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Magic: The Gathering |OT|

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kirblar said:
Black's been the worst color in the game for a while now. :( (At least since Lorwyn, probably goes back much further than that, though.) It's a big issue, and they're aware of it.

I'm laughing at the freakout over Arbor Elf, though. I'm surprised some of you guys aren't connecting the dots with Llanowar being removed. Arbor Elf is in because we're about to have some very, very nice toys to play with in the near future, and well, you want the Elf around when they rotate in. :)

edit: Negate/Essence Scatter/Cancel is a perfect baseline for core set countermagic, and I doubt they ever mess around with it again.
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I still say we're going to see Noble Hierarch (I know you're talking about the lands though)
 
divisionbyzorro said:
Black certainly got a little worse in AVR, but I guess my opinions probably don't count for too much since I've only been in Magic since Innistrad. :)

And yes, Arbor Elf, Farseek and the like are all very clear foreshadowing for what's to come. I'm a little excited, actually. As a relative newbie, the idea of playing in a set that allows for some creativity in color mixing sounds like a blast.
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Gold blocks are the best for limited.

Except for Alara. Ignore that one.
 
Anybody else considering blue mill as a strategy when standard rotates and M13 comes in? They've been building toward it now for the last few sets, but these two cards solidify it in my mind.

Mind Sculpt -- 1U
Sorcery
Target opponent puts the top seven cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
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Jace's Phantasm -- U
Creature - Illusion
Flying
Jace's Phantasm gets +4/+4 as long as an opponent has ten or more cards in his or her graveyard.
1/1
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Mixed with stuff like Thought Scour and Drownyards, not to mention the reprinting of the M12 Jace, I'm interested to see how it could work.
 
It will probably be a deck in limited, but they haven't changed the fact mill cards have no board impact in constructed. The 5/5 is very strong but not game changing on it's own as the enablers do nothing.

Also Reanimator will probably be even better post rotation and is as close to a hard counter as you can get in this game.
 
thefil said:
So it's not just me, right? Triple AVR draft is awful.
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I get crushed by the same decks every time I try to draft:

Red deck filled with removal
Green deck with forcemage/druids familiar.

But I've gotten like 3-4 mythics in a row now, so I'm probably trying to draft around things that aren't really viable, but are valuable. Heh.
 
I feel like I am the only person on Earth who enjoys AVR draft ;( Maybe I just keep getting lucky...or maybe it's better for Winchester...? That's been my primary format lately.
 
OnPoint said:
Anybody else considering blue mill as a strategy when standard rotates and M13 comes in? They've been building toward it now for the last few sets, but these two cards solidify it in my mind.

Mixed with stuff like Thought Scour and Drownyards, not to mention the reprinting of the M12 Jace, I'm interested to see how it could work.
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I see a lot of hype around Jace's Phantasm, and I just don't get it. It's a 1-drop aggressive creature that only works in decks that aren't doing anything particularly aggressive. 10 cards in your opponent's library is a lot, and takes a lot of work to get going, as opposed to something like Delver where the transformation sorta just happens.

thefil said:
So it's not just me, right? Triple AVR draft is awful.
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It's terrible. Worse than that, it's also completely boring.
 
divisionbyzorro said:
I see a lot of hype around Jace's Phantasm, and I just don't get it. It's a 1-drop aggressive creature that only works in decks that aren't doing anything particularly aggressive. 10 cards in your opponent's library is a lot, and takes a lot of work to get going, as opposed to something like Delver where the transformation sorta just happens.



It's terrible. Worse than that, it's also completely boring.
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Well, for one, there is the new Mind Sculpt card - 1U target opponent mills 7 cards. So that might help.


Anywho, DOTP2013 is coming with a 6-card booster pack instead of a promo card. Apparently one of the 6 cards will be an alternate art card, and the rest M13.
 
divisionbyzorro said:
I see a lot of hype around Jace's Phantasm, and I just don't get it. It's a 1-drop aggressive creature that only works in decks that aren't doing anything particularly aggressive. 10 cards in your opponent's library is a lot, and takes a lot of work to get going, as opposed to something like Delver where the transformation sorta just happens.
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Thought scour turn one, mill seven turn two and that's nine in already. I mean, getting them to ten in the 'yard won't be difficult. I think it'll pair nicely with Delver, which encourages sorceries and instants that mill based on card type alone.
 
