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[Palabrah]

Holy hell. It sounds like the session awakened some dormant feelings about a past situation, it doesn't make sense any other way.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Buckle up guys.

So today was our second time together and we hung out at my place. Which she sugessted even and I did not. I picked her up, threw in a bluray and we watched a movie on my PS3 in my room. Having known that this was the plan to hang out and watch a movie days prior, I purchased some stuff like drinks(non alcoholic) and snacks. We sat there watching the movie and I put my arm around her after fighting with myself as to whether I should or not. She smiled and reciprocated. We talked a bit throughout the movie and I mentioned how the kiss the other day was unexpected on a first date, but that it was nice. At this point she took my arm off her shoulder and pushed me onto the bed, kissing me. I was a little confused, but definitely excited. (Although I did not want to go any further and was ready to tell her that. Let me reiterate. I could have slept with many women thus far but have always been a hopeless romantic.) We giggled a bit and out of nowhere she started rubbing up against me and being very frisky. I grabbed her hand and moved away a bit and tried to sit back up. She pushed me back down and started biting my neck, ears, etc. So yeah, at this point I was obviously very aroused and pardoned myself. She laughed it off and said: "It's okay. It's fine if you get hard". She kept fucking going and going, as we made out heavily. I didn't do much though since I was nervous and because I just didn't want to continue mentally. She then took my hands and placed them on her chest and lowered herself down so that my hands pushed into her breasts. I asked her if she wanted me to go on and she said "Yes". We continued making out and she fucking went insane. Like nails, teeth, all this shit.

Now obviously a total noob like me would be overwhelmed by this, and I truly was. It was exhilarating but scary in a way. Finally I pushed her off as I had put some food on the stove and our litle session had made me forget all about it. Of course I was seriously "risen" at this point and didn't feel comfrotable walking into the kitchen where a room-mate might be. She jumped off the bed, took a swig of her iced drink and kissed me again. Telling me "That'll cool you down". Yeah, no, it didn't. Anyway I went and turned the stove off, came back with the food and we ate while talking. After we finished I finally kissed her and I swear on the holy ghost itself, gently brushed her back with my hand as we lay down. She reciprocated and lunged into me, wrapping her legs around my waist and all. My hands went to her hips and she said "Not any lower...unless you ask". To which I said "Okay...may I?". She said yes and put them there herself. Then out of nowhere she grabbed my butt and I laughed, asking her what happened to asking first. She said, and I quote: "There's things that I want to do to you, that I may not want you to do to me." At this point I was just deep in lust and laughed it off. While my mind feebly screamed: "What?!".

I was a perfect gentleman the entire time. A lot of people in real life and even some of you guys on GAF can attest to that. I won't even stare at a woman if she's wearing something skimpy without making eye contact first at least. My mom did not raise me to mistreat women in any way and I have sisters. I would never want any guy to treat them badly or anything either. So I always treat women close to me very well. And especially so if they're a potential love interest. Any-time I touched her I always asked first. So much so at one point she said: "Are you going to ask every time?". I could easly have dominated her physically, but I did not once force myself on her in any manner. I gave her full control for the most part and only ever chimed in when she bit too hard or when I felt that we were going to far. The entire time I showered her with compliments(truthfully) and was very gentle.

So after our weird tryst was over(About two hours in length of non stop making out). My alarm went off, reminding me that I had to get to work soon. I pushed her off(Gently) and told her that I'd had fun, but had to get to work. Saying how I wished we could stay in bed all day, but that for now I had to work. She pushed me back down and straddled me, scratching my abdomen and biting my neck. I told her that I seriously had to go and would drop her off. She swung a leg off and laughed, kissed me agan and said some other day as she lay back. I quickly grabbed my work clothes from the hangers and helped her up.

SHE THEN SAT AT THE EDGE OF THE BED. PUT HER HEAD UP AND LOOKED AT THE CEILING. SIGHING.I asked her what was the matter since I could see her eyes getting watery and her face turning red. She slumped over, face in hands. At this point my energy high and arousal just died like nothing and I dropped my clothes, walked over and just hugged her. Asking what was wrong. Kissed her forehead, absolutely fucking confused. THIS WAS MY SECOND DATE EVER. WHY WAS THE GIRL CRYING?! I thought maybe she had some family issue, personal issue, etc, I didn't fucking know. I soothingly coaxed it out of her and she said this, THIS!:

AND. I. FUCKING. QUOTE. Because Lord knows that I'll never forget:

"JUST BECAUSE WE'RE MAKING OUT, DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU GET TO DO WHATEVER YOU WANT WITH MY BODY. I'M NOT JUST FOR YOU TO POP."

What. What?? What?! My heart sank like the fucking Titanic and there was this... immeasurable wave of filth that just washed over me. I immediately let go of her as I sat dumbfounded. Never in my life have I ever felt so guilty and dirty. The way she looked at me, her posture, her eyes; I felt as if I'd just raped someone. Taken something incredibly private from them. I'd basically touched and seen everything from the waist up and now I felt so powerfully that I'd just violated her. Guilt. Guilt was all I could feel and guilt is STILL a large part of what I feel now. This woman was someone that I was starting to care about, that I'd spent my free time talking with and getting to know. That I'd allowed into my house warmly and into my bed. The only woman who's ever shared a bed with me. And now I quite literally felt like a monster who'd lured her in and violated her.

I didn't know what to say. She just sat there whimpering and I clasped my mouth with both hands, mind racing. Finally I blurted out a weak "sorry" and put my arm around her. Reassuring her that I would never treat her as a sexual tool, have never treated any woman that way; and that in the future, I'd always ask before doing anything again. She sniffled some more and I gently ushered her up and out. We got in the car and as I drove her home, my face must've been ashen. I truly felt as if I'd broken some sanctimonious trust. But my mind was slamming into my vision, and as I drove, I straight up said: "What did I do wrong?". And this is the point where I went from guilt to guilt bordering on anger: "It..it's just that when I do something to you. It's because...I want too. But the way you touched me at times, I felt as if you were trying to take advantage of me."

