Riposte
Member
Wow, invoking "Mary Sue" incorrectly lol. You are really going for it.
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Wow, invoking "Mary Sue" incorrectly lol. You are really going for it.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I thought JGL was awesome as Blake/"Robin". He's pretty badass, dedicated, a kindred spirit to Bruce in a way, honestly seems to believe in justice. Him, Gordon, and Lucius would continue to make a badass team when the Batman is needed again.
I liked him in both movies. Then again, I like the guy in everything lol
Same here. He is just terrible and I wish he and Jeremy Renner would go away. Thankfully, the Robin thing was just a fanservice thing Nolan shoehorned in at the end and we won't actually have to see him playing a superhero anytime soon.
I can't imagine WB not considering doing a Robin movie with him. The guy's profile is growing (500DoS, 50/50, Inception, TDKR, Lincoln etc.) and it would be like printing free money if they kept the budget reasonable
I don't think anyone would be excited for a Robin movie.
And you're right, if Hollywood thinks that Jeremy Renner should be a leading action star, then literally anyone can, including JGL.
and at least jgl at least looks like he can do things that require stamina.
I know most people weren't paying attention... But those 3 all fulfilled the role of Robin.
I would be. Robin and Nightwing are my favorite superheroes
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Well you would be wrong. I certainly wouldn't be excited at all, but judging by the reactions in my cinema and around the web, there would be plenty that would be out in droves day one.
Same thing in my theater too. Biggest applause in the entire movie was that scene. Some people here are under-estimating JGL's popularity. He's been in popular tv shows since he was a kid and is a super-likeable guy.
The Storyteller
Member
Oh shit, that was me.
So the Batman reboot in a different universe doesn't clash
Or maybe JGL's character becomes The Batman (Batman Beyond) in the DC Cinematic Universe...
NullPointer
Member
Him tossing the gun didn't feel earned. Neither did his tossing of his badge. Just another checkbox ticked off on his way from beat cop to Bat-buddy. It's like most of the movie really.
Even from the beginning where Alfred talks of his dream of seeing Bruce and a wife on some vacation. That moment dragged on so long you just knew that was going to be the ending.
Also, the scene where Bane read from Gordon's unspoken speech just felt like some of the most flat and uninspired cinema. Yeah, this guy is your hero? Well I have a piece of paper here, and yeah, and that's why you should join my armed dudes attacking the prison! Uhhh... what?
And when bad girl dies, all it elicited out of my crowd was a bunch of muted chuckles.
So I guess all the rich folk in Gotham are dead now? That's one silver lining I guess, since they all seemed like assholes.
That and "fear is good". Great. Ok.
The Storyteller
Member
I'm already turned on.
If Tom freaking Cruise can be a badass in movies, JGL will do fine
Razgriz-Specter
Member
The mobile one looks kind of cool.
The Storyteller
Member
Wait, I thought this meant you were in Sydney!
Sleepover with hot chocolate and Katee's nice legs canceled.In the mean time, track down that dudebro, he sounds awesome.
... And on topic, yes, I could see JGL as a Terry McGinnis-esque Batman archetype. He obviously does not have the physique for a Bruce Wayne Batman, though.
planar1280
Banned
ryutaro's mama
Member
Why is Korey so salty on a movie that he gave a 7/10 to?
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I think to him a 7/10 is the lowest score you can give to a movie.
Because I enjoyed watching it, but as a movie it has tons of problems. Also, I gave Spider-man a 7/10 and it's not worse than that. I'm going by the American grading system, a 7 is a C. It's not bad enough to be a D.
It's a movie of missed opportunities and disappointments.
Just as one example, the JGL becoming Batman's successor thing would have been so much better if he was at least in TDK and not just a random brand new character that Batman met for a total of fifteen minutes in his life.
It should have been carefully set up through the franchise and paid off satisfactorily in the third movie. That's the theme of this movie. Nothing pays off satisfactorily. It's very messy, and things don't make sense. The last act takes place over five months, and the way it's executed is just sloppy.