Sorry my phone won't let me clean that post up for some reason. I'll post a decklist in this spot later, when I can clean that up on my pc

EDIT:

So here's the decklist I promised. I wanted to build a Food Chain/Misthollow Griffin deck, so I did.

Creatures
2x Misthollow Griffin
3x Merfolk Looter

Enchantments
4x Food Chain
2x Helix Pinnacle

Instants
1x Force of Will
2x Mana Short
2x Surgical Extraction
4x Forbidden Alchemy
1x Mystical Tutor

Sorcieries
3x Ponder
4x Preordain
3x Brain Geyser
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Foresight
1x Tezzert's Gambit

Lands
12x Island
4x Forest
2x Hinterland Harbor
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Misty Rainforest
Click to expand...

I basically built this with what I had lying around. The gameplan is obviously to pull off the Misthollow Griffin/Food Chain combo with either Brainstorm in my hand or Helix Pinnacle in play. I just love the idea of Helix Pinnacle as a win condition. So fun.

It's your basic, non-interactive combo strategy. Mow through your library until you get the pieces needed. Merfolk Looter is great because not only does he mill through your stack, but he can provide crucial Food Chain mana if you're a land short to pop off your combo. I have Surgical Extraction in as a backup in case my Griffin ends up in the graveyard before I can Force of Will or Foresight it away. It's also good if you desperately need to remove an opponent's something.

It could really benefit from a better mana base... but I can't justify spending 80+ on Tropical Islands right now, nor 30ish for the Ravnica block ones. Thinking about grabbing a couple Yavimaya Coasts, since those are pretty cheap.
 
OnPoint said:
Thought scour turn one, mill seven turn two and that's nine in already. I mean, getting them to ten in the 'yard won't be difficult. I think it'll pair nicely with Delver, which encourages sorceries and instants that mill based on card type alone.
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Okay, so you've milled 7 turn two and have zero board presence. You're probably losing...?

I don't get Mind Sculpt either. If they kept their 7-card hand, they have 53 cards in the library. If the game goes 10 turns (and you'd be lucky to do this without getting overrun), you have to mill 43 cards. Mind Sculpt hits for 7; that's 16% of the life total that your deck is going to hit. Would you play a card that read "1R: Sorcery: Deals 3 damage to target opponent?" (well, 3.25 or something, but you get the idea)

Okay, so you power up Jace's Phantasm. But that card is clearly designed to beat the opponent down; 5/5 in the air is a lot! So are you running a mill deck or a beatdown deck? If you're running a mill deck, is Phantasm just going to be a wall? If you're running a beatdown deck, what does this give you that Delver doesn't?

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything; I'm just struggling to see how Jace's Phantasm is better than Delver. Sure, getting a 5/5 in the air early is enticing. But for once I feel like the "dies to removal" argument is valid. If I lay Phantasm turn 1, then spend resources to mill my opponent and power it up, I effectively get 3-for-1'd when my opponent Doom Blades it. The reason Delver is so good is that you don't spend any resources to transform it, and you can realistically attack for 3 in the air on turn 2. The only thing you give up when it transforms is a tiny bit of information about your hand. Jace's Phantasm requires you to waste time durdling about with milling, while your opponent is building his own board.

If I'm pairing it with Delver, I'm diluting the instant and sorcery pool, thus making Delver worse, or I'm taking a slot away from some other creature. I have a hard time imagining a Delver list that would really want these things.

Maybe I just don't have enough imagination, but I'm really struggling to envision a brew that consistently gets this thing to a 5/5 enough ahead of the curve to make it worth running.

Now, if Jace's Phantasm was a Zombie, we'd be going somewhere! I'm sure Alchemist decks could fit him in.
 
divisionbyzorro said:
Okay, so you've milled 7 turn two and have zero board presence. You're probably losing...?

