What are your issues with Sonic?

Pie and Beans said:
Hey Sonic fan, did you buy Rayman Origins at launch with that gorgeous 2d artwork and super fast momentum based platforming in latter stages? Or perhaps you were waving your money at the exhiliration of 3d titles like Bayonetta, Vanquish, Batman Arkham City or Gravity Rush right from day one? Oh, its got a throwback to Green Hill Zone does it.
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the hell
 
Misguided said:
Am I the only one who's never liked Sonic period? Old games and all?
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no, I'm with you

even at nine, when i first played Sonic for the Megadrive, I couldnt understand what the fuss was all about. I was like "People are comparing this to SMW?"

I just find Sonic, the world, its core gameplay completely bland and too simple


nice music though.
 
Don't know why but I've never loved Sonic games...Maybe because I've grown up with Mario kind of platformers where there are different times of reaction and you could explore better the scenario instead of GOTTAGOFAST...
I tried to play the first Sonic (downloaded for 360), Heroes, Seven Rings and Adventure but damn, I've never get so much into them.
And that's a pity.
 
I love new 3d sonic as in generations/unleashed type stuff. That's the closest we will get to sonic done right in 3d add in some more branching path stuff and we are set. Only thing I like about the older sonic games is the music is still catchy, nothing touches rooftop run though.

2d sonic is just basic and boring to me now.
 
QisTopTier said:
That's the closest we will get to sonic done right in 3d
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This is the mindset that irritates me the most. That Sega doesn't even have to try really, they're given some special pat on the head like "well done, thats the most we can expect, and like a settings menu slider I will adjust my expectations accordingly".

The reason I raised other games is because I CAN'T adjust my expectations on some bizarre grading curve to special cases, moreso with games than any other medium due to their technical nature, nor really should I be expected to -- thats just the nostalgic attachment to a franchise or character at work there. If I'm playing astounding 2d experiences in other platform franchises, or 3d games with far more interesting physics and level design and fast fluid action then why should I settle for less -- hell, fans can even do it better now. Its just embarrassing.
 
I started to dislike Sonic when SA released. They ran so far away from S3&K that it alienated a lot of their fanbase, IMO.
 
Pie and Beans said:
This is the mindset that irritates me the most. That Sega doesn't even have to try really, they're given some special pat on the head like "well done, thats the most we can expect, and like a settings menu slider I will adjust my expectations accordingly".

The reason I raised other games is because I CAN'T adjust my expectations on some bizarre grading curve to special cases, nor really should I be expected to -- thats just the nostalgic attachment to a franchise or character at work there. If I'm playing astounding 2d experiences in other platform franchises, or 3d games with far more interesting physics and level design and fast fluid action then why should I settle for less -- hell, fans can even do it better now. Its just embarrassing.
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I have no idea what you are talking about or how it relates to how I feel about the games. If you think the 2d sonic games are not like the 3d levels in generations *minus a bit more of the platforming and split paths* Then you should really take off your nostalgia glasses.
 
my primary issue with sonic is that I don't give a fuck about sonic anymore.

Yes, I know, sonic 1-3 and cd were ace, but get over it already, he's dead.
 
Yaceka said:
Everything was solved for me with Colors/Generations. I still hate everything to do with Sonic 4 though. What an abomination.

Here are the only "good" Sonic games:
Sonic 1, 2, 3, Knuckles, Adventure (only if you play as Sonic and ignore everything but the Action stages), Advance, Unleashed (ignore the Werehog and it's good), Colors, Generations.

Everything else is a downward slope to shit.
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Have you given the 8-bit Sonic's a try? A number of those were fun, I thought.
 
The next 3D platformer needs to have more of an emphasis on actual 3D platforming instead of this 2D/3D split that's been present in every 3D game since Unleashed. It was fun at first but now I'm just bored of it.

Besides that, not much else bothers me about the franchise right now tbh. Just keep making games on the same level of quality as Colours and Generations and I'll be more than happy to keep playing 'em.
 
I like neither Generations nor Colors.

