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[ColdBlooder]

I'm sure Nintendo will release a game that looks good on Wii U. That doesn't change what I said about them setting the bar low. I don't think this newsstory is the first time we'll hear about this new console somehow managing to not be up to par with the current gen ones.

Nintendo is a gaming company only. They have to make Money on hard and software. They can´t afford to put an AAA budget behind every game. Thats why you see some games with lower budget not going for killer graphics, and other games (3D Mario, Zelda) with AAA budget wich will push the hardware.

Expect true visual eyepleasers from Nintendo once the new Microsoft and Sony console will be revealed, wich is propably the reason why they are holding back now. Nintendo loves keeping as much as possible close to their chest when theres a new console. Sucks for us, but Nintendo thinks its the way to go.

Maybe we see a glimpse of AAA games at the fall conference though (in September)

 

[Dead Man Typing]

The interview only seems to mention Madden, what about Fifa?

The Fifa games have had the advanced physics for a year or two now, will the Wii U version it? Maybe this is more the Madden team's problem with getting the physics working for the first time this year on the usual platforms and not having time to optimise for Wii U.

I guess if Madden Ultimate Team isn't in, then Fifa Ultimate Team wouldn't be either, but I didn't see that mentioned anywhere. Maybe I skimmed past it somewhere in the thread.

 

[AzaK]

It's just about setting the agenda. Nintendo seem to have once again set the bar as being "good enough" graphics with some controller gimmickness. I don't need NSMB to look like Crysis, but it's already obvious that Wii U, even though it's going to be the most powerful* console on the market for a year or so, is probably never going to radically beat out 360 or PS3 because nobody is going to care enough to do so.

Thing is, even if Wii U was 100x as powerful as 360, Madden and in fact any 360/PS3 port would look just like the 360/PS3 version with maybe 60fps and 1080 through brute force. To make a game look markedly better you have to put work to it.

We need to wait until 1st, 2nd, exclusive and 720/PS4 downports happen before we really see what the Wii U can do.

 

[Delusibeta]

ITT: people jumping on the Wii U and declaring it shit without realising that it takes EA Sports 12 months (at best!) to get to grips with any new hardware, by which point they've released two games of each of their series. Call again in 2014.

 

[ColdBlooder]

ITT: people jumping on the Wii U and declaring it shit without realising that it takes EA Sports 12 months (at best!) to get to grips with any new hardware, by which point they've released two games of each of their series. Call again in 2014.

Thats what i tried to tell them.

There a huge difference in modifiying and existing engine year by year and porting the whole damn thing to a brand new machine. One year is really too short for a complete port. People seem to underestimate how big the code for a game like Madden/Fifa truly is (With graphics, gameplay, sound, physics, etc...)

People propably assume that you can just load the 360 code into the Wii U kit and push the "Port to Wii U" button anf it runs...

 

[butter_stick]

ITT: people jumping on the Wii U and declaring it shit without realising that it takes EA Sports 12 months (at best!) to get to grips with any new hardware, by which point they've released two games of each of their series. Call again in 2014.

What is there to "get to grips with"?

This isn't like PS2 > PS3 or something. Wii U threads have been filled with people saying how things will be different this time because the architecture between 360 and Wii U is reasonably similar.

 

[Delusibeta]

What is there to "get to grips with"?

This isn't like PS2 > PS3 or something. Wii U threads have been filled with people saying how things will be different this time because the architecture between 360 and Wii U is reasonably similar.

Because the budget for this game, like every version of any EA Sports game for any new hardware, is approximately five dollars.

 

[ColdBlooder]

What is there to "get to grips with"?

This isn't like PS2 > PS3 or something. Wii U threads have been filled with people saying how things will be different this time because the architecture between 360 and Wii U is reasonably similar.

Wrong, the early v1 kits was similar. Final silicon turned out way different. Especially the CPU.

V1 dev kits also used off the shelf parts, overheated and were given to devs weeks before E3 2011

Im not going through 6 speculation threads to find the stuff but wsippel wrote that Nintendo somehwere between dev kits, changed the compiler, a highly unusal move (according to him). So we assumed the CPU had some drastic changes.

If you would have followed the Pre E3 speculation topics, you would have known that

 

[LuchaShaq]

Not dissimilar to their Wii tactic.

If the WiiU's technical acumen (or lack thereof) is such a sticking point to you... why are you in a WiiU thread? It's not like this is completely unknown. It obviously isn't shocking to you since you've got plenty of snappy retorts.

