BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
^ The justification for the education debate we've been having in this thread.
Multiple people shot at Wisconsin Sikh temple
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NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Same. I think I was the only one to mention it today outside of news facebook stuff
I am not a terrorist :-(
Or a Muslim. I misread that, sorry. I dont think I've met a turbanned Muslim in my entire life.
I don't know, it seems a pretty relevant point
It's actually very relevant as the shooter appears to have had the same assumption.
Theres even a denomination of Christians that wear turbans in Kenya.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
"Bible studies" class is not "religion" class. I guarantee a class where you learn about Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism, etc is not going to turn into stealth Christianity training.
I respect that honesty. The thing is, this killer today probably made the same assumption.
Education is the key...
Joel Was Right
Member
You don't need to know anything about a religion to know that you cannot walk up to a group of civilians, men, women and children (adherents of that faith) and gun them down. Education of any nature helps, of course, but if we take a look at race relations, for example, we see that there is still racial tension and bigoted views even in multi-racial and ethnic societies; there will always be some people that have a different view from the mass no matter what; it is human nature.
yes. though i don't understand anything about sikhism, or much about hinduism, and if i see a dude on the street with a turban i assume he's muslim, i do understand it isn't okay to shoot people. educating me about the religions of the world wouldn't change my behavior as a person.
But it may help you understand their view on life, and where they are coming from, which might make you less likely to shoot them.
hahaha. the point was that i'm not shooting anybody, regardless. some people are just crazy.
I don't mean you personally, just much of the American populace - especially people living in rural areas.
You can tell the difference in turbans by style and color, generally.
If you see blue, orange, or red in a "pointed style" it's a Sikh. I've been lucky enough to experience these cultures firsthand, though one would think understanding this distinction would be important for anyone -- especially Americans.
If you see blue, orange, or red in a "pointed style" it's a Sikh. I've been lucky enough to experience these cultures firsthand, though one would think understanding this distinction would be important for anyone -- especially Americans.
I am all for better educating people on other cultures here in the U.S., but what really bothers me is that a lot of people actually need exposure or education as a pre-requisite to considering another human being as a fellow human being. I have heard some profoundly stupid shit when it comes to muslims, arabs, gays etc... it's fucking embarrassing.
Because the victims were not white people, period.
Ultimately, yes. But there are plenty of other factors to consider, too. Tangential exposure of a blockbuster premiere, shooter still alive, more people injured/killed, how much information we have access to currently. Plus, there is always how removed this incident feels for a lot of people. How many people have been in a Sikh temple or ever even heard of Sikhs versus how many people have gone to a theater. But -- yes. You are correct.
I didn't get a single mention of this on my facebook feed, either. But I also didn't get a single mention of the Aurora shootings.
I just think that nobody on my friend's list wanted to be the bearer of bad news. And that's the reason why I didn't post anything about it, either. Everyone's posting pictures of their new car or their new dog or some funny thing.
Captain Tuttle
Member
really?
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
How did your friends feel about the Aurora shooting?
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
"Hey guys, random shootings happen everyday! I'm sure 14 people were killed in random incidents in major cities last night, some even at movie theaters!"
Sad but true. Even this thread has gone about slower than the other one. It's not an accusatory statement of any sort but I guess the majority finds it harder to empathize the more removed the victims are from them. Not trying to speak for anyone in particular, but it seems like that's the way it works.
You really think public high school teachers in the south area completely different sect of people than general populace that are so much more tolerant and fair thinking about religion ? When I was in high school they already turned biology/science class into stealth christian training, what makes you think that they wouldn't do the same to a religious class?
For this class you need a textbook right? Well guess who's going to "choose" this textbook for the majority of schools in the south...the Texas Board of Education. If you haven't read anything about them read up, it's pretty terrifying. Conservative groups that back the candidates for this board will get the textbooks to conveniently include only negative things about other religions and other such indirect tricks. They're already successfully de-emphasized Thomas Jefferson in certain areas just because they don't like him for coming up with "separation of church and state".
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
of course they aren't.
A hate crime is something you can easily process. White guy douchebag is a racist shit, goes and shoots up a bunch of *insert minority*
even if you yourself are not a racist shit, you understand the shooters motivations (in that he is a racist shit)
with the dark knight shooting, it's a whole big wtf because a random targeting of people regardless of age/appearance/religion/whatever else is much more shocking/scary. The public will wonder more, because there is no reason. It's much much more scary for the general public that is unaffected by this tragedy.
I think you guys are mistaken.
You're ignoring a bunch of other factors.
1) The Aurora shootings are indirectly related to the The Dark Knight Rises, a popular film.
2) The Aurora gunman is, at this point in time, more interesting to the public than a man whose name we don't know, whose motives we don't know, and whose end was fairly anticlimactic.
3) James Holmes boobytrapped his dorm room (or whatever it was). This guy, we don't know.
There are many things that Holmes did to catch the interest of the public eye, and many things that the media did to secure it.
Conspiracy theorists have gone to work on the Aurora shootings, creating accomplices, linking the event to political groups with agendas, calling Holmes some kind of brainwashed Manchurian candidate, etc.
Also, and this is going to sound harsh, the Aurora shootings took place in Colorado, while this shooting took place in Wisconsin. In terms of salience, Colorado stands out more than Wisconsin.