I had damn near half my mind to slam on the brakes and just stare at her. HOW IN THE GLORIOUS FUCK?! Me? Me?! The guy who you'd spent an entire day talking and hanging out with, trading stories, agreeing on pretty much every moral standing, THE GUY WHO'D TOLD YOU FIRST THAT HE WANTED TO TAKE THINGS SLOW AND WAS IN NO RUSH TO HAVE SEX? That guy?! I didn't fucking know that making out was considered having sex! Anyway. I dropped her off and went to work. My mood has been a mess since.

Never have I been so close to a woman before and never have I seen or felt the things I did today. But. I don't fucking understand how that makes me a monster for giving into my physical urges to a point. The point of "DO NOT HURT HER IN ANY WAY". Everything that she did to me, I never took offense too. I corrected her if it was too much or inappropriate at this stage, but I did not guilt trip her about it. Is this not what we're supposed to discuss? Boundaries and whatnot? So what the fuck is the problem?!

Here is what I'm going to do: I'm going to talk to her and explain very warmly that we perhaps took it too far too fast and did not set boundaries well enough.(Even though we did...). I will apologize again for any inappropriate touching(During a fucking makeout session??) and tell her that perhaps for now, it'd be best if we were cordial friends.

I'm sorry guys, but this type of reaction is a bright red danger sign; even to me. I'm thinking that maybe some guy tried to force himself on her in the past or something based on her breakdown. I'm not certain. But I certainely won't and can't deal with this much drama in my first relationship. It's not even that I could/will talk to her about this. It's the fact that when and if I see her again, I'm going to feel...betrayal? And anger. Because as much as she went insane about this, I too opened a very intimate and private side of myself to her as well. I screwed up by trusting her too fast with my body and letting the physical side escalate so quick. She's the one who made all the first moves physically and I'm the one who had to keep reassuring her that I really did want to know her and that it'd be weeks or months before I desired intimacy. Yet now I'm the one feeling like utter shit.

I literally feel as if I'd dirtied my hands. Not in my feelings, but in have simply touching her. And I just can't see how fearing touching the person you care about and hurting them because of that is anything that a novice like me should be dealing with.

Fuck.

Dude, gigantic red flag. I would drop that girl like a fucking ebola soaked rag.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Yeah, dude, bail.

That's too much for anyone starting out.

 

[Devolution]

Crush Dance: She sounds like a rape or attempted rape victim. There's only so much you can do if it makes her uncomfortable and she won't talk it out with you. If she wants this relationship tell her that she needs to trust you.

 

[CrushDance]

Crush Dance: She sounds like a rape or attempted rape victim. There's only so much you can do if it makes her uncomfortable and she won't talk it out with you. If she wants this relationship tell her that she needs to trust you.

This is the worst thing about it. I really do like her. We played some PS3 games, she played Mass Effect 2 incredibly well...everything was great. Being so close to her physically WAS very nice. But I have this feeling of "You're a jackass if you bail" because something is telling me that somewhere in time, she got hurt real bad. And I want to help her through that. To make her happy. But the adage of "You can't change someone" and my logical self is telling me not to pursue.

This is such bullshit. I know how I still feel, but I know what's for the best. I'm worried that if I don't take this on, some other guy will and she'll be used or whatever. I'm considering going the friends route and just being there for her and seeing how it goes instead of cutting her off suddenly. I'm worried that she might do something stupid. <---But This. THIS! Is totally unfair to ask myself to be some sort of anchor for someone I barely know!

 

[Arjen]

Buckle up guys.

Long story

BAIL THE FUCK OUT bro.
Sounds like she has some major issues with physical contact.
From what i'm reading you did absolutly nothing wrong, hell i admire your patience and willpower. And she turns it into blaming you? Who knows what she wil do when she feels bad and you did actually had sex.

 

[Log4Girlz]

This is the worst thing about it. I really do like her. We played some PS3 games, she played Mass Effect 2 incredibly well...everything was great. Being so close to her physically WAS very nice. But I have this feeling of "You're a jackass if you bail" because something is telling me that somewhere in time, she got hurt real bad. And I want to help her through that. To make her happy. But the adage of "You can't change someone" and my logical self is telling me not to pursue.

This is such bullshit. I know how I still feel, but I know what's for the best. I'm worried that if I don't take this on, some other guy will and she'll be used or whatever. I'm considering going the friends route and just being there for her and seeing how it goes instead of cutting her off suddenly. I'm worried that she might do something stupid. <---But This. THIS! Is totally unfair to ask myself to be some sort of anchor for someone I barely know!

Dude, you're not going to be the one to help her out, you may just get burned real bad. She needs to see therapist.

 

[CrushDance]

Dude, you're not going to be the one to help her out, you may just get burned real bad. She needs to see therapist.

I know you're right. I just feel so disgusted with myself. Defiled is the word. I have never, ever! Let anyone into my room before. I honestly feel like she violated my trust in her. I can't even stand to look at my bed right now. Why in the world should anyone feel that way after experiencing such a thing with someone? Fuck! I'm buying new sheets. I just want to forget this woman so damn bad right now. All that kissing, touching...makes me sick just thinking about it. What the fuck is wrong with her that she couldn't just tell me? I have no problem stopping! I told her from day 0 that I expected nothing from her and wanted nothing. She initiated all of this and then crushed every thought I had so suddenly. It's infuriating.

The good thing I can say about this though is that having broken that physical barrier has made things easier for me. Dating isn't marrying someone. It's not a big deal. I'm just pissed that my first kiss went to someone so distraught that they can't even trust the person in-front of them. I wanted to listen. TO just be there for her and go through this together, wherever it may have led. I honestly had nothing but good thoughts for her!

But it's okay. Because I literally don't see what the big deal is any-more. For that alone, I'm grateful. I won't be afraid to touch women any longer.

 

[ZombieFred]

Yeah CD, for your sanity and health sake you need to bail out. Take this as a boost of confidence that soon in your life you will meet someone else who apreciate you and not have issues. Don't put this burden on yourself. Tell her she needs to seek help and there's not much you can do but wish her luck and thank her for the dates you had.

