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[squall23]

My mom taught me France French, and because of that I can't understand Quebec French. That's really all I have to say here.

 

[TimeKillr]

I dislike living in Quebec, personally.

Stupid students.

Don't say that Matt, we all love you here.

My mom taught me France French, and because of that I can't understand Quebec French. That's really all I have to say here.

I shouldn't have to. I can have far better experience and qualifications but they still hired some bozo because he spoke Quebec French. That's discrimination.

This is funny. There is no such thing as "Quebec French" and "France French".

Believe me. If I go to France, the French will understand me when I speak. When the French come here, we understand them, quite well actually.

The only difference is in slang usage. Seriously.

And the hate here is strong! Especially from BC - this is the LAST province I thought would hate Quebec. I have yet to meet someone from Quebec who hates BC - I seriously don't understand the one-sided hate, aside from *maybe* stealing a bunch of game dev jobs because the govt subsidizes a ton of them here? But that's so specific that it can't be that.

The thing is Quebec is different. No matter how you slice it, it's basically a whole different culture, with much different references to pretty much everything.

Also, to the guy who said people don't speak english in Laval - my GF is bilingual (but speaks english exclusively at home), and a lot of her friends live in Laval and only speak english. The last time we went, I only ever heard english being spoken there. Montreal is becoming more and more english by the day - it's moving more to the east every year.

My personal philosophy is knowing only french or english is absolutely pathetic when you live in MTL. I'm french-canadian, my entire family only speaks french. A lot of my friends are anglos. I learned english when I was in high school very quickly for various reasons, and I'm insanely happy I did. The french people who live on the island who refuse to learn english are fucktards, as they are cutting themselves from the world. The english people who live on the island who refuse to learn french are fucktards, because they're closing themselves to the people they live with. Close-mindedness is the most ridiculous thing in this day and age.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I'm with the other Toronto people; I don't really have any problem with Quebec and I like visiting that province. had lots of great times in Montreal. I do roll my eyes a bit at their politics and some of the issues I wish they would relax a bit on. And I was surprised to find my Ontario-school-taught French seems to be more effective in Paris than in Quebec (so many contractions!).

in a sense, even though they are like the crazy sister that drives you nuts, you know the country is probably better for having to work together with the French-speaking population (which is not limited to Quebec).

I do sort of blame them for the fact that I pay taxes towards Catholic schools, though. merde.

edit – lol at Valru, who calls someone a bozo and turns around and paints a whole province as "repulsive" with one brush. way to fucking represent.

edit2 – holy shit at the BC hate towards Quebec, I wasn't aware

what a repulsive attitude you have! lol.

Would far rather we kept Quebec. I personally find most people from Ontario to have a repulsive attitude.

Why? I know this is aimed at people who said something like I said, including the post I quoted above but what's so wrong with it? Nothing against quebec the city, nothing against the people personally, just can't bring myself to care about their whole ordeal for a multitude of reasons.

Is indifference really repulsive?

 

[Ether_Snake]

2 hours debate on the economical advantages of Quebec being a sovereign country, at the assembly today. Aussant and Blanchet totally crushed the federalists, it was pathetic.

http://www.assnat.qc.ca/fr/video-audio/AudioVideo-42301.html?support=video

When the only arguments you have left because each one is dismantled right in front of you by articulate and intelligent deputies, is that a Canadian passport is a cool thing to have cause people like Canada (yeah, less so every year under Harper), I think the case is closed.

I really like the part where the federalist minister is using Greece as an example of how good it is for Quebec to be part of Canada, because now Greece can be saved by Germany, supposedly in the same way that Canada can help Quebec in the case of a crisis. You can't be more wrong than that when it comes to the EU situation, lol. In fact, it is another good argument in favor of independence: Canada's dollar, especially due to Alberta's oil sands, which Quebec does not consumer or benefits from in any way, inflates the Canadian dollars, which destroys export-oriented jobs in Quebec. Same thing as the Euro VS southern European economies.

Federalists are inherently colonialist-monarchists. They use the same failed arguments. I'm glad all countries that became independent are happy to have become so. According to Canada, the US would have been fine as a British colony. Are there any Americans who want to return to being a British colony?

Edit: Here is his closing comment, translated in English. It's long, but only a short part of the two-hour segment.

I will revisit the examples that the minister uses. He spoke of having to make payments for his house. Well, in Quebec, we make the payments for our house, but if we take the example of laws and tax treaties, we do not decide the rules in our own house, we do not decide how are distributed salaries of people who live there and we do not decide on the relationship with our neighbors.

