John Bilbo
Member
Endgame is where the Marvel movies really fell off. There is no recovering from how they handled time travel and all the people coming back.
Will She? Or Will she beIn 10 years Florence Pugg will be very fat.
yeah dark avengers had osborn as "iron-man", gargan as spider-man, moonstone as ms marvel and bullseye as hawkeyeI think they went by the Dark Avengers but to the public they were just the Avengers.
I think that could have been a more interesting team to have in the MCU and could have set up some interesting dynamics. I believe they had Venom as Spider-Man for awhile as well.yeah dark avengers had osborn as "iron-man", gargan as spider-man, moonstone as ms marvel and bullseye as hawkeye
yeah that was gargan, he had the venom symbiote during that time instead of brock.I believe they had Venom as Spider-Man for awhile as well.
I always hate when a movie has all English, when it shouldnt be. Make it more believable with foreign languages and add subtitles.Saw this, at 1.25X. Thank god, it's a slog. The main actress is really terrible, her Russian accent is just bad. It's also stupid that she talks with her father in English, why?
The movie itself feels just bad.
I always hate when a movie has all English, when it shouldnt be. Make it more believable with foreign languages and add subtitles.
The "all english" thing has always been a Star Trek trope, even when it makes no damned sense (Troy infiltrating a Romulan ship for example, is she still speaking 'english' to Romulans or do they just see her speaking it but hear Romulan in their head?). But it works, usually, because star trek aliens are very humanlike, thus ought to be able to make english noises with their mouths.I always hate when a movie has all English, when it shouldnt be. Make it more believable with foreign languages and add subtitles.
It's like watching Star Trek and everything in the universe speaks English.... oh that's because humanity invented a gadget that can translate every alien language in the galaxy to english.
If that's the case then why do they speak english to each other.
I was never a ST fan, but when I saw the first ST reboot film way back with Chris Pine. The stupidest thing was the alien bad guy spoke better English than most of the cast. lol
Saw this, at 1.25X. Thank god, it's a slog. The main actress is really terrible, her Russian accent is just bad. It's also stupid that she talks with her father in English, why?
The movie itself feels just bad.
I always hate when a movie has all English, when it shouldnt be. Make it more believable with foreign languages and add subtitles.
It's like watching Star Trek and everything in the universe speaks English.... oh that's because humanity invented a gadget that can translate every alien language in the galaxy to english.
If that's the case then why do they speak english to each other.
That does kina beg the question why she speaks in accented english then, if it was her first language, or she learned it as a child at least.What are you guys talking about? The Black Widow movie showed Yelena and Alexei lived in the U.S. for quite a while when Yelena was a child. This is flat out referenced multiple times in Thunderbolts when they bring up Yelena's American soccer team. It's flat out the reason the movie is called Thunderbolts*. Also, both had been clearly living in the U.S. for a while when this movie starts.
In fact, Alexei never raised Yelena in Russia, she went to the Red Room after the family left the U.S.
Edit: oh wait, the first poster admitted to rushing the film, no wonder they missed details like that.
That does kina beg the question why she speaks in accented english then, if it was her first language, or she learned it as a child at least.
And then Natasha, who WAS raised in Russia I believe, has flawless english.
Just gotta chalk it up to the choices of the actresses, I guess.
I'm not sure you know how learning languages work. If these girls were raised speaking 'normal' english, then even if they knew/spoke russian as well they wouldn't have a russian accented english. If Yelena and Natasha were both raised together equally, then why the divergent english accents? If I was creating a soviet spy program to infiltrate the US, why teach them to speak like a russian?They were Russian spies. Alexei and the mother most likely used Russian accents when they were in their home. Then Yelena is taken into the Red Room. The Red Room took girls from all nations. So the Red Room teachers probably used English as a default (and taught the non-English speaking one's English) as teaching them assassins and such it would be important to know one of the most used languages. In fact, since the Red Room served Russia, that would be the language that would be the lowest importance to teach them, they likely rarely had to commit missions against people inside their own nation.
