alone, will we have a taste from it of new gen graphics ?
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I didn't realize Arkam actually worked for a dev as well.
Meh. I just want to avoid saying things definitively before having a first-hand account.
Yes. He was even confirmed by a mod.
Dreamwriter
Member
I still don't get your point. How does whether a game is 2D or 3D change a game's costs? I guess if you are hand-drawing the 2D art then it would be more expensive than the 3D game, but other than that, there really is very little difference from a development point of view. And since 3D games don't look or play any better than 2D games, that doesn't seem to be something that would restrict development of them.
He does work at a studio with a Wii U dev kit, but does not use the dev kit himself, and has said he doesn't understand all the technical jargon.
Lupin the Third
Member
But...wasn't Arkam's info also second-hand from someone else in his studio?
e: Gah, sorta-beaten by grendel.
I think they are the average third-parties, putting some efforts in using the Wii U hardware, but not to a first-party extent. I really doubt some developers struggle now, in may 2012, to run a Xbox360 game on the Wii U. Maybe some times ago, in older dev kits, with not optimized engines/middleware/etc, and with an ambitious use of the padlet, they met some framerate difficulties, like "hey ok we have the xbox360 content on the TV, and a bird eye view on the DRC, but the framerate is really tight", but it must be a thing of the past. Grain of salt as obviously i can't talk for every third-party studios & projects
The reason why games couldn't be ported wasn't the power difference. And yes, Wii U will be much closer in power to the PS4 and next Xbox.
The Hardest Platformer Ever will be downloadable on Wii U.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1564776348/the-hardest-platformer-ever
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1564776348/the-hardest-platformer-ever
Dreamwriter
Member
It's not really power that's the problem, it's the ability to use similar programming styles. The Wii was a totally different beast from both XBox 360 and PS3, you would need an entirely new engine to work with it. By all accounts the Wii-U is going to use the same basic programming styles as XBox 360 / PS3 / PC, so that's all that's really needed. I mean, the Wii-U could be 10 times as powerful as the competition, and it would still get very few ports if it didn't support anything like pixel shaders or OpenGL.
Ah ok.
Yeah, but it's possible that he's actually seen games running, and we know that the info he's getting is direct from those working on the system while IdeaMan might be getting info from a second- or even third-hand source himself. (no offense, IM)
I think they are the average third-parties, putting some efforts in using the Wii U hardware, but not to a first-party extent. I really doubt some developers struggle now, in may 2012, to run a Xbox360 game on the Wii U. Maybe some times ago, in older dev kits, with not optimized engines/middleware/etc, and with an ambitious use of the padlet, they met some framerate difficulties, like "hey ok we have the xbox360 content on the TV, and a bird eye view on the DRC, but the framerate is really tight", but it must be a thing of the past. Grain of salt as obviously i can't talk for every third-party studios & projects
There was recently a dev on B3D adamant that the GameCube was significantly weaker than the PS2. You can't really make a sweeping generalization for the entire industry. If you could, we wouldn't have a 2011 360 game that looks like this:
How can they even say something like that?
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I thought he confirmed he hadn't seen it and all of his info was second hand at best.
GhostTrick
Banned
Yeah, but it's possible that he's actually seen games running, and we know that the info he's getting is direct from those working on the system while IdeaMan might be getting info from a second- or even third-hand source himself. (no offense, IM)
There was recently a dev on B3D adamant that the GameCube was significantly weaker than the PS2. You can't really make a sweeping generalization for the entire industry. If you could, we wouldn't have a
2011 360 game that looks like this:
Lol GC weaker than PS2 ? This guy was insane.
Heard about it yesturday...
Holly ****
Nah.. impossible.. no way... how the hell do you beat those levels? You must somehow manage to slow time down.
Yeah, but it's possible that he's actually seen games running, and we know that the info he's getting is direct from those working on the system while IdeaMan might be getting info from a second- or even third-hand source himself. (no offense, IM)
There was recently a dev on B3D adamant that the GameCube was significantly weaker than the PS2. You can't really make a sweeping generalization for the entire industry. If you could, we wouldn't have a 2011 360 game that looks like this:
No the info is second-hand, my sources are using the dev kits and see what they are displaying on the TV + the DRC.
For your gamecube comment, heh ? Of course we'll see some exceptions, but from the factual components inside of the current dev kits, competent studios can't struggle to run a visually ambitious xbox 360 content with a moderate use of the DRC, it's impossible. If it's the case, it's a studio skills related problem, it's not pertaining to the Wii U guts.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Ninjas.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
You really think Epic Yarn's budget is close to Mario Galaxy's???
But besides that, you are thinking again too literally.
Perhaps I should have said "big budget" appearance.
Most gamers I would guess would be more impressed with 3D landscapes than 2D ones even if those like us that are veteran gamers can find both rather striking.
Well, we'll know all at E3.