 

[wormstrangler]

Should have fucked her. Stop asking permission for every single touch.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

I know you're right. I just feel so disgusted with myself. Defiled is the word. I have never, ever! Let anyone into my room before. I honestly feel like she violated my trust in her. I can't even stand to look at my bed right now. Why in the world should anyone feel that way after experiencing such a thing with someone? Fuck! I'm buying new sheets. I just want to forget this woman so damn bad right now. All that kissing, touching...makes me sick just thinking about it. What the fuck is wrong with her that she couldn't just tell me? I have no problem stopping! I told her from day 0 that I expected nothing from her and wanted nothing. She initiated all of this and then crushed every thought I had so suddenly. It's infuriating.

The good thing I can say about this though is that having broken that physical barrier has made things easier for me. Dating isn't marrying someone. It's not a big deal. I'm just pissed that my first kiss went to someone so distraught that they can't even trust the person in-front of them. I wanted to listen. TO just be there for her and go through this together, wherever it may have led. I honestly had nothing but good thoughts for her!

But it's okay. Because I literally don't see what the big deal is any-more. For that alone, I'm grateful. I won't be afraid to touch women any longer.

Leave this short, albeit unhealthy, relationship knowing that you did not do anything wrong. You have no reason to feel disgusted with yourself, nor defiled, it just sounds like she might have some issues and they unfortunately were taken out on you.

Don't feel so bad about your first kiss either, she probably does like you a lot, but like I said, she has some personal issues that makes it hard for her to express her attraction to you (or accept reciprocity). I wouldn't go so far and say that she has experienced rape or attempted rape, but that might be a possibility - regardless, you are not equipped to handle her issues.

You can in theory be a friend to her, but that might just result in something like this happening again as the two of you would probably cross the line. Or she might end up attempting to express her attraction to you while you are friends as she might now think that she doesn't have to worry about reciprocity. Either way, you are probably better attempting to distance yourself from her, and let her know that while you truly do like her, you don't want her to get hurt again.

Oh, and do broach on the subject of therapy, without trying to offend her.
Examples:

"Would you like to talk about this? I know this counselor [call it a counselor even if it is a therapist, it's a word that's not as much associated with craziness] that's really good".

Shame that your first proper romance turned out this way, but these things happen.

 

[The Incarnation]

Should have fucked her. Stop asking permission for every single touch.

Sounds like if he did he would be in a cell right now accused of rape.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

A few things to consider Crush-

1) Very possible something traumatic happened to her in the past like Dev said. The reaction out of nowhere is a clue.

2) Also possible that maybe she wanted more intimacy but didn't know how to express it. Maybe she wanted to have sex but since social norms kinda looks down on females that have those thoughts, she felt dirty inside because she seemed to want it more than you did. If that's the case, she probably took her frustration out on you. This one you have to be careful about, because if it's #1 then obviously assuming it's #2 really hurts your cause.

3) I'd recommend either being in a relationship with her or getting far away. If you're going to help, you probably have to do it as a boyfriend. Otherwise one of you is going to develop feelings for the other. If it's her and then you get a new gf, she'll REALLY have trust issues with guys. If it's you and she gets used/abused by a new guy... well that'll definitely hurt you too.

 

[ZombieFred]

Shame that your first proper romance turned out this way, but these things happen.

It's true, I've got a good story on something similar about this kind of scenario that happened to me.

I was relaxing at a club in the early hours of the morning and my friends were leaving and I bumped into this girl and we started talking. I helped walk to a path she needed to get home and I gav her my number and we had a nice passionate kiss in the rain under a lamp and then went our seperate ways. Soon after when I am near my house I get a call from her and she seemed a bit confused on where she is and got a taxi and said if she could crash at mine and I had no problems with it. Met her outside my house, gave her some money and something to snack on when inside and said she could have the bed and I'll sleep downstairs. Not long after she come and started heavily coming onto me and said for me to come up with her and I replied only if she wanted it and she did. After our little fun she started to act so different and then freaked a little and said she needs to phone her ex as she misses him. She was on the phone crying for twenty minutes talking to him about how she was wrong and he was right and I am like "what the fuck". She apologised for the behaviour and then soon went on her way when I phoned for a taxi.

So be warned, you can get some weird girls and you will. I've not had any problems with the ventures I've had after but I have made sure on asking their intentions before coming back to mine from that crazy moment months back haha.

 

[Hypereides]

Part of me believes she was playing out some fantasy, the other, believes youre possibly getting pulled into some mind game.

Or like SmokeMaxx said, she might have some trauma or emotional luggage.

This chick kinda reminds me of the seductress girl Im dating, but I kinda see through past those facades.

Tread carefully. Its like being colorblind whilst trying to defuse a wired bomb. I dont think shes the relationship material youre looking for.

Also, you can still be a rough gentleman... so stop asking for permission every single time.

...Never in my life have I ever felt so guilty and dirty...

wat

 

[Minamu]

I can't stress this enough, do not try and fix her. It's not your job and it cannot be done by anyone but her and professional help. Believe me, I've tried to and it stole almost two years of my life and absolutely nothing good came of it. Like you said, you shouldn't have to deal with this stuff in your first relationship. Bail.

 

[Hypereides]

Shes got some issues, alright... but I dont think shes alone on that. I kinda get the impression Crush is carrying some weights of burden aswell.

 

[Minamu]

Shes got some issues, alright... but I dont think shes alone on that. I kinda get the impression Crush is carrying some weights of burden aswell.

Even more reason to step away perhaps then.

Spoiler

I feel like we're getting trolled sort of. It sounds a bit too bad to be true, almost. Suspiciously well-written too. Maybe it's just me?

 

[SuperEpicMan]

Hey, I have been going out with this girl for just about two months, she is moving into her new flat and I have been wondering what I could get her as a kind of housewarming/show of my affection gift. I don't think she would enjoy a plant much because it probably would die lol, but I want to get her something, because I haven't really gave her any gifts up to this point. Her moving into a new house seems like a good excuse to treat her with something, I just don't know what.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Hey, I have been going out with this girl for just about two months, she is moving into her new flat and I have been wondering what I could get her as a kind of housewarming/show of my affection gift. I don't think she would enjoy a plant much because it probably would die lol, but I want to get her something, because I haven't really gave her any gifts up to this point. Her moving into a new house seems like a good excuse to treat her with something, I just don't know what.

