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[Dr. Pangloss]

Have you never looked at the per plate costs of Obama fund raisers?

I know how the fundraisers work. I highlighted it to give people an idea of how much per person that the candidates rake in. I also just wanted to show that the rich can be self deluded too. I always like it when you trot out the Obama supporter that doesn't think they have to pay their mortgage back in December 2008.

 

[GremlinFool]

Christie really needs to lose some lbs before he could ever consider running for president. I was present at his talk today at the Brookings Institution, and it is downright obscene how rotund this man is. Until presidential elections stop being at least vaguely based on physical presence, he does not stand a chance.

 

[pigeon]

From our point of view you're arguing that the elite should be allowed to dictate this entity and control its monopoly rather than leave it to the populace.

I think the argument is that they will in any case unless the populace actively takes action to prevent this, and that disunified action is not sufficient to do so.

 

[The Technomancer]

I think the argument is that they will in any case unless the populace actively takes action to prevent this, and that disunified action is not sufficient to do so.

Basically.

 

[benjipwns]

I don't see how the populace can have that control without some entity encouraging and discouraging certain behaviors. Its going to consolidate into the hands of a few, this is basically a trend in financial history. You don't get unregulated even distributions of wealth.
Better that its the hands of a few who are accountable to that population then to a few who aren't.

I think the argument is that they will in any case unless the populace actively takes action to prevent this, and that disunified action is not sufficient to do so.

I will never speak for eznark and such, but yes, basically we're doomed to a totalitarian rule that pretends it's a democracy.

 

[Kosmo]

I know how the fundraisers work. I highlighted it to give people an idea of how much per person that the candidates rake in. I also just wanted to show that the rich can be self deluded too. I always like it when you trot out the Obama supporter that doesn't think they have to pay their mortgage back in December 2008.

It's a classic.

 

[Tamanon]

Christie really needs to lose some lbs before he could ever consider running for president. I was present at his talk today at the Brookings Institution, and it is downright obscene how rotund this man is. Until presidential elections stop being at least vaguely based on physical presence, he does not stand a chance.

Eh, that's not his issue, Christie's temper will get the best of him on any Presidential ambitions. Highest I can see him going is VP, and even that's a stretch.

 

[PhoenixDark]

And two months ago:

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/10/entertainment/la-et-clooney-obama-20120510

That's an $80,000 per couple dinner. Romney is letting people off cheap!

At least Romney isn't asking for people to give him their wedding money.

True, you're right. I'm perfectly fine with attacking Romney's views on income inequality and his policies which will benefit the rich, but attacking his posh vacations and lampooning the rich people who attend his fundraisers reeks of pure resentment. It's ugly, and the Obama camp should probably let others do that shit.

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

True, you're right. I'm perfectly fine with attacking Romney's views on income inequality and his policies which will benefit the rich, but attacking his posh vacations and lampooning the rich people who attend his fundraisers reeks of pure resentment. It's ugly, and the Obama camp should probably let others do that shit.

No ones is attacking anyone. It's just reporting of the views held by some of the wealthy that really drank the Ayn Rand kool-aid. You can laugh at people that step in their own shit. Don't need to attack them.

 

[Loudninja]

Texas Gov. Rick Perry Refuses To Implement ‘Obamacare’

Texas Gov. Rick Perry said Monday he will not implement ‘Obamacare’ provisions such as the Medicaid expansion and the insurance exchanges. The decision could mean that Texas ultimately loses an opportunity to cover half of its uninsured residents and relinquishes to the federal government more control over its health care system.

After informing the Obama administration of his intentions in a letter, Perry went on Fox News to explain his position. “If anyone had any doubt, we wanted to put it clearly to bed that Texas wasn’t going to be a part of expanding socializing of our medicine,” he said. “So we’re not going to participate in any exchanges. We’re not going to expand Medicaid.”

One in four Texans are uninsured, the highest rate of any state. The Medicaid expansion would cover 49.4 percent of uninsured Texans by 2019, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. The program is broadened to cover Americans within 133 percent of the poverty line — currently the eligibility for a working Texan parent cuts off at 27 percent. The federal government will cover the full cost of the first three years and pay 90 percent thereafter.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...care-medicaid-expansion-exchanges.php?ref=fpa

 

[The Technomancer]

Huh...until people made it the focus of the discussion I didn't attach any significance, positive or negative, to the donation amount. I was focusing on what she actually said.

 

[electricpirate]

Texas Gov. Rick Perry Refuses To Implement ‘Obamacare’

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...care-medicaid-expansion-exchanges.php?ref=fpa

In regards to medicaid expansion, I can't imagine that the pressure hospital lobbyists will begin applying as their uncompensated care benefits shrivel up will take too long too sway the texas state government.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

Texas Gov. Rick Perry Refuses To Implement ‘Obamacare’

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...care-medicaid-expansion-exchanges.php?ref=fpa

what a fucking moron.

