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[sflufan]

I just wanted to know your opinion on that. It was not a trick question. Just wanted an answer.

Then I suppose by the standards that society sets, she should be charged with a crime of some sort.

I say of "some sort" because my personal moral belief system dictates that an infant is simply of "lesser value" to society and therefore charging someone with "murder" for the killing of an infant strikes me as, well, overkill.

 

[Centurion]

can we split america into two already?

The New Americas & Bible country

 

[Brian Griffin]

Needs to be a federal task force dedicated to making sure pregnant women don't eat sushi or more than two servings of salmon per week.

Or go near stairs, or ride in cars, or cross the street, or ride a bike without a helmet, or walk near ice, or go near people who are kicking, etc.

Investigate all the pregnants!

 

[Alucrid]

Hmm...I don't know.

 

[JGS]

can we split america into two already?

The New Americas & Bible country

The New Americas suck if it involves getting rid of premie babies with no consequence and is pro-suicide "because he doesn't love me".

Please split lol.

 

[MThanded]

Then I suppose by the standards that society sets, then she should be charged with a crime of some sort.

I say of "some sort" because my personal moral belief system dictates that an infant is simply of "lesser value" to society and therefore charging someone with "murder" for the killing of an infant strikes me as, well, overkill.

 

[Centurion]

can't wait till politicians use this as ammo.

The New Americas suck if it involves getting rid of premie babies with no consequence and is pro-suicide "because he doesn't love me".

Please split lol.

She attempted suicide, the woman clearly needs help.

 

[Kitsunebaby]

What if the murder suicide was attempted seconds after birth?

I don't think the scenarios are comparable at all.

I would say that if she attempted that and survived but the baby didn't then she should be charged with its death but not for the attempted suicide.

I still don't know if I consider newborns as "humans" since they lack many of the qualities that I associate with humanity, but birth is probably the best marker for those sorts of laws.

 

[sflufan]

I still don't know if I consider newborns as "humans" since they lack many of the qualities that I associate with humanity, but birth is probably the best marker for those sorts of laws.

AT LONG LAST -- someone who thinks along the same lines I do!

 

[MThanded]

It's interesting to read about different people's viewpoints. Some of you have interesting views on life and the value of life.

 

[Loofy]

Needs to be a federal task force dedicated to making sure pregnant women don't eat sushi or more than two servings of salmon per week.

What if I told you she was eating whale meat. Maybe then you'd think it was a worthwhile cause. Saving flipper and all.

 

[Kitsunebaby]

It's interesting to read about different people's viewpoints. Some of you have interesting views on life and the value of life.

I don't really think life has an inherent value to it. Basically it's value is whatever society assigns to it.

 

[Kettch]

Here's the previous thread for reference.

 

[usea]

It's interesting to read about different people's viewpoints. Some of you have interesting views on life and the value of life.

I definitely think the death of an infant is far less tragic than that of say, a teenager or somebody in their 20s. There is a lot less invested in them, and their mind isn't fully formed.

Certainly not saying it's all fine and dandy. Losing a baby a severe blow to parents. But burying your teenager is a lot worse. (not that the personal sadness of victims is some kind of measure of wrong)

 

[nateeasy]

I don't think the scenarios are comparable at all.

I would say that if she attempted that and survived but the baby didn't then she should be charged with its death but not for the attempted suicide.

I still don't know if I consider newborns as "humans" since they lack many of the qualities that I associate with humanity, but birth is probably the best marker for those sorts of laws.

 

[JGS]

She attempted suicide, the woman clearly needs help.

I'm not disagreeing with that.

She just is also capable of committing a crime while also needing help.

 

[sflufan]

To me, a newborn infant has even less value than most newborn animals who exhibit far more intelligence and awareness than a human infant.

 

[Dude Abides]

What if I told you she was eating whale meat. Maybe then you'd think it was a worthwhile cause. Saving flipper and all.

I'd ask why she was spending money on expensive whale meat instead of saving it for diapers.

 

[antonz]

nm this thread isnt worth it

 

[bengraven]

Why does it matter if she's Chinese?

