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[ZiZ]

THAT'S NOT WHAT THE CENSUS SAYS :'( I've been filling out applications wrong this entire time!

that's because Jesus was middle eastern, and they can't have Jesus checking anything other than caucasian on his census when he comes back.

 

[Red_Ragnarok]

Discrimination based on smarts and or athletic abilities? Really? What am I reading.

If you are an ugly stupid person with no charisma or talents, your life will be harder than average. Why isn't something being done about this?

 

[Roger Danish]

You are treated well, but will you ever be considered Japanese and not foreigner? He said that the problem is that Asians in America are viewed as outsiders.

It seems to me that in every society the majority can be considered “privileged”. What’s the point of making a campaign to say that this is unfair? Why not make other campaigns against people who are really intelligent or good looking or athletic.

One guy in the video says “our silence keeps it in place”. What do they want, to give white people a handicap because they’re the majority?

More likely, I think they want to combat specifically this type of ignorance.

If you are an ugly stupid person with no charisma or talents, your life will be harder than average. Why isn't something being done about this?

Would you react so defensively if a PSA were made highlighting this phenomenon? Probably not. Drop the red herrings, dude.

 

[Slavik81]

The only reason this ad is even seen as incendiary (by some) is because white people have been taught that any talk of "race" or "racial disparity" is strictly taboo (or, in itself "racist").

It isn't racist, or even wrong. But one thing that I think is not made clear is that their conception of privilege does not mean any sort of overall advantage. Without that clarity, it sounds like they are making massive, unfounded generalizations about groups of people based on nothing more than their race, which is just a single factor of a person's life. They may be well intentioned, but I don't think their message is clear.

The only solution, ultimately, is treating people like individuals, and acknowledging that within any group that there are massive differences between it's members. Overall trends may exist, and gereralizations can be made, but there's a limit to how much you can assume about an individual based on their membership of a racial group. Any campaign that seems to assert otherwise is problematic.

This campaign might be seen to do that. I don't think that was their intent, but that's what people heard.

 

[Devolution]

It isn't racist, or even wrong. But one thing that I think is not made clear is that their conception of privilege does not mean any sort of overall advantage. Without that clarity, it sounds like they are making massive, unfounded generalizations about groups of people based on nothing more than their race, which is just a single factor of a person's life. They may be well intentioned, but I don't think their message is clear.

The only solution, ultimately, is treating people like individuals, and acknowledging that within any group that there are massive differences between it's members. Overall trends may exist, and gereralizations can be made, but there's a limit to how much you can assume about an individual based on their membership of a racial group. Any campaign that seems to assert otherwise is problematic.

There are no assumptions being made. As a white person I don't get followed around stores, I don't get my transfer double checked, I'm always assumed to be a paying customer, I'm given the benefit of the doubt, etc. Then there is the institutionalized racism which means black people will be overlooked despite their qualifications for a job, more likely to be incarcerated for the same crime as a white person and are highly likely to be convicted of a crime they had nothing to do with.

There is a clear advantage in life to being white and those who would deny it are being willfully ignorant.

 

[Roger Danish]

It isn't racist, or even wrong. But one thing that I think is not made clear is that their conception of privilege does not mean any sort of overall advantage. Without that clarity, it sounds like they are making massive, unfounded generalizations about groups of people based on nothing more than their race, which is just a single factor of a person's life. They may be well intentioned, but I don't think their message is clear.

The only solution, ultimately, is treating people like individuals, and acknowledging that within any group that there are massive differences between it's members. Overall trends may exist, and gereralizations can be made, but there's a limit to how much you can assume about an individual based on their membership of a racial group. Any campaign that seems to assert otherwise is problematic.

This campaign might be seen to do that. I don't think that was their intent, but that's what people heard.

Which brings us back to the same problem: there is unfortunately little room for nuance in widespread public education campaigns like this one, because people simply aren't willing to sit through a well-reasoned, empirically-supported argument about white privilege.

I agree that maybe some people were turned off by the video who otherwise might be receptive, but most people would get angry either way. Reactionaries gon' react.

 

[Devolution]

Which brings us back to the same problem: there is unfortunately little room for nuance in widespread public education campaigns like this one, because people simply aren't willing to sit through a well-reasoned, empirically-supported argument about white privilege.

I agree that maybe some people were turned off by the video who otherwise might be receptive, but reactionaries gon' react.