My issue with Sonic is that it is no longer a forward moving series. It's stuck in a middle ground where there are no more games that try to do a 3D Sonic right. What exists now are just extensions of the Rush formula along with mediocre/awful throwbacks to the past. Sonic Adventure was probably the last Sonic game I felt, while flawed, was truly inspired.
 
The design, how the friends and enemies are (Mario has friends, but done in a right way), how the 3D (and new 2D) games play, how bugfest some of them are and Iizuka.

I have Sonic generations, I like Sonic Generations, but I think is starting to have too much praise, when its not that good to begin with, it has problems that people seem to overlook because the old ones were so horrible. Dont get me wrong, its a good start if the franchise started to go up from here (as I said, even if its not excellent, its a good game, with good ideas), sadly with Iizuka im pretty sure they will get wrong again what they got right with Generations and start adding more trash, than will only hurt the game as a mascot platformer.

Im sorry but the only thing will save the franchise (and im talking about creating platformer amazing games like Mario, not continuing to do, only good games, that is also a possiblity) is kick out Iizuka and give it to EAD to make a FULL reboot. Designs, friends, gameplay, absolutley all needs to change.

Dont worry about kids sales, they will buy it at the end, even if the designs turn more oldschool.The good thing is that when they are older they will see that they were playing not only something they thought it was cool, but also a game that was excellent.

Too bad this is never going to happen.
 
petethepanda said:
That they insist on doing all this 2D crap to appease the insane fans who only want new Genesis games. Do a fully "3D" one but do it right.
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did you play colors?

Lan_97 said:
I like neither Generations nor Colors.

My issue with Sonic is that it is no longer a forward moving series. It's stuck in a middle ground where there are no more games that try to do a 3D Sonic right. What exists now are just extensions of the Rush formula along with mediocre/awful throwbacks to the past. Sonic Adventure was probably the last Sonic game I felt, while flawed, was truly inspired.
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but Colors tried its own thing. so did Unleashed, obviously with quite lesser results.

what exactly about SA1 was inspired that these games lack?
 
A few reasons:

  • The games have been mediocre or bad since the end of the Sega Genesis.
  • The Sonic brand has been horribly horribly mismanaged since the end of the Sega Genesis, coming up with shitty weird games without having any solid game to hold the brand over
  • Sonic super fans are so weird.

Also, i'm tired of getting burned by sonic. For this whole generation, we've been built up that "THE NEXT SONIC IS GOING BACK TO ITS ROOTS!!!" and then we get it ... and the game has entirely different functionality and plays so differently from it's "roots." The thing is, we probably don't want a Sonic roots game (why not just play Sonic 2, arguably a perfect game), and the changes they make while calling it authentic to the original sonic experience make it feel crappy. I'm tired of so many sonic games saying "THIS IS THE ONE! SONIC IS BACK!" only to have some shitty Sonic game. Reminds me of Weezer. Every die hard Weezer fan I know (you know the lot), whenever they come out iwith a new album everybody is like "omg this album is supposed to be JUST like Pinkerton and the Blue Album" and it comes out and it's got stupid shitty songs and the same boring sound and a bunch of crappy pop tracks that end up in Adam Sandler movies. And it's been this way for 15 years. Same with Sonic man. Same with Sonic.
 
Actually my enjoyment rekindled a bit with Generations and Colors. Not amazing "A" games by any means, but they're colorful and enjoyable.

Before those I had lost interest in his games. Even the much lauded Sonic Rush on handhelds was an eye rolling snoozefest of been there, done that for me.
 
Just continue to evolve Sonic Colors.

It's already bordering on the heavy redesign a lot of people are asking for. It created new worlds, themes, and kept it simple. It had no shitty friends. It got back to the wild pop-art look of the original Genesis games. It had a nearly perfect balance of 2D and 3D level sections - unlike Generations which forced the 3D parts to go on for too long, due to its theme of segregated 2D and 3D characters.

Sonic Colors also had the self-referential sense of humor that the series needs. Robotnik PA speaker services was some of the funniest shit in gaming.

Seriously people, if you haven't played it, just play Colors. There is your roadmap to 'saving' Sonic. Best Sonic game since the Genesis quadrology.