Another example is the Twist. In the movie it happens so suddenly that at the time it happens you might think "wow, did not see that coming! Cool." But when the movie ends and you think about it, the twist is completely nonsensical, wasn't necessary, and doesn't really go anywhere. You didn't see it coming because maybe this was a movie that didn't need a twist. It also completely trivializes the death of the main villain of the other 95% of the movie. Remember the scene in the Avengers where
Agent Coulson's
Wouldn't that require Bruce to be cripple,old and unfit to take up the mantle? Not to mention Batman Beyond takes place in a far more futuristic time.
Retcon to continue the Nolanverse.
FYI: Batman Beyond was the planned movie before Nolan took over with Batman Begins
ThisWreckage
Banned
Nolan's biggest problem is that he develops an uncontrollable hard on for certain actors and he shoehorns them into his work. The Coen brothers reuse a lot of actors as well, but one gets the feeling that they never write parts with certain actors in mind. That's not the case for Nolan.
I don't buy that Robin will be a proper successor to Batman. To be fair, I wouldn't have bought it no matter what they did. As far as I'm concerned, Bruce is THE Batman. I don't buy that anyone who loses their parents can just pick a costume and do what he did. The only successor I ever accepted was Terry McGinnis and possibly Dick Grayson in the comics, but Terry's circumstances were extraneous and Dick had all everything he needed justify his postion as Batman, such as life long training by him.
To be fair, JGL and Nolan wrote it as well as they could. Speaking objectively, they didn't really do a bad job. We see that the kid is smart, good hearted, has similar origins to Bruce, and already knows how to fight, and has similar morals. As far as potential successors go, this kid is as good as we could hope for. But it's just not the same. Bruce trained for atleast more than 12 years to be batman and nothing else. He trained with Ra's al Ghul in the League of Shadows, modern day ninja's. I can buy that Blake can hold his own. I can't buy that he's anywhere near batman's level, which is the level that's required to be expected to dress up in a costume and go fight gangs armed with guns.
And what about his resources? Wayne company is only starting back up from near bankruptcy and Lucius had all his R&D tech stolen by Bane. He has whats in the cave, but how is he going to resupply for long term? Can he even access everything that's in the cave? I'm sure Bruce would have stuff hidden, just in case. He is Batman, afterall. Or, hey, what his own finances? Bruce was insanely rich, so he could pretty much do what he wanted aside from the occasional obligatory party he had to keep up appearances. Where is this kid going to get money for food or housing? If he has a day job, where will he find the time to sleep?
And his allies? Gordon might back him, but the kid is alone otherwise. The first time he faced scarecrow, Bruce got burned alive and poisoned with fear gas. He needed Alfred to come get him and Lucius to make a formula for the cure. Alfred's off in retirement and he was only ever loyal to the Waynes. There is no reason for him to back Robin. Lucius might, but only if he is convinced that he was the replacement, which...how would he know? I don't think Bruce told anyone that Robin was his successor. Bruce needed those connections, otherwise he'd have either died after the first week or just gone entirely insane chasing down criminals and fighting other insane people. Rachel and Alfred and Gordon and Lucius were all necessary to make Batman work without him losing his humanity. Even if I accept everything else, who does Robin have to keep him safe at night?
Let me emphasize that I do think that they did as a good job with the idea as it was possible within this context. Bruce needed to stop being Batman, but Batman as a symbol had to remain, so a successor was needed. To make Robin a better fit than what he was would be implausible. It all just comes down to the fact that Batman was created not just because his parents were killed, but also because he was someone who was so broken by this one incident that few other people could believably have his kind of resolve to do what he did. He was also lucky to be born so rich that he had the finances to supply himself the way he did. And he had the loyal friends that were there when he needed them to be. A rare person with rare status surrounded by rare people. The stars aligned when Batman was born and Robin, good guy though he may be, is not Batman.