Eh at least provocative stuff gets the discussion going. How many people just ignore straight up statistics and generally unemotional appeals because it's "boring."

 

[Roger Danish]

Eh at least provocative stuff gets the discussion going. How many people just ignore straight up statistics and generally unemotional appeals because it's "boring."

Exactly. I can recite stats till my face turns blue about how the infant mortality rate among blacks is double that among whites or how black males born in 2009 have a life expectancy five years shorter than white males or how poverty rates among blacks and Hispanics are nearly triple that among whites, but how many people will actually click on any of those links?

 

[Red_Ragnarok]

More likely, I think they want to combat specifically this type of ignorance.



Would you react so defensively if a PSA were made highlighting this phenomenon? Probably not. Drop the red herrings, dude.

I wouldn’t react defensively because that type of PSA announcement wouldn’t target me specifically while ignoring other people who are in the same position as me. The PSA announcement in the original post talks about whites being privileged in a country that is majority white, but I can’t see how that’s any different from other examples like Japanese people in their Japanese majority society, or any other group of people in their societies.

However, I would react defensively if someone comes up to a group of people that are equal to me in terms of intelligence/looks/etc , but starts singling me out and saying that my life has been easy for me and that it is unfair.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

I wouldn’t react defensively because that type of PSA announcement wouldn’t target me specifically while ignoring other people who are in the same position as me. The PSA announcement in the original post talks about whites being privileged in a country that is majority white, but I can’t see how that’s any different from other examples like Japanese people in their Japanese majority society, or any other group of people in their societies.

However, I would react defensively if someone comes up to a group of people that are equal to me in terms of intelligence/looks/etc , but starts singling me out and saying that my life has been easy for me and that it is unfair.

.....Really?

 

[speedline]

Being the majority is a privilege, just so happens Whites are the majority in America. If Blacks, Asians, or Latinos were the majority, they would have a privilege-- neither side is more or less moral than the other. Make no mistake, most people are naturally biased towards their own race and whatever group is the majority will have some sort of advantage because of it.

 

[Roger Danish]

Being the majority is a privilege, just so happens Whites are the majority in America. If Blacks, Asians, or Latinos were the majority, they would have a privilege-- neither side is more or less moral than the other. Make no mistake, most people are naturally biased towards their own race and whatever group is the majority will have some sort of advantage because of it.

So, uhh, you just, like, missed Apartheid and all that, huh?

 

[soul creator]

come on guys, Obama is president. So all your fancy stats and figures and sociological chicanery doodads don't mean anything, and I'm gonna ignore them in favor of my anecdotal experiences.

Then after I ignore it, if you make an ad that is even remotely angry about people ignoring it, I'm gonna complain about how I need to see fancy stats and figures and sociological chicanery doodads before I take you seriously.

am I doing this right?

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

Being the majority is a privilege, just so happens Whites are the majority in America. If Blacks, Asians, or Latinos were the majority, they would have a privilege-- neither side is more or less moral than the other. Make no mistake, most people are naturally biased towards their own race and whatever group is the majority will have some sort of advantage because of it.

Guess that's why women have all the power in America...oh wai..

 

[speedline]

So, uhh, you just, like, missed Apartheid and all that, huh?

You don't think most people are naturally biased toward their own race?

 

[Devolution]

come on guys, Obama is president. So all your fancy stats and figures and sociological chicanery doodads don't mean anything, and I'm gonna ignore them in favor of my anecdotal experiences.

Then after I ignore it, if you make an ad that is even remotely angry about people ignoring it, I'm gonna complain about how I need to see fancy stats and figures and sociological chicanery doodads before I take you seriously.

am I doing this right?

That is a neat little circle yes.

Guess that's why women have all the power in America...oh wai..

lol

 

[speedline]

Guess that's why women have all the power in America...oh wai..

Women are a race now?

 

[ZoddGutts]

Obama hasn't fix shit. Damn socialist.

 

[faceless007]

You don't think most people are naturally biased toward their own race?

Of course they are. That's the problem.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

Women are a race now?

They're the majority in America and suffer from being a minority. Outnumbering people isn't the only factor at play, far from it.

White women still suffer discrimination despite being at many racial advantages, straight white men have an unfair advantage in America.

Saying they're at an advantage because they're a majority ignores so much.

 

[Devolution]

Women are a race now?

