RepairmanJack
Member
Karma vendors would be the main place. But there is also the mystic forge and Crafting. Stat increases will mostly come from the gems(forget what they're called) and upgrade slots.
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Guild Wars 2 Launch Date announced: August 28th, 2012
- Thread starter Mr. Luchador
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Karma vendors would be the main place. But there is also the mystic forge and Crafting. Stat increases will mostly come from the gems(forget what they're called) and upgrade slots.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
At least in the beta, I was finding drop rates were pretty good, along with karma vendors. I was well geared for almost everything relying on just those two.
It's not a terrible idea to take up crafting to fill in the gaps, but I doubt it'll be necessary.
It's not a terrible idea to take up crafting to fill in the gaps, but I doubt it'll be necessary.
BattleMonkey
Member
But you said you don't need to grind or random drops. But that is what the game does still. You get random drops outside of quest rewards, and purchases of other stuff requires generally money or karma grinds.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
The entire time I played through the beta, I didn't use the karma vendors at all (mostly because I didn't know about them), and relied only on drops. My gear was largely just fine.
Besides, you should be filling out hearts as you do events, since some overlap. You don't even have to grind it. Do some, leave and do another, come back and do it. Whatever. It's all good. Doesn't really matter what you do. You'll find the gear you need.
Sir Abacus
Member
Mystic Forge or bought from vendors.
I amassed money and karma while simply playing the game - I never grinded. Hell, I hardly repeated the same events more than one time.
...
I think your definition of 'grind' is enormously broad.
Quadrophenic
Member
As far as I am aware, the items which require massive amounts of karma are special because of their cosmetic appearances, not the stats.
It is my understanding that max stat items are easy and plentiful to acquire at the max level.
The question that was asked is if there is a loot treadmill. My understanding of the term "loot treadmill" is that in order to get the best items in the game at level cap first you have to repeatedly do one tier of level cap repeatables (say story dungeons) over and over until you are adequately geared to do the next tier (explorable dungeons) over and over until you are adequately geared so that you can do the next tier (t1 raids) and so on and so on. As far as I am aware, in GW2 the max statted items will be available before that, and the only reason to work through the dungeons is to acquire cosmetic sets.
If my definition of loot treadmill is wrong, then I approached the question wrong and provided wrong information. If loot treadmill simply means that you have to work in some capacity to achieve the max-stat gear, then yes. You will have to level up to 80 and use the acquired gold and/or karma to purchase the item, or get lucky with a drop. If you want a freebie max statted item, you can join sPvP and use the items given to you in sPvP.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I actually enjoy completing renown hearts, so I do do them, but if there's an event in the area, I just go do that instead. Honestly, I just do whatever. I travel around. I dive into lakes and kill shit. I do hearts. I do events. I do vistas. I do skill challenges. I might just go to a different zone and wander around.
My roommate admitted he was playing the beta like WoW, and he felt sort of lost at times, and totally underleveled. I explained how I was playing, and it kinda blew his mind. I was also way higher level than he was, playing for pretty much the same amount of time.
My roommate admitted he was playing the beta like WoW, and he felt sort of lost at times, and totally underleveled. I explained how I was playing, and it kinda blew his mind. I was also way higher level than he was, playing for pretty much the same amount of time.
I didn't even do that. Anytime I saw a karma vendor, I bought anything that looked interesting. It was never even a thought - nor did I ever feel that I was somehow challenged by the game due to my lack of this or that weapon or armor.
EDIT @ thetrin: I'm the same way.
EDIT #2: I think this game is really good for people who don't give a shit about long-term goals or objectives. People need to stop thinking so much.
If he's going to play it like WoW tell him he can go to the other starting zones for more hearts.
RepairmanJack
Member
I don't think there will ever be a problem with karma. Money maybe, if you play a lot of WvW. With Karma besides the first couple levels I never had too little. I ended the event with something like a little over a thousand unused karma.
I don't think you are understanding me. I'm not looking for gear, I get where gear is coming from. I'm talking about other things that keep people interested and keep them looking for stuff. Things like the treasure maps that were talked about long ago, things that you don't wear, salvage, or ship off to the bank.