Trying to rile up the less seasoned in the ways of GAF?

The fact that I'm not excited or intending to buy a Wii U due to technical reasons means I can't post in WiiU threads? Gaf is about discussion not 100% OMG SO EXCITE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE ALL OVER MY FACE in every thread despite the trend for it to be that way the last few years.

 

[linkboy]

These two pictures are Madden 06 on the 360 (Alex Smith picture) and Madden 2007 PS3 (Stephen Jackson picture). Both games were the first releases for their system.

In addition to both games looking terrible, they played like shit. It's taken EA damn near all generation just to get Madden to be somewhat playable (it wasn't until 09 that they started fixing things).

The series still isn't up to where it was last gen.

The fact that EA is 1/2 assing a Madden game for a new console launch is nothing new, its par for the course.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

These two pictures are Madden 06 on the 360 (Alex Smith picture) and Madden 2007 PS3 (Stephen Jackson picture). Both games were the first releases for their system.

In addition to both games looking terrible, they played like shit. It's taken EA damn near all generation just to get Madden to be somewhat playable (it wasn't until 09 that they started fixing things).

The series still isn't up to where it was last gen.

The fact that EA is 1/2 assing a Madden game for a new console launch is nothing new, its par for the course.

Thankyou..not like they will understand it but thanks for that! Madden is just not the type of game that can be made just like that. Either madden(football) is complicated as fuck to program or EA sports is lazy. Im going with EA sports being lazy. Because like linkboy said madden in terms of playability is still not even on par with last gen!

 

[MadeInBeats]

If you would have followed the Pre E3 speculation topics, you would have known that

Oh no you ditt'nt ;p

Part of me is like, screw EA then, don't buy protest. But I think that's probably a bit harsh. They're stretched with resources, more so since they're releasing on the Wii too!! Cut'em some slack I say.

 

[butter_stick]

Wrong, the early v1 kits was similar. Final silicon turned out way different. Especially the CPU.

V1 dev kits also used off the shelf parts, overheated and were given to devs weeks before E3 2011

Im not going through 6 speculation threads to find the stuff but wsippel wrote that Nintendo somehwere between dev kits, changed the compiler, a highly unusal move (according to him). So we assumed the CPU had some drastic changes.

If you would have followed the Pre E3 speculation topics, you would have known that

So this thing can't get simple 360 ports? I thought the whole argument people have been making for months and months now is how there's no technological reason why it shouldn't be able to get current gen ports and downgraded 720/PS4 games. Is this another Wii?

 

[Delusibeta]

So this thing can't get simple 360 ports? I thought the whole argument people have been making for months and months now is how there's no technological reason why it shouldn't be able to get current gen ports and downgraded 720/PS4 games. Is this another Wii?

No, because as linkboy pointed out, EA Sports makes a what seems to be deliberate decision to make shit ports for new consoles (I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a result of making the game using no money).

 

[ColdBlooder]

So this thing can't get simple 360 ports? I thought the whole argument people have been making for months and months now is how there's no technological reason why it shouldn't be able to get current gen ports and downgraded 720/PS4 games. Is this another Wii?

Its easily capable of 360 ports, but you will need to put some effort into it because of vastly different cpu architectures.

Just one example of the differences is that Wii Us CPU is OoOE (Out of Order Execution) while Xbox 360s CPU is still an in order cpu. (OoOE is more modern and common in every CPU nowadays, except for the intel Atom, wich is, to this day, still an in order CPU)

Xbox 360 does have to calculate every instruction as it comes in where Wii Us cpu can priotize wich calculation to do first (hence Out of Order). Just by copying xbox 360 code, you will get NO benefits of an OoOE CPU, and may even get worse results. Code that us not optimized for the CPU will run like dog poo, thats no secret.

So it has easily enough power for ports, but you need to redo/rework and tweak your code to get it to run. This has nothing to do with CPU power. Its just the architecture differences.

EDIT: It may work to copy and paste xbox 360 code but it propably runs loke dog poo, with no optimization/tweaking

 

[radcliff]

Its easily capable of 360 ports, but you will need to put some effort into it because of vastly different cpu architectures.