I don't get Mind Sculpt either. If they kept their 7-card hand, they have 53 cards in the library. If the game goes 10 turns (and you'd be lucky to do this without getting overrun), you have to mill 43 cards. Mind Sculpt hits for 7; that's 16% of the life total that your deck is going to hit. Would you play a card that read "1R: Sorcery: Deals 3 damage to target opponent?" (well, 3.25 or something, but you get the idea)

Okay, so you power up Jace's Phantasm. But that card is clearly designed to beat the opponent down; 5/5 in the air is a lot! So are you running a mill deck or a beatdown deck? If you're running a mill deck, is Phantasm just going to be a wall? If you're running a beatdown deck, what does this give you that Delver doesn't?

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything; I'm just struggling to see how Jace's Phantasm is better than Delver. Sure, getting a 5/5 in the air early is enticing. But for once I feel like the "dies to removal" argument is valid. If I lay Phantasm turn 1, then spend resources to mill my opponent and power it up, I effectively get 3-for-1'd when my opponent Doom Blades it. The reason Delver is so good is that you don't spend any resources to transform it, and you can realistically attack for 3 in the air on turn 2. The only thing you give up when it transforms is a tiny bit of information about your hand. Jace's Phantasm requires you to waste time durdling about with milling, while your opponent is building his own board.

If I'm pairing it with Delver, I'm diluting the instant and sorcery pool, thus making Delver worse, or I'm taking a slot away from some other creature. I have a hard time imagining a Delver list that would really want these things.

Maybe I just don't have enough imagination, but I'm really struggling to envision a brew that consistently gets this thing to a 5/5 enough ahead of the curve to make it worth running.

Now, if Jace's Phantasm was a Zombie, we'd be going somewhere! I'm sure Alchemist decks could fit him in.
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Who says you have to use it that aggressively? It's a potential mid-to-late game big body you can cast and leave counterspell mana up. It could force an opponent to really consider their gameplan, if he's sitting on the table as a 1/1 and they have 9 cards in their graveyard. Day of Judgement in blue-white looks much better when you can one-drop a 5/5 flier. That's just off the top of my head. I don't think he's a world beater, but I definitely think he has his place.
 
Question: If I attack with a creature, and my opponent decides not to block, is it legal to put an enchantment or buff on that creature before the combat damage goes through?

for example, I attack with a 5/5, they decide not to block, then I try to play giant growth to do more damage, knowing now that he will not be blocked?
 
bounchfx said:
Question: If I attack with a creature, and my opponent decides not to block, is it legal to put an enchantment or buff on that creature before the combat damage goes through?

for example, I attack with a 5/5, they decide not to block, then I try to play giant growth to do more damage, knowing now that he will not be blocked?
Click to expand...

Yes.

You may use an instant spell or any activated ability on a permanent that does not have summoning sickness or says use only as a sorcery.

You cannot cast a sorcery to do this or use an enchantment, unless somehow the enchantment has Flash.
 
OnPoint said:
Who says you have to use it that aggressively? It's a potential mid-to-late game big body you can cast and leave counterspell mana up. It could force an opponent to really consider their gameplan, if he's sitting on the table as a 1/1 and they have 9 cards in their graveyard. Day of Judgement in blue-white looks much better when you can one-drop a 5/5 flier. That's just off the top of my head. I don't think he's a world beater, but I definitely think he has his place.
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Hm. Now that seems like a much more reasonable line of play; but I still feel like 10 cards in the graveyard is a lot to ask if you're not dedicated to milling them (although to be fair, I hardly ever count my opponent's graveyard because it's rarely relevant, so I'm sorta going on gut feeling here). I could see it as a maybe sideboard against a deck that does run a lot of instants and sorceries, but then again, with so much flashback and Snapcaster, even Delver ends up exiling half its graveyard.

It would be interesting to playtest it in something like an Esper control deck though.

Negator said:
Yes.

You may use an instant spell or any activated ability on a permanent that does not have summoning sickness or says use only as a sorcery.

You cannot cast a sorcery to do this or use an enchantment, unless somehow the enchantment has Flash.
Click to expand...