Without little things to keep an eye out for loot can sometimes just seem tedius. Pointless if you aren't bothering with crafting.(I am myself, I'm just going off how it felt during the BWE when I wasn't.)
I never had to "grind" for anything. You get loot based on completion of specific events - you get a choice at what loot you would like. Generally it's a choice between 2 items and you get a guaranteed 3rd.
Meaning - for dungeons - upon completion of a dungeon - you get to choose your reward, not "oh please oh please oh please I killed SUPER DRAGON X 9 times already and still haven't gotten my axe! that's 9 weeks of grinding!".
Whenever you complete a dungeon - you get loot no matter what. The system rewards the player for playing, not wasting countless hours doing the same thing for something that can, technically, never drop.
RepairmanJack
Member
Oh, and mobs need more damn XP! The fact that they give so little XP just makes me want to avoid them even more unless they deal with an event or heart.
Think that's the point.
Enemies drop crafting ingredients which makes them a roundabout way of earning XP
I don't think they do at all. Between everything you can do in this game for XP and how much XP it all gives - I wouldn't care if enemies gave 0 xp.
I found myself dead-even with content after 10 levels while only touching 2 story quests and not touching WvW, sPvP, crafting, etc.
I basically stuck with hearts, events, exploration. I didn't over-kill anything - i engaged in battle outside of events to basically unlock weapon skills. I probably should have killed more for crafting mats but since I didn't pick up any crafting skills - i didn't need to.
I imagine that if I participated in a tad bit of any type of PvP, worked on my story more, did some crafting and other activities I would be out-leveling content. I'd rather enemies drop a bit more gold than XP
RepairmanJack
Member
I hope not. The sevond half of the sylvari zone was definitely lacking in events. I understand not wanting people to grind levels, but the little XP just makes it a game of running from event to event. It does the exact oposite of promoting exploration.
I don't believe there are any areas which "lack" events. You have to remember lots of events are triggered - so if you're just standing around waiting for something to happen - you're doing it wrong.
Interact with the world and NPCs and you will see events unfold before you. In short, play the game. Don't go out of your way to look for a yellow exclamation mark - this isn't other MMOs - engage with the world - that is how it is intended.
Sir Abacus
Member
Buy it, craft it or wait for it to drop.
You can buy the gear off the AH since it's not soulbound for the most part. But if you want to be able to produce gear for your characters at-will you will need crafting maxed out.
Keep in mind internally the game represents gear like so:
Armor type (Defense stat)
Insignia type (Base Stats)
Upgrade Slot (Rune/Sigil/Jewel)
With white armor you get the armor type, no stats.
When you get blue armor as a drop you usually have a random minor insignia "crafted" (already embedded) into it when the loot is rolled up and an upgrade slot making them equivalent to non-master crafted items.
When you get a masterwork piece as a drop it'll have an upgraded version of the insignia "crafted" into it and it'll also have a rune/sigil/jewel already in the upgrade slot.
So when you craft a piece of gear up it's the exact same gear as a drop you could get at the equivalent level, it just allows you to 100% customize the insignia and upgrade used instead of relying on a random dice roll.
This is most visible when you enter The Mists. When you get in for the first time the first thing you'll usually do is go craft up a gear set with the special crafting NPCs (with no level/crafting ability requirement) using the max level bases, insignias and runes/sigils/jewels available.
I thought the same too. I might've missed some quest chains or something but I dunno. I don't think even that was enough.
Exactly there's no shortage of exp in the early zones that's for sure. There's so much to do. If all you're doing is going to a heart to the next heart to the next.. then ya you're going to run out quick.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I did. I tried to break him out of that anyway, and I succeeded. After a while, he realized "Man, this is really not fun to play like this." After just wandering around, he ended up having more fun with it. That said, when I was playing with him, it was boring as hell. I was just following him around as he played it like WoW, and at one point, I just said "alright dude, you do whatever. I'm gonna go explore. This is boring as hell."