Before you feel offended, IdeaMan, I just want you to know that I'm taking everything with a grain of salt, no matter who it comes from. Everything's a rumor until it's confirmed. That's just the way I'm choosing to look at this.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
To build hype.
The game looks hilarious that their words have persuaded me to give it a try.
lol, no offense at all, on the contrary, it can help narrow/precise what i'm saying. 2000 people can express such doubts or adopt a wait & see philosophy, i don't mind, as long as it's not disrespectful to me
And i get your point, certainly we'll see visually mediocre titles on Wii U, but basically what i want to explain is that it won't originate from an hindrance, a lack of oomph, from the system innards. It will be as your Xbox360 example as a matter of fact, where a pretty powerful machine can still harbor software with a generation late, because of development problems (lack of resources, graphics not important for the studio, laziness, whatever).
It's easy to make a game difficult. It's a lot more difficult to make a game challenging. It seems to me as if they're going for the former.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
IdeaMan, in general, how have developers who you have had contact with or have heard about felt about the kits they have right now???
Really happy???
Satisfied???
Disappointed???
You probably haven't asked them such a question.
Really happy???
Satisfied???
Disappointed???
You probably haven't asked them such a question.
For the very latest dev kits ?
The increase is slight as i said. And a new tidbit: it appears that even if there was a delay of 1 month+ in their delivery, the improvement is still slight, and comparable to the one related in february on those threads. In other words, my sources didn't witnessed such a boost that their projects gained 20 fps, it's less than 10.
Now, as explained before, even mere 5 additional frame per seconds between two GPU doesn't exclude the possibility that one has more features, is more modern, more efficient, etc. So maybe this tiny enhancement hide more important final & late changes in regard to the components.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Nah, I just meant their overall impression of the hardware.
If this is the final stage of it, I would think they would have a general take on what they are working with whether very positive, positive or disappointed.
Dreamwriter
Member
No, but Epic Yarn was a Kirby game that was made with a low budget. Compared to Mario Galaxy, it has very, very little content. If it had the same amount of content as Mario, and fully orchestrated music, it would have had a similar budget.
I disagree - I don't know anyone that considers a game with 3D graphics but 2D gameplay to appear to be any less of a big budget appearance. Did you think Metroid: Other M looked like a cheap, low-budget game? Most of that gameplay was 2D.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
It didn't seem cheap but compared to the Primes, it didn't have the same impact at all for me.
I'm not counting the flashy cutscenes.
On IdeaMan's earlier comments about a publisher hiding a Wii U version of a game to ensure the other versions don't lose sales, here's my stance.
-It's definitely not Black Ops 2. That game is going to sell shitloads on PS3 and 360 no matter what, so there's no reason for Activision to be concerned.
-It's probably not RE6 or anything from Japan, since IdeaMan is French and probably doesn't have many Japanese contacts. (especially considering how secretive Japanese companies are)
-It's probably not GTAV because that has yet to be formally announced for any platform.
I'd say that would leave these possibilities as the most likely to me:
Bioshock Infinite
Tomb Raider
Crysis 3
Medal of Honor Warfighter
I'd go with MoH.
-It's definitely not Black Ops 2. That game is going to sell shitloads on PS3 and 360 no matter what, so there's no reason for Activision to be concerned.
-It's probably not RE6 or anything from Japan, since IdeaMan is French and probably doesn't have many Japanese contacts. (especially considering how secretive Japanese companies are)
-It's probably not GTAV because that has yet to be formally announced for any platform.
I'd say that would leave these possibilities as the most likely to me:
Bioshock Infinite
Tomb Raider
Crysis 3
Medal of Honor Warfighter
I'd go with MoH.
hardware capabilities wise, not impressed i must confess, but not disappointed either.
the very comforting point is their enthusiasm about the asymmetrical setting of the system, the new gameplay possibilities allowed by the control schemes, the additional screen, etc. A real toy, a creative framework for them, a space to explore new gamedesigns, etc.
Let's hope this interest, this curiosity, their apparent intent to take advantage of all these new features, will come to fruition as real & fun games available at launch.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Yeah, makese sense, I'm more afraid of developers not doing anything fresh than them not making games look nice.
The PS3 and 360 have very nice looking games, that's not going to be much of a problem for Wii U titles.
It's whether the tablet controller will be wasted potential or developers will really take the ball and run with it.
AceBandage
Banned
My bet is on Bioshock.
Better than picking and choosing the worst rumors and treating them like absolute fact like some people do.
AceBandage
Banned
You mean the Wii U isn't weaker than the 2600?!
Yeah, that's my second choice, especially considering the delay.
Also, that deductive speculation was more fun than I thought it would be...
Just throwing this out there: Console/handheld Smash Bros. Developed side-by-side, can link together. Apply the knowledge of this existing to a Pokemon game and... boom goes the dynamite.
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