 

[sflufan]

and this is why people like you should never breed so we can get rid of such ignorance

Oh don't worry, I have no intention of ever having children.

 

[eznark]

nm this thread isnt worth it

Congratulations, you've acknowledged his edginess.

 

[MooseKnuckles]

This is absolutely insane. You would have to be a borderline psychopath to think that charging the mother is the right cause of action.

 

[Centurion]

To me, a newborn infant has even less value than most newborn animals who exhibit far more intelligence and awareness than a human infant.

now this is taking it to the next level lol

 

[Huff]

To me, a newborn infant has even less value than most newborn animals who exhibit far more intelligence and awareness than a human infant.

And now I'm reminded why I gave up trying to argue with internet strangers

 

[MThanded]

This is absolutely insane. You would have to be a borderline psychopath to think that charging the mother is the right cause of action.

Go on.

 

[JGS]

To me, a newborn infant has even less value than most newborn animals who exhibit far more intelligence and awareness than a human infant.

Your opinion about human baby life is irrelevant to why the woman is charged. When you are Lord Commander on High, you can go all Joffrey on them & kill as many defenseless stupid babies as you want.

Until then, whether your view is correct or not does not matter considering society fortunately thinks more highly of them in theory at least as evidenced by law.

 

[The Technomancer]

Man, this is one of those things where I'm like "the fetus was at eight months, and at that point in development I definitely agree that it was 'killed' but is punishing this woman going to do anything constructive?"

 

[MThanded]

To me, a newborn infant has even less value than most newborn animals who exhibit far more intelligence and awareness than a human infant.

What?

 

[Kettch]

Man, this is one of those things where I'm like "the fetus was at eight months, and at that point in development I definitely agree that it was 'killed' but is punishing this woman going to do anything constructive?"

It'll send a message to other suicidal pregnant women: Make sure your suicide attempt works. You don't want to end up in jail!

 

[JGS]

It'll send a message to other suicidal pregnant women: Make sure your suicide attempt works. You don't want to end up in jail!

Or even better, wait until you have the kid to do something so selfish.

 

[DGRE]

And now I'm reminded why I gave up trying to argue with internet strangers

Thank you for saying this. I was just about to engage him, but you're right. What's the point?

 

[Kettch]

Or even better, wait until you have the kid to do something so selfish.

I'm sure the fear of jail time stops a lot of people from attempting to commit suicide.

"I'd better not kill myself, what if I have to go to jail after?!"

 

[sflufan]

Your opinion about human baby life is irrelevant to why the woman is charged. When you are Lord Commander on High, you can go all Joffrey on them & kill as many defenseless stupid babies as you want.

Until then, whether your view is correct or not does not matter considering society fortunately thinks more highly of them in theory at least as evidenced by law.

Why is that "fortunate?"

Many of the great societies of history routinely practiced infanticide to little or no detriment. It's only because we've chosen to adopt Judeo-Christian morality with some Enlightenment thought thrown in for good measure that we're so very horrified by the practice.

They recognized that an infant was simply not of the same inherent value as an older individual.

 

[DGRE]

Why is that "fortunate?"

Many of the great societies of history routinely practiced infanticide to little or no detriment. It's only because we've chosen to adopt Judeo-Christian morality with some Enlightenment thought thrown in for good measure that we're so very horrified by the practice.

They recognized that an infant was simply not of the same inherent value as an older individual.

Actually, modern science has revealed that babies are insanely intelligent and aren't just the babbling idiots that past societies thought them to be. Your logic is flawed.

 

[Loofy]

Why is that "fortunate?"

Many of the great societies of history routinely practiced infanticide to little or no detriment. It's only because we've chosen to adopt Judeo-Christian morality with some Enlightenment thought thrown in for good measure that we're so very horrified by the practice.

They recognized that an infant was simply not of the same inherent value as an older individual.

Handicapped homeless people have even less value to society than infants.. doesnt mean we can just wipe them out.
Youve been watching too much 300.

 

[Centurion]

Why is that "fortunate?"

Many of the great societies of history routinely practiced infanticide to little or no detriment. It's only because we've chosen to adopt Judeo-Christian morality with some Enlightenment thought thrown in for good measure that we're so very horrified by the practice.