His point that you seemed to miss is that a majority doesn't mean shit if the system is stacked against a group. You do know that slaves outnumbered whites in the south right?

 

[Roger Danish]

come on guys, Obama is president. So all your fancy stats and figures and sociological chicanery doodads don't mean anything, and I'm gonna ignore them in favor of my anecdotal experiences.

Then after I ignore it, if you make an ad that is even remotely angry about people ignoring it, I'm gonna complain about how I need to see fancy stats and figures and sociological chicanery doodads before I take you seriously.

am I doing this right?

Eh, you need a couple more anecdotes about how hard your life was growing up and how that totally invalidates all other arguments.

 

[speedline]

Of course they are. That's the problem.

Never said it wasn't, just saying everyone is, not just the White population. If roles were reversed, you would see discrimination from whomever is in the majority. There is no moral difference between us, humans are equally flawed is my point.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

His point that you seemed to miss is that a majority doesn't mean shit if the system is stacked against a group. You do know that slaves outnumbered whites in the south right?

+1

 

[Devolution]

Never said it wasn't, just saying everyone is, not just the White population. If roles were reversed, you would see discrimination from whomever is in the majority. There is no moral difference between us, humans are equally flawed is my point.

So in other words you have nothing to add to the discussion other than "it's biological." Okay thanks for contributing nothing that manages to offer insight into how to combat fear of the other which we already know is an issue that leads to legislation and hierarchies that negatively affect other groups.

 

[Roger Danish]

Never said it wasn't, just saying everyone is, not just the White population. If roles were reversed, you would see discrimination from whomever is in the majority. There is no moral difference between us, humans are equally flawed is my point.

Jesus, it's not about asserting moral superiority or assigning blame. Watch the Tim Wise video I posted earlier.

Spoiler

I swear, it's under three minutes long!

 

[Alligatorjandro]

How would you go about stopping it from being a privlege?

 

[Davidion]

Never said it wasn't, just saying everyone is, not just the White population. If roles were reversed, you would see discrimination from whomever is in the majority. There is no moral difference between us, humans are equally flawed is my point.

And why shouldn't the shortcoming arising from those flaws be challenged?

You're assuming that if it's another group in power, people wouldn't or shouldn't challenge inequalities that arise from that power structure.

 

[Slavik81]

There are no assumptions being made. As a white person I don't get followed around stores, I don't get my transfer double checked, I'm always assumed to be a paying customer, I'm given the benefit of the doubt, etc. Then there is the institutionalized racism which means black people will be overlooked despite their qualifications for a job, more likely to be incarcerated for the same crime as a white person and are highly likely to be convicted of a crime they had nothing to do with.

There is a clear advantage in life to being white and those who would deny it are being willfully ignorant.

Where do you think we disagree? I don't see any contradictions between your post and mine.

 

[Devolution]

How would you go about stopping it from being a privlege?

Well first you'd have to get people to admit there is privilege in the first place which as you can see is a task in and of itself.

 

[speedline]

His point that you seemed to miss is that a majority doesn't mean shit if the system is stacked against a group. You do know that slaves outnumbered whites in the south right?

I am assuming when we talk about the majority, we are talking about the group of people who have the most political control, the ones who make the rules that we all follow to an extent. The number of slaves and whites doesn't matter when speaking about who control the population. I was assuming GAF was talking about the lawmakers when speaking about the majority, not the pure numbers necessarily.

 

[Devolution]

I am assuming when we talk about the majority, we are talking about the group of people who have the most political control, the ones who make the rules that we all follow to an extent. The number of slaves and whites doesn't matter when speaking about who control the population. I was assuming GAF was talking about the lawmakers when speaking about the majority, not the pure numbers necessarily.

So even then what's your point. We all know that a majority wants to consolidate power. Who are you even talking to?

 

[PBalfredo]

"White people are privileged and .... <blank>"

And what? Judging by peoples reactions, many are assuming "and they should feel bad", or even "and they should have it taken away". But that's not really the goal of this, right? No one wants people to feel guilty or to tear white people down in the name of equality. What we really want to build up minorities so they aren't starting life with such a shitty hand. So why isn't that part of the message?

I'm sure people want to spread awareness of the situation. But awareness to what end, exactly? All it does is try to create awareness of what the problem is. But no were is even the seed of an idea of how to fix the problem. Instead the assumptions listed above fill in the missing space. Even if I accept white privilege, I wouldn't know what to do except shrug and say "that sucks, bro"

1. "Being white is a privilege!"
2. ???
3. Profit! Racism is over!