So yes, we want to pay our house, of course, like every country in the world but we also want to decide our laws, our taxes and our treaties. And when you see them laughing, implying the idea of ​​a Quebec passport, as if we were small-bread people, unable to self-manage as hundreds of countries worldwide can, this is a colonialist instinct. Is inherited at birth or is acquired? It amazes me to see a minister laugh at the idea that one day there might be a Quebec passport. Quebec, territorially, is larger than the vast majority of countries worldwide. Economically, it is already, as a mere province with one hand tied behind its back, richer than 90% of the world's nations. Even in terms of population, with only 8 million, it is more populous than most countries of the world. There are more countries in the world that have a smaller population than Quebec than the reverse.

So, in any respect, a sovereign Quebec, as a country like so many others, is laughable? He speaks of conquering the world. I'll tell him about conquering the world with both legs rather than one tied behind his back, it will go even faster. Obviously Quebec is doing better than Chad and Somalia, but those are not our comparisons. Our comparison is our own potential and currently we do not control our potential. We send our means to a government that is not ours. Is it hard to understand?

He also speaks of rating agencies. He relies on it to say that all is well as a province. I remind him that this is the rating agencies that caused the global financial crisis which he uses to say that things are terrible elsewhere. Do you want to give them as much credibility when it comes time to talks about the province, but no credibility when it comes to talking about what caused an unprecedented financial crisis? Let us be consistent.

Then, my colleague also spoke of Haiti. It's very sad, what happened in Haiti, and I'm glad that Quebec has come to the aid of that country. The ridiculousness of that situation is that the summit on Haiti was held in Montreal and the Quebec government did not even have a seat at the table. It is the federal government which spoke for Quebec, in a summit on Haiti in Montreal (where the biggest Haitian community in Canada is). This is another way to illustrate the absurdity of being a colonized province in a country that has nothing to do with our interests.

Back to the economy. Instead of sending billions in tax subsidies to oil, we could develop renewable energy here, we would have already gone ahead with it. For now, it's billions of our tax credits in Quebec which are going to oil companies and oil development in Alberta, which has no absolutely no use for us in Quebec.

Second, instead of hundreds of billions in military spending that Canada is currently involved in using our taxes, we could improve intercity transportation, for example. There was talk of creating wealth. This would create thousands of jobs in Quebec with Quebec technologies, linking the major regions of Quebec together, in an environmentally friendly way, reducing greenhouse gases since the transport sector is the largest emitter of greenhouse gases. Instead we send the money to the military now because we do not have a say in its use.

What is the impact we want in Quebec? Instead of paying for jet fighters and bombs, are we not better off developing a civilian airliner, greener, consuming less fuel, that the whole world is looking forward to? I believe that Quebec has the brains to be those who will develop these aircrafts. Our greatest asset in Quebec is our gray matter, and it is renewable, but not if we are seeking to increase student debt by making them pay 75% or 80% more, students who must postpone or cancel their studies in many cases, by the thousands.

I talked about the military. This is not the only example. Private prisons that will be imposed on us using our own money, can we not do something else with that money? Among other things, free education for even less money than prisons will cost us, prisons imposed on us by a federal system that controls our laws, and we have the means to do so here. Is this the kind of freedom to which the Minister aspires to? I doubt it.

Our forestry sector. You were talking about creating wealth. Our forest industry is a promising sector. It's not just newsprint, it is also leading-edge products. Nanotechnology, smart paper, etc.. Quebec has all the advantages to be a leader there. It is also necessary to help sectors in Quebec instead of sending our money to the car industry in southern Ontario. You talk about wealth creation. That is one example.

I mentioned earlier as Kyoto, Canada has reneged on our behalf, even though we were totally against the idea of ​​rejecting Kyoto. Well, there's an economic aspect to the environment too, because soon, everywhere, there will be carbon credit exchanges of non-pollution. A sovereign Quebec with products made in Quebec would make hundreds of millions, even billions with such a system of grants, while a Quebec province will export products "Made in Canada" which will pay its share for the pollution of Canada. Canada has become a rogue state for the environment. This is another way to illustrate very clearly the lack of freedom Quebec has when it comes to its own interests, our desire to bet on the green economy and renewable energy. We cannot, currently, because Canada is using our own money to bet on oil and the rejection of Kyoto.

