The Broken Ska Record
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The thing is, both could happen and work very well. Small, personal conflicts throughout the first two acts that set up a great sequence of fights at the end.
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Marvel's The Avengers |OT| (Dir. Joss Whedon) [Spoilers unmarked]
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The thing is, both could happen and work very well. Small, personal conflicts throughout the first two acts that set up a great sequence of fights at the end.
Well he hasn't really gotten any love on the big screen so maybe I'm wrong. Fact of the matter is, I don't think he could carry a movie because people kind of just want to see the Hulk do his thing for the most part. In the comicbook medium, a slow burn is fine but I don't think it translates into film all that well in the case of the Hulk. Especially now when previews show nothing but action. It's hard to sit through all the slow parts when you know that the Hulk is gonna do some cool shit because you saw it in the commercials.
Basically I've yet to see what makes Banner an interesting character that can carry 85% of an entire movie. And I don't see how him being a "nice guy" will aid in that. What does that matter?
VariantX04
Loser slave of the system :(
Getting major Garth Marenghi vibes from Ruffalo's Banner in this pic.
As Whedon said, the Hulk is essentially a werewolf. Is it impossible to make a good werewolf movie?
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Solo, as far as I remember, you haven't even seen The Incredibles. In fact, I'm pretty sure you haven't seen any of the films Bird himself has written and directed (ie: every film outside of MI4).
You REALLY need to check out The Incredibles because you especially would fucking LOVE IT.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I was talking about this with the family last night: its definitely possible to have the Hulk work as the center of one movie (the origin story and coming to grips with his problem). The problem is how do you make any more Hulk-centric movies? Where do you go with the character from there?
The Elite
BOSS
But X-Men just went through a semi-reboot. I don't care if its a little too on the nose, I'd love to see another Fantastic Four done right.
endorsed
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I don't want Bird working on any of these properties. He should be working on his own original material again. He needs to write his own scripts again. That was the failing of MI4.
Darth Kupi
Banned
Ok I finally caved to the hype and the news of the record-breaking run.
Just got back from seeing Avengers. Last movie/s I saw in the theatre were Iron Man and TDK some years ago. (best summer blockbuster season EVER?)
I give it a 'meh'. Underwhelmed. Not a bad movie by any stretch, but not great either. Just middle of the pack.
Reminded me of Serenity/Firefly, which I also saw in theatres. I went in with insane expectations and it didn't deliver for me. Like Firefly I think it was a victim of its own hype (I was a Firefly TV show fanboy.)
And yes, I have seen all of the Marvel Cinema universe films prior. Either in theatres (The good ones like Iron Man1 and TIHulk) or on DVD (the rest).
The alien "invasion" was pathetic. I wanted more of Stark and Hulk, and less of the other losers.
The only bright spot for me was that maybe this will pave the way for Planet Hulk, WWHulk movies.
Just got back from seeing Avengers. Last movie/s I saw in the theatre were Iron Man and TDK some years ago. (best summer blockbuster season EVER?)
I give it a 'meh'. Underwhelmed. Not a bad movie by any stretch, but not great either. Just middle of the pack.
Reminded me of Serenity/Firefly, which I also saw in theatres. I went in with insane expectations and it didn't deliver for me. Like Firefly I think it was a victim of its own hype (I was a Firefly TV show fanboy.)
And yes, I have seen all of the Marvel Cinema universe films prior. Either in theatres (The good ones like Iron Man1 and TIHulk) or on DVD (the rest).
The alien "invasion" was pathetic. I wanted more of Stark and Hulk, and less of the other losers.
The only bright spot for me was that maybe this will pave the way for Planet Hulk, WWHulk movies.
I liked MI4, but I get your point. I was just responding to GJB's stumping for Bird to take over The Avengers.
VariantX04
Loser slave of the system :(
Truth.
Good Job Bob
Member
You're right, it's definitely on par with Avengers objectively --- I think few would argue otherwise.
It's just that you come to expect more out of a Brad Bird production than you do a Joss Whedon/Marvel Studios one, you know?
You look at any of Brad Bird's films outside of MI4 and they all have stakes, tension, emotion, etc --- MI4 just doesn't have that. It just has humor and passable, nicely shot action. So yeah, same as Avengers.
All in all, Bird did a great job with MI:GP; I can't wait to see what he does with a live action movie he has full creative control over, it's going to be something else for sure.
He hasn't seen Incredibles?
Wow, he really really needs to watch it.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Ditto this.
Black Widow was the biggest pleasant surprise of the movie for me.
Pity Hawkeye sucked so hard. Easily the worst part.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Screamingly large plot hole in MI4 keep it form being as good as Avengers.
