Liberty4all
Banned
Yes. Much better. I also like the PSN store better too.
Penny Arcade: the ugly, profitable details about Xbox Live dashboard ads
- Thread starter Sean
- Start date
Yes. Much better. I also like the PSN store better too.
Judging from NPD threads, no one is switching to the PS3. And it won't matter, next gen Sony will be as bad Microsoft this gen. Of course Microsoft will have found a new improved method that Sony and Nintendo will then try to ape and so forth. But is just an off by 1 then.
Spot on! Microsoft has proven there's money to be made in that space - Sony would be crazy not to try and protect their business by staying away.
toythatkills
Member
Do you not think that makes you a bit weird? You know, to be SO AFFECTED by a small picture of a car that you can't even use a service any more? Do you not look at yourself in the mirror and go "am I maybe overreacting here?"
Do you watch television? Do you use the internet? Do you read a newspaper? Have you ever been to the cinema? Do you read magazines? Do you go outside? I used to go outside, but they put billboards EVERYWHERE these days and it adversely affects my enjoyment of going outside, so now I stay inside and stare at a blank white wall for 18 hours a day. It's the only way you can be sure, you know? Of course you know, look who I'm talking to.
Liberty4all
Banned
Same
Liberty4all
Banned
I cancelled cable years ago. The shows I watch are all ad free. I dont read the paper I get everything off ad free sites. Those sites I do use with ads I'm using free of charge. I don't go to the theater unless it's free with air miles. I watch almost all movies at home ad free.
Basically if it's something I'm paying for there aren't ads. If there are I won't pay for it.
Services that are free line YouTube I accept that ads are what pays for the service. Xbox Live Gold is a paid service ... I was ok when the ads were mostly gaming related but lately it's gotten ridiculous. It's also effected the usability of the ui. I won't pay any longer for a service that is obviously catering to advertisers instead of its users.
Blu-rays/DVDs place ads when you boot the disc up - guess you're having to skip 'em, but that's bull, because you PAID for that disc.
Wait, so now because it's ads of games and services on your Xbox 360...they've gone too far? And how did it mess with the UI's usability?
Mr.Wreckless
Banned
The numbers state otherwise. If that were true games on live and points cards wouldnt be dwarfing the PSN numbers.
Liberty4all
Banned
Blu-rays/DVDs place ads when you boot the disc up - guess you're having to skip 'em, but that's bull, because you PAID for that disc.
I don't watch or buy Blu ray or DVDs. The movies and shows I watch are ad free.
Liberty4all
Banned
Currently. PS+ revamp is only a month old and word is traveling fast that there is a new subscription service in town ... One that caters to its users rather than its advertisers.
This thread is awesome, I can't even tell who's joking or who's pulling who's leg.
It's got it all from the car analogy to the stupid rationalisation and the best part is that the apologist don't even understand why there's such reactions.
Unless I'm mistaken the rationalisation was that for XBL to be a working service which is awesome (unless you don't live in the US in which case it's only a crappy scam) you had to pay or else you don't get it at all.
So gamers cough up their money with the knowledge that their hard earned money is used to maintain a service they like.
Here comes this article that goes "Hey wait a minute! the ads they've been putting in XBL more than cover the cost of the service why are we paying again?".
In short if no one came with the justification that the cost for gold membership was for anything at all, nobody would complain now.
It's funny because really it's the same kind of situation for our mobile phone plans, a new competitor came and massively cut the price on the plans with the tagline "you've been scammed for more than 10 years now, if you stay with them enjoy the lube at least" (for the slow, it's not literally what they said).
And now you've got the historical plan providers that are trying to justify their prices by the quality of their services (spoiler : they're all equally crappy), while most customers are actually rather unhappy with how they've been scammed till now (the biggest provider even went as far as saying that they wouldn't cut the price because that would allow them to grow in foreign markets).
I've seen people on the web defend that, I can't say I'm surprised people would defend XBL prices.
I mean at least the alternative is not massively cheaper AND massively better, right?
If you're from continental Europe, you might as well cancel the subscription to XBL and make a donation to your state debt that would serve a better purpose.
It's got it all from the car analogy to the stupid rationalisation and the best part is that the apologist don't even understand why there's such reactions.
Unless I'm mistaken the rationalisation was that for XBL to be a working service which is awesome (unless you don't live in the US in which case it's only a crappy scam) you had to pay or else you don't get it at all.