 

[gutter_trash]

more and more white families are falling below the poverty line with foreclosed homes, unemployment on the rise and broken families.

bringing up a PSA like this during shitty economic times just alienates poor whites even more into a useless war of race that is unnecessary under today's climate


Politically, low income people normally should vote for their best interest socio-economically but this PSA actually feeds the populist conservatives in the Republican party to skewed perceptions of "poor whites being forgotten) and gives ammunition to vote conservative (even if it is against their interest)

 

[speedline]

And why shouldn't the shortcoming arising from those flaws be challenged?

You're assuming that if it's another group in power, people wouldn't or shouldn't challenge inequalities that arise from that power structure.

Yes, they should, everyone should and would. My point is that being White isn't the main factor here, being the controlling majority is. Even with that said, these this PSA is titled "being White is a privilege" when in fact it should be titled "being the Majority is a privilege". If you can't see the racism in singling out only Whites when talking about these moral issues, then I don't know what else to say. The White population is no less moral than any other under the same circumstances.

 

[gutter_trash]

Yes, they should, everyone should and would. My point is that being White isn't the main factor here, being the controlling majority is. Even with that said, these this PSA is titled "being White is a privilege" when in fact it should be titled "being the Majority is a privilege". If you can't see the racism in singling out only Whites when talking about these moral issues, then I don't know what else to say. The White population is no less moral than any other under the same circumstances.

tell that too low income white families, you are helping Republicans win

 

[Roger Danish]

"White people are privileged and .... <blank>"

And what? Judging by peoples reactions, many are assuming "and they should feel bad", or even "and they should have it taken away". But that's not really the goal of this, right? No one wants people to feel guilty or to tear white people down in the name of equality. What we really want to build up minorities so they aren't starting life with such a shitty hand. So why isn't that part of the message?

I'm sure people want to spread awareness of the situation. But awareness to what end, exactly? All it does is try to create awareness of what the problem is. But no were is even the seed of an idea of how to fix the problem. Instead the assumptions listed above fill in the missing space. Even if I accept white privilege, I wouldn't know what to do except shrug and say "that sucks, bro"

1. "Being white is a privilege!"
2. ???
3. Profit! Racism is over!

The problem is that so many people choose to willfully ignore that there is a problem. This thread and the comments on that YouTube video are evidence of that. Forget Step 2, the first step is proving to be a major mental stumbling block for many whites.

 

[zoku88]

Yes, they should, everyone should and would. My point is that being White isn't the main factor here, being the controlling majority is. Even with that said, these this PSA is titled "being White is a privilege" when in fact it should be titled "being the Majority is a privilege". If you can't see the racism in singling out only Whites when talking about these moral issues, then I don't know what else to say. The White population is no less moral than any other under the same circumstances.

But in the US, being the majority (in terms of power) and being White is the same thing!

It's not racism to single out whites because it's a privilege that only whites in the US have.

Perhaps if this ad weren't talking about the US, but about the world in general you would have the point. But, gosh, it's in Minnesota. And, as previously stated, the target audience of this ad are white people who don't know the privileges they have. If you say 'majority' (in terms of power), that can mean anything (ie, could mean class, for example. This ad is clearly focused on race.)

 

[Roger Danish]

Yes, they should, everyone should and would. My point is that being White isn't the main factor here, being the controlling majority is. Even with that said, these this PSA is titled "being White is a privilege" when in fact it should be titled "being the Majority is a privilege". If you can't see the racism in singling out only Whites when talking about these moral issues, then I don't know what else to say. The White population is no less moral than any other under the same circumstances.

This is... I'm... wow.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

What are white people's thoughts on having a privilege?

 

[cutmeamango]

What are white people's thoughts on having a privilege?

I'm lucky my parents ended up white even having mixtures I guess. My brother is brown skinned, tough luck.

 

[Riggs]

What are white people's thoughts on having a privilege?

Hey I am white!

I am broke, my parents work very hard and they cannot even get by. Our house in process of being foreclosed on. Things are hard right now financially, our business is not doing well. Me and my dad run it, my mom works her own job.

Cops don't pull me over for no reason. So that's nice

All balances out I guess?

So I am privileged that I do not have to deal with racist people, and cops don't pull me over for no reason. I really think that's about it, but that's better then nothing I guess.