Edit: Which were not Bird's fault. Directing (especially action) was Aces.
Double Edit: Solo hasn't seen the Incredibles? God damn, man, take the day off and go see it in the best quality available to you. See if for the score alone if you must!
When Hawkeye actually became Hawkeye and not a brainwashed goon, he was pretty cool. Hopefully he shows up in another film here soon and people see how great he can be.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I didn't like him any better when he came back to the team.
megashock5
Member
What if he did something like FF, but wrote the script in addition to directing? As long as he treats the characters correctly it could work, and judging by The Incredibles he would get the whole family dynamic.
Good Job Bob
Member
Josh Trank is probably going to end up directing the FF reboot.
The fuck? Is this "make shit up" day? lulz. I own Incredibles, Ratatouille and Iron Giant.
You got thrown under the bus, brah.
Getting major Garth Marenghi vibes from Ruffalo's Banner in this pic.
And now I miss Darkplace
So I saw the movie opening weekend, and the feeling after I got out was Best Comic Movie Ever. After letting it settle for a while, now I think...
it's still the best comic movie ever, just for pure enjoyability. The Dark Knight trilogy is going for something else, and that's cool. Spider-man's early efforts are hard to separate from Spider-man 3. The only other competition for me would be the Incredibles(I think it deserves to be classified as a comic movie, but understand if others disagree), which is a flawless movie, and may rise back up to number one for me, but is lacking in Holy Crap moments compared to the Avengers.
it's still the best comic movie ever, just for pure enjoyability. The Dark Knight trilogy is going for something else, and that's cool. Spider-man's early efforts are hard to separate from Spider-man 3. The only other competition for me would be the Incredibles(I think it deserves to be classified as a comic movie, but understand if others disagree), which is a flawless movie, and may rise back up to number one for me, but is lacking in Holy Crap moments compared to the Avengers.
This movie gave me Hulkamania, so I rewatched Hulk and Incredible Hulk; it's so frigging clear to see that Whedon "gets" Hulk as a character and in effect makes the Banner-character better.
The thing that bugged me the most about IH was that it was in essence the same chase-movie as the first one. IH would've been more interesting if Norton showed he had some level of control over the Green Giant in the beginning of the movie, like Ruffalo did in Avengers.
It would've made the necessary anger-outburst at the end of IH to defeat Abonination more dramatic and would've taught Banner that he either has to gain more control over Hulk, or accept that there are threats that require him to "unleash" Hulk completely.
Instead, we got the same movie Ang Lee gave us, sans the Hulk-pitbulls, which were awesome no matter how you spin it.
The thing that bugged me the most about IH was that it was in essence the same chase-movie as the first one. IH would've been more interesting if Norton showed he had some level of control over the Green Giant in the beginning of the movie, like Ruffalo did in Avengers.
It would've made the necessary anger-outburst at the end of IH to defeat Abonination more dramatic and would've taught Banner that he either has to gain more control over Hulk, or accept that there are threats that require him to "unleash" Hulk completely.
Instead, we got the same movie Ang Lee gave us, sans the Hulk-pitbulls, which were awesome no matter how you spin it.
It seems they tried to have a parallel between Blomsky and Banner where one wants to embrace the power and the other wants to get rid of it. But it was really poorly done. As much as I like Tim Roth, he was wasted in that film, despite doing his best to salvage it. Your idea sounds really well done and there's so much wasted potential to the whole film, despite having some awesome "Hulk smash" scenes.
The Incredibles remains the best superhero movie, IMO. Avengers is fun as hell and pretty much what I expected from a superhero mash-up film, but I don't feel it has enough emotional impact to topple Incredibles.
Still, great fun. Good for Joss and all involved.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Yeh, I got the whole parallel bit, which makes it even more shameful they didn't go with a somewhat-in-control-Banner; Blomsky literally shows him how strong you can get if you embrace the "monster".
I love Tim Roth in anything he does, even IH.
Ah well, it will be forever on my BluRay-shelf, if just for that opening-scene.
The dumb mediocre "average" is trying to bring the talented, naturally brilliant superman down with evil collectivism!
Pai Pai Master
Banned
The same way they treat Hulk in any of his stories. The problem with Hulk in the movies before Avengers was that both films spent far too much time on the internal conflict between Banner and Hulk - he has a lot of interesting supporting characters and villains to help flesh out his stories but both movies seem to put a primary focus on Banner and the consequences of his accident. Audiences have had this pounded into their heads for 3 movies, and now that Avengers has made it clear that Banner is in control of himself and The Hulk, they can move on past the "origin" phase of his story.