You also talk about equalization payments. Equalization payments is an illusion of dependence in Canada. Equalization payments are worth less than all the costs associated with duplication and inefficiencies imposed on us by our mere membership in Canada. The benefits for Quebec to do what it wishes to with its own money is in the billions. Therefore, we must also stop to this spirit of dependence of Canada, that without Canada, we could not read or write, as the Minister implied.

Duplication is part of all departments. And that, that is counted in billions. I gave the example of a simple tax return that alone is worth 0.5 billion annually in savings. If we had one instead of two, it speaks for itself what could be done with that money rather than sending in a duplication of paperwork for companies and millions of hours that will not be applied to leisure time or business productivity.

Sovereignty will also give us the ability to respond to any crises that occur. Obviously Quebec will face the same crisis as other countries in the world when it is sovereign. But it may decide how to respond to crises in relation to its advantages and interests, and not according to the benefits and interests of Western Canada or the Maritimes of Canada which decide for their own interests. And let us decide for our interests, we, at 8 million Quebecers. I repeat, we are a people more numerous than most countries in the world, richer than the vast majority of countries in the world even without control on all of our means. Imagine what we could do if we did.

So there are no economic arguments against sovereignty. There may be arguments of fear, false fear, imposed on us every time we made the debate. But we must get out and show the facts as they are. There is not a country which regretted having gained its freedom. It never happened. Does that mean that all countries that are poorer than Quebec now are imposters and should become provinces? That is also ridiculous. Quebec must become a country.

I also remind the minister, who boasts at every chance he has of having taken part in the international sphere, that in the word international, there is the word National. It is not interregional, not interprovincial, intercantonal. It is international. It should be for a country to attend these meetings. To participate in discussions at the tables that will define the economic future of all nations in the coming years, it must be a country to have a voice. And it is imperative for Quebec. So this is a project of opening to the world, not of seclusion.

And I must remind you of a quote from Tocqueville. Sovereignty will pay, but even if there were economic challenges, as Tocqueville said: "He who seeks freedom for anything other than freedom itself is meant to serve." And you do it very well, gentlemen.

 

[Hieberrr]

You only forgot to put "le" before français, so it's far from total french fail.

Yes, the same "le" everyone loves to hate in those damn rage meme faces.

I guess I wasn't too far off haha

 

[Tiktaalik]

And the hate here is strong! Especially from BC - this is the LAST province I thought would hate Quebec. I have yet to meet someone from Quebec who hates BC - I seriously don't understand the one-sided hate, aside from *maybe* stealing a bunch of game dev jobs because the govt subsidizes a ton of them here? But that's so specific that it can't be that.

The media narrative is behind the BC Quebec hate. Vancouver has an incredibly centralized media and it tilts right. Quebec is a left leaning province. It's politically convenient to constantly put down Quebec.

 

[Bisnic]

The media narrative is behind the BC Quebec hate. Vancouver has an incredibly centralized media and it tilts right. Quebec is a left leaning province. It's politically convenient to constantly put down Quebec.

So its all about politics again? I dont even hate BC, i always thought it looked like a nice province(especially with the beautiful Rocky Mountains). But now that i know they all hate us, well... i don't know what to say.

 

[RevoDS]

2 hours debate on the economical advantages of Quebec being a sovereign country, at the assembly today. Aussant and Blanchet totally crushed the federalists, it was pathetic.

http://www.assnat.qc.ca/fr/video-audio/AudioVideo-42301.html?support=video

When the only arguments you have left because each one is dismantled right in front of you by articulate and intelligent deputies, is that a Canadian passport is a cool thing to have cause people like Canada (yeah, less so every year under Harper), I think the case is closed.

I really like the part where the federalist minister is using Greece as an example of how good it is for Quebec to be part of Canada, because now Greece can be saved by Germany, supposedly in the same way that Canada can help Quebec in the case of a crisis. You can't be more wrong than that when it comes to the EU situation, lol. In fact, it is another good argument in favor of independence: Canada's dollar, especially due to Alberta's oil sands, which Quebec does not consumer or benefits from in any way, inflates the Canadian dollars, which destroys export-oriented jobs in Quebec. Same thing as the Euro VS southern European economies.

Federalists are inherently colonialist-monarchists. They use the same failed arguments. I'm glad all countries that became independent are happy to have become so. According to Canada, the US would have been fine as a British colony. Are there any Americans who want to return to being a British colony?