Sonic just needs to continue polishing up what Colors started. Probably the biggest single thing is figuring out a good, auto-correcting navigation spline system so that Sonic feels fully natural in 3D view when running full speed around curved track. That's still awkward and there's no fluidity to it. Fortunately it almost never matters in Colors, but it sucked the polish out of Generations due to so many fully 3D levels with so many long running sections.

People should remember that Colors was the full blown, 'we have a vision' title that came to fruition almost perfectly, while Generations was hacked together. They didn't even have the 2D Sonic gimmick until later in development.
 
Kong Fisso said:
my primary issue with sonic is that I don't give a fuck about sonic anymore.

Yes, I know, sonic 1-3 and cd were ace, but get over it already, he's dead.
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Sonic_Colors_box_artwork.png


Sonic_Generations_Logo.jpg


well shiet.
 
My issue: after Sonic went to 3D the games focused less on platforming and more on "going fast".

It's as if developers were building off of the persona of Sonic from the comics/cartoons rather than the genesis games. The genesis games were platformers first - and if you were really good at the game, then it was about going as fast as possible. Sometimes those games had you going slow, taking time, etc. Then it became about zooming past everything.

I was very happy with Generations though, many of the levels had the same feel as the old games. (i.e. it was enjoyable)
 
Kaijima said:
Just continue to evolve Sonic Colors.

It's already bordering on the heavy redesign a lot of people are asking for. It created new worlds, themes, and kept it simple. It had no shitty friends. It got back to the wild pop-art look of the original Genesis games. It had a nearly perfect balance of 2D and 3D level sections - unlike Generations which forced the 3D parts to go on for too long, due to its theme of segregated 2D and 3D characters.

Sonic Colors also had the self-referential sense of humor that the series needs. Robotnik PA speaker services was some of the funniest shit in gaming.

Seriously people, if you haven't played it, just play Colors. There is your roadmap to 'saving' Sonic. Best Sonic game since the Genesis quadrology.

Sonic just needs to continue polishing up what Colors started. Probably the biggest single thing is figuring out a good, auto-correcting navigation spline system so that Sonic feels fully natural in 3D view when running full speed around curved track. That's still awkward and there's no fluidity to it. Fortunately it almost never matters in Colors, but it sucked the polish out of Generations due to so many fully 3D levels with so many long running sections.

People should remember that Colors was the full blown, 'we have a vision' title that came to fruition almost perfectly, while Generations was hacked together. They didn't even have the 2D Sonic gimmick until later in development.
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I havent played Colors, but from all what I have seen and hear, it seems to be a better game than generations.
I still need redesings though.
 
Sonic turned to shit once Sega started making 3D Sonics and chucking in 'epic stories'. They seem to be back on track with Generations though.
 
Dark Schala said:
Tyeforce's post brings up a pretty good point--there is a division between fans. Not just one, but several. You have people who grew up with the older Genesis/Mega Drive and Master System/Game Gear titles who may or may not like the series anymore, people who just started with the Adventure titles, people who just started with the Adventure titles on the GameCube, and people who just started with the series now whether with the storybook games, very recent games or at the beginning of the generation.

That's a hell of a lot of people to try to cater to, especially because people joined in at different times when Sega was modifying how each game played.


I think it was just Sonic Team in general. Don't quote me, though. Someone else might have a better for that.


Something I've always noticed with Sonic soundtracks is that they tend to try to utilize the music that's popular at the time period in which the game is being developed. That happened in the past, and it's still happening now.
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So in the next game the soundtrack should have progressive house with trance strings and dubstep parts.

Sounds better.
 
danwarb said:
Guy should keep his mouth shut. Sonic was much better mute.
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Thank You!

If Sonic never opened his mouth I would be happy. Sonic needs to be silent. I liked Generations expect for that backtracking to unlock new levels. Episode II fixed most of the floaty physics and lack of momentum issues from Episode I. If SEGA gave us more like the classic stages from Generations and Episode II I would be happy.
 
The game is just cheesy. Like someone else said, it 1991 it was "edgy" and cool, than it became an emulator of the cheesy cartoon. Childish voices, lame story and clunky gameplay. Half the time these games feel like they're on rails anyway.
 