They recognized that an infant was simply not of the same inherent value as an older individual.

jesus dude, you're like one step away from Breivik levels over here lol.

It's not Judeo-Christian morality to want babies to live. It's plain morality.

 

[MooseKnuckles]

Go on.

It shows such an enormous lack of empathy for the mother. Prosecuting this women will not stop cases like this occurring in the future because rational thought doesn't come into play in such extreme circumstances. Clearly she is (or was) in need of psychological help, and I'm sure that the guilt of having caused her child's death will be more than punishment enough.

This is a tragic situation and the death of an unborn child at 8 months is absolutely horrible, but there is absolutely no societal benefit in prosecuting the mother.

 

[SoulPlaya]

Come on people, she was 33 weeks pregnant! It's a crime, IMO.

 

[jett]

Yes, I absolutely support abortions right up the actual birth.

That is sickening.

 

[sflufan]

It's plain morality.

Oh yes, that relative thing!

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Her actions led to the death of her child.Should she be punished for that?Maybe.

 

[JGS]

Why is that "fortunate?"

Many of the great societies of history routinely practiced infanticide to little or no detriment. It's only because we've chosen to adopt Judeo-Christian morality with some Enlightenment thought thrown in for good measure that we're so very horrified by the practice.

They recognized that an infant was simply not of the same inherent value as an older individual.

This isn't really true. Some cultures killed old people despite their vastly superior wisdom to the ones killing them without any detriment. Does that mean their society was actually the better for it?

Again, your view doesn't matter since it can't cause ongoing harm unless you have a child you don't want, but for your sake and the safety of kids everywhere, please stay at least 100 yards away from daycares, Babys R Us, nurseries, & diaper sections of the supermarket.

I'm sure the fear of jail time stops a lot of people from attempting to commit suicide.

"I'd better not kill myself, what if I have to go to jail after?!"

The reason for the suicide was silly to begin with but if she's disturbed in the head, can't control that.

However, it is infinitely better to kill yourself after having a kid.

As cruel as it sounds, no one would care if she succeeded in killing herself and it wouldn't garner a news story. She's not in prison for trying to kill herself. The bonehead tried to take her kid with her.

 

[Kusagari]

When it comes to abortion my stance is pro-choice. However this baby was 33 weeks so by any means can be considered a human being. Pre borns much younger have a reasonable survival rate.

The situation appears similar to someone who wants to kill himself in his car while having passengers on board. Of course her mental health situation needs to be taken into account. 45 years seems way overboard.

Those comparisons are complete shit to me though. She has no way to commit suicide without killing the baby, it's not comparable to some dude who randomly decides to commit suicide with people in the car. In effect she's being held hostage against her will by the baby.

I've always been against abortions this late, like I assume most pro-choice are, but stuff like this makes me pause and rethink that stance. All I can really do when looking at something like this is be thankful I was born with a dick.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

The woman was suicidal - even if the death of a 33 month old fetus should be considered homicide, theres no way in the world she should be held responsible.

 

[Kinyou]

Actually, modern science has revealed that babies are insanely intelligent and aren't just the babbling idiots that past societies thought them to be. Your logic is flawed.

Do you have source on that?

Because the last time I checked were newborns still failing the mirror test:

Humans tend to fail the mirror test until they are about 18 months old, or what psychoanalysts call the "mirror stage".

link

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

Come on people, she was 33 weeks pregnant! It's a crime, IMO.

crime against whom exactly?

God? nice try bringing religion back into the state.

This is absolutely insane. You would have to be a borderline psychopath to think that charging the mother is the right cause of action.

also this.

 

[Htown]

33 weeks.

Lock her up.

 

[Zoe]

I have been pro-choice all my life. I don't support 33 week abortions though. I'm assuming most/all pro-choice people don't. With that being said, you can't compare this to an abortion case unless you think abortions at 33 weeks should be allowed.

This was an eight month old fetus!!!

Agreed 100%. I don't believe the murder charge should stick, but she should be guilty of attempted feticide.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Tragic situation all around, hope the girl gets some help.

nothing else to add to this story.