REMEMBER the dArk knight rises UnmaRked spOileR threAd | You only legend once

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I'm all for the trademark Nolan mid-conversation silent flashbacks. Possibly my favorite recurring technique in his films for their effectiveness and concision.
 
duckroll said:
It's not about having faith in the audience, it's about having respect. Making a movie based on faith on the audience means you're making something for the lowest common denominator. Having respect for the audience means you expect that some people will not get it, but you are rewarding those who do.

If a filmmaker has less respect for the audience, then the audience who gets it should have less respect for that director. It's not a deal breaker but it is an annoyance nonetheless.
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Eh, I understand where you are coming from but the majority of people seeing this movie probably wouldn't have remembered the previous scenes well if it wasn't for the quick flashbacks.

They are obviously implemented for the mass audience. There are more people seeing this film who just want to see a summer blockbuster in comparison to the number of hardcore Batman fans.
 
Solo said:
It was obvious to me because they actually filmed that scene without Bale first. Had they not shown it, and Alfred just spoke about it, I would have been surprised.
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Agree completely here. Showing it the first time around totally took away from the actual ending. Would've much preferred to have it done this way instead of what we got.
 
Some people went to watch TDKR without watching any of the two prior films and wonders why the movie didn't end after 2 hours. Unfortunately TDKR is not an indie film, reality sucks!
 
Ignatz Mouse said:
I didn't mind the flashbacks at all. They were short and unobtrusive, and in Mrs Mouse's case at least one came in handy.
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Some of them were nicely placed (Two-Face intercut with Gordon eulogizing him). Some of them were really clunky (Gordon putting Thomas Wayne's coat on Bruce directly after Bruce just referenced that very scene).
 
Things I saw coming:
- Bane is not Ra's son. (Bane said when he left the Pit, he was already a man.)
- Miranda is Talia. (The League mark on her back, plus too much comic book knowledge.)
- Cafe scene. (Way too telegraphed by the visual imagery.)
- Bruce faking his death with the autopilot. (Nolan wouldn't kill Batman like that if he really wanted to, it would have been something more personal.)

Things I didn't see coming:
- The Pit prison. (Interesting sort of "replacement" for the Lazarus Pit. I didn't expect them to have a big non-Gotham set in the movie.)
- Bane actually breaking Batman's back. (Seemed too obvious, didn't think they would go for it.)
- "Robin." (Such a corny and really.... crappy throwaway final line in the film. Just bad. Also, I was expecting him to take over as Nightwing instead. I guess that's still possible.)
 
Things I saw coming:

- Pretty much everything. :( Honestly. I tried to blackout as much as possible, but yeah. I knew about Talia, I knew Catwoman killed Bane, and I knew about Ra's cameo, thanks to the fucking BBFC.

I was expecting Alfred, Gordon or Lucius to die though. REALLY surprised they didn't. Didn't expect the back-breaking either, especially with the famous line of dialogue. Didn't know Wayne would lose his fortune - that was interesting.
 
demosthenes said:
Have you not read this thread? At least 10 people think Bruce was dead at the end. A bunch of people didn't know Bruce fixed the auto pilot. A bunch of people didn't realize that Gordon was SURPRISED at the light being fixed. At first I took these complaints as yea, he should have faith in his audience, but after reading this thread? No. Absolutely not.
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youre talking about 2 different situations though: understanding what is happening right in front of you and remembering a single scene of a movie from 7 years ago.
 
Solo said:
Some of them were nicely placed (Two-Face intercut with Gordon eulogizing him). Some of them were really clunky (Gordon putting Thomas Wayne's coat on Bruce directly after Bruce just referenced that very scene).
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That's the one that helped her out. She didn't know what Batman was talking about (not having seen Begins since the BluRay dropped).
 
The flashbacks lasted for perhaps 3 seconds of total screen-time, and these films aren't made for a niche audience of fans who have seen BB and TDK several times over the years, or even necessarily at all.

In Two-Face's case they were particularly effective because they were interspersed with Gordon going around parading a false, fresh-faced version of Dent.
 
richisawesome said:
Things I saw coming:

- Pretty much everything. :( Honestly. I tried to blackout as much as possible, but yeah. I knew about Talia, I knew Catwoman killed Bane, and I knew about Ra's cameo, thanks to the fucking BBFC.