So gamers cough up their money with the knowledge that their hard earned money is used to maintain a service they like.
Here comes this article that goes "Hey wait a minute! the ads they've been putting in XBL more than cover the cost of the service why are we paying again?".
In short if no one came with the justification that the cost for gold membership was for anything at all, nobody would complain now.
It's funny because really it's the same kind of situation for our mobile phone plans, a new competitor came and massively cut the price on the plans with the tagline "you've been scammed for more than 10 years now, if you stay with them enjoy the lube at least" (for the slow, it's not literally what they said).
And now you've got the historical plan providers that are trying to justify their prices by the quality of their services (spoiler : they're all equally crappy), while most customers are actually rather unhappy with how they've been scammed till now (the biggest provider even went as far as saying that they wouldn't cut the price because that would allow them to grow in foreign markets).
I've seen people on the web defend that, I can't say I'm surprised people would defend XBL prices.
I mean at least the alternative is not massively cheaper AND massively better, right?
If you're from continental Europe, you might as well cancel the subscription to XBL and make a donation to your state debt that would serve a better purpose.
toythatkills
Member
May I ask how the shows you watch and the films you watch are ad free if you're not buying DVDs?
It can't be something like iTunes, because that has adverts on it, so I wondered where you got this stuff.
Liberty4all
Banned
Because I have to use the Old interface to bypass ads. As the pa article stated trying to find content in metro is a nightmare of traversing blade after blade of ads. The UI is being designed to sell advertising space not to cater to paying gamers.
Don't most channels have an online site where you can watch most shows after the fact, I know that here it's ad free (except for the big freaking ad for the channel in question if you can even call it that since it's the bloody banner of the site).
The problem is less the existence of ads in principle, and more that they're so prevalent that they adversely affect the user experience.
If I'm curious what stuff has come out on XBLA in the last few weeks, it takes me a ton of button presses to reach that menu because ads are taking up slots on the menu that could be used to make my navigation faster. That sucks. And I'd better hope I don't want to see what's on XBLIG.
There's no reason for me to accept something that makes it harder to enjoy myself because it makes a company more money.
If I'm curious what stuff has come out on XBLA in the last few weeks, it takes me a ton of button presses to reach that menu because ads are taking up slots on the menu that could be used to make my navigation faster. That sucks. And I'd better hope I don't want to see what's on XBLIG.
There's no reason for me to accept something that makes it harder to enjoy myself because it makes a company more money.
toythatkills
Member
Trying to find content is easy as hell. Press LB then type what you want into Bing. Or say "Xbox, Bing, Outpost Kaloki," and your content is there in seconds.
As I said in another thread, In the last month two million people on Xbox have bought Minecraft. Does it really sound to you like people are having trouble finding stuff? You can say so all you want but the facts don't back it up. When people are looking for something, they can find it.
In the UK, aside from the BBC, all these catch-up services show adverts.
Look at the bright side, if you use Kinect you can do your morning workout just by doing that trying to check news every day!
Of the 6 main channels (make that 15 with their new mainstream channels) we have here, I think only CanalPlus is ripe with ads....It's also the only one worth watching since the site is not some ungodly abomination.
Still depends on the content provider.
Still even if there ads there, at least you're not actually paying for it via a subscription service to get to the content.
Also not ALL dvds are ripe with ads either, House MD dvd sets for example are mandatory ad free.
If you're in the UK I understand even less how you would find the service worth the asking price though.
Liberty4all
Banned
Minecraft is a terrible example ... As it was the most hyped and adverted game on live to date.
Voice command requires kinect. The bing thing I guess I should try. I've been using the old dash pretty much since metro hit, to avoid the ads on the new dash.
toythatkills
Member
So you're saying that Minecraft's success is because of its well positioned advertising?
No, it's because it's bloody Minecraft.
Seriously the thing has been in the news far more than anything else. Even people who didn't even have a 360 knew it was coming.
Next thing you'll tell us that ads in XBL was why anybody knew anything about Fez or when the next COD map pack is coming!
toythatkills
Member
I know everyone knew about Minecraft and it was hyped, but his point was that it's a nightmare to find stuff, and my point is that when people want to find something, clearly they can find it. It's irrelevant that the game is Minecraft, because the point is only that people have been able to find it.
