Manga Discussion/News Thread |OT5| We Post on Wednesdays

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Kubo isn't even close to being the best artist. He's mid-tier at best in Jump.

Kishimoto at his height (pre-timeskip) shit on him all day.
 
lol @ Big One

A 14 year old could draw Bleach? Really?


I don't like Bleach at all, but the art works pretty solid.


I'm not a huge fan of the art because of certain choices made
(like lack of focus on backgrounds and scenery) but that's completely different from claiming
the art is flat out bad.

Out of all the things you could hate about Bleach, you pick on it because of artistic quality? That makes no lick of sense to me.
 
Dresden said:
Kubo isn't even close to being the best artist. He's mid-tier at best in Jump.

Kishimoto at his height (pre-timeskip) shit on him all day.
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Even post Kishi shits on him, Kishi can actually draw very well if he tries. I haven't really seen anything truly amazing from Kubo that made me respect him as an artist in some form or another.


Neoriceisgood said:
lol @ Big One

A 14 year old could draw Bleach? Really?


I don't like Bleach at all, but the art works pretty solid.


I'm not a huge fan of the art because of certain choices made
(like lack of focus on backgrounds and scenery) but that's completely different from claiming
the art is flat out bad.

Out of all the things you could hate about Bleach, you pick on it because of artistic quality? That makes no lick of sense to me.
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Yes, I criticize Bleach's art. Proportions are handled terribly, characters look like rejected designs from Kingdom Hearts, and pretty much every panel is designed specifically to make characters look cool. And it isn't that these panels are legitimately cool necessarily, they're just stock. Kubo draws the exact same panel like every chapter and places them on different pages each time. He's almost Greg Land-esque in that respect cause both like to reuse stock positions and forms for a lot of their work (fortunately Kubo isn't a tracer as far as I'm concerned). It just gets tiring to see.
 
All Kubo can do is design good clothes.

I don't know how you can call someone who uses the same three faces over and over a good artist.
 
Big three art wars. Things never change.


I find Kishimoto to be the best from a technical point of view. But ever since he switched to the anime style the art has suffered. Oda is clearly the most original of the three. Kubo has some nice designs but his style is pretty flat overall and doesn't rally appeal to me.
 
I think Oda's designs (assuming male) have a lot of flair to them, and he's a good artist, but his composition suffers a lot sometimes.

Kishimoto was really good when the Otomo influences were a lot clearer. I stopped reading Naruto early on into shippuden so I don't know how it's turned out, but the art got plainer and he stopped playing around with perspectives as much--he got lazier, in other words, or there was a change in assistants.

I don't want to shit on Kubo because he can do some cool shit now and then, but he's just not up there with the other two of the big3. I think a lot of his art is kinda boring. He can do some fabulous spreads and the covers are mostly rad.
 
Big One said:
Yes, I criticize Bleach's art. Proportions are handled terribly, characters look like rejected designs from Kingdom Hearts, and pretty much every panel is designed specifically to make characters look cool. And it isn't that these panels are legitimately cool necessarily, they're just stock. Kubo draws the exact same panel like every chapter and places them on different pages each time. He's almost Greg Land-esque in that respect cause both like to reuse stock positions and forms for a lot of their work (fortunately Kubo isn't a tracer as far as I'm concerned). It just gets tiring to see.
Click to expand...


It's fine it criticize it, heck some of the stuff you just said is legit.

I just don't get why you find it necessary to push unnecessary hyperbole like saying a 14 year old could draw it. People already have a hard time taking you seriously.


Anyway, aren't most of the choices you're talking about more criticisms in terms of design and stylistic choices rather than anything related to the actual quality of his art?

I agree Bleach chapters sometimes read more like a fancy calender than actual stories with strong variation in scenes and setting. But it's pretty clear to me this relates more to Bleach "trying too hard to be cool" than Kubo actually being unable to produce other (more interesting) stuff.




I don't know how you can call someone who uses the same three faces over and over a good artist.
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Kubo could draw unique faces just fine if he had even an inch of interest in it.

His art is good. His choices aren't.



I don't want to shit on Kubo because he can do some cool shit now and then, but he's just not up there with the other two of the big3. I think a lot of his art is kinda boring. He can do some fabulous spreads and the covers are mostly rad.
Click to expand...

I think Kubo has incredible potential, but 0% desire to use it.

To him a good page consists of one huge black getsuga tenshou spread across the page, more so than an interesting or elaborate looking new location.



/edit

To the Kubo/Bleach fans in this thread I actually have a request: do any of you have any examples of interesting or original non-Bleach art Kubo has done? I'm pretty sure he could draw something interesting if he tried
so I wonder if he's done so at any point.
 
Art is so subjective (outside of the viewpoint of originality) that I don't care about anyone's opinions. You're all right in your own little heads.