I was expecting Alfred, Gordon or Lucius to die though. REALLY surprised they didn't. Didn't expect the back-breaking either, especially with the famous line of dialogue. Didn't know Wayne would lose his fortune - that was interesting.
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Really glad they didn't. If Alfred died I would have gone into depression lol.
 
I have a question from TDK that maybe you guys can answer. When Gordon said at the end of the last movie, the famous "5 of them dead, 2 of them cops", what/who was he referring to? I thought he was talking about Dent but how would he know who Harvey killed? Besides, I only remember him killing 2 people (the old fat cop and Meroni's limo driver. He flipped a coin and spared Ramirez, the other cop). Aside from his attack on his family, what evidence did he have that Dent was a murderer?
 
Things I had spoiled:

Miranda is a badguy (though, amazingly, I never had her pegged as Talia) thanks to a Heroclix game piece released a month ago with the keywords Spy, Martial Artist and a reference to Hidden Talents.

JGL is a successor of some sort, thanks to frikking FB poster I barely know (and who is unfriended now).

Also, John Blake is secretly a badguy also thanks to a Heroclix piece, and this one really baffles me completely. The game piece makes him out to be a double agent with underworld ties. Based on an early draft? Or just a mistake?
 
Ignatz Mouse said:
Also, John Blake is secretly a badguy also thanks to a Heroclix piece, and this one really baffles me completely. The game piece makes him out to be a double agent with underworld ties. Based on an early draft? Or just a mistake?
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I think they were getting intel from Deadly Monk.

Dabanton said:
I had read somewhere that Lucius died so when that tunnel flooded i was like oh No.

Luckily he made it out :)
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Lucius was in danger more times than anyone else. Alfred had buggered off, and Gordon was only in trouble whilst on the ice - and Batman turned up just in time. Lucius had a really fucking terrible time.
 
Zeliard said:
The flashbacks lasted for perhaps 3 seconds of total screen-time, and these films aren't made for a niche audience of fans who have seen BB and TDK several times over the years, or even necessarily at all.

In Two-Face's case they were particularly effective because they were interspersed with Gordon going around parading a false, fresh-faced version of Dent.
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I think you might be overestimating how useful most of the flashbacks actually are. It doesn't matter what audience the film is made for. When a cinematic technique is used poorly, it bothers me, because it lowers my impression of a scene immediately. It takes me out of the film.

If it is truly so important that people who never watched the previous movie can fully understand the movie, then the movie would not have scenes built on the foundation of referencing previous scenes in the past movies. It's not hard to do that.

Nolan made a conscious choice of having scenes which are meant to specifically reference events which happened in the previous movies, either in script or in visuals, and yet he couldn't let those reference stand on their own. He had to force-feed the exact comparison to make sure people get it. That's a sign of weakness.
 
Ignatz Mouse said:
Things I had spoiled:

Miranda is a badguy (though, amazingly, I never had her pegged as Talia) thanks to a Heroclix game piece released a month ago with the keywords Spy, Martial Artist and a reference to Hidden Talents.

JGL is a successor of some sort, thanks to frikking FB poster I barely know (and who is unfriended now).

Also, John Blake is secretly a badguy also thanks to a Heroclix piece, and this one really baffles me completely. The game piece makes him out to be a double agent with underworld ties. Based on an early draft? Or just a mistake?
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0717-joseph-gordon-levitt-gq-1.jpg
 
duckroll said:
I think you might be overestimating how useful most of the flashbacks actually are. It doesn't matter what audience the film is made for. When a cinematic technique is used poorly, it bothers me, because it lowers my impression of a scene immediately. It takes me out of the film.

If it is truly so important that people who never watched the previous movie can fully understand the movie, then the movie would not have scenes built on the foundation of referencing previous scenes in the past movies. It's not hard to do that.

Nolan made a conscious choice of having scenes which are meant to specifically reference events which happened in the previous movies, either in script or in visuals, and yet he couldn't let those reference stand on their own. He had to force-feed the exact comparison to make sure people get it. That's a sign of weakness.
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Thank you.
 
Im so glad I saw so many spoilers, especially ones that contradicted each other.
everything I saw turned out to be fake except Talia & Ra's.
Going in I had no clue what was actually going to happen, I was surprised alot.
 
dummydecoy said:
The entire JGL as Robin shit ruins the ENTIRE Trilogy for me. FUCK.
Looking forward to the reboot. God damnit.
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...but he's not Robin. His real name is Robin, which was a wink and a nod at fans always hoping for Robin or predicting JGL was Robin, but he's not actually 'Robin'.

