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[Portugeezer]

I dont want to scare any Nintendo fans off from buying the Wii U. I will be there day one console in hand like everyone else. It will be a fantastic upgrade as far as Nintendo hardware goes going from the Wii to it.

What matters in the end product, if Nintendo can push the hardware than I will be happy.

3rd parties are always the issue on Nintendo platforms, and Nintendo can't force them to put all their resources towards maxing out the Wii U. But if UE4 will run on Wii U then that would be great as third party support, but I suspect that will be more important once 720/PS4 release.

Here's hoping it's the "PS2" of next gen.

We are talking about graphics hardware a lot here, but let's not forget that is not the main reason we play games.

 

[Krev]

Don't overlook games and apps where you need to sign a check.

Seriously though, it could be used well for signing after scanning your NFC enabled credit card.
EDIT: On second thought, what's the point of that? There's nobody there to check it.

 

[BurntPork]

No, I mean, same price as it's going to be, but budget normally reserved for the Wii U pad instead put towards the hardware. I agree with antonz that the Wii U pad likely has enough tech in it (especially the touch screen and battery power) to warrant enough dosh that could have been used to beef up the hardware instead. However much the Wii U costs, remember you're not just buying a processor and GPU, you're buying a Wii U pad too.

I don't want the pad .

I know what you meant, and I personally think that Nintendo would have gone for the same specs regardless. The only difference would be that the console would cost less. If Nintendo wanted more power than what the Wii U offers, they would have used off the shelf parts and let us have our cake and eat it too. It would be the customer spending that money elsewhere, not Nintendo.

 

[ozfunghi]

We are talking about graphics hardware a lot here, but let's not forget that is not the main reason we play games.

For me, this is normal and good. Once E3 is done, once the system has launched, it will all be about the games. Now however, we still don't know about the tech, and it influences the games a great deal, as also the future of the device (i'm talking about 3rd party support). We'll have 5 years left to talk about the games later.

 

[frankie_baby]

Seriously though, it could be used well for signing after scanning your NFC enabled credit card.
EDIT: On second thought, what's the point of that? There's nobody there to check it.

Interesting idea but credit cards use pin numbers these days (at least they do here)

 

[AceBandage]

Interesting idea but credit cards use pin numbers these days (at least they do here)

They have speed pass chips in them that are NFC, so you just swipe and go.

 

[Log4Girlz]

So Antonz confirmed the Wii U is just an Xbox 360 with more RAM for textures? Very close to my worst case scenario lol.

 

[BGBW]

EDIT: On second thought, what's the point of that? There's nobody there to check it.

 

[test_account]

Then I'll have the console in my bedroom and just always play it in bed.

I'm hoping we don't even need it hooked up to TV out.

That is a solution indeed. But others might want to have it mainly in their living room. It is always possible to move the console around the house, very little job to do that actually, but people are usually lazy when it comes to things like this.

Actually, if it's using Ni-Fi, it pretty much should be a bit more range than a Wireless N router in even the worst cases.

Reggie said in an interview with Geoff Keighley at last E3 that the WiiU controller have to be in the same room/vicinity as the console. They also talk about the sensorbar on the WiiU controller, so i dont think anything has changed since last E3 in this regard.

 

[antonz]

So Antonz confirmed the Wii U is just an Xbox 360 with more RAM for textures? Very close to my worst case scenario lol.

Dont let burntpork get to you. He is trying to make me slip up and leak stuff. he is a trickster after the precious

 

[squid]

Thinking about the wii launch, it was pretty good, and most people that I know were very happy with the launch games. Wii sports, Zelda, excite truck, it had quite a strong, varied launch lineup. Now if pikmin 3 and nsmb mii were the only 'good' launch titles... Hmm, I guess it would be alright, but I think they need one more title. Like a monster studios racer. They've had about enough time since pilotwings to make the wiiu launch right?

 

[Portugeezer]

So Antonz confirmed the Wii U is just an Xbox 360 with more RAM for textures? Very close to my worst case scenario lol.

He said it was like a 2008/9 GPU with 2010/11 features. 2008/9 GPU poops on 360/PS3 GPU if I am not mistaken.

 

[Log4Girlz]

He said it was like a 2008/9 GPU with 2010/11 features. 2008/9 GPU poops on 360/PS3 GPU if I am not mistaken.

So ancient tech, lap top level of performance (not even a gaming lap top). This is more in line with expectations.

 

[EatChildren]

Visual presentation and associated hardware will always be a big thing for games, because we spend as much time looking at the screen as we do interacting with our worlds. People get excited about powerful technology and bells and whistles for the same reason people can look at Mario Galaxy and Wind Waker and say "oh my god these games are beautiful". Powerful tech also helps us realise different game philosophies that were too difficult on previous iterations.