Some people hate Oda's art. It's original as fuck though and after you get used to it, it has a certain charm that is unlike most things.

Kishimoto's prime art was great. But now it's bland, boring, and unoriginal (he took q's from how the anime did it). When he dedicates time to a panel, though, it can look really great! Though I don't know if it's the effect of the eyes singling out that great panel against all the other ones.

It's no surprise that I'm a fan of Kubo's aesthetics in his art style. It's minimal, and I love minimal in pretty much everything, not just art or manga. The backgrounds (or lack thereof) are a problem, but I don't even miss them anymore. His character art is incredible though, and the way he draws characters I'm a big fan of. Not to mention it's consistent.
 
Well if we doing a big three art war again here we go .

I have to say back in day Kishimoto had the best mix IMO.
Now his art work does not look as good as before .

Oda has gotten much better over the years for certain things but somethings suffer for it .
For eg his women now look the same when the are good looking .

Kubo not much change and i find his art to be the most boring of the 3 .
It looks more like art book than a manga .
 
Glass Rebel said:
now you just want to get in a fight
Click to expand...

TLNF9.jpg
 
Back to art wars i see.


Kishi: Had the best balance out of the 3 but now its not for some reason

Oda: craziest of the 3 that is an acquired taste but his women recently seems to move from 2 sides of the spectrum lately. Has some great background art

Kubo: I dig his characters though they eventually look the same and the best parts are the clothes(i've said a few times he should just drop this and go into clothing design). He hardly has anything regarding backgrounds but he's a fan of the huge melons so i can't hate him at all :)



Dresden said:
Fairy Tail has better boobs than any of them
Click to expand...

NO!!!!!


frequency of showing them i will give it to FT
 
Kreed said:
One Piece
CP9, Super Novas, Blackbeard prior to becoming an Emperor, Magellan, etc... =/= Villains of the arc without any connection to the overall story.
Click to expand...
All of those villain were still part of the 3 major superpowers in OP expect the Super Novas.
The Super Novas are just like most groups some will help luffy some will fight him so i don't see all of them as villains just yet .
How can you say BB had no connection to the overall story when he cause the war in the first place.

Kreed said:
One Piece:Aokiji's involvement was still WAY more limited in comparison to what's been going on since Thriller Bark and beyond. The best comparison in terms of involvement right now would be how Punk Hazard got created originally from Aokiji and Akainu's fight. Compare that to the 5+ story connections to the 3 big groups we are dealing with in this arc. Meanwhile what did Water 7 introduce? CP9, new marines, Franky and the Water 7 crew...characters that stood out on their own. Lucci didn't need to be Jinbei's underling or Akainu's second in command to be a bad ass.
Click to expand...

No Lucci was a bad ass cause he was part of a elite marine force and was the strongest in the history of CP9.
That arc also had more characters than PH .

Kreed said:
And you're still not reading what I'm saying. I didn't say Oda can't/shouldn't use the characters at all or even most of the time. I'm saying that if Oda gives us 2 arcs straight of Shichibukai/Emperor/Admiral based stories, that for the 3rd arc, it would be cool if he just threw in a random location with Giants or Ninjas or Elf Island or whatever with nothing to do with any of the three groups mentioned. THEN he can go back to status quo again to make all the Shichibukai/Emperor/Admiral fans happy. A very simple request that shows the man still knows how to properly build up new characters.

Just because you can't imagine this in the world Oda has created doesn't mean it's not possible for Oda to do, especially when he did it before! So don't give me story reasons as to why Oda can't be creative with his villains and characters when he used to do it for years. Hell wasn't Punk Hazard supposed to be an island completely off the grid/unreachable, with the Straw Hats getting to the island by chance? That right there would explain a lack of Admiral/Emperor/Shichibukai involvement and would have given Oda the perfect chance to show off some new villains and build them up properly as bad guys, but nope, he goes back to the safety net anyway.
Click to expand...

Your saying Oda made arcs that had nothing to do with 3 Main super power when in fact there has only been 1 major arc since they enter the grand line that had nothing to do with them
At this stage of the story it make no sense for Oda to have the first arc in the NW with no connection to 3 great powers of the OP world.
Now i am not saying we can't get a arc like Skypiea but i am saying it is to soon after the time skip , with the SH growing stronger they are going the are run into the power houses or people in connection to them more often .
The first half was the warlords and marines the second half going to be the Emperors and the top player of the marines along with others than connect to the over all storyline .
With maybe 2 or 3 big arcs and 1 or 2 smaller arcs that has nothing to do with them just like the first half of the grand line.
 