Did you play Sonic Generations 360/PS3/PC?
Yes on PC

Did you enjoy Sonic Generations?
Mostly. The first half was better because I enjoyed the level design more. Sonic 2006 and Colors levels were just horrible.

Did you play Sonic Colors Wii?
Yes, mostly anyway.

Did you enjoy Sonic Colors?
Not really. Well some parts were all right but I wasn't keen on the power-up transformation things.

My issues with Sonic games these days:
1. I prefer his original design. His original design looked cool as well as cute. He was a cool guy. The modern design makes him look like a giant douche who thinks way too highly of himself.

2. Mute Sonic is better Sonic, as proven by Generations.

3. Less friends please. And if you do introduce new characters, at least make them look good. I honestly think outside of the main 3 characters (Sonic, Tails and Knuckles) most characters look silly.

4. Less city environments. I don't want it to look like Sonic is tearing up the streets of San Francisco.

5. Dr Robotnik please, none of this silly Eggman rubbish.

EDIT: 6. Annoying "rock" music with cheesy lyrics.
 
My issues with Sonic are that he needs to not talk. There needs to be no cheesy over the top stories. Just keep it minimalistic. All I want is decent platforming with a little speed. That's it.
 
Did you play Sonic Generations 360/PS3/PC?
Yes

Did you enjoy Sonic Generations?
No

Did you play Sonic Colors Wii
Yes

Did you enjoy Sonic Colors
No


Popular Issues with Sonic
1. Modern Design
Sonic's design was changed with Sonic Adventure. His eyes became green instead of black, his quills became longer, and his body became more slender.

The older design was less goofy, but I don't really care.


2. I don't like the Adventure series (Meaning you've played the Adventure games)
A common issue is that the Adventure games are so much more different than the 2D ones, but they also just don't appeal to your tastes for whatever reason. If they don't appeal to you, state why specifically.
Adventure was the first time they used voiceovers in a Sonic game, and it's also the first time Sonic had a real story.

I did not like the adventure games. Poor camera, controls, terrible music, less interesting level design.


3. I don't like Sonic's friends

Sonic's friends get a backlash for a few reasons usually. They are incorperated with gameplay styles that people feel aren't as good as Sonic's. They also bring more story elements into the series which apparently people don't like in Sonic.
Do you have a specific reason why you dislike Sonic's friends? State why.

I don't care as long as they're incorporated well. Mostly they're not. Tails & knuckles were fun in 2,3 & K as they had different ways to traverse levels well designed enough to take advantage of their skills.

Story elements in sonic are universally terrible.


4. 2D Sonic is the only good Sonic

Usually there is a dislike for 3D Sonic as a whole, and people only like the 2D ones. Have you experienced 3D Sonic games? State why you only like 2D Sonic.

Yes. Because the 3D games either have terrible camera/control issues, or, like most recent iterations, are on rails - which is even worse. Fix that and there might be a good 3D sonic game.


5. Other

If you have another issue with Sonic, post it.

Recent 2D sonic games have terrible level design, gimmicky moves that add nothing to the experience(ie homing), and in the main very poor physics.

Now here's a big question.

What does Sonic Team need to do next?

In your view, what would Sonic need to do to win you over again?

Make 2D sonic games that start with old physics, no homing, and interesting level design so there is a solid ground before you try and tweak things to keep up interest.
Make 3D sonic games with mario 64 style open levels, very little on rail segments(just loop-de-loops and the like), and solid camera and controls.

maybe nintendo will lend them yasuhara so they can design decent levels
 
My issues with Sonic is that outside of Sonic 1-3 and CD, the games just aren't very fun to play.

All I want is just a simple, uncomplicated, pure platforming experience without any useless non-gameplay related crap shitting up my would-be enjoyment.

Oh, and I can't handle pretentious garbage in Sonic. It's a fucking colorful little kids game with happy, bouncy memorable music and dancing fucking flowers. I don't need melodramatics in my anthropomorphic children's mascot character games. Please.
 
my issue with sonic:

everyone, publishers, developers, most consumers, think it's all about SPEED.

it's simply not.

