Crazymoogle
Member
I would agree. But I think it's a fair guess. A slim slate with stylus support, full N support, a 10" screen, x86 processor, Tegra? I'd be concerned, especially at the battery capacity listed. Hopefully they'll prove us wrong.
Microsoft Surface Tablet announced
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I would agree. But I think it's a fair guess. A slim slate with stylus support, full N support, a 10" screen, x86 processor, Tegra? I'd be concerned, especially at the battery capacity listed. Hopefully they'll prove us wrong.
Which are you talking about, Tegra or x86?
The Asus Transformer Prime with Tegra 3 clocked in at 9 hours on a bum sample's battery and 11 with the replacement.
Considering the Surface RT has a 20% larger battery (31 watt hours compared to 25), I'd say the battery life of the RT version should be fine.
x86 should be more interesting. Here's the Zenbook Prime's numbers running Windows 7. Looks like it gets around 4 hours of work (a little less running video, a little more running flash enabled IE, and almost 8 hours at idle). Again, the battery of the Surface Pro is about 20% larger (42 watt hour compared to 35). I'll be curious to learn the numbers when they release them or even see how the Prime runs Windows 8.
Well he is kind of right (about "4 hours of battery life is not acceptable in the tablet market in 2012/2013. "):
I'd say having less than half the battery life of just about every competitor is unacceptable (for the RT).
Seems like FUD at the moment since we know the battery size and how Tegra 3 performs.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Well he is kind of right (about "4 hours of battery life is not acceptable in the tablet market in 2012/2013. "):
I'd say having less than half the battery life of just about every competitor is unacceptable (for the RT).
We were discussing the Pro.
Syracuse022
Member
There was one where Steve Jobs had a crash on a Mac computer, but it was a short time after the famous Microsoft event where they got BSOD on stage. As a result, Apple had been mimicking the on-stage demo on a second machine, so they just switched to the second machine and carried on.
It's hard to crash a operating system that doesn't do anything.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
The keyboard detection and sketchy stylus implementation are bigger own goals IMO.
I am not positive about iPhone but I Rewatched the first two iPad events recently before the third event and it all went without a hitch all 3 unveils
Although its hard to compare, apple doesn't show off hardware till its pretty much ready to ship.
Yeah, to be honest, that was a network issue and at least the device did not crash...most people understand the difference so it did not look that bad for them.
Still curious to why they didn't prepare their own private network before the event. I'm sure they learned after that.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Are these the same people that thought "eww" when Android users started using Instagram?
I know Jobs blamed the network.
Perhaps it was, perhaps it was something else, or perhaps he was simply holding it wrong. ;-)
lunarworks
Member
In 2012 that should be punishable by lashing.
Crazymoogle
Member
x86; did they clarify if that was using Tegra as well? I think Tegra can work with x86 setups...
After watching the conference video I'm confident in stating that my next "PC" will be a Surface Pro. Though this purchase might not happen any time soon, since my laptop is working fine and I only really use it when I'm home (Don't travel much). Maybe two years down the road?
I love the attention to detail MS took with this project. The last two guys in the conference (forgot their names) were really passionate about the product. Besides the hardware gaff and Ballmer the presentation was awesome, and convince me that MS will/has change(d) Desktop PC forever with this product.
Good going MS!
I love the attention to detail MS took with this project. The last two guys in the conference (forgot their names) were really passionate about the product. Besides the hardware gaff and Ballmer the presentation was awesome, and convince me that MS will/has change(d) Desktop PC forever with this product.
Good going MS!
Marty Chinn
Member
They want to be successful like Apple and make money like Apple but that doesn't mean they want to be exactly like Apple.
I never heard that, myself.
Tegra is what powers the RT version.
Edit: lol, autocorrect
the naval gazing and hair splitting is silly. the way these conferences were handled or how it compares to Apple's pressers means fuck all to how these devices have/will sell. same goes to the constant fanboy trolls on either side mocking oppositional platforms with regurgitated talking points as if this were some seminal political moment for our generation. we're getting our proverbial panties tied and wasting time arguing over a bunch of electronic devices that will be quaint to us in a few years time.