Big One said:
Okay. Doesn't have to do with anything remotely related to the post your responding to, but if it makes you feel better to spout unrelated dribble in these discussions then go ahead. I'm still 100% right on this that I have absolutely every right to share an opposing opinion on any board whatsoever, no matter how much you think that's "trolling." Not to mention that to even call it trolling is ludicrous since you might as well be calling every other poster here a troll since my opinion is shared by many who post in this thread.
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Actually, I don't really care about your problem with Kubo's art; I was more commenting on the fact that your criticism of Kishimoto and Tite Kubo (Ed. ---> "Yeah it's called storytelling, a talent Kishimoto and Kubo do not possess.") was again, entirely unprompted by anything other the random desire to start re-tread arguments and declare yourself "100% right" about everything. Again. You do this every week - it's just drive-by posting designed to start an argument.

It's rather ironic you just mentioned the fact that it's a "discussion" board, when you don't actually discuss anything with anyone. You just make overly negative declarations, tell everyone else they're stupid/wrong for varying reasons (usually being that their opinions don't jive with your own) and just generally don't get along with anyone. This is the crux of why nobody ever talks to you any more.

Edit: Sorry MangaGAF. Wednesday Wars =(
 
udcOS.jpg


Oh and btw: I don't share Kreed's criticism either. I don't like to look at a story and think to myself "why didn't he do that?" but "is the thing he did good?". I can see why someone would miss the more or less random arcs but I think it was necessary to see what actually happened during the 2 years the Strawhats were away and reintroducing Doflamingo as an actual player in the OP world was something Oda desperately needed to do and I don't really mind whether it's sooner or later.
 
Neoriceisgood said:
It's fine it criticize it, heck some of the stuff you just said is legit.

I just don't get why you find it necessary to push unnecessary hyperbole like saying a 14 year old could draw it. People already have a hard time taking you seriously.


Anyway, aren't most of the choices you're talking about more criticisms in terms of design and stylistic choices rather than anything related to the actual quality of his art?

I agree Bleach chapters sometimes read more like a fancy calender than actual stories with strong variation in scenes and setting. But it's pretty clear to me this relates more to Bleach "trying too hard to be cool" than Kubo actually being unable to produce other (more interesting) stuff.
Click to expand...
Neoriceisgood said:
Kubo could draw unique faces just fine if he had even an inch of interest in it.

His art is good. His choices aren't.
Click to expand...
Neoriceisgood said:
I think Kubo has incredible potential, but 0% desire to use it.

To him a good page consists of one huge black getsuga tenshou spread across the page, more so than an interesting or elaborate looking new location.
Click to expand...
Okay well I'll say this in response: As it stands, Kubo has not once really proved himself to make some pretty damn good art like Oda and Kishimoto have. Saying he has the potential to isn't much of an argument cause there really isn't any signs there to begin with. Kishimoto for example draws bland as fuck but then you get random awesome shit scattered throughout the Naruto manga, and he's also drawn outside of Naruto showing he has actual talent as an artist. It verifies that Kishimoto really is a pretty damn good artist, but with Kubo all we got to weigh his ability on is Bleach and I guess Zombie Powder (which isn't any different).

You just really can't claim Kubo has the talent to do this and that without anything to really back it up. Kubo has to prove himself pretty damn good in my book after years of awful art and/or a lack of art.
Angry Grimace said:
Actually, I don't really care about your problem with Kubo's art; I was more commenting on the fact that your criticism of Kishimoto and Tite Kubo was again, largely unprompted by anything other the random desire to start re-tread arguments and declare yourself "100% right" about everything.
Click to expand...
Umm no I have never claimed I'm 100% right on any of my opinions, ever. The only reason anyone would think this if they were reading my posts wrong or taking them out of context.

I AM however 100% correct that this is a forum, and a forum is a place of opinions and discussion. That's just a fact, and if you can't handle that you shouldn't be here.

Angry Grimace said:
Again. You do this every week - it's just drive-by posting designed to start an argument.
Click to expand...
No, sorry. That's never ever my intention. If people get mad about my posts that's their problem. I'm only here to share my opinion amongst others, if they get mad at me for saying that their opinion doesn't quite work then tough luck. A part of discussion is improving your stance by rounding it out amongst other people's stances. If someone says, "Hey, I find a flaw in your reasoning here..." you don't go, "LOLOLOL TROLL GTFO" nope you round out everything by making your reasoning more logical and sound.

Angry Grimace said:
It's rather ironic you just mentioned the fact that it's a "discussion" board, when you don't actually discuss anything with anyone. You just make overly negative declarations, tell everyone else they're stupid/wrong for varying reasons (usually being that their opinions don't jive with your own) and just generally don't get along with anyone. This is the crux of why nobody ever talks to you any more.
Click to expand...
Well if you want to be in this delusion that I'm an asshole who wants everyone with an opposing opinion to shut the fuck up, then be my guest. But it isn't productive, full of misinformation and lies, and has nothing to do with the posts your responding to.
 
Infinite Justice said:
tbh i don't remember seeing much butt shots.