It's always been about the games, but games and technology go hand in hand. It's because of technology we have the games at all.

PS: how likely would it be to have games that have the uPad on your lap or a stand, and actually play with the Wiimote? So basically playing with 2 controllers at once, one as main controller, the other as quick menu hopper and second screen.

There's no reason why this couldn't work, so yeah, it's possible to have a 'three controller' style game where you use the Wii Remote and nunchuck, with the pad also doing something. I do wonder if anybody will bother though.

Ah ok, thanks guys.

I know the console won't be left behind when the HD Twin successors arrive, but I just want this console to strike a chord with everyone. I've had enough of the allegiances and hardware flaunting this gen brought about.

Here's to an E3 without bullshit.

Console warrioring and company allegiances have been around forever, and go back to Nintendo vs. Sega and then some. It wont be any different this E3, nor next generation.

 

[darthdago]

Sure it has been mentioned before but I really love the idea of the UPad.
e.g. I really would love to see a Fallout game on Wii U.
You will have to fix the UPad on your left or right arm and it has all the functions of the Pipboy, so no need anymore to pause the game to take med, change weapons or anything else.
The game itself will be played with remote and nunchuck...in up to 1080p...(or 720p...or something between there)

– I say 1080p cos some Crytek guy managed to run a Crisis3 level on WiiU at 720p 30-35 fps (with PC like high-settings) on TV and a 2nd complex scene 480p on UPad and he mentioned that it should be more like possible to make it 1080p on TV if you only use the Pad a bit...

So to any dev here, would it be possible to see Fallout on WiiU? And maybe in the way I would love it to? (I would even buy two copies of the game...)

 

[Gahiggidy]

He said it was like a 2008/9 GPU with 2010/11 features. 2008/9 GPU poops on 360/PS3 GPU if I am not mistaken.

How would he know? Isn't he basing that on the same info we all are working with?

 

[Log4Girlz]

Visual presentation and associated hardware will always be a big thing for games, because we spend as much time looking at the screen as we do interacting with our worlds. People get excited about powerful technology and bells and whistles for the same reason people can look at Mario Galaxy and Wind Waker and say "oh my god these games are beautiful". Powerful tech also helps us realise different game philosophies that were too difficult on previous iterations.

And yet, we ourselves are to blame for the lack of power both in the Wii and Wii U.

 

[z0m3le]

So Antonz confirmed the Wii U is just an Xbox 360 with more RAM for textures? Very close to my worst case scenario lol.

Actually he confirmed it is using a (modern) GPU with "2011/12 bells and whistles" but that it doesn't have teeth I.E. what Arkam said months ago, BG currently speculates the GPU in the early dev kits to be 2.4x XB360.

So 2-4X 360's graphical grunt but with technology comparable to GCN (a 2011/12 GPU)

Reggie said in an interview with Geoff Keighley at last E3 that the WiiU controller have to be in the same room/vicinity as the console. They also talk about the sensorbar on the WiiU controller, so i dont think anything has changed since last E3 in this regard.

He also said the Zelda demo was running in 1080p, he doesn't know tech, but he also didn't claim to know the distance that it would receive, just that it was designed to be in the same room/vicinity, if Ni-Fi is used, I stand by my statement.

 

[Portugeezer]

So ancient tech, lap top level of performance (not even a gaming lap top). This is more in line with expectations.

I don't think it's wise to compare to laptops when we have the 360 came out in 2005 and PS3 in 2006.

Wii U has 2 or 3 years of GPU advancements and then some if we are to believe antonz.

 

[Portugeezer]

How would he know? Isn't he basing that on the same info we all are working with?

I don't know, but if that was the case why would everyone be talking about his comments?

 

[BurntPork]

Dont let burntpork get to you. He is trying to make me slip up and leak stuff. he is a trickster after the precious

>

Hey, at least you didn't say anything about tessellation. That's what I really want to know, since that has gameplay possibilities.

 

[antonz]

>

Hey, at least you didn't say anything about tessellation. That's what I really want to know, since that has gameplay possibilities.

Tessellation has been a feature in GPUs for sometime now. Even the old 360 can do it though not very effectively.

That said I am off to work. Will try and catch up with this thread later but i think you will find someway to ad 30 pages Porker

 

[Log4Girlz]

Actually he confirmed it is using a (modern) GPU with "2011/12 bells and whistles" but that it doesn't have teeth I.E. what Arkam said months ago, BG currently speculates the GPU in the early dev kits to be 2.4x XB360.