Apple has massive mindshare and the retail footprint to literally build shit and have an expected market of shit buyers ready to purchase said shit because of brand loyalty.* Google and Microsoft don't, which will automatically make these Surface devices a harder climb. Microsoft has to follow Apple's model to compete with them, but doing so will force their litany of OEM partners to reevaluate where they fit within this new paradigm. i have doubts MS will pull this off, but they do have the moneyhat to subsidize this project as long as they can till they gain traction.
i have no qualms with upgrading my desktop to Windows 8 (same with Mountain Lion for that matter) when it's released and can see myself eventually purchasing a Surface Pro-like device to replace my MBP and iPad combo once the platform matures a bit more. regardless i'm not losing sleep and won't get emotional if it doesn't. all i care about is fair competition to drive innovation forward. that's all.
* shit meaning anything, really. i own enough Apple products and am logical enough to realize that none of their products are actual or figurative pieces of shit.
Apple has massive mindshare and the retail footprint to literally build shit and have an expected market of shit buyers ready to purchase said shit because of brand loyalty.* Google and Microsoft don't, which will automatically make these Surface devices a harder climb. Microsoft has to follow Apple's model to compete with them, but doing so will force their litany of OEM partners to reevaluate where they fit within this new paradigm. i have doubts MS will pull this off, but they do have the moneyhat to subsidize this project as long as they can till they gain traction.
i have no qualms with upgrading my desktop to Windows 8 (same with Mountain Lion for that matter) when it's released and can see myself eventually purchasing a Surface Pro-like device to replace my MBP and iPad combo once the platform matures a bit more. regardless i'm not losing sleep and won't get emotional if it doesn't. all i care about is fair competition to drive innovation forward. that's all.
* shit meaning anything, really. i own enough Apple products and am logical enough to realize that none of their products are actual or figurative pieces of shit.
This is good shit.
I think you changed the message a bit by adding that "exactly". You do have to admit, designing a touch orientated OS and API and vertically integrating hardware and software is a *bit* like Apple. But perhaps emulating Apple is unavoidable and the only way to be able to build a competitor to the iPad and still make money.
damn, i sound like an 80 year old curmudgeon with a stick up his bum. fucking 96F heat and all this blood i'm coughing out of my lungs is making me all ornery today.
thank god for Green Machine Naked Juice. it will fuck up your trackpad should any land on it, but it's good in your gullet.
thank god for Green Machine Naked Juice. it will fuck up your trackpad should any land on it, but it's good in your gullet.
Marty Chinn
Member
I'm not saying they don't learn, borrow, or even steal ideas from Apple, but saying Microsoft wants to be like Apple is almost like saying Apple wants iOS to be like Android from the stuff that they incorporated into iOS5. Microsoft most certainly is watching their competition and even learning from them, but that doesn't mean they don't have their own philosophy and message that they want to convey and a different way of doing it.
errr ... no they can't.
The Tegra series are ARM-based SoC's. They do not support x86 instructions. Tegra and other ARM SoC's are for use with Windows RT (previously known as Windows on ARM).
Totally different instruction set architectures.
Tegra = ARM
Intel Procs = x86
Unless you are going to do dynamic binary translation... which you aren't because you don't have enough extra cycles, power, etc.
I certainly expect that the base RT Surface w/cover will be in that range for sure.
Gary Whitta
Member
This week's Tested podcast with me and Norman Chan is all Microsoft, all the time! Very Surface-centric. We bussed in PC World's Loyd Case specially for the occasion.
http://www.tested.com/podcasts/44858-episode-127-_-dont-say-jobsian-_-6212012/
We had to throw this together as best we could as Will is out of town and we don't have access to the usual equipment, hopefully the audio quality is okay.
http://www.tested.com/podcasts/44858-episode-127-_-dont-say-jobsian-_-6212012/
We had to throw this together as best we could as Will is out of town and we don't have access to the usual equipment, hopefully the audio quality is okay.
You seem like good fellow, I'll give her a listen.
good stuff. haven't finished it but just wanted to point out that Loyd said Metro apps are only HTML 5, which is not true. WinRT can support JavaScript, HTML 5, C#, C++ etc...
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I'm really curious to hear your take on surface.
For me, as an Apple enthusiast, this is the first product that's made me look away from iPad...
Gary Whitta
Member
Unless I'm reading into it, I don't think that's entirely accurate.
At BUILD they were emphasizing HTML 5/CSS in order to garner broader dev support (ie. people outside of traditional .NET, etc environments) ... but they were not implying the traditional languages are now 2nd class citizens. They aren't trying to promote people to switch to HTML5 or anything.