I don't honestly feel privileged I feel like a poor person who cant' get by on an honest days work. But again I don't have anyone fucking with me for the way I look, so I guess I am privileged? I really don't know what to think.

 

[Kisaya]

that's because Jesus was middle eastern, and they can't have Jesus checking anything other than caucasian on his census when he comes back.

Hopefully they won't confuse him for a terrorist :l

 

[PBalfredo]

What are white people's thoughts on having a privilege?

Seeing how privilege is being defined in this context as being treated fairly and having a fair shake at life, it's something I would wish everyone to have.

 

[Pollux]

What are white people's thoughts on having a privilege?

Until this thread I didn't even realize all these things were something called "white privilege". Now that I'm thinking about it, it definitely exists. I don't know what I can do about it except for treat people as individuals and try and give them the benefit of the doubt. I know I've been guilty of some of these things in the past, like giving a second glance to black guy in the smoothie place I was working at when he was just standing around the merchandise area of the store. In the end he was just waiting his friend to get a smoothie. It definitely exists.

I think the best way to try and "combat" this type of thing is to generally just raise awareness about the issue. The more people realize that what they're doing is wrong and the more they can be aware that they need to change their behavior, the more likely that behavior will change.

Look at the threads we have on GAF about issues of rape. There have been people who had no idea what they were doing at a club might be seen as some type of harassment...or that rape isn't always this thing where the guy jumps out of the bushes and drags the woman/man kicking and screaming into the shadows and violates them...it's a much more complex issue that people need to be educated on. I think the idea of white privilege is the same in the sense that as people are educated about it, it will hopefully decrease.

Then again, maybe I'm just completely off base. That's always a possibility.

 

[PBalfredo]

The problem is that so many people choose to willfully ignore that there is a problem. This thread and the comments on that YouTube video are evidence of that. Forget Step 2, the first step is proving to be a major mental stumbling block for many whites.

Then we need a better PSA.

Which is really the problem. White people have it too good? Or minorities have it too bad? The PSA thinks arguing the former is the same as advocating awareness of the later. It's not.

 

[remnant]

Eh at least provocative stuff gets the discussion going. How many people just ignore straight up statistics and generally unemotional appeals because it's "boring."

What discussion has this thread put forward? That personal life experience is secondary to buzzwords?

This is one of those bullshit "let's talk about race" in a certain, specific manner that ignores certain realities. It's bullshit and worthless.

 

[Devolution]

Then we need a better PSA.

Which is really the problem. White people have it too good? Or minorities have it too bad? The PSA thinks arguing the former is the same as advocating awareness of the later. It's not.

Personally I'd show a white person going about their day, like I do. Then I'd show a minority doing the same. Like say a white person goes to walgreens to shop. Show the employees in the store just staying at the register. Then show a minority, suddenly the same people who watched the white person shop are following that person around the store.

You could do this with all kinds of things really and it'd be more a compare/contrast. That's how I learned about it first hand. I'd do whatever I pleased but I'd notice my friends getting a raw deal.

 

[hypernima]

Until this thread I didn't even realize all these things were something called "white privilege". Now that I'm thinking about it, it definitely exists. I don't know what I can do about it except for treat people as individuals and try and give them the benefit of the doubt.
I think the best way to try and "combat" this type of thing is to generally just raise awareness about the issue. The more people realize that what they're doing is wrong and the more they can be aware that they need to change their behavior, the more likely that behavior will change.

You're on the right path, to acknowledge it.
Now if you can spread your enlightenment.
Some people I've met in life are just oblivious to it, this girl used to enrage me when she insinuated I had "privilege" because they'd give me more money for school for being black.

 

[Riggs]

Personally I'd show a white person going about their day, like I do. Then I'd show a minority doing the same. Like say a white person goes to walgreens to shop. Show the employees in the store just staying at the register. Then show a minority, suddenly the same people who watched the white person shop are following that person around the store.

You could do this with all kinds of things really and it'd be more a compare/contrast. That's how I learned about it first hand. I'd do whatever I pleased but I'd notice my friends getting a raw deal.

Also I've known some very very poor white folks, especially in high school where I was at the time in Florida. White people got no breaks there, no one did. Cops fucked with everyone. But that could of just been the area itself. It's not like all white people are middle class, I know you are not saying that. It feels like some people think that's how it is. Over all whites have it better I agree, but there's a shit load who don't.