lanaya and nyx are pretty cheesy vs. him mid.
I´m doing pretty good with these 2 heroes vs. tinkers.
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Dota 2 Beta Thread 2: Real Talk Discouraged [Magnus, Teams, 6.75b, 150+ Shop Items]
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lanaya and nyx are pretty cheesy vs. him mid.
I´m doing pretty good with these 2 heroes vs. tinkers.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Lion, Lina?
I can't remember Tinker's HP at level 6, but I doubt he can survive a wombo combo from either of these heroes when they get their ults. And since they're both range, they should both be able to survive in the lane to level 6 without dying, assuming they're not being ganked.
ah yes TA too. unless he's got a point in march, which can make her a lot less safe that she'd like to be.
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
ty ill try that next time.
thing is i havent played many heros so i stll don't know how lina works, but from what ive seen, yea if i could get her stun right i am sure she could work.
Queen Of Pain counters everybody mid!
Dreams-Visions
Member
keep in mind, at Level 6, Lion's finger is doing 500 damage and there's nothing Tinker can do to stop it.
again, I don't know Tinker's typical max health at level 6, but level 3 Spike --> right click --> level 2 hex --> 2 right-clicks --> Finger of Death = most non-strength mid heroes are dead. You may not even need the extra 2 or 3 right-clicks. I feel like his HP is in the 600 range at that point, so a spike, a right-click and an ult may be enough. but i can't recall.
So with him (or Lina, who's level 6 ult does 450dmg), if you can just make sure you have max mana for when you hit level 6, you should be able to murder. I'd probably recommend managing it with Lion first, as his spike is a decidedly easier to land stun than Lina's. It can take quite a few matches to get comfy with Lina's stun if you don't have a reliable stun on the team to set hers up with.
Schweinehund
Member
Having fun playing against the 900 gpm vs that you posted. Twice in a row he's played sniper and just dominated the game. Its like people walk right into his mouth and feed him. No wonder he gets such good gpm...
Dreams-Visions
Member
man, getting rolled by a Sniper is some rage-inducing shit. I suppose because you feel like you're getting shitted on by such a lame hero.
But yea, to get to 600-1000 gpm (yea, he hit 1000gpm with shadow fiend in a match), your opponents have to do a lot of things wrong. In a lot of those matches, the other team doesn't bother to ward offensively (or defensively, for that matter), has no stuns/disables or is getting pushed so hard by the other 4 enemy heroes that they can't do anything about him if they wanted to. Even without wards, they never even bothered looking for him 95% of the time.
Even still, it's quite the fucking feat to get gpm that high, no matter how incompetent the enemy is. He really knows how to snowball early farm/kills into a nightmare.
Schweinehund
Member
I'm eating the garbage end of match making right now. The match I played against him just now, someone random'd alchemist, didn't want to repick. Then jug/drow pick, zeus, and I fleshed it out with venomancer. Some reason drow insisted to lane with jug, even though veno is infinitely superior laning partner, I got partnered with alchemist. Zeus got eat alive by sniper mid somehow and drow got no farm. I probably shouldn't get so worked about pub matches but I feel that some people play for different reasons. I'm sure my team mates were good players but they couldn't see that the heroes they were pick were just terrible in that lineup, or they just didn't care (team chat implies otherwise).
I think my highest gpm is 799 on am.
Not really. We had this discussion in spec chat one game, while QoP is probably the best overall mid, plenty of heroes go toe to toe or beat her. Stormspirit does well against her, so does tinker. SF can go toe to toe with her, same with DP. QoP beats pretty much everyone with lower range than her, but nearly every ranged can go toe to toe with her.
Dreams-Visions
Member
yea I look at that lineup and see 0 reliable stuns and 4 heroes that can be victimized if someone like Sniper can farm up some DPS fast. That's the typical recipe for him to roll a team, so I'm not surprised in the slightest he did so. I assume there were also few wards since Zeus certainly wouldn't have been able to afford any if he was feeding.
I tip my hat.
I think I watched the game where he had ~940 with AM and it was the same old same old. No stuns or disables to stop him. farmed literally all game and only came to team fights to clean up on hero last-hits. his 30 minute farm was just ridiculous. Even if I free farm all game, I'm probably never going to see 900gpm. Having the blueprint and actually doing it are two very different things.
Level up dagger and keep spamming that and at the start/early game even those heroes won't stand there though. Unless they have tons of regen.
The range on her dagger is pitifully small and cast time is no joke either. Anbokr is right, while she'll bully out most people she can't do it against everyone. Those with a ranged stun/snare/pull will be able to man up on her and turn the trade in their favor.
Also keep in mind Dagger is damage over time. In a trade where both heroes would kill the other with their all nukes, QoP would lose out every time.
Also keep in mind Dagger is damage over time. In a trade where both heroes would kill the other with their all nukes, QoP would lose out every time.
Icefrog: "NOPE."
Schweinehund
Member
i still maintain that lich is the best mid hero in terms of who will win the lane.
Nova kills gafstack: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPrLE5wodp4
Dreams-Visions
Member
I think it's hard to disagree. Being able to keep that lane near the tower an denying all that XP is just a nightmare scenario for most. Nobody wants to have to come up that hill onto the other side of the river...but you pretty much have to. Probably the least comfortable situation in the game.