Natasha was raised with Yelena under Alexei and her mother, not sure why you would think otherwise even if you forgot that detail in the Black Widow movie as her being Alexei's sister is brought up several times in Thunderbolts.
Natasha was out of the Red Room's Black Widow program and working for SHIELD by the time we first meet her in the MCU. Hawkeye was the one who saved her and convinced SHIELD to give her a chance. Yelena didn't get out until the Black Widow movie which is sometime after Civil War but pre-Infinity War. Also, Alexei was a victim of the Snap but not Natasha. So Alexei hasn't had anywhere near as much time to shake the Russian accent that she would have had more time to develop as she was working under the Red Room for much longer.
I'm not sure you know how learning languages work. If these girls were raised speaking 'normal' english, then even if they knew/spoke russian as well they wouldn't have a russian accented english. If Yelena and Natasha were both raised together equally, then why the divergent english accents? If I was creating a soviet spy program to infiltrate the US, why teach them to speak like a russian?
We have a lot of Russian folks in my country, their kids even though they hear Russian accented Hebrew it doesn't translate to them speaking in accented Hebrew. They speak regular Hebrew.I already explained this. Yelena stayed in the Red Room's Black Widow program longer than Natasha. So she would have heard Russian-accented English around here much more often than Natasha did.
We have a lot of Russian folks in my country, their kids even though they hear Russian accented Hebrew it doesn't translate to them speaking in accented Hebrew. They speak regular Hebrew.
I dunno even know why this is a debate. Let's move on. Her accent is not good, why she has one, that's for the ages.Ooookay, but Yelena is 25 or so when we first see her in Black Widow. Why are you comparing her to some Russian children?
Yelena spent what, 3 years in America? Natasha as well, both in that ultra critical childhood period where you can really learn proper language. There is NO WAY, within the established fictional background, Yelena should be speaking "like dis, vit a rooshian axxent" while Nastasha is straight up american sounding. Whether or not her adoptive parents should have been able to speak unaccented english is also debatable, kinda hard to be an undercover agent in the US in the 90's sounding like you just stepped out of the Kremlin, but whatever.I already explained this. Yelena stayed in the Red Room's Black Widow program longer than Natasha. So she would have heard Russian-accented English around here much more often than Natasha did.
The spy thing was when they were living as a family in the U.S. Once she had become a full Black Widow, it was more about taking out targets, and not exclusively in the U.S. She wasn't hiding in the U.S. for long periods as a fake citizen to gather intel or anything. There would be no reason to hide her accent as an adult.
I dunno even know why this is a debate. Let's move on. Her accent is not good, why she has one, that's for the ages.
Yelena spent what, 3 years in America? Natasha as well, both in that ultra critical childhood period where you can really learn proper language. There is NO WAY, within the established fictional background, Yelena should be speaking "like dis, vit a rooshian axxent" while Nastasha is straight up american sounding. Whether or not her adoptive parents should have been able to speak unaccented english is also debatable, kinda hard to be an undercover agent in the US in the 90's sounding like you just stepped out of the Kremlin, but whatever.
What they DON'T do is have normal russian, normal english, and then this accented english when speaking to each other. The MCU isn't interested in lots of subtitles so I understand the reason Yelena and Red Guardian don't speak much, if any, russian to each other in private. It's just the nature of film and the qualities of the actors to make these choices, trying to fanwank it into making perfect sense is never gonna work.
Sigh, way to miss the point.Acting and accents tend to not look/sound good when played in 1.25x speed, I am aware.
Dude, we didn't even see Alexei in the timeline since the Black Widow movie. Which again, is between Civil War and Infinity War. So he may have spent near a decade living in the U.S. by the time we see him in Thunderbolts. I don't find it hard to believe he's speak to English to his daughter, and since she likely spoke mostly English to him while he was raising her in the U.S., it makes sense she'd also speak English to him.