Just one example of the differences is that Wii Us CPU is OoOE (Out of Order Execution) while Xbox 360s CPU is still an in order cpu. (OoOE is more modern and common in every CPU nowadays, except for the intel Atom, wich is, to this day, still an in order CPU)

Xbox 360 does have to calculate every instruction as it comes in where Wii Us cpu can priotize wich calculation to do first (hence Out of Order). Just by copying xbox 360 code, you will get NO benefits of an OoOE CPU, and may even get worse results. Code that us not optimized for the CPU will run like dog poo, thats no secret.

So it has easily enough power for ports, but you need to redo/rework and tweak your code to get it to run. This has nothing to do with CPU power. Its just the architecture differences.

EDIT: It may work to copy and paste xbox 360 code but it propably runs loke dog poo, with no optimization/tweaking

And assuming Sony and MS go with a similar CPU architecture for their next systems (which seems to be the case based on the latest rumors), that is why it would be easier to port PS4/X720 games to Wii U than PS3/X360 games- similar architectures.

 

[z0m3le]

So this thing can't get simple 360 ports? I thought the whole argument people have been making for months and months now is how there's no technological reason why it shouldn't be able to get current gen ports and downgraded 720/PS4 games. Is this another Wii?

Same thing happened with PS3 in it's first year, remember all the stuff they removed from that madden that the 360 version had?

Also if you look even further back, PS2 to Xbox ports had issues too, some of these games actually ran worse on the xbox despite having over twice the processing power of the PS2

 

[Bony Manifesto]

So it's kind of like the PS3? More raw power than the 360, but only games that are written from the ground-up can really take advantage of it, and it's not possible to get good performance in ports from the 360 without rewriting a lot of the code to use the different architecture effectively.

I guess that's not too bad, but still a bit worrying when it's only comparatively recently that PS3 versions of multiplatform games are consistently on-par with their 360 counterparts.

 

[butter_stick]

No, because as linkboy pointed out, EA Sports makes a what seems to be deliberate decision to make shit ports for new consoles (I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a result of making the game using no money).

Usually the situation is that the engine isn't ready to take advantage of the new hardware. Here there's no such excuse. I don't remember the Wii version of Madden looking any worse than the Gamecube version.

 

[rvy]

I doubt it has much to do with it being a Nintendo console and much more to do with the fact that this is how EA does business.

 

[snoopeasystreet]

I still can't get over them calling it the infinity engine.

Anyway, this way sucks for Nintendo but I can kind of see why they'd rush out a port. Anyone who knows enough about madden to miss this things probably has either a 360 or PS3 where they're either buying (or not buying) madden already so there's no point in the changing over to the WiiU. And then there's the super casuals who pick up a WiiU who'll buy madden and won't know that they're missing anything.

Still, it's a super shitty move by EA and sounds like they're putting the least amount of effort into the port in order to maximize profit.

 

[The Bookerman]

So it's kind of like the PS3? More raw power than the 360, but only games that are written from the ground-up can really take advantage of it, and it's not possible to get good performance in ports from the 360 without rewriting a lot of the code to use the different architecture effectively.

I guess that's not too bad, but still a bit worrying when it's only comparatively recently that PS3 versions of multiplatform games are consistently on-par with their 360 counterparts.

hmmm no it's not like that. The Architechture is quite similar to the 360, but apparently the 360's cpu has a higher clock rate than the Wii U, while the Wii U has a more powerful GPU.

That's what I've been told by people of Ubisoft.

 

[ColdBlooder]

Usually the situation is that the engine isn't ready to take advantage of the new hardware. Here there's no such excuse. I don't remember the Wii version of Madden looking any worse than the Gamecube version.

The Wii is an overclocked Gamecube. It used the exact same chips. They just did a die shrink and clocked it 50% higher. So EA could just use the Gamecube engine.

Because Wii still used flipper as a GPU, downports from Xbox 360 and PS3 were impossible because Wiis gpu (while lacking horepower) lacked programmable shaders. (Just thought i share this little tidbit aswell)

 

[butter_stick]

The Wii is an overclocked Gamecube. It used the exact same chips. They just did a die shrink and clocked it 50% higher. So EA could just use the Gamecube engine.

Because Wii still used flipper as a GPU, downports from Xbox 360 and PS3 were impossible because Wiis gpu (while lacking horepower) lacked programmable shaders. (Just thought i share this little tidbit aswell)

I'm aware of all of this. The fact is, the standard excuse is EA's engine isn't ready to take advantage of new hardware, when this hardware should be reasonably simple to put the 360 game on. You'll claim it's not, but the existence of reasonable competent games like Batman and AC3 would certainly imply it isn't some insurmountable challenge to get 360 games running and looking half decent without massive effort.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

The fact that I'm not excited or intending to buy a Wii U due to technical reasons means I can't post in WiiU threads? Gaf is about discussion not 100% OMG SO EXCITE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE ALL OVER MY FACE in every thread despite the trend for it to be that way the last few years.