So 2-4X 360's graphical grunt but with technology comparable to GCN (a 2011/12 GPU)

Lots of effects without much grunt is underwhelming.

I don't think it's wise to compare to laptops when we have the 360 came out in 2005 and PS3 in 2006.

Wii U has 2 or 3 years of GPU advancements and then some if we are to believe antonz.

If Wii U can't take a modern game Xbox 360 game and run it at 1080 P and 60 FPS while running a second screen at its native resolution at 60 FPS, then its nothing to write home about.

That's ok, we still have Nintendo games, they will sear your eyes with awesome. Everything else will be MEH.

 

[Krev]

Interesting idea but credit cards use pin numbers these days (at least they do here)

Normally you have the option to sign instead though.

They have speed pass chips in them that are NFC, so you just swipe and go.

Exactly, so that's one less use for the stylus!

http://img7.imagebanana.com/img/q6mpym69/1hqud2.png

The Wii U's secret feature is that each console works as a portal. Accessible only to Nintendo executives, of course.

 

[DragonSworne]

Who is Antonz?

 

[Gahiggidy]

I don't know, but if that was the case why would everyone be talking about his comments?

I just assumed his pessimism was driving the thread for the last few pages. I swear I saw that he had questions himself about the console.

 

[Portugeezer]

I just assumed his pessimism was driving the thread for the last few pages. I swear I saw that he had questions himself about the console.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O1hM-k3aUY

 

[test_account]

He also said the Zelda demo was running in 1080p, he doesn't know tech, but he also didn't claim to know the distance that it would receive, just that it was designed to be in the same room/vicinity, if Ni-Fi is used, I stand by my statement.

True, but i think that he would be informed enough to know that the system could be used all around the house or not. That does make quite a big difference, especially as a selling point. In an interview at CES 2012, he talked about some sensorbar stuff, so i think that the controller has to talk directly to the console. But yeah, i guess that it is not impossible that it can work through a wall or something. We'll see =)

 

[z0m3le]

Lots of effects without much grunt is underwhelming.

What he basically confirmed is that we could have something that looks better than Uncharted 3 but with all the bells and whistles (lighting, tessellation, ect.) If that is underwhelming than my expectations are far below yours lol.

 

[Gahiggidy]

test_account,

The sensor bar on the wuc is strictly for using the wiimote with the subscreen instead of the tv set. For example, the golf-ball tee shot.

 

[Log4Girlz]

What he basically confirmed is that we could have something that looks better than Uncharted 3 but with all the bells and whistles (lighting, tessellation, ect.) If that is underwhelming than my expectations are far below yours lol.

But will it be 1080 P at 60 FPS? That shouldn't be a stretch with reasonable and cost efficient hardware. Problem is that 'spensive tablet.

 

[z0m3le]

True, but i think that he would be informed enough to know that the system could be used all around the house or not. That does make quite a big difference, especially as a selling point. In an interview at CES 2012, he talked about some sensorbar stuff, so i think that the controller have to talk directly to the console. But yeah, i guess that it is not impossible that it can work through a wall or something. We'll see =)

Yeah, I remember them also officially saying wavebirds worked up to 30ft, but was infact possible to get them to 100ft, he simply didn't want to be caught in a lie/truly didn't know, so he told them that the controller was designed to work inside a small range from the console.

I don't really care too much, I'll definitely move the console close to wherever I lounge around if it's only something like 30ft.

 

[test_account]

test_account,

The sensor bar on the wuc is strictly for using the wiimote with the subscreen instead of the tv set. For example, the golf-ball tee shot.

I see. In the intreview, Reggie was asked why Nintendo chose to make an own tablet for the system. Then he said that the current tablets (iPad, Galaxy Tab etc. etc.) didnt have buttons, infrared and a sensor bar.

 

[BurntPork]

Tessellation has been a feature in GPUs for sometime now. Even the old 360 can do it though not very effectively.

That said I am off to work. Will try and catch up with this thread later but i think you will find someway to ad 30 pages Porker

Yeah, but I mean at a level that's actually useful. The R700 one is completely useless. I'm hoping it gets one more in-line with later GPUs.

 

[DragonSworne]

If you want maximum range just install the WiiU into the ceiling and go strictly DD for games.

Problem solved.

 

[Refreshment.01]

On the topic of AR and the lack of an outward facing camera: I'm wondering why all the fuss about this from some posters.
Augmented reality is possible on the controller as last we saw it. The forward facing camera is actually optimal as it can be stood up on a coffee table or tv stand and capture the room/players as they control the game using Wii Remotes.

You don't get what some of us are saying Fourth. The camera should be able to be rotated so it can works facing the user and outwards for AR games that use the sub screen.