To be fair, JGL and Nolan wrote it as well as they could. Speaking objectively, they didn't really do a bad job. We see that the kid is smart, good hearted, has similar origins to Bruce, and already knows how to fight, and has similar morals. As far as potential successors go, this kid is as good as we could hope for. But it's just not the same. Bruce trained for atleast more than 12 years to be batman and nothing else. He trained with Ra's al Ghul in the League of Shadows, modern day ninja's. I can buy that Blake can hold his own. I can't buy that he's anywhere near batman's level, which is the level that's required to be expected to dress up in a costume and go fight gangs armed with guns.
And what about his resources? Wayne company is only starting back up from near bankruptcy and Lucius had all his R&D tech stolen by Bane. He has whats in the cave, but how is he going to resupply for long term? Can he even access everything that's in the cave? I'm sure Bruce would have stuff hidden, just in case. He is Batman, afterall. Or, hey, what his own finances? Bruce was insanely rich, so he could pretty much do what he wanted aside from the occasional obligatory party he had to keep up appearances. Where is this kid going to get money for food or housing? If he has a day job, where will he find the time to sleep?
And his allies? Gordon might back him, but the kid is alone otherwise. The first time he faced scarecrow, Bruce got burned alive and poisoned with fear gas. He needed Alfred to come get him and Lucius to make a formula for the cure. Alfred's off in retirement and he was only ever loyal to the Waynes. There is no reason for him to back Robin. Lucius might, but only if he is convinced that he was the replacement, which...how would he know? I don't think Bruce told anyone that Robin was his successor. Bruce needed those connections, otherwise he'd have either died after the first week or just gone entirely insane chasing down criminals and fighting other insane people. Rachel and Alfred and Gordon and Lucius were all necessary to make Batman work without him losing his humanity. Even if I accept everything else, who does Robin have to keep him safe at night?
Let me emphasize that I do think that they did as a good job with the idea as it was possible within this context. Bruce needed to stop being Batman, but Batman as a symbol had to remain, so a successor was needed. To make Robin a better fit than what he was would be implausible. It all just comes down to the fact that Batman was created not just because his parents were killed, but also because he was someone who was so broken by this one incident that few other people could believably have his kind of resolve to do what he did. He was also lucky to be born so rich that he had the finances to supply himself the way he did. And he had the loyal friends that were there when he needed them to be. A rare person with rare status surrounded by rare people. The stars aligned when Batman was born and Robin, good guy though he may be, is not Batman.
I would think that if they do give him his own movie, it'd be as Nightwing.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Blake could simply continue Batman's detective work rather than actually engaging in combat with thugs. The movie did kind of stress that with Blake figuring out Batman's identity and Gordon promoting him to detective among other things.
I doubt they'd base a movie around that concept though.
Saw this last night and while I definitely thought it was good, overall I was pretty disappointed in it. It's probably easiest for me to just list my pros and cons...
Pros:
Cons (while a lot of these sound like nitpicks, cumulatively they really affected the quality of the movie for me):
Like I said before, I did enjoy it, but it just hasn't lived up to the hype for me.
TDK > BB > TDKR
As a side note, I'm a little ashamed to admit that I had a quick look round the to see if I could spot any suspicious looking people before the film started.
Pros:
- I thought the ending was wrapped up fairly nicely, what with Batman dying but Bruce Wayne living on. However, I thought it could have been improved dramatically by ending it on Alfred's nod. On the other hand of course, the idea that the last shot was actually the "new" Dark Knight rising on the platform, while not particularly subtle, serves its purpose competently. Alfred at the grave
- Anne Hathaway. Pleasantly surprised by both her performance and her role in the film; it was one of my biggest worries going in but I enjoyed the majority of her scenes and she pretty much nailed the cat burglar-to-damsel in distress transitions.
- Bane. Carried a very weighty presence on screen and was genuinely intimidating. It's a bit of a shame this could only be a 12A; I do think Bane as a character would be helped immeasurably by a higher rating, but that's obviously not practical.
- Batman/Bane 1v1 fisticuffs. Probably the best fight scenes from the whole trilogy, both the sewer scene and the mask scene were fantastic, with the former being a particular highlight - the lack of music was a perfect choice.
- JGL's character. Not entirely sure why I liked him, and I agree that most of his jobs in the movie could have been performed by Gordon but he never felt particularly out of place and I found myself enjoying any of the scenes he was in, especially the bridge scene.