Oda has been giving competition but yea Kubo still remains on top.




Wednesday/ShounenGAF complete
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Ironically, FT rarely does panty shots, but it's virtually nothing but fanservice. Mashima clearly has a breast fixation.

Big One said:
Umm no I have never claimed I'm 100% right on any of my opinions, ever. The only reason anyone would think this if they were reading my posts wrong or taking them out of context.

I AM however 100% correct that this is a forum, and a forum is a place of opinions and discussion. That's just a fact, and if you can't handle that you shouldn't be here.


No, sorry. That's never ever my intention. If people get mad about my posts that's their problem. I'm only here to share my opinion amongst others, if they get mad at me for saying that their opinion doesn't quite work then tough luck. A part of discussion is improving your stance by rounding it out amongst other people's stances. If someone says, "Hey, I find a flaw in your reasoning here..." you don't go, "LOLOLOL TROLL GTFO" nope you round out everything by making your reasoning more logical and sound.

Well if you want to be in this delusion that I'm an asshole who wants everyone with an opposing opinion to shut the fuck up, then be my guest. But it isn't productive, full of misinformation and lies, and has nothing to do with the posts your responding to.
Click to expand...
You're really going heavy on this weird idea that everyone wants to suppress your opinions, but that isn't true. I just think you're very, very interested in saying how much you hate certain things and its not new information that you hate them. Even when you say something positive (talking about Eiichiro Oda), you tend to characterize it in terms of negative things, e.g. "Yeah it's called storytelling, a talent Kishimoto and Kubo do not possess."

I don't much like smut manga either, but I'd like to think I'm at least friendly about ribbing smutGAF about it.
 
WednesdayGAF ist best GAF indeed lol

Medaka Box
Now that's how you propose to a girl, way to go Zenkichi

Beelzebub
Hilda's deadpan remarks are hilarious. Now how will Furuichi will lose his winning money, no way he will get to keep that.
 
Akito said:
WednesdayGAF ist best GAF indeed lol

Medaka Box
Now that's how you propose to a girl, way to go Zenkichi

Beelzebub
Hilda's deadpan remarks are hilarious. Now how will Furuichi will lose his winning money, no way he will get to keep that.
Click to expand...
Regged in 2012? You missed most of Wednesday Wars. The bulk of it was a 2011 thing. =P
 
Big One said:
Okay well I'll say this in response: As it stands, Kubo has not once really proved himself to make some pretty damn good art like Oda and Kishimoto have. Saying he has the potential to isn't much of an argument cause there really isn't any signs there to begin with. Kishimoto for example draws bland as fuck but then you get random awesome shit scattered throughout the Naruto manga, and he's also drawn outside of Naruto showing he has actual talent as an artist. It verifies that Kishimoto really is a pretty damn good artist, but with Kubo all we got to weigh his ability on is Bleach and I guess Zombie Powder (which isn't any different).

You just really can't claim Kubo has the talent to do this and that without anything to really back it up. Kubo has to prove himself pretty damn good in my book after years of awful art and/or a lack of art.
Click to expand...

Oi.

I'm not basing this on nothing buddyboy.

Look, how often does Bleach have backgrounds? 0.1% of the time, nowadays.

however within that 0.1% of backgrounds Bleach does have, Kubo has drawn trees, rocks, desert-ish areas, buildings of various sizes and types.

He's used vanishing lines, geometric and organic structures.

all of this is present in Bleach! All of it.

Just in the same way he has drawn a lot of unique people. Some incredibly gorgeous, others very manly or weird. You could argue most of his female characters look the same, but hey, he's a manga artist, they do that.

There's two or three things you could argue:

1.Kubo is slow at drawing backgrounds or finds them difficult, so avoids them

2. Kubo's desire to be inventive in terms of designs and scenery are extremely shallow, so he tends to just draw the same stuff most of the time

3.Kubo can draw different people, but clearly prefers taking the easy route and making most important characters very similar in terms of design either for personal preference, or cause he finds "weird" designs hard to do.


But you cannot, and I repeat, cannot say, Kubo is incapable of producing good quality backgrounds in terms of artistic talent.

Here's why: Consistently, when Kubo does draw something he barely draws, say, a tree, he succeeds at it.

He clearly shows us, the reader, that he's fully capable of drawing stuff he tends to avoid. This means that he's proven several skills through the course of his manga that he barely applies.

The easier solution as to why is clear: it's not that he can't. It's that he won't.

Just going back to chapter 10 or 11 of Bleach should remind you of the time Kubo did draw backgrounds and stuff. I think he's an idiot for no longer doing it, but I don't understand how you're capable of saying "he can't".




note: I'm seperating sheer artistic capability and originality into two different boxes here btw. You heavily focus on Kubo's artistic merrits, not his originality, so that's what I decided to focus on.
 
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