Now either that's because the dashboard isn't as nightmarish to navigate as people claim, or it's because there was an advert for Minecraft which directed people to the content. Either way it completely goes against the "adverts are ruining everything!" argument.
Mr.Wreckless
Banned
Actually many people dont read gamer magazines or read sites all the time looking for that info. A couple of my friends found out about the Dawguard Skyrim DLC not through a magazine, not through neoGAF, and not through a tv ad, but because there was an ad for it on the main Live page. Id be willing to bet the CoD audience is a lot more casual than the Skyrim audience.
I for one consider myself a well informed consumer when it comes to gaming and even so i have only bought games because an ad was shown for a sale i didnt know about or a game i didnt follow. Most of the ads are tailored toward gaming or services i can use on my 360 so i really have no problem with them. If they were advertising Kraft Macaroni and Cheese on the main page then yeah i could see a problem.
No, even on Wiiware, iTunes, Google Play and the eShop it's trivial to find the best selling stuffs, yet you'll see no one claim that they're the paramount of ease of use.
Yeah, I find it pretty hard to think that most people who would buy CoD would only know about the next DLC through only the channel provided by the XBL interface (especially know with the Elite stuffs).
Again I'm not saying that's not how some people found out about SOME addons on some less popular games (by all accounts Skyrim IS less popular than CoD, at least on 360) BUT here it's like arguing that since people can find Super Mario Bros 3 easily on WiiShopChannel then it's one of the best online storefront ever and nothing needs to improve at all.
It suggests that Microsoft is cultivating the same kind of blockbuster model on its digital download store as major publishers do at retail. Certain tentpole releases come out, sell huge amounts in the first week (since they're being advertised on the dashboard), and then cease to exist. That kind of model isn't just unhealthy, but it also goes against everything good about digital distribution, where it's easier than ever for games to have a long tail.
If ads hamper game discovery, it hurts pretty much everyone except the largest releases that can afford to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to get themselves on the dashboard. I don't see how that's good for the consumer at all.
Mr.Wreckless
Banned
It sounds like you are asking for more ads for smaller games, not less ads overall. I think you are asking for better organization of the storefront which is a completely separate discussion from the one about being upset about ads.
Its not most people but the number has to be substantial enough to warrant paying for the ad. Companies dont advertise just because they need something to spend money on.
Xbox 360 and maybe its successors will probably be the only paid MS consumer product that throws ads in your face, that's the amusing part of it. If that's not the case and it's going in everything, then *welp*...
Almost every service that you pay for also had ads. Tv channels, bluray/DVD, cinema, websites, newspapers. Ads help cover the funding, and your payments help too.
I do think the Xbox ads are a little intrusive as they are right in the way of navigation. Perhaps if they were out of the way of normal navigation it'd be less irritating
Do you curl up and cry when you see a billboard? Do you refuse to shop at a store that has advertising? Or does it just make it hard for you to find what you're looking for? I'm not trying to be mean here, but your anti-ad campaign sounds hilarious. It seems so robotic, do you live by a bunch of rigid beliefs and ideas? If so I would seriously enjoy reading them.
Canis lupus
Member
I want PSN store to have a coverflow design, that would be much better than the little icons. Other than that, its perfect.
It's so fucked up to me that on top of gouging consumers for their Xbox Live Gold service, they're also having all this ad space in your face. Like, if I buy Gold, I should be able to opt out of all your damned advertisements. And now to hear they're gouging developers/publishers/etc for ad space?
Add in this, to Microsoft's abandonment of core development outside of Fable/Gears/Halo/Forza, and their abysmal Kinect gamble which ended up being one of the worst peripherals ever invented, and MS has really lept off a cliff. Microsoft started the gen as my favorite of the three consoles, and is ending it as public enemy #1.
Add in this, to Microsoft's abandonment of core development outside of Fable/Gears/Halo/Forza, and their abysmal Kinect gamble which ended up being one of the worst peripherals ever invented, and MS has really lept off a cliff. Microsoft started the gen as my favorite of the three consoles, and is ending it as public enemy #1.
Websites are usually either pay or ads -- and if I had to pay for a site and it still tried to show me ads I'd block them. I don't pay for TV channels, and you can skip all ads on DVDs and Blu-rays with the right player. You got me with the cinema I guess, but that's usually a social event where you use the ad-time to talk to people.