Get her a really comfy heart shaped pillow for her bed/couch.

 

[Sarye]

crushdance, first of all.. something I've learned is to NEVER apologize for something you didn't do. Even if it causes more tension. It just reinforces to her that she's right in her thinking.

second, echoing everyone here.. yeah she has issues from her past. It is not your job to fix her.

 

[Jackben]

This is the worst thing about it. I really do like her. We played some PS3 games, she played Mass Effect 2 incredibly well...everything was great. Being so close to her physically WAS very nice. But I have this feeling of "You're a jackass if you bail" because something is telling me that somewhere in time, she got hurt real bad. And I want to help her through that. To make her happy. But the adage of "You can't change someone" and my logical self is telling me not to pursue.

This is such bullshit. I know how I still feel, but I know what's for the best. I'm worried that if I don't take this on, some other guy will and she'll be used or whatever. I'm considering going the friends route and just being there for her and seeing how it goes instead of cutting her off suddenly. I'm worried that she might do something stupid. <---But This. THIS! Is totally unfair to ask myself to be some sort of anchor for someone I barely know!

Not worth it dude. I know Devo is trying to advise options for if you want it to work, but this whole things just screams BAIL. Someone who is so mentally damaged they can't even see their own actions and is so easily ready to just shovel blame all over you is fucked up and not worth your time.

 

[SuperEpicMan]

This is the worst thing about it. I really do like her. We played some PS3 games, she played Mass Effect 2 incredibly well...everything was great. Being so close to her physically WAS very nice. But I have this feeling of "You're a jackass if you bail" because something is telling me that somewhere in time, she got hurt real bad. And I want to help her through that. To make her happy. But the adage of "You can't change someone" and my logical self is telling me not to pursue.

I wouldn't feel that is a quality worth searching for in a girlfriend. Yeah it would be awesome if my girlfriend liked the exact same things as me, but part of the fun is in introducing her to things she's not very in to. I am really into movies, and have seen a ridiculous amount of them, whereas she doesn't watch many movies, but I love it that I can slowly introduce her to my favourites and chances are they will be new experiences for her. This works both ways, she is into things that I have not tried or considered, so in the end you both get into new things.

Follow your instincts, but don't feel like you should like someone more because you share the same hobbies.

 

[Future PhaZe]

Bailout crush, huge red flag.

Just take your new found sense of confidence to make your next attempts that much easier, hopefully to find a chick who isn't crazy.

 

[Uncompromisable]

Crushdance, I'm going to be real with you. This girl does have insecurities (many do), but one thing that made her insecure is the fact that you did not (try to) have sex with her. This makes her feel unattractive and unwanted by you. The way she expressed this to you is by using your values against you in a very gross attack. In all honesty though, do yourself a favor, simplify your life and start sleeping with the girls you're seeing as soon as you can. IT JUST MAKES THINGS WAY WAY EASIER for you and her.

 

[demon]

Crush- she sounds crazy. Maybe it's not her fault, maybe she is a rape victim like Devo says (kinda sounds like it), but she still has no right to accuse you of mildly rapey things you didn't do. Bail, dude.

 

[subversus]

lol, just had the most awkward date in years.

So this girl from the dating site returned from the vacation and we started texting a lot again. I set up the second date thinking about hanging around in the city - no particular direction, just hanging around. Like I always do. For the record the first date went alright, we had fun, she seemed to be a nice person, I liked her being around.

So she's late for 1,5 hours (tons of excuses were provided) but that was okay, I expected that. We were texting until 2 am last night and agreed to meet at 12 am but she lives on the outskirts of the city so it would take her just 2 hours to get to the place.

So that's ok, I work on my laptop waiting for her, then we meet at another place (I had to move because of an urgent appointment). We start hanging around and I feel that something is not okay. Everything is lame. I don't feel genuine. I don't feel any drive. I look at her, she's beatiful, but something is wrong. I lose the direction I wanted to stick to, the heat is harsh, we walk around some alleys, nothing is there but boring houses. I talk about some ridiculous stuff. She laughs but but it's not a good laugh. It's boring.

I had endured this for like 40 minutes then we start sort of quarelling about where to go. I felt completely lost and overheated. I want this to end so I tell her may be we should go home. A sense of shock in the air. We walk to the underground station and part our ways.

The most curious thing about this is how I don't give a fuck about what happened. My self-esteem would be probably devastated 10 years ago but now I came back to office, worked very productively for some time, then went home, cleaned up my apartment a little bit and now I'm going to visit my friend to hang around. She is a beatiful woman and a very nice person but any kind of chemistry we had on the first date and on the internet just evaporated.

Don't know what happened but here we go again - dating sites and probably some bar on the next weeekend. This weekend I'm too busy.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Crushdance, I'm going to be real with you. This girl does have insecurities (many do), but one thing that made her insecure is the fact that you did not (try to) have sex with her. This makes her feel unattractive and unwanted by you. The way she expressed this to you is by using your values against you in a very gross attack. In all honesty though, do yourself a favor, simplify your life and start sleeping with the girls you're seeing as soon as you can. IT JUST MAKES THINGS WAY WAY EASIER for you and her.

Speculations are fine and all but that's a pretty ridiculous assessment of this gal's psyche.

lol, just had the most awkward date in years.

So this girl from the dating site returned from the vacation and we started texting a lot again. I set up the second date thinking about hanging around in the city - no particular direction, just hanging around. Like I always do. For the record the first date went alright, we had fun, she seemed to be a nice person, I liked her being around.

So she's late for 1,5 hours (tons of excuses were provided) but that was okay, I expected that. We were texting until 2 am last night and agreed to meet at 12 am but she lives on the outskirts of the city so it would take her just 2 hours to get to the place.