I just want the Zelda demo graphics at 1080p as the average of what we'll get visually. I'd be totally happy with. The bird demo at 720p level of graphics would also be fine.

You'll be happy with anything that looks better than the Wii right now, once the competitors release their products comparisons will start and the graphics won't be good enough anymore.

The stylus is just so terrible for that controller design. It's awkward enough devoting one hand to stylus use with the small DS that could mostly sit on one palm; I can't imagine trying to play a game with it while using the circle pad.

Yes, the subscreen should've been designed for finger use and multi touch. Not one stylus occupying the hand limiting interaction. People playing the "precision" card should take into consideration possible gameplay applications vs accuracy. So far the only positive of the stylus is drawing but for those type of games Nintendo could create (or bundle) a Draw Pad since they are more or less cheap now, see Udraw.

 

[z0m3le]

But will it be 1080 P at 60 FPS? That shouldn't be a stretch with reasonable and cost efficient hardware. Problem is that 'spensive tablet.

Adding 40-50 to the console's GPU/CPU/RAM wouldn't get you to 1080P @ 60fps, it would just be used to try and catch up to PS4/XB3... Having said that, a 360 can produce 1080P @ 60fps, heck I think even the Xbox could output 1080i @ 30fps, the problem is, devs push the hardware with bells and whistles, not resolution.

But good news is, Wii U has a rumored 32MB attached to the GPU, which can be used to add AA to games with almost no hit to performance if it's set up anything like AMD did with the 360's 10MB attached to Xenos.

 

[frankie_baby]

If you want maximum range just install the WiiU into the ceiling and go strictly DD for games.

Problem solved.

Someone somewhere will actually do that

 

[test_account]

Yeah, I remember them also officially saying wavebirds worked up to 30ft, but was infact possible to get them to 100ft, he simply didn't want to be caught in a lie/truly didn't know, so he told them that the controller was designed to work inside a small range from the console.

I don't really care too much, I'll definitely move the console close to wherever I lounge around if it's only something like 30ft.

Reggie also mentioned something similar in his answer, saying that he had used the Wii controller in a fairly large room. This is however "one small signal" for controller usage, i wonder if it will be different when we talk about streaming video and sound on top of the "one small signal".

But yes, moving the console is not a big job, it just comes down to lazyness hehe.

 

[frankie_baby]

You don't get what some of us are saying Fourth. The camera should be able to be rotated so it can works facing the user and outwards for AR games that use the sub screen.

You'll be happy with anything that looks better than the Wii right now, once the competitors release their products comparisons will start and the graphics won't be good enough anymore.

Yes, the subscreen should've been designed for finger use and multi touch. Not one stylus occupying the hand limiting interaction. People playing the "precision" card should take into consideration possible gameplay applications vs accuracy. So far the only positive of the stylus is drawing but for those type of games Nintendo could create (or bundle) a Draw Pad since they are more or less cheap now, see Udraw.

SHOCKING NEWS fingers can be used

 

[Log4Girlz]

Adding 40-50 to the console's GPU/CPU/RAM wouldn't get you to 1080P @ 60fps, it would just be used to try and catch up to PS4/XB3... Having said that, a 360 can produce 1080P @ 60fps, heck I think even the Xbox could output 1080i @ 30fps, the problem is, devs push the hardware with bells and whistles, not resolution.

But good news is, Wii U has a rumored 32MB attached to the GPU, which can be used to add AA to games with almost no hit to performance if it's set up anything like AMD did with the 360's 10MB attached to Xenos.

IIRC a healthy GPU budget is like $100. That price would get you a very nice chip when bought from a foundry in bulk. $50 is a substantial increase.

 

[Aostia]

That the technology in it detracts from the overall system budget quite significantly, relative to where they money could be spent. This makes it a gamble, as in order for the Wii U to be unique and justify the budget spent on the pad versus processing hardware developers need to use the pad in interesting, game enhancing and sellable ways. As he (and I) feels most developers, specifically third parties, will reserve pad use for gimmicks like maps, alternate cams, and other junk that isn't integral to the game design, the pad's value decreases. What we're left with is a system with a core controller that is largely missused outside of anybody who isn't Nintendo, and if the pad didn't exist at all additional budget could have been put towards further modernising the Wii U's hardware.

I feel quite similar because I'm not interested in the pad at all. I'd rather the pad be gone, and instead have the HD Wii with waggle wands that I've wanted for some time.