 

[viciousDC]

True, you're right. I'm perfectly fine with attacking Romney's views on income inequality and his policies which will benefit the rich, but attacking his posh vacations and lampooning the rich people who attend his fundraisers reeks of pure resentment. It's ugly, and the Obama camp should probably let others do that shit.

Oh the Romney money backers and Romney himself make giant fools out of themselves constantly. It's fair to report on it and mock it.

 

[Loudninja]

Some fun comments from a Romney fundraiser:

How very stupid, she sure is going to win over people now.

 

[kehs]

Texas Gov. Rick Perry Refuses To Implement ‘Obamacare’

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...care-medicaid-expansion-exchanges.php?ref=fpa

I don't think he realizes this will make it harder and not easier to steal money.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Texas Gov. Rick Perry Refuses To Implement ‘Obamacare’

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...care-medicaid-expansion-exchanges.php?ref=fpa

I seriously doubt this

 

[eznark]

I seriously doubt this

A lot of governors have been rumbling the same thing. I think what it really means is "until this election is over and Congress funds it, we aren't going to start implementation."

 

[The Technomancer]

A lot of governors have been rumbling the same thing. I think what it really means is "until this election is over and Congress funds it, we aren't going to start implementation."

What it really means is pretty clearly "we're going to come out against Obummercare so that when we inevitably accept it we can have our cake and eat it too"

 

[eznark]

What it really means is pretty clearly "we're going to come out against Obummercare so that when we inevitably accept it we can have our cake and eat it too"

Sure, but plenty of states have already been implementing it and will have to eat those costs should the absurd happen.

Also, lol why u fear gumbmint?

http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/9/3147126/carriers-spike-police-cellphone-surveillance

 

[AlteredBeast]

Huh...until people made it the focus of the discussion I didn't attach any significance, positive or negative, to the donation amount. I was focusing on what she actually said.

You or the OP bolded the amount part...

 

[eznark]

Welp, I'm convinced. Is he going to be on the ballot anywhere?

All 50 states.

 

[PhoenixDark]

A lot of governors have been rumbling the same thing. I think what it really means is "until this election is over and Congress funds it, we aren't going to start implementation."

Pretty much. Assuming Obama wins, governors will simply quietly implement Obamacare. No one turns down federal money

 

[eznark]

Pretty much. Assuming Obama wins, governors will simply quietly implement Obamacare. No one turns down federal money

choo choo train money was turned down

 

[empty vessel]

Sure, but plenty of states have already been implementing it and will have to eat those costs should the absurd happen.

Also, lol why u fear gumbmint?

http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/9/3147126/carriers-spike-police-cellphone-surveillance

I definitely fear the government's use of law enforcement targeted at citizens. I definitely do not fear the government's use of hospitals to treat sick people. If there are elements of government we fear, and elements we do not fear, let's work to strengthen the elements we don't fear at the expense of those we do. Deal?

 

[PhoenixDark]

choo choo train money was turned down

Ahhh yea you're right. Although I would argue that's a different case considering some of those costs would likely be passed to states, and they didn't want to deal with them

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

choo choo train money was turned down

Train money for a project that didn't exist yet and had no real vested interest verses a program that has been around since the 1960s and leaving hospitals on the hook for a large chunk of the uncompensated care.

 

[eznark]

Train money for a project that didn't exist yet and had no real vested interest verses a program that has been around since the 1960s and leaving hospitals on the hook for a large chunk of the uncompensated care.

And?

 

[The Technomancer]

You or the OP bolded the amount part...

Er, what? I just looked back to make sure I didn't misremember, nothing in the quoted text was bolded.

To be clear I'm talking about the Romney fundraiser article.

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

Er, what? I just looked back to make sure I didn't misremember, nothing in the quoted text was bolded.

To be clear I'm talking about the Romney fundraiser article.

I unbolded the fundraising part since people were making a fuss about it. I originally bolded it to give a perspective of the people that were making the comments.

And?

Republicans run hospitals and administer healthcare services too. Ask Rick Scott.

 

[The Technomancer]

I unbolded the fundraising part since people were making a fuss about it. I originally bolded it to give a perspective of the people that were making the comments.

Ah, gotcha

 

[eznark]

Republicans run hospitals and administer healthcare services too. Ask Rick Scott.

What does that have to do with the fact that states have, as recently as last year, explicitly turned down significant chunks of federal money?

 

[codhand]

Christie really needs to lose some lbs
Until presidential elections stop being at least vaguely based on physical presence, he does not stand a chance.

If it was based on physical presence he would win by a landslide.

 

[PhoenixDark]

What does that have to do with the fact that states have, as recently as last year, explicitly turned down significant chunks of federal money?

Building trains is quite different from getting health care costs under control - you know, which are blowing up state budgets. Financially it's a very large incentive and I expect nearly every republican governor, especially in southern states, to jump on board after the nonsense tampers down

 

[The Librarian]

Obama's been very good at diffusing the bad jobs numbers by introducing a new element to talk about. Gay marriage, new immigration policy, health care (though admittedly not his initiative) and now the Bush tax cuts.