Cons (while a lot of these sound like nitpicks, cumulatively they really affected the quality of the movie for me):
- I hated how the climax of the film essentially broke down into "holy shit let's get rid of this bomb". It just felt so uninspired and as the ultimate climax to a trilogy, fell kind of short for me. Someone earlier in the thread posted this gif and it's definitely relevant:
- Bruce/Talia and Batman/Catwoman relationship. The Bruce/Talia one was the worst culprit, it was just completely unbelievable and in turn, made the twist at the end fall completely flat: "Oh, here's this character who Bruce has fallen in to bed with for some unknown reason and has had about 3 scenes in the entire movie OH WAIT SHE'S A BAD GUY-oh wait I don't care." I much preferred thinking that Bane was the main threat of the movie/the one who climbed out the pit. However, the reveal that he didn't climb out the pit had the potential to be a lot more powerful than it turned out to be.
- Too many coincidences/conveniences. The worst offender probably being JGL just knowing Batman's identity because he's "seen that look before," it felt horribly contrived. Little things such as HOW THE FUCK DOES BATMAN GET BACK INTO GOTHAM? Were jarring too.
- Sound mixing. The two most striking issues I had with the mix were the score, and Bane's voice. Not much needs to be said on the score other than it was TOO FUCKING LOUD at times, especially over dialogue sequences. Zimmer's gud doe. And Bane's voice: I didn't mind the actual voice after adjusting to it a little bit, but the mix made it sound like he was talking in another room/over a speaker or something; when he was making a speech or something it was fine, but in conversation with other people it sounded terrible and again, took me out the experience.
- Lack of creative set pieces was a bit disappointing too. Nothing particularly similar to the pencil trick from TDK either and considering those little flashes of quirk and brilliance are generally my favourite parts, I felt a little let down.
- Nolan still struggles with action scenes; the shooutout with the spec ops guys being a particular low spot.
Like I said before, I did enjoy it, but it just hasn't lived up to the hype for me.
TDK > BB > TDKR
As a side note, I'm a little ashamed to admit that I had a quick look round the to see if I could spot any suspicious looking people before the film started.
All your points about Blakes lack of training and lack of resources (waynetech) I think could actually make for an interesting different direction for a future batman film, working on foot for most of the time, with limited resources and actually making mistakes as he learns. Like in BB when scarecrow sets him on fire.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Maybe a good Nightwing film. As I explained, I'm biased in this regard. Bruce IS batman. I accept no substitutes. But even speaking objectively, right now, if Blake went through a similar situation like Scarecrow's toxin, then he'd have died on the roof because he has no one to call on or make an antidote. There would have to show him developing his connections and finding resources before he could even attempt being a believable replacement for batman.
It's not about intelligence, it's about recall. My whole family saw BB a few years ago but they didn't remember who Ra's or the League of Shadows were, the clumsy callbacks were needed (though they still didn't work very well). A seven year gap from BB is a long time to forget stuff, that's if they even saw the movie. A lot more people have seen TDK than have seen BB. While TDKR was satisfying for me, it wasn't that satisfying for my family, they just didn't get a lot of it.
bobs...onGaf
Member
Out of interest, what caused the cartilage injuries? He didnt injure himself that badly at the end of TDK right?
8 years of furious masturbation explains the elbow.
I love batman but I'm not that purist about it, I'd be interested in seeing new and different takes on it and to me it makes more sense to "reboot" the franchise in this manner than just flat out replacing the actor as they've done previously or with the bond movies.
Now that I think about it the whole situation is very comic booky, characters dying, new ones rising and taking their place, previous storys and situations actually carrying through to the next, unlike previous batman incarnations where the storys have been relatively self contained and arcs finalized in each installment.
Seeing blake struggle to become batman, make mistakes, fall. Only to redeem himself and rise to the challenge in the end would be quite an interesting new trilogy. The weight of bruces batman legacy on blake alone is an interesting dynamic to explore, living in his shadow.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Bruce isn't even the best person to wear the suit in the comics.
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