Horrific 10 Percent Literacy Rate Prompts ACLU to Sue Michigan Schools
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Schools are a mess these days. There is not one single problem, but a very large number of problems that weight down the entire system. It's something that no single politician will ever be able to fix, and it has doomed a lot of students in their education.
Waiting for Superman is a good documentary on the subject, it covers some of the things that lead to malfunctioning schools; but even then there are teachers that disagree that the problems shown in the movie are the only reasons.
It keeps them out of the streets, being affected by (and joining in) crimes.
Mac the KNife
Member
Crossing Detroit's city limits is like night and day.
The blame is on parents, per se.
If a kid grows up in a shit neighbor hood and isn't taught to read or write properly, then has kids, what happens at that point?
It's a really fucked cycle that's only exaggerated by the fact that you have single parents working more than one job or who don't have the financial ability to get tutors for kids that need them. Hell, some of these kids don't eat daily and we're pissed they can't read?
Shit is bad in Detroit. Really, really, really, really bad. I have family that lives out there who deals with it daily. Shit, my aunt had the wheels, stock I might add, stolen off her car four separate times with and the cops just can't shit.
We can place all the blame we want on parents, but when an entire fucking city is having issues with both public and private services, we need to look at the bigger picture on what society needs to do versus individuals.
Shao Kahn Going Shopping
Banned
Thankfully there's at least a system of checks and balances, and ways to review and change everything EXCEPT for your parents.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Where did I say that?
HamPster PamPster
Member
Its sucks to see people in this thread write off the 10% succeeding on some level because of everyone else. Even if 90% of the students/parents suck a functioning school should be there the ones that want it and need it
Not everyone can just pack up and move
Not everyone can just pack up and move
Do you spend a lot of time in Detroit? I live pretty damn close to it but the only time I've ever down there is for the occasional hockey game.
Seems like an interesting place, would like to spend more time down there but I'm not exactly sure what I'd do. Cruising around the neighborhoods doesn't seem like the greatest idea.
True. But arguing about the things we cannot change in order to justify not adjust the things we can is a foolish endeavor.
Charoncaori
Member
Holy hell, I can't imagine what their classes must be like.
- vastly underfunded schools
- issues with gangs and other things that encourage kids not to attend class
- a culture in low income areas that discourages academics altogether
- zero parental involvement
- teachers who are afraid (sometimes rightly so) of their students, and who would rather socially promote kids than deal with conflict
Lots of problems. A lack of respect for adults by stuudents (and burnt out apathetic teachers) doesn't help matters.
Unfortunately, by grade 11 it is way too late. If a kid is operating at a grade 2 or 3 level by grade 9, they will never catch up unless they have almost exclusive 1 on 1 tutoring/instruction and that will never happen due to budgetary restraints.
Not sure how much suing the schools will help (I would guess that it will help very little), but the schools do need some major reforms, starting with the 4-5 year old kids just starting out.
- issues with gangs and other things that encourage kids not to attend class
- a culture in low income areas that discourages academics altogether
- zero parental involvement
- teachers who are afraid (sometimes rightly so) of their students, and who would rather socially promote kids than deal with conflict
Lots of problems. A lack of respect for adults by stuudents (and burnt out apathetic teachers) doesn't help matters.
Unfortunately, by grade 11 it is way too late. If a kid is operating at a grade 2 or 3 level by grade 9, they will never catch up unless they have almost exclusive 1 on 1 tutoring/instruction and that will never happen due to budgetary restraints.
Not sure how much suing the schools will help (I would guess that it will help very little), but the schools do need some major reforms, starting with the 4-5 year old kids just starting out.
I went to Michigan public schools from grades K - 8. It was a very small, rural town on the western side of the state (about 2 hours from Chicago). The schools were relatively new, well funded, uncrowded, and the teachers were great.
Sounds like this is more of a Detroit thing to me.
Sounds like this is more of a Detroit thing to me.
I met some good people in college this last year from the east side of the state that swear Detroit isn't nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Still don't believe them to this day.
Shao Kahn Going Shopping
Banned
I do not recommend that course of action.
Yeah. It's really borderline unfixable. Between all the issues on the surface, we also have an unfortunate culture that encourages these kinds of things.
Big Baybee
Member
I have family in Detroit and Pontiac. I love going up there and spending time in the hood. The city is in a terrible state......This is coming from someone from Louisiana.
Hari Seldon
Member
Maybe, but is it better to have some discipline and give these kids an education or to keep throwing teachers, who are trained for suburbia style teaching, into the fire in order to fail another generation of kids?