TIH at least introduced one of the classic Hulk villains, but there are far more out there and they can be used to progress Hulk's story much farther. After Avengers I'm pretty sure everyone out there wants to see Hulk in a movie where he's presented as we recognize him in comics today - not a mindless ragemonster but an actual character with personality, motivations and purpose.
The Hulk as he's been presented so far on film can't carry a movie of his own, so they need to evolve him on screen into the Hulk persona that has worked for lengthy comic book stories for years. He should be able to comprehend what people are telling him and he should be able to speak at least coherent sentences to carry on dialogue with other characters. Otherwise they have to rely far too much on Banner for the entire movie and we're stuck with yet another poorly-paced film with the same Hulk-Out climax that didn't work until Avengers gave the character more depth.
VariantX04
Loser slave of the system :(
And now I miss Darkplace
This calls for a rewatch!
The emotional impact of the Incredibles (like all Pixar movies) is definitely what carries it to the top. Has-been father goes through mid-life crisis, tries to recapture youth but becomes distant from his family, and in the end reaffirms the importance of his family (that is, his present and future, not his past) above all else. The emotional climax of I can't lose you again is far above anything offered in the Avengers. With so much screen time dedicated to setting up a team, though, and each character having so much pre-existing baggage they had to fit in, it's understandable that the Avengers couldn't quite plumb the emotional depths yet. I will be disappointed, though, if A2 doesn't try to offer more than smash and laugh.
Good Job Bob
Member
Given that Joss Whedon interview posted earlier it's pretty apparent he wants to take Avengers 2 to a more personal and emotionally affective level, but the question is will Marvel Studios/Disney let him?
The best part of the Avengers is that we don't get the "woe is me" tortured soul Banner routine, but more of an "easy going because he has to be" performance from Ruffalo, trying to take everything in stride. Which I find more appealing.
Was there in influx of good werewolf movies that I missed?
I dont know. The main issue I've always had with Hulk movies was the Banner part of it. It's not similar to a werewolf movie where the human character can be whoever you want it to be. You don't have that flexibility. In the case of Banner, he has to be depressed and a little angry but mostly sad which is boring to watch. The reason other superhero movies work so well is because the alter ego is also fun. Tony Stark, Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent to a certain degree etc etc. They have fun stories and are fun to watch. What makes banner fun to watch? And if you read comics, what makes banner fun to read about?
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Nothing. It's why I don't read Hulk comics!
Good Job Bob
Member
This nonsense that you can't make a good Hulk movie is total bunk, I mean really? You get the right people on board and you can make anything work.
Ruffalo as Banner was superb, easily one of the best parts of Avengers.
Ruffalo as Banner was superb, easily one of the best parts of Avengers.
85% chance that we won't be getting a Hulk movie before Avenger 2 anyway, so the speculation doesn't really have too much basis at this point, since who knows what'll happen in A2.
I'm hoping he's shot into space near the end of A2, then the year after that we get a planet Hulk movie.
I'm hoping he's shot into space near the end of A2, then the year after that we get a planet Hulk movie.
Banner can also have a sense of humor, and has come to terms with his condition. Didn't you watch The Avengers? How about the 70s show?
Banner tried to kill himself, and even that is impossible. At that point, he's come to Jesus as they say, and trying to do something with his life. He tries to help other people. It's not surprising that Black Widow finds him helping people in India. That's who the real Banner is. As screwed up as he is, and as bad as people treat him, he will still try to do the right thing.
A great movie can be written about a man like that.
Not really. It isn't a movie in a vacuum. It's tied to the events going on in the MCU, so they are intrinsically limited in where they can go with it. I imagine Avengers 2 will open up more options, though.
Good Job Bob
Member
Eh, even within whatever limitations the MCU impose on it, it can still be great if you just got the right people make it.
I believe it when I sees.
But I did see the Avengers and the best scenes he had involved Tony Stark. I just think he works best as a support character. And you're giving me reasons as to why he's an interesting person, not why he'd be interesting to watch. I can't imagine a movie where he walks around helping people being all that entertaining.
The Anti-Monitor
Banned
Best way to have a cool Hulk movie is by adding She-Hulk. Buuuuut since that's not gonna happen the best they can do is to have 90 minutes of pure smashing of The Hulk beating the shit out of some gamma monsters.
I hope they do let Whedon make a more personal, less bombastic Avengers 2. I'd be glad if the whole movie is buildup for a big showdown at the end with the Masters of Evil and/or Ultron, so they can save Thanos for last.
I hope they do let Whedon make a more personal, less bombastic Avengers 2. I'd be glad if the whole movie is buildup for a big showdown at the end with the Masters of Evil and/or Ultron, so they can save Thanos for last.
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