So that's ok, I work on my laptop waiting for her, then we meet at another place (I had to move because of an urgent appointment). We start hanging around and I feel that something is not okay. Everything is lame. I don't feel genuine. I don't feel any drive. I look at her, she's beatiful, but something is wrong. I lose the direction I wanted to stick to, the heat is harsh, we walk around some alleys, nothing is there but boring houses. I talk about some ridiculous stuff. She laughs but but it's not a good laugh. It's boring.

I had endured this for like 40 minutes then we start sort of quarelling about where to go. I felt completely lost and overheated. I want this to end so I tell her may be we should go home. A sense of shock in the air. We walk to the underground station and part our ways.

The most curious thing about this is how I don't give a fuck about what happened. My self-esteem would be probably devastated 10 years but now I came back to office, worked very productively for some time, then went home, cleaned up my apartment a little bit and now I'm going to visit my friend to hang around. She is a beatiful woman and a very nice person but any kind of chemistry we had on the first date and on the internet just evaporated.

Don't know what happened but here we go again - dating sites and probably some bar on the next weeekend. This weekend I'm too busy.

Sounds like you know what to do, sometimes first appearances are misleading - these things happen.

 

[Uncompromisable]

Speculations are fine and all but that's a pretty ridiculous assessment of this gal's psyche.

Hardly (and certainly no more than others here). Think about this: this girl initiated physical intimacy, was led on and teased for two hours. She wanted sex, but was then ultimately rejected. This is hard for a guy to handle, IMAGINE A WOMAN. She feels completely unnattractive and ridiculous and wanted to get back to crushdance for making her feel this way. This perfectly explains her childish irrational accusation. She felt like shit.

Of course I am not defending her, and in the spirit of crushdance I suppose he does want someone who can handle his arcane courtship rituals, but I am not that surprised by this (it used to happen to me back in my late teens when I had an idealistic view of this stuff).

If you have the opportunity to have sex with the girl you like, outright TURNING HER DOWN THE FIRST TIME is likely a huge mistake, it can downright kill everything you had going.

 

[Sarye]

Hardly (and certainly no more than others here). Think about this: this girl initiated physical intimacy, was led on and teased for two hours. She wanted sex, but was then ultimately rejected. This is hard for a guy to handle, IMAGINE A WOMAN. She feels completely unnattractive and ridiculous and wanted to get back to crushdance for making her feel this way. This perfectly explains her childish irrational accusation. She felt like shit.

Of course I am not defending her, and in the spirit of crushdance I suppose he does want someone who can handle his arcane courtship rituals, but I am not that surprised by this (it used to happen to me back in my late teens when I had an idealistic view of this stuff).

If you have the opportunity to have sex with the girl you like, outright TURNING HER DOWN THE FIRST TIME is likely a huge mistake, it can downright kill everything you had going.

holy shi...

That's a dangerous speculation as if she actually is damaged, him going through with it would land him in deeper trouble. If you thought her reaction is ridiculous, try accusation of rape and him having to prove to police that the sex was consensual. That's an absolute nightmare.

Also I take issue with what you say "arcane courtship rituals". I think it's perfectly fine to wait and get to know a girl before having sex. That's his views, no need to call him out on it. Heck, this was only their 2nd date.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Hardly (and certainly no more than others here). Think about this: this girl initiated physical intimacy, was led on and teased for two hours. She wanted sex, but was then ultimately rejected. This is hard for a guy to handle, IMAGINE A WOMAN. She feels completely unnattractive and ridiculous and wanted to get back to crushdance for making her feel this way. This perfectly explains her childish irrational accusation. She felt like shit.

Of course I am not defending her, and in the spirit of crushdance I suppose he does want someone who can handle his arcane courtship rituals, but I am not that surprised by this (it used to happen to me back in my late teens when I had an idealistic view of this stuff).

If you have the opportunity to have sex with the girl you like, outright TURNING HER DOWN THE FIRST TIME is likely a huge mistake, it can downright kill everything you had going.

People can, and do, enjoy foreplay that does not lead to sex so I reject your basic premise.
Sure, it's possible, but I'd say it's wise to assume that it is not as he might have ended up in trouble had he been thinking like you are now and tried to have had sex with her (she might have accused him for raping her).

Crushdance did the right thing threading carefully and not forcing the issue.

 

[Jackben]

lol, just had the most awkward date in years.

So this girl from the dating site returned from the vacation and we started texting a lot again. I set up the second date thinking about hanging around in the city - no particular direction, just hanging around. Like I always do. For the record the first date went alright, we had fun, she seemed to be a nice person, I liked her being around.

So she's late for 1,5 hours (tons of excuses were provided) but that was okay, I expected that. We were texting until 2 am last night and agreed to meet at 12 am but she lives on the outskirts of the city so it would take her just 2 hours to get to the place.

So that's ok, I work on my laptop waiting for her, then we meet at another place (I had to move because of an urgent appointment). We start hanging around and I feel that something is not okay. Everything is lame. I don't feel genuine. I don't feel any drive. I look at her, she's beatiful, but something is wrong. I lose the direction I wanted to stick to, the heat is harsh, we walk around some alleys, nothing is there but boring houses. I talk about some ridiculous stuff. She laughs but but it's not a good laugh. It's boring.

I had endured this for like 40 minutes then we start sort of quarelling about where to go. I felt completely lost and overheated. I want this to end so I tell her may be we should go home. A sense of shock in the air. We walk to the underground station and part our ways.

The most curious thing about this is how I don't give a fuck about what happened. My self-esteem would be probably devastated 10 years ago but now I came back to office, worked very productively for some time, then went home, cleaned up my apartment a little bit and now I'm going to visit my friend to hang around. She is a beatiful woman and a very nice person but any kind of chemistry we had on the first date and on the internet just evaporated.

Don't know what happened but here we go again - dating sites and probably some bar on the next weeekend. This weekend I'm too busy.

I think the off-feeling you had was yourself being suprised that you were so in-tune and in control of the situation and your feelings regarding it. You just weren't feeling it and you were more than happy to let it go without being hung-up over it. That's a great thing man! Feel good.