Imo, these inner city schools need to start recruiting African American army and police officers who want a career in teaching. They need some role models that will give these kids some tough love. Literally anything is worth a shot as long as generation after generation of kids are not going down the prison/gang route.
BannedEpisode
Member
This is a god damn shame.
How does this even happen?
How does this even happen?
Keru_Shiri
Member
I mistakenly read the thread title as 10% illiteracy rate and was still horrified.
I think the answer has to be that everyone is failing these kids. The teachers aren't getting through. The parents may not be able to be involved enough living in poverty (more likely to have longer hours, more likely to have multiple jobs, etc). In addition the students probably feel like they're in a hopeless environment so they're more likely to give up.
I think the way you fix this... frankly I don't think you CAN fix it all at once, some of the older kids may be unreachable at this point. But you have to start young. First step, any teacher that has a class full of non-proficient students should be monitored more closely to make sure he or she isn't the problem. Second, I think that more funding should be given NOT to the teachers or the schools alone but to after school programs.
I believe that some parents can't be as involved as they like because of circumstances beyond their control. Fund programs where kids can go and be with someone in a healthy environment that ALSO offers tutoring services for those that are struggling (but gives kids a snack and some down time too) after school.
I think that parents have to have SOME level of involvement too. Offer parents of every grade level the ability to track their child's progress online. Have the teacher post every assignment online the day it is assigned so parents can access it if they choose. I think that ALONE would be a benefit.
Give students a better environment to succeed, give them the tools they need, and give parents the ability to help keep their kids on track, but also make sure teachers are held to account too.
The problem is that the school is a hood school. That's the problem. These schools need real security. When I was in school you didn't want anyone else to know that you actually did the school work. And I would imagine that things have only gotten worse since the 90's with gangs in these schools and what not. I hate to say it, but these schools need better security, strict dress codes and whatever else it would take to turn them around. They also need more money put into them.
Outstanding. Teachers only care about the kids. *slow clap*
Military for most of them, I'm sure.
Drugs, back-alley prostitution, crime for others.
You people make me sick.
You are so invested in preserving this mental fiction that there is no systemic or societal problem that disadvantages black people in the United States, that your immediate reaction to a school with these types of failure rates is to blame the kids and blame their parents.
It couldn't possibly be the school, it must be because black kids or black parents are lazy or stupid or don't care about education or bettering themselves. Because that's really what you're talking about when you say "well there's plenty of blame to go around" or some such nonsense. We're not the idiots you think we are.
Let's drop the fucking pretense. I'm sick of dancing around this shit.
By the way do you see the youtube comments on the video? Top ones:
And you know what? I actually like those comments more than the bullshit that's being spouted in this thread. At least those idiots are open and honest about what they're actually thinking and feeling.
Your veneer of civility isn't fooling anyone.
Fuck off.
You are so invested in preserving this mental fiction that there is no systemic or societal problem that disadvantages black people in the United States, that your immediate reaction to a school with these types of failure rates is to blame the kids and blame their parents.
It couldn't possibly be the school, it must be because black kids or black parents are lazy or stupid or don't care about education or bettering themselves. Because that's really what you're talking about when you say "well there's plenty of blame to go around" or some such nonsense. We're not the idiots you think we are.
Let's drop the fucking pretense. I'm sick of dancing around this shit.
By the way do you see the youtube comments on the video? Top ones:
And you know what? I actually like those comments more than the bullshit that's being spouted in this thread. At least those idiots are open and honest about what they're actually thinking and feeling.
Your veneer of civility isn't fooling anyone.
Fuck off.
Blood Diamonds
Banned
Holy. Shit.
I mean, I believe the Science portion, but reading? Really? Social Studies? Come on.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Charter Schools often fucking suck ass. Philadelphia has proved that quite well. It was the right move.
Most likely some guy who jerks off to Milton Friedman (whose not bad at all) in the bathroom while check dailypaulist.com
hahaha, well at least you aren't saying this in mississippi
teruterubozu
Member
That's assuming they can afford internet access.
The problem is that parents who can do something about it, usually move out of the neighborhood.
You people make me sick.
You are so invested in preserving this mental fiction that there is no systemic or societal problem that disadvantages black people in the United States, that your immediate reaction to a school with these types of failure rates is to blame the kids and blame their parents.
It couldn't possibly be the school, it must be because black kids or black parents are lazy or stupid or don't care about education or bettering themselves. Because that's really what you're talking about when you say "well there's plenty of blame to go around" or some such nonsense. We're not the idiots you think we are.
Let's drop the fucking pretense. I'm sick of dancing around this shit.