Another friend of mine tried the beta at my place, and did the same thing. He was like "Where do I go next?" It's a deeply ingrained paradigm of thought that needs to be broken, and I can understand why it's such a difficult habit to break.
In fact, I think Arena needs to do a better job of guiding players to explore, rather than play it systematically, like WoW. Right now, the tutorails are poorly done. They tell you how to play the game at a basic level, but they don't actually tell people how to explore the world, and how everything gives you EXP. Even during the last BWE, I was wandering around with some gaffers, and saw plenty of other people just playing the game like WoW.
The game does a poor job of communicating to the player what there is to do other than go from heart to heart to heart. At times, I wasn't really sure what to do either. Sure, everything gives you EXP, but the game doesn't tell you how you trigger events. "Just go explore" is poor direction.
After pretty much cleaning out Plains of Ashford, I had to go to other areas to find stuff to do. Almost no events triggered for a long time, and I was forced to go elsewhere to find things to do. The event density in Plains of Ashford needs to be retuned. There simply wasn't enough to do other than grind hearts at times.
In comparison, there was way more to do in Metrica Province, because events were occurring all over the place constantly.
RepairmanJack
Member
Trust me I am doing a lot more than just running from heart to heart and event to event. I 100% the human area the first beta weekend and played for almost 40 hours and never even left the human starting area. I never ran out of things to do. With the sylvari it was the exact opposite. 10 hours and I was level 11(underleveled for any new content I found) with very little to do. I explored like crazy did everything I came across.
This is not just a case of not understanding the game. The Sylvari area was great for the first 8-9 levels, but then it dropped off completely.
Weltall Zero
Member
Sorry!
I know they're a chore to read, but since I'm in Spain, I'm sleeping or working during the boards' high hours and a lot of stuff accumulates that I want to reply to...I felt the exact opposite; I was drowning in loot, and could only be thankful that the game gives so many ways to make use of it (salvaging/Mystic Forge/giving to alts). Crafting also meant that I could consistently make top stuff even a few levels above my own.
LISTEN TO THIS MAN! This is "How to enjoy GW2 and have your live changed 101", in two paragraphs!
All I can say is... listen to thetrin! There's more to PvE than Hearts and Events!
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
There's plenty to do, but the onus is on Arena to make that visible to players. They need to be aware that WoW's playstyle casts a large, far reaching shadow, and enjoying GW2 requires a serious paradigm shift.
I felt the same way, at first. It was a bit of a shock to my recent MMO days (5 85s in WoW) but found it nostalgic when I got the hang of it. I actually appreciate the system. Today's MMOs spoil the gamer by holding their hand too much, IMO, as soon as I dropped into my Dragon Warrior (NES) mindset it was smooth sailing.
I actually appreciate the fact that the game doesn't give you X,Y coordinates for everything you need to do. It gave me a sense of fulfillment and accomplishment that I hadn't felt in years when exploring, when finding what I needed to find without someone holding my hand.
It was jarring in the beginning but I dig it. A friend of mine and I had this conversation a few months back in regards to RPGs - we shot back and forth about older RPGs and how they almost punished the player for not paying attention to their surroundings and clues other NPCs had to offer you to help you on your quest. I don't feel GW2 punishes you for not paying attention to the world around you - but there is a definite sense that you need to rely on your own instincts in the world vs being told exactly what to do and where to do it.
It's a welcome change for me.
Hmmm... I haven't fully explored all starting zones since I wanted to save them for launch... then this could be simply a matter of content - someone else who has completed these zones would be better suited to comment.
I apologize, I misunderstood your previous post.
RepairmanJack
Member
:lol I don't post in one GW2 thread regularly and everyone thinks I don't understand the game. Now I understand how everyone who lodged a complaint about the game felt...
The fact that I got enough experience to go through the zones and never ever did any crafting tells me that everything will be fine (at least for me and my play-style). I love crafting, and I expect it to be one of my primary activates come release. Everything you do counts towards your exp bar, so I'm not even slightly concerned about being underleveled.