 

[Uncompromisable]

holy shi...

That's a dangerous speculation as if she actually is damaged, him going through with it would land him in deeper trouble. If you thought her reaction is ridiculous, try accusation of rape and him having to prove to police that the sex was consensual. That's an absolute nightmare.

Also I take issue with what you say "arcane courtship rituals". I think it's perfectly fine to wait and get to know a girl before having sex. That's his views, no need to call him out on it. Heck, this was only their 2nd date.

I say "arcane courtship rituals" with the full benefit of having read many many years of crushdance's dating problems on GAF, always the same type of problems, always coming back to his prince charming idealistic fairy tale view of love. That shit dun help mang.

 

[Uncompromisable]

People can, and do, enjoy foreplay that does not lead to sex so I reject your basic premise.
Sure, it's possible, but I'd say it's wise to assume that it is not as he might have ended up in trouble had he been thinking like you are now and tried to have had sex with her (she might have accused him for raping her).

Crushdance did the right thing threading carefully and not forcing the issue.

What world are we living in? The reason she would accuse him of rape is exactly because she doesn't trust him or respect his manhood, because he's not respecting her womanhood and making her feel like a slut for wanting sex prematurely in his mind. This is just another point of view but having battled with this my self years ago, I know this from experience. Making women feel bad for wanting sex is a recipe for disaster. Ironically, had he had sex with her, it'd be less likely she'd accuse him of rape. Women will almost always want to escape to burden of having to introduce sex into the relationship, it makes them feel like 1) they're sluts, 2) that the man is not leading. Accusing him of being innappropriate and making her feel like an object is precisely her way of freeing herself of the responsibility and guilt of sex.

 

[Howard Ballou]

I do think that asking for permission to do something in the heat of the moment can make things a bit awkward, but I don't really think it caused the girl to flip out like that. Deeper issues here.

 

[shanshan310]

Buckle up guys.

You should go into writing, because that was hot.

Also, I wouldn't give up on her just yet. Have an honest chat and see where it goes, but don't bail out unless you're really uncomfortable.

 

[Locke_211]

Asking for permission is awkward. In a totally ideal world you would just kind of gauge when to do it by reading your partner's body language, and know from the re-action whether or not you got it right or wrong. But this isn't an ideal world!

It did sound from reading that you were being pressured into sex by your partner, not the other way around!

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Buckle up guys.

So today was our second time together and we hung out at my place. Which she sugessted even and I did not. I picked her up, threw in a bluray and we watched a movie on my PS3 in my room. Having known that this was the plan to hang out and watch a movie days prior, I purchased some stuff like drinks(non alcoholic) and snacks. We sat there watching the movie and I put my arm around her after fighting with myself as to whether I should or not. She smiled and reciprocated. We talked a bit throughout the movie and I mentioned how the kiss the other day was unexpected on a first date, but that it was nice. At this point she took my arm off her shoulder and pushed me onto the bed, kissing me. I was a little confused, but definitely excited. (Although I did not want to go any further and was ready to tell her that. Let me reiterate. I could have slept with many women thus far but have always been a hopeless romantic.) We giggled a bit and out of nowhere she started rubbing up against me and being very frisky. I grabbed her hand and moved away a bit and tried to sit back up. She pushed me back down and started biting my neck, ears, etc. So yeah, at this point I was obviously very aroused and pardoned myself. She laughed it off and said: "It's okay. It's fine if you get hard". She kept fucking going and going, as we made out heavily. I didn't do much though since I was nervous and because I just didn't want to continue mentally. She then took my hands and placed them on her chest and lowered herself down so that my hands pushed into her breasts. I asked her if she wanted me to go on and she said "Yes". We continued making out and she fucking went insane. Like nails, teeth, all this shit.

Now obviously a total noob like me would be overwhelmed by this, and I truly was. It was exhilarating but scary in a way. Finally I pushed her off as I had put some food on the stove and our litle session had made me forget all about it. Of course I was seriously "risen" at this point and didn't feel comfrotable walking into the kitchen where a room-mate might be. She jumped off the bed, took a swig of her iced drink and kissed me again. Telling me "That'll cool you down". Yeah, no, it didn't. Anyway I went and turned the stove off, came back with the food and we ate while talking. After we finished I finally kissed her and I swear on the holy ghost itself, gently brushed her back with my hand as we lay down. She reciprocated and lunged into me, wrapping her legs around my waist and all. My hands went to her hips and she said "Not any lower...unless you ask". To which I said "Okay...may I?". She said yes and put them there herself. Then out of nowhere she grabbed my butt and I laughed, asking her what happened to asking first. She said, and I quote: "There's things that I want to do to you, that I may not want you to do to me." At this point I was just deep in lust and laughed it off. While my mind feebly screamed: "What?!".

I was a perfect gentleman the entire time. A lot of people in real life and even some of you guys on GAF can attest to that. I won't even stare at a woman if she's wearing something skimpy without making eye contact first at least. My mom did not raise me to mistreat women in any way and I have sisters. I would never want any guy to treat them badly or anything either. So I always treat women close to me very well. And especially so if they're a potential love interest. Any-time I touched her I always asked first. So much so at one point she said: "Are you going to ask every time?". I could easly have dominated her physically, but I did not once force myself on her in any manner. I gave her full control for the most part and only ever chimed in when she bit too hard or when I felt that we were going to far. The entire time I showered her with compliments(truthfully) and was very gentle.

So after our weird tryst was over(About two hours in length of non stop making out). My alarm went off, reminding me that I had to get to work soon. I pushed her off(Gently) and told her that I'd had fun, but had to get to work. Saying how I wished we could stay in bed all day, but that for now I had to work. She pushed me back down and straddled me, scratching my abdomen and biting my neck. I told her that I seriously had to go and would drop her off. She swung a leg off and laughed, kissed me agan and said some other day as she lay back. I quickly grabbed my work clothes from the hangers and helped her up.