It's quite depressing, but also true, your statement about third parties effort in general.
Personally, I prefer to have a different console, also if probably it will be exploited poorly, than a third very similar option compared to the next Durango and Orbis.
I know that you were talking about a remoteplus + better graphic console for your ideal Wii U, and not about a normal pad + better graphic console, but also the remoteplus would have been a victim of the third party laziness you described.
and due to the fact that we already had a generation of remote/remoteplus under-exploited, I prefer to see something brand new as the Upad can be, aside the remoteplus we'll still have.

 

[z0m3le]

You'll be happy with anything that looks better than the Wii right now, once the competitors release their products comparisons will start and the graphics won't be good enough anymore.

This is just a gross assumption, if better graphics made consoles obsolete, PS1 would be looked at quite a bit differently, same with PS2, and in fact, PS360 looked outdated pretty much day one thanks to PCs, and since that market has never taken off like the consoles... I think people can in fact, be satisfied with a certain level of fidelity. Current consoles are perfectly fine for the average gamer; except for lighting, blurry textures and subHD games.

 

[Refreshment.01]

SHOCKING NEWS fingers can be used

Oh god i don't even no if i should reply to this. The resistive screen doesn't work optimally for finger use, more complex interactions than tapping an on screen key left a lot to be desired in comparison to other tech. Also this resistive screen is not multi touch capable.

Do you get it now frankie?

This is just a gross assumption, if better graphics made consoles obsolete, PS1 would be looked at quite a bit differently, same with PS2, and in fact, PS360 looked outdated pretty much day one thanks to PCs, and since that market has never taken off like the consoles... I think people can in fact, be satisfied with a certain level of fidelity. Current consoles are perfectly fine for the average gamer; except for lighting, blurry textures and subHD games.

You are making big assumptions of what i implied in that post, because that´s not it at all, sorry. Just gonna said that Z0m31e X¬D

 

[frankie_baby]

Oh god i don't even no if i should reply to this. The resistive screen doesn't work optimally for finger use, more complex interactions than tapping an on screen key left a lot to be desired in comparison to other tech. Also this resistive screen is not multi touch capable.

Do you get it now frankie?

So tell me what sort of interactions you'd like to see on the screen

 

[Bluemercury]

So Antonz confirmed the Wii U is just an Xbox 360 with more RAM for textures? Very close to my worst case scenario lol.

who's Antonz???

 

[Log4Girlz]

who's Antonz???

A visitor from the future. He's not spilling anything about the Wii U :/

 

[lwilliams3]

There seems to be an an argument about rather or not it would have been better to use the remotes for the Wii u, and there was probably similar disagreements going on on Nintendo internal headquarters. The is probably one the reasons the Wiimotes+ will still be used in conjunction with the new pad.

As for nintendo investing more money into power instead, any boost of power nintendo gave the U was most likely due to the screen needing additional power. Similar to what they did with the 3ds getting more RAM and getting its GPU doubled.

 

[Refreshment.01]

So tell me what sort of interactions you'd like to see on the screen

Certainly frankie, just don't drag me into this disscussion if you are in the mind set of debating just for the sake of it. From the top of my head finger oriented stuff and multi touch.

Dragging on screen elements, compass gesture clockwise and counter clock wise (pivoting thumb and rotating index), 1 finger touch, 2 finger touch, 3 finger touch, 1 finger swipe, 2 finger swipe (etc), 5 finger grab, pinch contract, pinch expand. Some of them.

Simulating devices that require multiple contact points: PC keyboard, piano, DJ mixer, bongos, air hockey game. Musical instruments, etc.

There's plenty more and leaving outside very abstract stuff like kirky mini games, which Nintendo is relly good at (see Wario Ware series)

I used my thumbs perfectly well in OoT3D.

I still don't see why multitouch is a big deal and I'm currently using a multitouch trackpad with custom gestures.

Pinch to zoom in and out is annoying. Much prefer double tapping to zoom in. You can press a button to switch to zoom out.

Multiple buttons on the screen are substituted by real buttons.

Dragging and swiping have been done with a stylus before so that's not a big deal.

Stylus limits the user since it occupies one hand. Only good use of the stylus is precision drawing. There seems to be more pros to going multi touch and finger than stylus, You want a draw game sell or pack in a draw pad (cheap these days).

In fact Nintendo could design an accessory for the pad. A mounted transparent pad surface that lifts for precision drawing.

 

[BGBW]

I used my thumbs perfectly well in OoT3D.

I still don't see why multitouch is a big deal and I'm currently using a multitouch trackpad with custom gestures.

Pinch to zoom in and out is annoying. Much prefer double tapping to zoom in. You can press a button to switch to zoom out.

Multiple buttons on the screen are substituted by real buttons.

Dragging and swiping have been done with a stylus before so that's not a big deal.