And no, you clearly don't know much about accent changes or have a very narrow experience of it if you think that childhood permanently cements an accent or something. My cousin moving to Boston in her 20's and then leaving it in her 30's and how quickly she both gained and lost a Boston accent in that time speaks to that.
Sigh, way to miss the point.
I'll just leave this debate where it is. Any professional linguists here can weigh in, or first generation immigrants.
Alexi even speaks English whilst in a Russian prison in black widow so, like you said, I don't think the mcu is too concerned about language accuracy and more about making it obvious that he's Russian and making it easy to understand what he's saying.Yelena spent what, 3 years in America? Natasha as well, both in that ultra critical childhood period where you can really learn proper language. There is NO WAY, within the established fictional background, Yelena should be speaking "like dis, vit a rooshian axxent" while Nastasha is straight up american sounding. Whether or not her adoptive parents should have been able to speak unaccented english is also debatable, kinda hard to be an undercover agent in the US in the 90's sounding like you just stepped out of the Kremlin, but whatever.
What they DON'T do is have normal russian, normal english, and then this accented english when speaking to each other. The MCU isn't interested in lots of subtitles so I understand the reason Yelena and Red Guardian don't speak much, if any, russian to each other in private. It's just the nature of film and the qualities of the actors to make these choices, trying to fanwank it into making perfect sense is never gonna work.
Got to say Doom85.
I don't know if you work for Disney but in every Disney company related thread where some people criticize the product you always seem to respond asap and defend it to the bone.
All you really need is "was a kid in country X, learned language Y without an accent". It's as simple as that. Others have even given examples which you dismiss. Hell, I'm SURROUNDED by 1st gen kids that speak nothing but spanish at home, but guess what? They speak 'american english', not accented english, because what you suggest (hearing an accent at home) is not actually how most kids learn to speak language.Well, hopefully those "professionals" actually remember the events of the Black Widow movie and this movie, otherwise their opinions aren't that relevant. And why would immigrants be comparable, as I said they switched countries multiple times and were raised under a very unique program involving girls from all nations and being taught by Russian instructors but learning and retaining multiple languages to do their assassin job properly. You really expect someone here has had that unique experience?
"Hey papa, do you speak fluent russian?"Sorry if I find the frequent mistakes posters make here remembering details of not just prior entries but even the film or show they just watched frustrating.
Like, this movie flat out explains why they're initially called Thunderbolts. An AMERICAN soccer team Yelena played for, and that her dad remembered fondly. It's referenced in FOUR different scenes throughout the film. Yet one of you is all, "she has NO REASON to speak to her father in English"?
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All you really need is "was a kid in country X, learned language Y without an accent". It's as simple as that. Others have even given examples which you dismiss. Hell, I'm SURROUNDED by 1st gen kids that speak nothing but spanish at home, but guess what? They speak 'american english', not accented english, because what you suggest (hearing an accent at home) is not actually how most kids learn to speak language.
Regardless of 'Red Room' nonsense
JFC dude, you simply can not wrap your head around how language is ACTUALLY LEARNED. Or how multi-lingual people act. And you seem so embedded in this Red Room stuff, as if they would train all their girls in the most obvious, easily detected accented languages. OF COURSE these girls need to blend in, seem like a local, when infiltrating (please explain how 'infiltrate' and 'covert' are not synonyms in this context???) countries and assassinating people.
You do you, man. This topic is quickly becoming the definition of insanity and Thunderbolts def ain't worth the effort. And by your 'logic', if childhood doesn't count but adulthood does, when why doesn't Bucky have a thick rooshian accent, as his entire adult life was getting thawed out, trained up by the russians to do some mission, and then back into the cooler, for decades!
Haha, I've hot him on the ignore list but not surprised to see thisGot to say Doom85.
I don't know if you work for Disney but in every Disney company related thread where some people criticize the product you always seem to respond asap and defend it to the bone.
Haha, I've hot him on the ignore list but not surprised to see this![]()
The cute Peaches avatar throws the cishets off their gameStill thinking about me constantly, stop, I told you I'm not interested.
Also look at that Freudian slip. "hot", eh?
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