SHE THEN SAT AT THE EDGE OF THE BED. PUT HER HEAD UP AND LOOKED AT THE CEILING. SIGHING.I asked her what was the matter since I could see her eyes getting watery and her face turning red. She slumped over, face in hands. At this point my energy high and arousal just died like nothing and I dropped my clothes, walked over and just hugged her. Asking what was wrong. Kissed her forehead, absolutely fucking confused. THIS WAS MY SECOND DATE EVER. WHY WAS THE GIRL CRYING?! I thought maybe she had some family issue, personal issue, etc, I didn't fucking know. I soothingly coaxed it out of her and she said this, THIS!:

AND. I. FUCKING. QUOTE. Because Lord knows that I'll never forget:

"JUST BECAUSE WE'RE MAKING OUT, DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU GET TO DO WHATEVER YOU WANT WITH MY BODY. I'M NOT JUST FOR YOU TO POP."

What. What?? What?! My heart sank like the fucking Titanic and there was this... immeasurable wave of filth that just washed over me. I immediately let go of her as I sat dumbfounded. Never in my life have I ever felt so guilty and dirty. The way she looked at me, her posture, her eyes; I felt as if I'd just raped someone. Taken something incredibly private from them. I'd basically touched and seen everything from the waist up and now I felt so powerfully that I'd just violated her. Guilt. Guilt was all I could feel and guilt is STILL a large part of what I feel now. This woman was someone that I was starting to care about, that I'd spent my free time talking with and getting to know. That I'd allowed into my house warmly and into my bed. The only woman who's ever shared a bed with me. And now I quite literally felt like a monster who'd lured her in and violated her.

I didn't know what to say. She just sat there whimpering and I clasped my mouth with both hands, mind racing. Finally I blurted out a weak "sorry" and put my arm around her. Reassuring her that I would never treat her as a sexual tool, have never treated any woman that way; and that in the future, I'd always ask before doing anything again. She sniffled some more and I gently ushered her up and out. We got in the car and as I drove her home, my face must've been ashen. I truly felt as if I'd broken some sanctimonious trust. But my mind was slamming into my vision, and as I drove, I straight up said: "What did I do wrong?". And this is the point where I went from guilt to guilt bordering on anger: "It..it's just that when I do something to you. It's because...I want too. But the way you touched me at times, I felt as if you were trying to take advantage of me."

I had damn near half my mind to slam on the brakes and just stare at her. HOW IN THE GLORIOUS FUCK?! Me? Me?! The guy who you'd spent an entire day talking and hanging out with, trading stories, agreeing on pretty much every moral standing, THE GUY WHO'D TOLD YOU FIRST THAT HE WANTED TO TAKE THINGS SLOW AND WAS IN NO RUSH TO HAVE SEX? That guy?! I didn't fucking know that making out was considered having sex! Anyway. I dropped her off and went to work. My mood has been a mess since.

Never have I been so close to a woman before and never have I seen or felt the things I did today. But. I don't fucking understand how that makes me a monster for giving into my physical urges to a point. The point of "DO NOT HURT HER IN ANY WAY". Everything that she did to me, I never took offense too. I corrected her if it was too much or inappropriate at this stage, but I did not guilt trip her about it. Is this not what we're supposed to discuss? Boundaries and whatnot? So what the fuck is the problem?!

Here is what I'm going to do: I'm going to talk to her and explain very warmly that we perhaps took it too far too fast and did not set boundaries well enough.(Even though we did...). I will apologize again for any inappropriate touching(During a fucking makeout session??) and tell her that perhaps for now, it'd be best if we were cordial friends.

I'm sorry guys, but this type of reaction is a bright red danger sign; even to me. I'm thinking that maybe some guy tried to force himself on her in the past or something based on her breakdown. I'm not certain. But I certainely won't and can't deal with this much drama in my first relationship. It's not even that I could/will talk to her about this. It's the fact that when and if I see her again, I'm going to feel...betrayal? And anger. Because as much as she went insane about this, I too opened a very intimate and private side of myself to her as well. I screwed up by trusting her too fast with my body and letting the physical side escalate so quick. She's the one who made all the first moves physically and I'm the one who had to keep reassuring her that I really did want to know her and that it'd be weeks or months before I desired intimacy. Yet now I'm the one feeling like utter shit.

I literally feel as if I'd dirtied my hands. Not in my feelings, but in have simply touching her. And I just can't see how fearing touching the person you care about and hurting them because of that is anything that a novice like me should be dealing with.

Fuck.

Just read this. Honestly, I see where she's coming from. She basically threw herself at you, she obviously gets aroused, expecting you to reciprocate what she is doing to you and instead you continue trying to push her away. Imagine it from her perspective. Imagine that you hit on a woman, she gets you aroused, totally aroused, and then continues pushing you away to the point she says to you 'Sorry brosef but I gots to get to the job now! byeeeeeee'.

Just because you're wanting to take it slow doesn't mean she is and the way you responded made her feel that 1) you didn't want her, 2) you wanted to get yourself excited but not her, 3) YOU THINK TOO MUCH!

If you want to take it slow, thats fine, but don't invite a woman over to your house, into your bedroom, watch a movie and expect nothing to happen.

 

[Uncompromisable]

Just read this. Honestly, I see where she's coming from. She basically threw herself at you, she obviously gets aroused, expecting you to reciprocate what she is doing to you and instead you continue trying to push her away. Imagine it from her perspective. Imagine that you hit on a woman, she gets you aroused, totally aroused, and then continues pushing you away to the point you say 'Sorry brosef but I gots to get to the job now! byeeeeeee'.

Just because you're wanting to take it slow doesn't mean she is and the way you responded made her feel that 1) you didn't want her, 2) you wanted to get yourself excited but not her, 3) YOU THINK TOO MUCH!

If you want to take it slow, thats fine, but don't invite a woman over to your house, into your bedroom, watch a movie and expect nothing to happen.

*faith in dating-age GAF partly restored*

 

[Locke_211]

But at the same time a guy has the right to not want sex at any moment... right?? There's no obligation to have sex with a girl just because you wanted to watch a film with her, or even kiss her.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

But at the same time a guy has the right to not want sex at any moment... right?? There's no obligation to have sex with a girl just because you wanted to watch a film with her, or even kiss her.