Not exactly sure who you're talking to.

I just don't think hyperbole (though unbelievably common on the internet) is helpful. It makes otherwise intelligent people look like idiots.

I'm not buying a WiiU any time soon. I also don't think there's a hidden cache of power. At the best it was always going to be 2-3x the ALU count, 3-4x the RAM, with an unconventional (by PS3/360 standards) CPU.

Potentially with some modern GPU features if Nintendo had any intention at all of porting being possible.

Any change in architecture (especially when you're talking about a system effectively within range of the PS3/360) can make porting an unoptimized engine difficult if not impossible. It's more difficult the more tailored to hardware strengths an engine is. Considering the WiiU CPU is likely lower clocked, and lacking in adequate floppage in comparison to Cell or Xenon it makes sense that a physics engine tailored to a set of In order CPU's might have troubles running on something that favors efficiency over brute force.

And there's another caveat. What if the WiiU GPU is designed to function as the physics cruncher? That's another change in the development pipeline that some may not have been ready for.

Conjecture on our part I know. But still a realistic scenario given the late date the GPU was finalized.

At the end of the day I don't expect everyone to love the system. I don't. But it would be appreciated if some of you would stop this endless tirade. We understand. The system is weak. That should be the end of it.

 

[Delusibeta]

I'm aware of all of this. The fact is, the standard excuse is EA's engine isn't ready to take advantage of new hardware, when this hardware should be reasonably simple to put the 360 game on. You'll claim it's not, but the existence of reasonable competent games like Batman and AC3 would certainly imply it isn't some insurmountable challenge to get 360 games running and looking half decent without massive effort.

As I said, the budget for the version is in the region of five dollars. EA doesn't give a shit, frankly.

 

[markot]

EA, listen to the simpsons. "Thats the problem with first impressions, you can only make one."

 

[linkboy]

I'm aware of all of this. The fact is, the standard excuse is EA's engine isn't ready to take advantage of new hardware, when this hardware should be reasonably simple to put the 360 game on. You'll claim it's not, but the existence of reasonable competent games like Batman and AC3 would certainly imply it isn't some insurmountable challenge to get 360 games running and looking half decent without massive effort.

Which would mean EA would actually care about giving a damn.

EA has the NFL license, Madden is going to sell the exact same if they put an effort in the game or not.

EA could take the time to port the new physics engine over and sell x amount of copies, or they could take the lazy route and sell the same amount of x copies.

Its something they've done many times in the past, and I'm not surprised they're doing it again.

EA, listen to the simpsons. "Thats the problem with first impressions, you can only make one."

Here's the thing, the vast majority of people don't give a shit. Madden's been a terrible to average product all gen, yet people keep buying it (I don't anymore). As long as EA can say they're the exclusive NFL video game, people are going to keep purchasing it.

 

[Amir0x]

Ah Nintendo persecution complex, I love these topics. EA being EA, as usual.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

EA, listen to the simpsons. "Thats the problem with first impressions, you can only make one."

butter_stick stumbled on a salient point earlier though.

Nintendo set the example.

And it was a low bar.

 

[The Albatross]

new console, I'm surprised they['re even making it this year.

 

[ColdBlooder]

I'm aware of all of this. The fact is, the standard excuse is EA's engine isn't ready to take advantage of new hardware, when this hardware should be reasonably simple to put the 360 game on. You'll claim it's not, but the existence of reasonable competent games like Batman and AC3 would certainly imply it isn't some insurmountable challenge to get 360 games running and looking half decent without massive effort.

Aaaand the circle is closing, because now were reaching EA just dosen´t give a damn territory.

AC3 (according to people who played it) looks best on Wii U, and you can tell that Ubisoft infact does give a damn!

And as pointed out a million times, Xbox 360 and PS3 and even the Vita suffered the same fate at the beginning of the gen.

With Wii being the excepton because they didn´t have to lift a finger to get it t run on Wii, because they could just reuse the GC engine...

 

[butter_stick]

butter_stick stumbled on a salient point earlier though.

Nintendo set the example.

And it was a low bar.