What was most interesting, to me, was Obama's subtle shift in policy. He's only calling for a one-year extension of the middle class tax cuts whereas before he wanted them permanently extended. Perhaps leverage for tax reform?

 

[eznark]

Building trains is quite different from getting health care costs under control - you know, which are blowing up state budgets. Financially it's a very large incentive and I expect nearly every republican governor, especially in southern states, to jump on board after the nonsense tampers down

As do I. Like I said, this is just a delay/keep it in the news tactic. "Keep fighting the good fight, we haven't lost yet" type garbage.

 

[Tim-E]

Obama's been very good at diffusing the bad jobs numbers by introducing a new element to talk about. Gay marriage, new immigration policy, health care (though admittedly not his initiative) and now the Bush tax cuts.

What was most interesting, to me, was Obama's subtle shift in policy. He's only calling for a one-year extension of the middle class tax cuts whereas before he wanted them permanently extended. Perhaps leverage for tax reform?

That's what I think/hope. Without the stress of re-election, he would hopefully act on it.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Obama's been very good at diffusing the bad jobs numbers by introducing a new element to talk about. Gay marriage, new immigration policy, health care (though admittedly not his initiative) and now the Bush tax cuts.

What was most interesting, to me, was Obama's subtle shift in policy. He's only calling for a one-year extension of the middle class tax cuts whereas before he wanted them permanently extended. Perhaps leverage for tax reform?

yawn

He'll sign a full renewal if he wins and you know it. All this tough talk assumes people have forgotten who actually controls the debate/hostage: the GOP. If they refuse to come to the table, taxes go up and Obama is blamed. Although if Obama had balls he'd let them expire and then offer a middle class tax cut/Reid passes it in the senate. Then dare the House to vote against it

 

[cartoon_soldier]

yawn

He'll sign a full renewal if he wins and you know it. All this tough talk assumes people have forgotten who actually controls the debate/hostage: the GOP. If they refuse to come to the table, taxes go up and Obama is blamed. Although if Obama had balls he'd let them expire and then offer a middle class tax cut/Reid passes it in the senate. Then dare the House to vote against it

I think he will let them all expire before end of his 2nd term provided the economy is doing good again (UE at 6%)

 

[ToxicAdam]

I'm more curious to see what happens to the tax cuts if Obama wins the presidency, but the Republicans control both houses. I don't think he's going to allow them to be punted again into Republican control.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

If it was based on physical presence he would win by a landslide.

It would be rechristened "earthquake".

 

[codhand]

It would be rechristened "earthquake".

Plus his leverage would be unprecedented. heey oooo

 

[pigeon]

yawn

He'll sign a full renewal if he wins and you know it. All this tough talk assumes people have forgotten who actually controls the debate/hostage: the GOP. If they refuse to come to the table, taxes go up and Obama is blamed.

If Obama wins, he doesn't have to worry about getting blamed, because he can't get elected again. He can then champion the new middle-class-only tax cut as if it were a totally new idea. He can wait months or years if he has to.

 

[Amir0x]

it'd be nice to see a landscape where the GOP isn't so concerned about doing everything it can to not allow Obama to get re-elected. Not that I believe anything will actually change substantively

 

[Diablos]

it'd be nice to see a landscape where the GOP isn't so concerned about doing everything it can to not allow Obama to get re-elected. Not that I believe anything will actually change substantively

If he gets re-elected, they'll introduce something proposing that a second term Democratic President is only entitled to two more years

 

[ToxicAdam]

it'd be nice to see a landscape where the GOP isn't so concerned about doing everything it can to not allow Obama to get re-elected. Not that I believe anything will actually change substantively

Same could be said about a President that visits Ohio every month of his presidency and signs major bills in swing states.

 

[Dude Abides]

Same could be said about a President that visits Ohio every month of his presidency and signs major bills in swing states.

Agreed. An Obama who no longer worries about catering to swing voters would be a significant improvement.

 

[Blergmeister]

it'd be nice to see a landscape where the GOP isn't so concerned about doing everything it can to not allow Obama to get re-elected. Not that I believe anything will actually change substantively

They'll declare success because they already successfully prevented Obama from winning a third election!

 

[PhoenixDark]

it'd be nice to see a landscape where the GOP isn't so concerned about doing everything it can to not allow Obama to get re-elected. Not that I believe anything will actually change substantively

The goal will still be the same: sabatage his presidency, capitalize off the base's extreme hate for him, and turn him into the democrat Bush.

 

[Amir0x]

Same could be said about a President that visits Ohio every month of his presidency and signs major bills in swing states.

Sure, but, there is a level of false equivalency there - sure, Obama is doing it in the name of political expediency, but his motives are sound, he's not trying to destroy the country in the process. The Republicans are literally trying to destroy Obama any way possible, country be damned, as long as it means he doesn't serve a second term. The jockeying over the debt limit is a perfect example of this shit - no normal, sane politician would play chicken with the country like this, but here we are at the precipice.

One is far more dangerous than the other.