Then don't invite her to your bedroom to 'watch a movie'. Seriously? What did he think was going to happen? She obviously wants him. He let it get to a certain point, and then pushes her away. Sorry, romanticism is fantastic but not everyone is romantic to the point he is. I am not saying he had to put his penis inside of her but don't act all shocked at what transpired.

 

[Uncompromisable]

But at the same time a guy has the right to not want sex at any moment... right?? There's no obligation to have sex with a girl just because you wanted to watch a film with her, or even kiss her.

No there isn't but you gotta accept the consequences because some women are insecure ("some", har). With that same logic, a girl has to right the be peeved for failing to incite a male she likes to have sex with her. It sends ALL the wrong messages if you want something more with her.

 

[Takuan]

@Crushdance: I don't think you should take what she said literally. I have a feeling that was just how she expressed her frustration at being rejected.

Or she's just crazy.

 

[Uncompromisable]

@Crushdance from the bottom of my heart,

Next time, just whip it out, this ain't your mother or your sister

Spoiler

(this is what's fucking you up dude).

 

[Jackben]

Just read this. Honestly, I see where she's coming from. She basically threw herself at you, she obviously gets aroused, expecting you to reciprocate what she is doing to you and instead you continue trying to push her away. Imagine it from her perspective. Imagine that you hit on a woman, she gets you aroused, totally aroused, and then continues pushing you away to the point she says to you 'Sorry brosef but I gots to get to the job now! byeeeeeee'.

Just because you're wanting to take it slow doesn't mean she is and the way you responded made her feel that 1) you didn't want her, 2) you wanted to get yourself excited but not her, 3) YOU THINK TOO MUCH!

If you want to take it slow, thats fine, but don't invite a woman over to your house, into your bedroom, watch a movie and expect nothing to happen.

Nah dude, if you have been reading his posts from the beginning he was very clear with his intentions from and very clearly communicated how he was feeling and what he was doing. She contradicted herself severely between saying "you dont have to ask for permission every time" to somehow trying to guilt-trip him saying he doesn't just get to "pop" her and abuse her whenever he wants.

That's total bullshit. I don't care what her motivations were, whether it came from being in abusive past relationships or if it was because she was simply sexually frustrated, it's not an appropriate or an adult way to communicate at all.

Furthermore, he had to get to work, how is that pushing her away? I can understand trying to rationalize her actions but she was very clearly in the wrong here.

Then don't invite her to your bedroom to 'watch a movie'.

This is pretty narrow-minded and stupid, dare I say even sexist. Guys are allowed to escalate or slow down sexual encounters just as much as women are.

"This girl invited me over to 'watch a movie' but then she didn't want to do anything more than make-out. That's bullshit"

See how dumb that sounds when you put it in the other perspective?

Next time, just whip it out, this ain't your mother or your sister

Ignore the "alpha male" talk in this thread.

I strongly advise not having sex with someone who you are not on the same page with.

 

[Locke_211]

Then don't invite her to your bedroom to 'watch a movie'. Seriously? What did he think was going to happen? She obviously wants him. He let it get to a certain point, and then pushes her away. Sorry, romanticism is fantastic but not everyone is romantic to the point he is. I am not saying he had to put his penis inside of her but don't act all shocked at what transpired.

No it's cool. I just wondering how it would play if the genders were reversed and a woman was shocked. People probably wouldn't get away with being all 'what did you think was going to happen, you invited him to your room??' - but never mind.

EDIT: saying that, Crushdance does seem to have some ideas that being sexual is fundementally wrong or dirty, but I'm not sure how relevant that is.

 

[Uncompromisable]

No it's cool. I just wondering how it would play if the genders were reversed and a woman was shocked. People probably wouldn't get away with being all 'what did you think was going to happen, you invited him to your room??' - but never mind.

EDIT: saying that, Crushdance does seem to have some ideas that being sexual is fundementally wrong or dirty, but I'm not sure how relevant that is.

Oh yeah, from hearing girls talk, that's exactly what they say when one of them says "well I just invited him over for a movie....didn't know THAT was going to happen." Her friend: "WHAT DID YOU THINK WAS GONNA HAPPEN?"

 

[Locke_211]

Oh yeah, from hearing girls talk, that's exactly what they say when one of them says "well I just invited him over for a movie....didn't know THAT was going to happen." Her friend: "WHAT DID YOU THINK WAS GONNA HAPPEN?"

Fair enough

 

[Uncompromisable]

Nah dude, if you have been reading his posts from the beginning he was very clear with his intentions from and very clearly communicated how he was feeling and what he was doing. She contradicted herself severely between saying "you dont have to ask for permission every time" to somehow trying to guilt-trip him saying he doesn't just get to "pop" her and abuse her whenever he wants.

That's total bullshit. I don't care what her motivations were, whether it came from being in abusive past relationships or if it was because she was simply sexually frustrated, it's not an appropriate or an adult way to communicate at all.

It's very hard to be honest about this but here goes.

No man can say "I don't want sex" and be trusted in this society by anyone. It doesn't matter if he was "clear about his intentions", she sees him as a sexual animal. In her mind and the mind of many women, a man that doesn't want sex is either lying or not a man (I'm deeply sorry if I offend some of you with this, I had problems with this too afterall).

What you call "her acting on past trauma", I call fully normal and expected.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

What world are we living in? The reason she would accuse him of rape is exactly because she doesn't trust him or respect his manhood, because he's not respecting her womanhood and making her feel like a slut for wanting sex prematurely in his mind. This is just another point of view but having battled with this my self years ago, I know this from experience. Making women feel bad for wanting sex is a recipe for disaster. Ironically, had he had sex with her, it'd be less likely she'd accuse him of rape. Women will almost always want to escape to burden of having to introduce sex into the relationship, it makes them feel like 1) they're sluts, 2) that the man is not leading. Accusing him of being innappropriate and making her feel like an object is precisely her way of freeing herself of the responsibility and guilt of sex.

Please keep out of this thread and dispense your nuggets of wisdom over here:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=483579&highlight=