So having a minimum set of standards for services you pay for, and trying to avoid getting advertisements shoved into your face everywhere now is "rigid" and "robotic". Good to know.
snoopeasystreet
Member
That's crazy money. I still don't mind that Xbox live is a paid service though, mainly because it adds value to the gamer tag. XBL is bad enough as it is, now imagine if people playing on line didn't care about losing 60 dollars. It'd be anarchy.
But if you don't personally object, why should anyone else? And I'm not referring to this forum or any group in particular; The fact that Microsoft are treating Gold members very unfairly might have to start somewhere to make certain people realise - the ads were introduced very gradually to people, so until someone comes along and mentions how ridiculous and unfair it is, they might not care.
I guess if I didn't go to the theatre, watch blu-rays, pay for cable, and use old interfaces to avoid ads I would consider that rigid and robotic. But I'm curious if the rest of his/her life is lived with a similar "minimum set of standards."
Speedymanic
Banned
Crazy, if those two little windows affect you that much how do you walk down the street?
Do you just stay indoors? Virtually everything you pay for (directly or indirectly) advertises to you, I will never be able to understand the logic of hating ads on just one service, but happily (or maybe not) accepting them on others.
It takes about eight seconds to get to the new releases for either Sony or MS. Did you know you can use the shoulder buttons to navigate quicker?
Speedymanic
Banned
What? Introducing ads isn't treating anyone unfairly. All it's done is give some people ammunition to attack MS and their premier service, one I might add that still hasn't been bested by anyone else in the console market.
What you're doing is falling into the same trap, the ads don't affect you in anyway, in most cases they are related to content available on the service. Sure, there might an ad for Axe or some other shite, but those aren't in the majority. From my limited data gathering, 85% of all 'ads' in XBL are related to content that is available on the actual console.
Real ads are in the minority. All this thread serves to show is that there's a vocal and incredibly bitter minority who are angry that MS have successfully monetized online gaming and instead of being honest, they thinly veil their argument in a hoeky 'I hate ads, I absolutely avoid them' argument.
They don't even realize their argument doesn't make a lick of sense.
Tranced Shadow
Member
Uhh, none of the TV Shows I've bought off of iTunes has had ads in them...
There is no ticker on the PAL PS3s afaik.
toythatkills
Member
The iTunes interface itself, I mean.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Sorry but I can't be mad.
MS making a little profit on ads that do not disturb my gaming or movie watching is fine. If it helps them justify why they're in the space to their investors, good. If these ads played non-skipable commercials, I'd have a different opinion. Fortunately, that's not the case here. Yes, it's funny to see gaming stuff visually take a back seat on a gaming device...but it's not any more difficult to play my games or watch my movies.
But I understand the complaints too.
MS making a little profit on ads that do not disturb my gaming or movie watching is fine. If it helps them justify why they're in the space to their investors, good. If these ads played non-skipable commercials, I'd have a different opinion. Fortunately, that's not the case here. Yes, it's funny to see gaming stuff visually take a back seat on a gaming device...but it's not any more difficult to play my games or watch my movies.
But I understand the complaints too.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Define "alot". 360 still trumps PS3 versions of all big multiplayer franchises. I don't like ads or the new dashboard any more than anyone else. Even if every GAF reader posted their disdain for them, it wouldn't make a difference. As long as MS knows they're the de facto home for big franchises, and advertisers keep shoveling money at them, this will never stop. Might as well just do what I do, navigate the dashboard and somehow resist running out to the store and immediately buying Doritos or a Ford. I've made it this long.
BruiserBear
Banned
This opinon is so common among the people that defend the Xbox Live ads, and I'm pretty sure it's a function of wanting to justify one's position, by saying things will be equal in the future. It's a very weak basis for an argument, if you can even call it that.
Of course you're ignoring the fact that the Vita just came out, features party chat just like the Xbox 360, and charges nothing for any of it's online features.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
To be fair, I think it's four now.
Speedymanic
Banned
I don't, they don't seem to be legitimate complaints to me. More like general attacks towards MS's successfully monetizing their service.
Ads, p2p gaming, apps behind pay walls, avatar shite, etc. XBL is a money printing machine. It's reaching Nintendo DS levels of money making, if it hasn't already and that's what really pisses some people off.
Speedymanic
Banned
Still two for me, but even if it''s four, you're not swimming in ads by any means.
It's a complaint that falls flat on its face due to its absurd levels of hyperbole. It just can't be taken seriously.