(also fucked up are physics, design, gimmicks)
 
Misguided said:
Am I the only one who's never liked Sonic period? Old games and all?
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No, and funnily I didn't know why I don't like him until I read the very next post:

SpinningBirdKick said:
Sonic was never fun.
Level design was tedious and uninspired often dragging on for longer than was necessary.
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It was just plain annoying. The games are about speed, but the levels were part exploration/part speed segments. There was no flow, and losing rings when hitting a single enemy didn't favor exploration but rather speedrunning through the levels. I wasn't a SEGA gamer back in the nineties and have more fond memories of Mario, though.

It would have been cool if it focused on either of them, but I can't get any fun out of them.
 
His modern design sucks and the games he's in suck. Sonic Generations might have been alright if I could have only played the classic stages but of course they force you to play the modern bullshit too.
 
Did you play Sonic Generations 360/PS3/PC?
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Yes. PS3.

Did you enjoy Sonic Generations?
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Yes.

Did you play Sonic Colors Wii?
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No.

Did you enjoy Sonic Colors?
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Haven't played it, so I can't say. If it's basically 3D only Generations like it looks like, I probably would though.

So I'll get to the point now. What are your issues with Sonic? Here is a list below that states some of the most popular issues with Sonic, feel free to post the numbers to represent which one.

Popular Issues with Sonic
[*]1. Modern Design

Sonic's design was changed with Sonic Adventure. His eyes became green instead of black, his quills became longer, and his body became more slender.
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A non-issue, along with the Eggman/Robotnik nonsense.

[*]2. I don't like the Adventure series (Meaning you've played the Adventure games)

A common issue is that the Adventure games are so much more different than the 2D ones, but they also just don't appeal to your tastes for whatever reason. If they don't appeal to you, state why specifically.
Adventure was the first time they used voiceovers in a Sonic game, and it's also the first time Sonic had a real story.
Click to expand...

I liked Sonic's part of Adventure 1. Knuckles part was ok. Tails was passable. Amy was garbage. I never got to Omega or Super Sonic because I couldn't bring myself to finish Big the Cat. Sonic/Shadow was decent and Knuckles/Rouge was passable, but I didn't like that Tails was stuck in a mech. Heroes was ok. I liked the overall progression format of acts, but it got repetitive and four different storylines was a bit much. I would take a more polished Heroes with tighter controls and less repetition.

[*]3. I don't like Sonic's friends

Sonic's friends get a backlash for a few reasons usually. They are incorperated with gameplay styles that people feel aren't as good as Sonic's. They also bring more story elements into the series which apparently people don't like in Sonic.
Do you have a specific reason why you dislike Sonic's friends? State why.
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Their mere existence is a non-issue. The issue is the gameplay involved. As stated above, Amy and Big were garbage, and Tails in a mech was unacceptable. Playing 3 more playthroughs with them in Heroes was unnecessary.

[*]4. 2D Sonic is the only good Sonic

Usually there is a dislike for 3D Sonic as a whole, and people only like the 2D ones. Have you experienced 3D Sonic games? State why you only like 2D Sonic.
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This is nonsense, and pandering to those who think like this is what got us Sonic 4.

[*]5. Other

If you have another issue with Sonic, post it.
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I haven't played any of the games between Heroes and Generations, but from what I've seen post 06 (and played in Generations), there seems to be too much emphasis on speed, not enough 3D plaforming, and too much reliance on 2D sections to make up for it.

Now here's a big question.

What does Sonic Team need to do next?

In your view, what would Sonic need to do to win you over again?
Click to expand...

Just concentrate on making a full-fledged 3D game that stands on its own without any Genesis/2D fan pandering. I guess you could say "Colors without the Wisps," with the level design being a refinement of the Modern Sky Sanctuary/Seaside Hill type design, well balanced with speed and platforming in 3D.
 
IrishNinja said:
these juniors, man...i just dont know
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One thing I have noticed about GAF is that over the past 6-7 years, there has been an exponential increase in the amount of, uh, 'interesting' Sonic fans popping up on here. GAF was generally pretty dismissive of modern Sonic crap around the time Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes came out.

My only conclusion is that lame Sonic cartoon from the early 00's had a weird effect on people, and those people are now older. And weirder.

Or perhaps the downward spiral of the quality of the games has created an inverse effect in attracting weird people. Like flies to shit.
 
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