Well, technically you can use activated abilities of permanents with summoning sickness if the ability doesn't require you to tap it as part of the cost. :)
 
divisionbyzorro said:
It would be interesting to playtest it in something like an Esper control deck though.
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You were right the first time when you said you didn't get it. Control decks want to dedicate as few spots as possible to win cons, a mill strategy that wants to fuel this guy will need a lot more than drown yards for it not to be a dead card most of the time
 
divisionbyzorro said:
Hm. Now that seems like a much more reasonable line of play; but I still feel like 10 cards in the graveyard is a lot to ask if you're not dedicated to milling them (although to be fair, I hardly ever count my opponent's graveyard because it's rarely relevant, so I'm sorta going on gut feeling here). I could see it as a maybe sideboard against a deck that does run a lot of instants and sorceries, but then again, with so much flashback and Snapcaster, even Delver ends up exiling half its graveyard.

It would be interesting to playtest it in something like an Esper control deck though.
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Honestly, I tend to take an extreme liking to cards that just aren't that good. I desperately want Parallel Lives to work and it's just not that great. I guess I'm just enthralled with the idea of a one mana 5/5 flier with no drawbacks... mill will probably be a better deck without him in it. But I know I'm going to try it out way more than I should lol
 
kirblar said:
Black's been the worst color in the game for a while now. :( (At least since Lorwyn, probably goes back much further than that, though.) It's a big issue, and they're aware of it.
Click to expand...

Lor/Ala had U/B Fae, G/B elves, B/W Tokens and B/R Aggro. Ala/Zen had Jund, Vampires and a few others. Zen/Som had Vamps, Esper Cawblade and Tezzeret. The current meta has Zombies and various black based control decks.

I'm not sure what you're talking about.
 
Venfayth said:
Does anyone know of a place to get custom card sleeves? I really want to get some Persona card sleeves:

pXK9d.png


The only thing I found even close is this Kickstarter:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/divingdragongames/your-art-card-sleeves

I pledged just because I can literally find no where else that offers this service.
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I have been looking for over two years for sleeves with that back or a way to get them made :(
 
Hex said:
I have been looking for over two years for sleeves with that back or a way to get them made :(
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The guy running this kickstarter seems pretty legit. Once (if) I get my sleeves from him, I'll make sure I post here, and pm you if you want, if he's willing to do more for other people.
 
Played a garbage BUG control deck tonight that was a ton of fun. It was basically a fat stack of really good two-ofs. Massacre Wurm, Black Sun, Grave Titan and Consecrated Sphinx with a pile of removal, Snapcaster, Mana Leak, plus Rampant Growth and Solemn Simulacrum for getting me to six mana before I was dead. Would have finished 2-1-1, but conceded my win in round 4 to my buddy who is better than I am and was playing a deck with an actual opportunity to win in top 8. At one point in that match, I cast a Massacre Wurm that cleared out 6 spirit tokens and would have made way for a lethal attack, but he had a Ratchet Bomb on 6 to destroy the Wurm so that he didn't take any damage for the dead creatures. Less pleasing to me was the match I drew with a dude playing angels. The guy must have gained 20 life over the course of game three with Seraph Sanctuary. The judge called time and on the first of our five extra turns, I popped Tamiyo ultimate and go on to cast my one copy of Sorin's Vengeance each turn, leaving myself on 50 and him on 1. Would've loved the win, but it was too comical not to enjoy.

Massacre Wurm is sweet. So is Snapcaster Mage to recast Rampant Growth.
 
bangai-o said:
thanks!

also. with licids. are they able to block a stronger creature but before going to the graveyard, licid itself onto another creature?
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Yeah, after blockers are declared each player gets a chance to activate any stuff that is instant speed. You can use the licid ability at that point and it will be removed from combat but the other creature remains blocked and won't do damage to you (unless it has trample).
 
Are all cards in the Premium Deck Series packs (like Graveborn) foil, or just some of them? Specifically, I need to replace my Animate Deads (was building Reanimator, but it seems I've completely lost them over the years), so I wasn't sure if the Graveborn ones would work. I'd prefer the new border and easier text, but foil would rule it out.
 
An-Det said:
Are all cards in the Premium Deck Series packs (like Graveborn) foil, or just some of them? Specifically, I need to replace my Animate Deads (was building Reanimator, but it seems I've completely lost them over the years), so I wasn't sure if the Graveborn ones would work. I'd prefer the new border and easier text, but foil would rule it out.
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I'm 90% sure they're all foil. I know the Fire & Lightning one is all foil.
 
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