Edit: Here is his closing comment, translated in English. It's long, but only a short part of the two-hour segment.

I happened meet Aussant in person last month and see one of his speeches, and he's given me the impression of being one of the most articulate and inspiring political leaders we have currently. This one pretty much cements my view.

It's very refreshing compared to the back-and-forth between the PQ and Liberals.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Yes it's a bit sad he had to leave the PQ and form his own party. Him and Bernard Drainville are great. Sadly I think Charest will be re-elected because there is only his party VS three pro-independence parties (CAQ doesn't count, no one cares about them). So one right-leaning party, highly corrupt, etc., VS three center-left to left parties, all for independence. I can't imagine wtf will happen if Charest wins again. He already got his majority with like 30% of the votes, he could get it with even less if the votes on the other side continue to split. A majority government elected by 30% of the voters, and 30% of the voting-age population isn't voting. That's a 21%-supported majority government.

 

[Bisnic]

Yes it's a bit sad he had to leave the PQ and form his own party. Him and Bernard Drainville are great. Sadly I think Charest will be re-elected because there is only his party VS three pro-independence parties (CAQ doesn't count, no one cares about them). So one right-leaning party, highly corrupt, etc., VS three center-left to left parties, all for independence. I can't imagine wtf will happen if Charest wins again. He already got his majority with like 30% of the votes, he could get it with even less if the votes on the other side continue to split. A majority government elected by 30% of the voters, and 30% of the voting-age population isn't voting. That's a 21%-supported majority government.

Funny you'd say that when they're always mentioned in the polls along with the PLQ and PQ. No one cares about the parties outside of those three.

 

[Ether_Snake]

SQ and ON are also in the polls. CAQ, for all the talk about it during its formation, is a big flop. It keeps going lower in the polls.

 

[AlexMeloche]

Yes it's a bit sad he had to leave the PQ and form his own party. Him and Bernard Drainville are great. Sadly I think Charest will be re-elected because there is only his party VS three pro-independence parties (CAQ doesn't count, no one cares about them). So one right-leaning party, highly corrupt, etc., VS three center-left to left parties, all for independence. I can't imagine wtf will happen if Charest wins again. He already got his majority with like 30% of the votes, he could get it with even less if the votes on the other side continue to split. A majority government elected by 30% of the voters, and 30% of the voting-age population isn't voting. That's a 21%-supported majority government.

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

Spoiler

NO!

SQ and ON are also in the polls. CAQ, for all the talk about it during its formation, is a big flop. It keeps going lower in the polls.

Eh, my dad is still voting for them next election. But then he would vote for anyone "new" (if Léo Bureau-Blouin ever goes in politics, he's gonna vote for him, go figure).

 

[kswiston]

If Quebec separated, they wouldn't be taking the entire geographical province with them. First Nations groups made it clear in the last referendum that they have zero desire to separate, and would fight for the right of self determination. The entire northern half of the province is first nations territory. I wouldn't be surprised if some other portions of the province resisted separation even if a referendum was successful.

The debate recap makes it seem like the separatist groups take for granted that they will have access to all of the natural resources and geography of current Quebec.

 

[sweetvar26]

So I lived in Ontario for almost 8 years and I'm about to move to Quebec. I've never lived there other than the weekend visits to Montreal couple of times for partying. I do not know French by the way, not even basic.

I might be taking few accounting classes, not sure yet but anything I should be knowing before I move there?

Edit: I'm going to be living in Montreal starting sometime this month.

 

[Bisnic]

So I lived in Ontario for almost 8 years and I'm about to move to Quebec. I've never lived there other than the weekend visits to Montreal couple of times for partying. I do not know French by the way, not even basic.

I might be taking few accounting classes, not sure yet but anything I should be knowing before I move there?

Edit: I'm going to be living in Montreal starting sometime this month.

If you're going to stay in Montreal, you should be ok if you don't know french. It's the only city in the province where you will do fine though.

 

[kswiston]

Yeah, living in Quebec City for a year with only basic french was rough. Took me 2-3 months before I felt comfortable buying groceries, retrieving packages from the post office, or doing things you take for granted when you speak the common language. Definitely have a deeper respect for recent immigrants to Canada.

Take French Lessons if you can. I learned more French in a 6 week intensive course than I did in 10 years of Ontario Public School.