I expect a lot of complaints from people rushing to the cap, claiming no end-game and shit like that though. If you are playing the game trying to get to 80 as fast as possible because you believe the game's most interesting activities should unlock there you are going to be severely disappointed. This is a game where, unless you want to play a specific event or zone, doesn't care about your level to begin throwing the good content at you. There's still a big amount of linear progression for sure, but you don't get penalized if you are "left behind", so no reason to rush anything. Levels will come, just DO stuff. If you can't carry on with your personal story, go find something else to do!
I expect a lot of complaints from people rushing to the cap, claiming no end-game and shit like that though. If you are playing the game trying to get to 80 as fast as possible because you believe the game's most interesting activities should unlock there you are going to be severely disappointed. This is a game where, unless you want to play a specific event or zone, doesn't care about your level to begin throwing the good content at you. There's still a big amount of linear progression for sure, but you don't get penalized if you are "left behind", so no reason to rush anything. Levels will come, just DO stuff. If you can't carry on with your personal story, go find something else to do!
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I don't think you understood my post. I was saying the opposite of what you think I said.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Is there a good guide (I know we are still in beta) that kind of explains this philosophy and how to play like this in GW? Honestly, I was having the same issue as your friend: Going from heart to heart, then running out of hearts at level 5 or 6 and feeling like I was just playing completely inefficiently and aimlessly.
Sir Abacus
Member
Two words: Asura gate.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
That's another thing the game needs to do. It needs to point players toward Lion's Arch sooner rather than later, so people know they can go to other race starter zones from minute 1. Knowing that will give people a lot more to do at low levels.
I still think the low level zones need event tuning. Event density seems to be much higher in higher level areas, and by that point, a lot of players have been programmed to get their leveling from hearts predominantly. There's no shortage of events in lvl 10+ zones, but there need to be more events in lower level areas to get players into the habit of doing events over hearts.
I still think the low level zones need event tuning. Event density seems to be much higher in higher level areas, and by that point, a lot of players have been programmed to get their leveling from hearts predominantly. There's no shortage of events in lvl 10+ zones, but there need to be more events in lower level areas to get players into the habit of doing events over hearts.
Hmmm... then... I honestly don't know what you were trying to convey. My bad.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I was saying that there is a ton to explore, and it's up to you what you want to do, but the game does a poor job of communicating to new players that they can explore and do what they want. New players just assume hearts are like WoW quests, and play the game like that, which is a disservice to the game, which rewards exploration over systematic quest completion.
It's Arena's job to break people out of that habit, and if the BWE is any indication, they're not doing a very good job. They have this amazing game system set up, but few people are taking advantage of it because Arena isn't doing a good job of making people aware of it.
I wasn't saying the game needs waypoints and guiding. I'm saying the game needs to communicate the following in a straight forward manner: "go explore! Find your destiny! Do whatever you want! Everything gives you EXP! Don't play this systematically! Seek out adventure! Seek out danger!"
What is the consensus on the Thief?
From what I read, it seems a class with many issues that needs a lot of reworking
Liked it a lot on sPvP, didn't try it anywhere else and probably won't ever. (Sorry for the not so useful post
)I agree with this. The fact that only guides are the scouts and those only point you to the hearts around that level zone makes things worse. They are banking on people finding stuff for themselves, but a quick sequential explanation of all the activities (even side activities like stuff in towns and mini games) would help a lot. I found out how crafting works due to a youtube video, while in-game I only could figure out like half of it.
One of my closest friends playing in the Beta... He didn't get it. I hung out with him the most during the weekend, trying to help him figure this out. He would run up to enemies and wail on them with his great sword, never dodging and really not paying attention to red circles or anything else. The problem is, ANET made the early levels so much damn easier that this style of play didn't immediately get him knocked on his ass. In fact, it worked just fine the first few levels...
Around 12 or so, it seemed there were fewer zergs at the DEs, meaning that the end mobs would focus on him. And he'd go down. Again and again. I asked him, "Are you using dodge?" "Not really," he replied. "You really need to." "Yeah."
He kept going down. Finally he'd get frustrated and log off for a few hours.