By the way do you see the youtube comments on the video? Top ones:
And you know what? I actually like those comments more than the bullshit that's being spouted in this thread. At least those idiots are open and honest about what they're actually thinking and feeling.
Your veneer of civility isn't fooling anyone.
Fuck off.
I was thinking the same thing. I would highly recommend never reading the comments on youtube videos, though.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Youtube comments aren't a good measure of anything except that racists, trolls, Ant-Semites, Ron Paul* supporters have very little else to do
*Don't think I'm saying that to be an ass, but look at anything that could involve Ron Paul seriously people spam the crap out of things to focus on their L. Ron.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Keylime
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
You're literally the first person to mention the word "black" in this thread, dude.
...or is that your point?
These are great ideas. Also, I think that it is about time when society needs to look at classes as classes and not a bunch of individuals stuck together for a few years. There needs to be better incentives for the students to take it seriously, to not fuck around and pick on those that seem to focus and actually want to learn. Give rewards to class averages when passed, make sure that it is not just a few kid doing okay and others horribly then call it a day. Have someone watch over these kids and make sure they are not creating a hostile environment for themselves (hell, I would think that even higher standing schools need to implement a system like that).
Yup. Ready fun little statistic folks?You people make me sick.
You are so invested in preserving this mental fiction that there is no systemic or societal problem that disadvantages black people in the United States, that your immediate reaction to a school with these types of failure rates is to blame the kids and blame their parents.
It couldn't possibly be the school, it must be because black kids or black parents are lazy or stupid or don't care about education or bettering themselves. Because that's really what you're talking about when you say "well there's plenty of blame to go around" or some such nonsense. We're not the idiots you think we are.
Let's drop the fucking pretense. I'm sick of dancing around this shit.
By the way do you see the youtube comments on the video? Top ones:
And you know what? I actually like those comments more than the bullshit that's being spouted in this thread. At least those idiots are open and honest about what they're actually thinking and feeling.
Your veneer of civility isn't fooling anyone.
Fuck off.
This is as of 2000.
Race
One race 929229 97.68%
White 116599 12.26%
Black or African American 775772 81.55%
American Indian and Alaska Native 3140 0.33%
Asian 9268 0.97%
Asian indian 2827 0.3%
Chinese 912 0.1%
Filipino 951 0.1%
Japanese 188 0.02%
Korean 217 0.02%
Vietnamese 393 0.04%
Other Asian 3780 0.4%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander 251 0.03%
Native Hawaiian 46 0%
Guamanian or Chamorro 45 0%
Samoan 64 0.01%
Other Pacific Islander 96 0.01%
Some other race 24199 2.54%
Two or more races 22041 2.32%
OVER EIGHTY PERCENT BLACK IN DETROIT. Come on folks, at what point are we going to stop pretending that this something we can just pawn off on the parents from our PCs in our suburban homes.
Sure, I'm not saying that's an ideal catchall answer, it would help though.
And if the parents' reading level isn't any better?
These problems don't just magically appear.
edit:my bad.
As I said, if mommy and/or daddy (single parent homes) can't read that good either what are they supposed to do for their kids?
But hey, they're just not working hard enough.
Mac the KNife
Member
I live in Warren, off of 8 mile in what I'd consider to be a pretty good neighborhood. I work in Detroit quite often, usually downtown, but last year a documentary project brought me into some of Detroit's worst areas. Little islands of civilization exist around a vast sea of broken-down, burnt-out vacant homes and buildings. This website shows a bit of what I'm talking about as I would certainly not recommend cruising through the neighborhoods of Detroit.
The Now & Then of Cass Tech is incredible.
I met some good people in college this last year from the east side of the state that swear Detroit isn't nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Still don't believe them to this day.
While all major cities have their bad areas, the sheer size of the city puts Detroit in a class of it's own. I'd recommend the Downtown to just about anyone, however, it's a fairly safe place with plenty to do.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Maybe they should not have kids and focus on improving themselves?
Keylime
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Help me understand what you guys are freaking out about again? You're upset because no one is painting this as a race issue...but you think they all are they just aren't saying it?
Where the hell did race come from?!
How exactly does telling someone to shut the fuck up help in this discussion?
Meh, I don't see how 10% literacy rate is an impressive enough output to shun any help that the city needs. It's not like those teachers are keeping the money away from the city because of the sake of the kids.
It came from the fact that this is a racial issue. Are you naive enough to think that this shit would be allowed to happen if the school was 90% white?
SquiddyCracker
Banned
I thought it was a 10% illiteracy rate, which is pretty bad in a western country, but that it's actually a 90% illiteracy rate is mind-bogglingly insane.
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