Telosfortelos
Advocate for the People
Seems like getting him to put a point in march would be victory enough for the laneing phase. Obviously there are team fight and ganking advantages to going heavy march, but if it's a question of putting one point in march and still trying to be a nuke machine, I just don't see how that would work very well. I would think against TA he'd have to go march, one in laser, and everything else in missile, which is a great build, but makes laneing against him, especially with TA, a lot easier and safer. TA seems like she should be extremely strong vs tinker mid.
Edit: The gerund form of lane as a verb annoys me. Lane-ing maybe? Ugg, guess not.
Yeah her dagger is fairly short range and has like a 1 second cast time, so if you try to walk up and hit say stormspirit with that, he will get 2 auto attacks + his image drop + bonus damage auto attack, and then he can vortex you and hit you with another round of bonus salvos from his passive. If the other mid has max range and can tell when QoP wants to walk up and dagger, you can punish her hard with nukes/stuns or even just auto attacks.
QoP has a blink as well. Hit dagger and blink back to high ground and SS can't do much unless he ults up there next to the tower.
Dreams-Visions
Member
could be. I've only seen the matchup at high levels of play once. I can't remember who won, but the guy just had one level in march to counter the shield and he maxed the laser and missiles right after. I'm pretty sure Tinker won that mid and his team won that game, but idk.
Seems like if she has to keep turning on that shield and spending mana, you're taking her well out of her comfort zone. especially with missiles and that laser at the ready. But my experience is limited, so I can't comment any more meaningfully.
Tinker counters TA later when team fights start happening because march just rips off shield.
However, in the laning phase, there's no reason TA would need to turn on Refraction preemptively. She can just cast it whenever she sees a laser or missiles coming. March is useless then.
However, in the laning phase, there's no reason TA would need to turn on Refraction preemptively. She can just cast it whenever she sees a laser or missiles coming. March is useless then.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Wouldn't a Tinker want to force her to use it with lane harass? he's not going to let her freely farm, is he? Seems like if I were said Tinker, I'd want to slap her in the face with a few right-clicks, force her to use her refraction, then march and continue light harass (when not last-hitting).
No? Just seems like the game plan would be to force her into defensive play (or, defensive decision making) in as much as can be reasonably done. Her short range makes that possible for a Tinker to some degree.
eh early game offensive blinking can backfire pretty easily depending on the hero, especially if you're going to end up eating a creep wave or a stun/nuke depending on the hero. And the point is by the time you shadowstrike, you'll have taken a lot of damage, not after. So blinking defensively might delay you getting killed, but it doesn't erase the beating you took from that walk up shadowstrike. In storm's case, he'll be able to get a boosted auto on you and then a vortex while you shadowstrike :/. Guess you can blink to avoid the third image + auto, but you're not going to come out of that fight with a clear advantage.
??????
Psi blades. LOL
Unless you have 6 wards up at all times to see where the TA is gonna be at all times and avoid the cleave, she'll outharass you just by last hitting alone. Not to mention she can meld one shot you if you're not fast enough on laser or if its on cd.
PillowKnight
Member
Schweinehund
Member
If all else fails, pick Invoker mid. There is a strat where you put one point in lazer and max rockets or save points later for ganking against invoker, but I'm betting 90% of tinkers won't do that against invoker.
Invoker.
Alchemist. COUNTERS EVERYONE IN THE GAME.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Anyone else like this idea from Reddit?
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
double penetration?
Dreams-Visions
Member
Word. Yes, I've thought about the psi blades, but the reflection requires positioning, which isn't a given...whereas Tinker's right click is 100% if he's in range (ramps notwithstanding). I don't think she auto-wins the lane like you're suggesting. She certainly didn't in that pro match I saw, iirc.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
ProDota Potm vs CLG. I've been in an Enchantress mood today. 
Dreams-Visions
Member
Is there a hero that Veno + just about anyone can't dominate? Omni? Don't seem to be many, really.
Omni + Naix will just get bullied out of lane by Veno auto attacks + any other ranged hreo.
Double melee lanes are never a good idea.
I never said to stick them in the same lane, I am saying those two should not have a problem with Veno's Gale.
Yeah, Jugg is anther one, I think those are the only three characters with Level 1 Magic Immunity.
Schweinehund
Member
I like it.
I hope there's a new cinematic at TI2 that showcases all the heroes they added since TI1, and some of them that they missed.
Edit:
Also where the hell is all my lone druid cosmetics?
http://dota2.com/workshop/requirements/lonedruid
Get to work talented people.
A ton of rare items? Any weapons? Fuuuuuu
Axe is my main character at this point in time. I keep trying to go tranq boots but it just never works for me. Either no one has mana boots or i'm just a moron with tranq.
Are you on optus markot? I know they seem to have bad routing to sea.
All of ausgaf plays on SEA with no major issues. You get the random non english speaking player but i've never had issues. Plus it's always fun when they are speaking another language you don't understand
. Most do seem to get the idea of pings along with basic words.I would much prefer the lower ping than 250ish on the US servers. It's just too laggy.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Iced_Eagle
Member
You can find them at ...\Steam\steamapps\common\dota 2 beta\dota\replays\.
Yeah I went tranq boots and it kinda helped but I never had any mana, my whole team should have had mana boots but for some reason only Rubick had them while everyone else had Phase when they were mage's.
I have a pretty swag looking axe, I wish his blood chaser was better animated though so it looked like he was actually chopping them with it instead of like...whacking them. Also his new lines are horrible since either Valve messed up it's voice modifiers or they got a different VA.
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