Initially there was a lot of talk in the media that lead people to said conclusion, but it has since been corrected. MS - as always the master of marketing and expressing visions.
IS MS planning on making a Metro file browser? I know right now that RT kicks you the desktop if you want to manipulate files. One of the things I really want on a tablet is an easy way to organize files and copy them through USB to sticks/hdd's. It's one thing that iPad is sorely lacking, I use dropbox to get stuff to it, but I hate the fact there isn't a centralized file browser.
Jake Tower
Banned
I think I'm in your boat.
i don't think so, there is a file picker contract though. So a app can use that picker to let you select a file. But i doubt they will have some kind of explorer.
They might use the skydrive app to do it.... I read somewhere that's how you will be able to manage files on wp8 with the new microsd support. If it happens I would think it would be done in the same way.
Or they could just further enhance the file picker app to support basic file management (since it can access your network drives).... with the contract feature it actually could be pretty powerful by leveraging things like the skydrive app (but open up more things for it like local file management).
Okay so here we go.
Anand has an intel ultra book protyope model that he tested.
It came with a i7 3427U which is a 2/4 1.8ghz/2.8/2.6 with an hd 4000 , 4GB ddr 3 1600 , 13.3 1600x900 with a 240 gig ssd.
This has a 6 cell 47wh battery a bit higher than the 42 Wh of the surface pro
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5872/intel-dual-core-ivy-bridge-launch-and-ultrabook-review/6
Idle = 525mins = 8 and a half hours
IE8 with flash ads = 466mins = 8 hours
720p x264 using MPC-HC = 293 minutes = 6 hours
THis isn't a bad showing at all. Basicly anywhere from 6-8 hours depending on usage. MS has done other things to get power down and it will be using an intel cpu that isn't avalible for quite a few months so intel may be doing some things to bring power usage down.
Don't forget this is also using windows 7 for these tests , windows 8 is supposed to increase battery life
The 1.8ghz seems like a good spot for it to end up and gaming performance was not bad.
I'd perfer 8 hours of video bu i'd be able to make due with 6 hours. If the battery is removeable then i'm fine with6 hours. Carrying a second battery for longer trips isn't a worry
Anand has an intel ultra book protyope model that he tested.
It came with a i7 3427U which is a 2/4 1.8ghz/2.8/2.6 with an hd 4000 , 4GB ddr 3 1600 , 13.3 1600x900 with a 240 gig ssd.
This has a 6 cell 47wh battery a bit higher than the 42 Wh of the surface pro
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5872/intel-dual-core-ivy-bridge-launch-and-ultrabook-review/6
Idle = 525mins = 8 and a half hours
IE8 with flash ads = 466mins = 8 hours
720p x264 using MPC-HC = 293 minutes = 6 hours
THis isn't a bad showing at all. Basicly anywhere from 6-8 hours depending on usage. MS has done other things to get power down and it will be using an intel cpu that isn't avalible for quite a few months so intel may be doing some things to bring power usage down.
Don't forget this is also using windows 7 for these tests , windows 8 is supposed to increase battery life
The 1.8ghz seems like a good spot for it to end up and gaming performance was not bad.
I'd perfer 8 hours of video bu i'd be able to make due with 6 hours. If the battery is removeable then i'm fine with6 hours. Carrying a second battery for longer trips isn't a worry
I believe you could see torx screws. Not sure if this would allow for removing a battery, but maybe.
Haven't seen info.
The back looks pretty clean, so either it's located underneath the kickstand ... or you simply remove the back. It has visibly exposed Torx screws.
i dunno , haven't seen under its skirt... er kickstand
It might be removable . I dunno
If it can take a charge through usb then I'd be fine. I have a 7,600 mah battery that i could hook up to it .
In what time zone does 293 minutes = 6 hours? It's not even 5 hours!
Ipad 2 with the 32nm SOC gets 15.7 hours of video with half the battery capacity, so it's about 6 times more efficient than IVB for video:
Other than the math error, get this shit out of here.In what time zone does 293 minutes = 6 hours? It's not even 5 hours!
Ipad 2 with the 32nm SOC gets 15.7 hours of video with half the battery capacity, so it's about 6 times more efficient than IVB:
Why are you comparing an x64 to iPad? It should be compared to other ultrabooks/mac air.
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