He is Bruce's successor though.
 
The Talia and Ra's rumors were always going to be true anyway. I feel it's a perfect way for Nolan to close his book on the Batman universe. That was Batman's origin in his universe, and it makes a fitting end. I really liked that aspect of the script.
 
duckroll said:
I'm just going to pretend that he becomes Nightwing, and his name being Robin is just a stupid fanboy nod, probably suggested by Goyer! Lol.
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Goyer would have named him Tim Drake or Dick Grayson instead. That is more of a fanboy nod instead of Robin. Robin was a nod to the people that don't know Robin's secret identity.
 
duckroll said:
If you write a movie which requires detailed prior knowledge of other films to work, and you cannot communicate those points to people without using terribly handled flashbacks, it is a poor choice to begin with. That's a fact.
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The movie is part of a trilogy. The story arc that span 3 movies over 8 years. 5 second flashbacks for intricate references are not ruining the movie for anyone. Get off your high horse.
 
PhoncipleBone said:
Goyer would have named him Tim Drake or Dick Grayson instead. That is more of a fanboy nod instead of Robin. Robin was a nod to the people that don't know Robin's secret identity.
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I guess that's fair. I just want to sling some shit at Goyer for old times sake, but I guess I can just wait for Man of Steel for that. :)
 
duckroll said:
I guess that's fair. I just want to sling some shit at Goyer for old times sake, but I guess I can just wait for Man of Steel for that. :)
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Why wait? Just go watch Blade 3 and have all the shit slinging you need. :)


Monumental said:
The movie is part of a trilogy. The story arc that span 3 movies over 8 years. 5 second flashbacks for intricate references are not ruining the movie for anyone. Get off your high horse.
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His, and my, issue is how poorly the flashbacks were done.
 
Zeliard said:
I like how quick he was to forgive her after she betrayed him and caused him to suffer in agony at the hands of a hulking terrorist and be imprisoned in a hole for months. The Dark Knight "rises" indeed.
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Batman asked Selina to lead him to Bane. Selina was going to be killed if she did not bring Batman to Bane.

I think that Batman asked to be lead to Bane, nullifies her guilt. Sure she locked the gate behind him, or did she?( can't tell if another did it), but

Batman was going to fight Bane regardless, not run away. He had no idea what he was up against at this point.

Results would have been the same regardless.
 
duckroll said:
I'm just going to pretend that he becomes Nightwing, and his name being Robin is just a stupid fanboy nod, probably suggested by Goyer! Lol.
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JGL's inclusion in the film was already grating my "ITS THE NOLAN CAST EVERYBODY!" nerves, but then for him to take so much screen time, just work out who Batman was because its that easy, reveal his name is Robin in the stupidest way possible and then just get given the mantle of next Batman just made him into an absolute total Gary Stu. Definitely the absolute worst aspect of the movie by far. That he's 'the dark knight' that rises as suggested by the title then showing after the final shot just had me leaving the cinema with a distinctly "ugh" sentiment.
 
Monumental said:
The movie is part of a trilogy. The story arc that span 3 movies over 8 years. 5 second flashbacks for intricate references are not ruining the movie for anyone. Get off your high horse.
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Yes, expecting more out of a talented director is being on a high horse. I apologize. I should not expect much out of Nolan, he's just an average director. Sorry.
 
JoeInky said:
I'm glad I watched it in IMAX after seeing this:


I never actually knew the difference between regular widescreen and IMAX was so vast, I'm assuming the DVD or Bluray will be in widescreen and not IMAX? Do TV's even go to IMAX resolution for a reasonable price yet?
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If you have the TDK bluray, you will see parts of the movie go full borderless too.
 
Flashbacks didn't bother me. They were blunt, but not too bad. They felt alright to me.

I only wanted more Batman in the movie, and less OWS stuff.
 
How are the flashbacks poorly done? They are extremely brief, cut like a 'flash' of a memory.

No drawn out voice over framed by flashback sound effects or any cheese like that.

The best kind of flashback IMO.
 
I felt the Dent flashback was the only bad one, and that was because the CG looked kinda goofy for some reason. I did not remember it looking that odd, and I had just watched TDK a few days ago.
 
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