I never stumble. I stride confidently.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I never stumble. I stride confidently.

I'd expect nothing less of a man with your avatar.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Imma go get and eat kolaches now guys. Have fun arguing things!

 

[RedSwirl]

So it's kind of like the PS3? More raw power than the 360, but only games that are written from the ground-up can really take advantage of it, and it's not possible to get good performance in ports from the 360 without rewriting a lot of the code to use the different architecture effectively.

I guess that's not too bad, but still a bit worrying when it's only comparatively recently that PS3 versions of multiplatform games are consistently on-par with their 360 counterparts.

Compared to the current gen consoles yes. The Wii U's CPU architecture is more similar to what the PS4/Xbox8 will probably have (even though it performs at a current gen level). So you could say that EA is doing preliminary next gen development already.

 

[Formless]

The interview only seems to mention Madden, what about Fifa?

The Fifa games have had the advanced physics for a year or two now, will the Wii U version it? Maybe this is more the Madden team's problem with getting the physics working for the first time this year on the usual platforms and not having time to optimise for Wii U.

I guess if Madden Ultimate Team isn't in, then Fifa Ultimate Team wouldn't be either, but I didn't see that mentioned anywhere. Maybe I skimmed past it somewhere in the thread.

FIFA for Wii U is gonna be based off of FIFA 12 more than 13 IIRC.

 

[Derrick01]

EA is an ultra lazy disgrace of a company. I don't know why people are using them of all things to jump on the Wii U is weak bandwagon.

 

[marc^o^]

FIFA for Wii U is gonna be based off of FIFA 12 more than 13 IIRC.

It's missing a couple of features from the new build as well, but just like Madden it scores extra points on its own strengths:

Whether or not it'll become the FIFA format of choice over the long haul will depend on control systems the Wii U's rivals pull out of their locker, but one thing is for certain; once you've experienced the satisfaction of having all that tactical power in your hands, you'll never go back.

http://m.computerandvideogames.com/...e-gamepad-brings-you-closer-to-the-touchline/

 

[radioheadrule83]

Tbh, the mode sounds like a loss but I'm not so sure on the updated physics engine, there's a trade in this version - unprecedented control of strategy. I think some people will take that trade when they experience it.

 

[ColdBlooder]

FIFA for Wii U is gonna be based off of FIFA 12 more than 13 IIRC.

Because 2 different treams took FIFA 12. Wii U team made Fifa 12 into Fifa 13 Wii U

Other team made the regular FIFA 13

1 year cycle biting EA in the ass.

 

[ColdBlooder]

EA is an ultra lazy disgrace of a company. I don't know why people are using them of all things to jump on the Wii U is weak bandwagon.

´nuff said

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Fresh out of the oven spiced apple and poppy seed kolaches are heavenly.

This has nothing to do with EA and everything to do with the tongue based orgasm I just experienced.

 

[beje]

All this was to expect when they released Madden (11 or 12?) for 3DS wich was made by a couple of interns helped by the janitor and it didn't even have local multiplayer.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

All this was to expect when they released Madden (11 or 12?) for 3DS wich was made by a couple of interns helped by the janitor and it didn't even have local multiplayer.

lol it wasnt 11 or 12.. It was Madden 3D. 3DS doesnt have a madden 11,12 or getting a 13 a think.

 

[Kacho]

What a shame. EA makes such quality software, too. They're really starting to go downhill.

 

[beje]

lol it wasnt 11 or 12.. It was Madden 3D. 3DS doesnt have a madden 11,12 or getting a 13 a think.

Well, I meant that it wasn't even that year's Madden, just the last one from the iPhone ported. And of course it was the audience fault it didn't sell at $40, off-season and with barebones features.

 

[linkboy]

All this was to expect when they released Madden (11 or 12?) for 3DS wich was made by a couple of interns helped by the janitor and it didn't even have local multiplayer.

Oh come on, janitor's do a better job than that.

How about a couple of interns and the bobble head sitting on one of the interns desk.

 

[faridmon]

This is nothing nothing new for new consoles. The Vite version of Fifa is not even fifa 12...

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Well, I meant that it wasn't even that year's Madden, just the last one from the iPhone ported. And of course it was the audience fault it didn't sell at $40, off-season and with barebones features.

Good thing Im not the only one who thought it was just plain dumb to release a nfl game in freaking march. EA just do silly shit, they get away with it too. It will bite them in the ass one day though.