 

[Captain N. Tenneal]

I think one of the main causes of the animosity towards Quebec from the rest of Canada is the entitled manner of the politics, as some people have pointed out in this thread. Many people are deeply hurt and offended that a large potion of Quebec wants to leave Canada, especially when they feel that Canada in general has done a lot to keep Quebec happy. It kind of makes it feel like the "What have you done for me lately?" province.

 

[Liberty4all]

If Quebec separated, they wouldn't be taking the entire geographical province with them. First Nations groups made it clear in the last referendum that they have zero desire to separate, and would fight for the right of self determination. The entire northern half of the province is first nations territory. I wouldn't be surprised if some other portions of the province resisted separation even if a referendum was successful.

The debate recap makes it seem like the separatist groups take for granted that they will have access to all of the natural resources and geography of current Quebec.

This is a very good point. First Nations have made it crystal clear they want to stay in Canada.

 

[IceCold]

Don't say that Matt, we all love you here.






This is funny. There is no such thing as "Quebec French" and "France French".

Believe me. If I go to France, the French will understand me when I speak. When the French come here, we understand them, quite well actually.

The only difference is in slang usage. Seriously.

And the hate here is strong! Especially from BC - this is the LAST province I thought would hate Quebec. I have yet to meet someone from Quebec who hates BC - I seriously don't understand the one-sided hate, aside from *maybe* stealing a bunch of game dev jobs because the govt subsidizes a ton of them here? But that's so specific that it can't be that.

The thing is Quebec is different. No matter how you slice it, it's basically a whole different culture, with much different references to pretty much everything.

Also, to the guy who said people don't speak english in Laval - my GF is bilingual (but speaks english exclusively at home), and a lot of her friends live in Laval and only speak english. The last time we went, I only ever heard english being spoken there. Montreal is becoming more and more english by the day - it's moving more to the east every year.

My personal philosophy is knowing only french or english is absolutely pathetic when you live in MTL. I'm french-canadian, my entire family only speaks french. A lot of my friends are anglos. I learned english when I was in high school very quickly for various reasons, and I'm insanely happy I did. The french people who live on the island who refuse to learn english are fucktards, as they are cutting themselves from the world. The english people who live on the island who refuse to learn french are fucktards, because they're closing themselves to the people they live with. Close-mindedness is the most ridiculous thing in this day and age.

Nah Quebec French does exist. Not just in the slang but in the pronunciation as well. There is a very large disconnect between the written French and the French that's spoken by most people. Especially if you are the type of person who speaks in joual.

 

[TimeKillr]

Nah Quebec French does exist. Not just in the slang but in the pronunciation as well. There is a very large disconnect between the written French and the French that's spoken by most people. Especially if you are the type of person who speaks in joual.

Even if you speak joual, you can still make yourself understood by the French. Likewise - it's just a matter of slightly adjusting a few things but it's still joual, not "Quebec french".

As for written and oral, the same applies to english.

 

[Giard]

I just wanted to add that I went to France last summer for a trip. I was born in Quebec, French is my first language.

When I tried to order something at a restaurant in Paris, the waiter answered my questions in English. I'm guessing he thought I was an anglophone trying to speak French. This happened on 3 separate occasions.

My French is actually pretty good, and my English is infinitely better than theirs... I was kinda offended. I understood them perfectly.

This didn't happen when we went to smaller towns, and met some really nice people who had absolutely no problem understanding me.

Even if you speak joual, you can still make yourself understood by the French. Likewise - it's just a matter of slightly adjusting a few things but it's still joual, not "Quebec french".

As for written and oral, the same applies to english.

The name "joual" is nowadays pretty much only a derogatory term for the way we speak.

 

[TimeKillr]

I just wanted to add that I went to France last summer for a trip. I was born in Quebec, French is my first language.

When I tried to order something at a restaurant in Paris, the waiter answered my questions in English. I'm guessing he thought I was an anglophone trying to speak French. This happened on 3 separate occasions.

My French is actually pretty good, and my English is infinitely better than theirs... I was kinda offended. I understood them perfectly.

This didn't happen when we went to smaller towns, and met some really nice people who had absolutely no problem understanding me.


The name "joual" is nowadays pretty much only a derogatory term for the way we speak.

Yeah that thing with Paris is just weird. I just don't understand it - I've heard that from several people. It's just... stupid. Meanwhile, like you said, if you go outside Paris, there's gonna be zero problems.

 

[Llyranor]

I've never had problems communicating in France, incl. Paris. In Normandy, I've even had people say they really like the Quebec accent! They probably get lots of visitors at Juno Beach.