The sad thing is that he's an enormously smart guy; I'm talking crazy smart. He's played every MMO that I have. The only difference between us is that he excelled in WOW, whereas I never cared for it. It played well, but I didn't find its focus on questing and raids appealing.
In the end, playing with him in GW2 was very taxing; it was literally tiring because I felt that I was having to handle everything and keep him alive and keep him moving forward. And worse, it felt like he wasn't even trying to learn anything about the game or how to play it - as if I were babysitting him or something. He didn't seem to get that I could only do so much and that he was vulnerable.
I really hope he catches on after launch because it really depressed me during a time in which I was enjoying myself and finding all this cool shit in the game.
Around 12 or so, it seemed there were fewer zergs at the DEs, meaning that the end mobs would focus on him. And he'd go down. Again and again. I asked him, "Are you using dodge?" "Not really," he replied. "You really need to." "Yeah."
He kept going down. Finally he'd get frustrated and log off for a few hours.
The sad thing is that he's an enormously smart guy; I'm talking crazy smart. He's played every MMO that I have. The only difference between us is that he excelled in WOW, whereas I never cared for it. It played well, but I didn't find its focus on questing and raids appealing.
In the end, playing with him in GW2 was very taxing; it was literally tiring because I felt that I was having to handle everything and keep him alive and keep him moving forward. And worse, it felt like he wasn't even trying to learn anything about the game or how to play it - as if I were babysitting him or something. He didn't seem to get that I could only do so much and that he was vulnerable.
I really hope he catches on after launch because it really depressed me during a time in which I was enjoying myself and finding all this cool shit in the game.
RepairmanJack
Member
What is the consensus on the Thief?
From what I read, it seems a class with many issues that needs a lot of reworking
From my experience it's only big issue is the steal mechanic and dropping conditions. Other than that they are great. I also think they need an extra weapon to handle support/defensive skills, but that's not major at least to me.
His point was that what you (and he) are describing is a result of flawed design; it isn't ArenaNet's intention that sentiment exist at all, it is only a side effect of them failing to teach the player properly.
Should it thought? I mean... is the starting area for your race not supposed to be enough? By design, it should be. If there is a lack of content in a specific area then it needs to be addressed with content, not telling the player they should go to other starting areas, that defeats the purpose of a race-specific starting area, IMO.
However, I feel that there should be something more to guide the player in the beginning. I see some people claiming they've done every bullet-point on the map and are under-leveld while others are 2/3 of the way through and already past the zone's level. That, to me, says that more guidance should be given to those just jumping into the game that aren't so quick to adapt to the game's design.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Honestly, the more MMOs you've played, the harder adjusting to what GW2 has to offer, and that might be an unexpected side effect for Arena Net. They may not have realized it, but by being so different, fresh and unique, they've actually forced themselves into a position where people don't "get" the game because it's not the same as what they've played.
It's ironic, when you think about it. The very thing that should make GW2 appealing might hurt it. People want something different, but they have a hard time with things that aren't the same.
I get you now ha! I'm not the brightest bulb if you folks haven't figured it out yet
You seem plenty smart to me. I think you just jumped the gun a bit.
I agree there, but the variety in hearts and events offered by several different zones is something that made low levels a lot of fun for me. I'm not saying it's required, but it makes leveling more fun when you can constantly change your scenery.
But yes, the lower level zones could use higher event density.
RepairmanJack
Member
The problem is that in some cases it's not a reward and it's becoming a requirement or even not enough. If I like exploring and looking for random things to do and not running from event to event and heart to heart I should be overleveling content and finding extra goodies and hidden things. Not underleveled in some cases and contemplating going to other zones. Human and Norn zones I think handles this perfectly. Sylvari I think did a bad job of it after a while. I just think the zone is too large and everything is too scattered.
At launch I'm taking him to Lion's Arch and we're running around and just exploring the place. If he doesn't enjoy that place, I think he's just screwed.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Completely agree. Plains of Ashford and Caledon Forest do a poor job of saturating the area with things to do early on. In comparison, Metrica and the Norn starting zone have plenty to do.