Additionally, today's shootings took place during the Olympic events. No way in hell that NBC would cut coverage short for the shootings after all the money they've spent to secure rights to it. As I was flipping through local channels to find news coverage, I came across some kind of formula 1 racing event and a few other things. It was just poor timing.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Yeah I was going to say something similar. However I think it's fair to say that if it was a church that got attacked by someone that hated christians the response would be much different.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
Well Christians have massive political sway in USA, so yes I guess it would. Christians are also a majority, while Sikhism is minority. By definition interest in it will be... minor in comparison.
I don't really see anything to get outraged about in this case. Seems major news outlets have picked it up and are following it and more news will be made as soon as it develops.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
I'm not advocating outrage, it's just the way things are. Like you say it happened to a minority so theres less interest and it's easier for the majority to shrug off. I'm not disagreeing with anything you said, just being realistic.
victreeb3l
Member
there will probably more talking when they reveal the dudes face, name, motives and so on. i was definitely surprised how most people didnt really gave a crap though. maybe people are just burnt out since this was just 2 weeks after aurora or something
I am a Sikh and i am absolutely furious at this event. What is annoying is that the Aurora gunman was identified within hours and this happened almost 16 hrs ago and still we have no information regarding the person and his reason behind this.
EDIT: I hadnt read through this thread but i guess i am not the only person annoyed at this.
EDIT: I hadnt read through this thread but i guess i am not the only person annoyed at this.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yes.
And I think there is truth to the idea that people around here empathize more with the Batman movie theater incident than this one affecting some religious "other."
It's the same reason why the Japanese tsunami was this arresting moment on GAF, while other disasters in third world countries can go virtually unnoticed.
Both Batman and Japan were relevant to our interests (and not just GAF, but mainstream westerners, geeks, etc).
But I ain't finger wagging.... I think there's something blameless about the fact that people find people closer to their interests more of a story. That's just the way it is. I think people care about this sikh incident... but it just feels unavoidably more distant to our experiences.
(for the record I am educated about Sikhs and I consider them good people. I dined at one of their free lunches the other day. This did shock me).
Man, I've been staring at this reply to thread screen at some time. I don't even know. Just sad, I guess.
I want to say something anti-guns, but I don't want to bring politics into this feeling, it's just that... man, what the hell, crazy people can acquire a machine that allow them to kill people by pressing a button. Take away the cultural aspect of guns and that's just it, human life is already so damn fragile and we've come to a point where crazy people can end it through the act of purchasing a piece of metal.
And no, it's not like a fucking knife or some crazy scenario where someone is making a bomb with fertilizers.
Someone pays a little money to have on their hand the power to end a lot of human lives. This is crazy. I don't mean to preach, I'm just really sad.
Sorry if I sound stupid.
I want to say something anti-guns, but I don't want to bring politics into this feeling, it's just that... man, what the hell, crazy people can acquire a machine that allow them to kill people by pressing a button. Take away the cultural aspect of guns and that's just it, human life is already so damn fragile and we've come to a point where crazy people can end it through the act of purchasing a piece of metal.
And no, it's not like a fucking knife or some crazy scenario where someone is making a bomb with fertilizers.
Someone pays a little money to have on their hand the power to end a lot of human lives. This is crazy. I don't mean to preach, I'm just really sad.
Sorry if I sound stupid.
MisterNugNug
Member
The police and authorities haven't released that information yet. A press conference is scheduled for the morning.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I'm also Hindu, but I know plenty of sikhs. Truly some of the most calm and peaceful people I've ever known.
This kind of attack is just shameful.
This is the sad truth.
Maybe it's because I'm Indian, but I can spot a sikh (in traditional garb) from a mile away. There's nothing remotely confusing between a muslim and a sikh.
victreeb3l
Member
reports say its a tall white dude, ex military. no names or photos have been released and well know more later this morning
yep. they look nothing alike. though i can understand why non-desis can be confused
Pending clarification on this guys motives, there is a bitter taste that lingers which stems from the fact that Sikhism started and flourished during a time of great suffering under Mughal rule in India.
Although there were many instances of an excellent relationship with Islam and other faiths (our holy book contains writings from Muslim, Hindu and other non-Sikh holy men / scholars / philosophers and the foundation stone of the Golden Temple was laid by a Muslim) in it's infancy, it struggled against the more extreme proponents of Islam and grew strong despite many, many tragedies inflicted upon them.
If this guy has assumed turban>terrorist then he couldn't be further from the truth - these guys dealt with extremism before the US ever existed, never mind 911.
Although there were many instances of an excellent relationship with Islam and other faiths (our holy book contains writings from Muslim, Hindu and other non-Sikh holy men / scholars / philosophers and the foundation stone of the Golden Temple was laid by a Muslim) in it's infancy, it struggled against the more extreme proponents of Islam and grew strong despite many, many tragedies inflicted upon them.
If this guy has assumed turban>terrorist then he couldn't be further from the truth - these guys dealt with extremism before the US ever existed, never mind 911.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
I agree, though I think its more because seeing Batman or any movie in general is more relateable. So it makes the crime seem kinda worse (you can imagine the darkness of the theater,being pinned down by the seating arrangements, the high spirits of the people before it happened,etc)
But that doesn't excuse the "news" complete lack of coverage, or people not caring.
For better or worse, we all empathise with different things.
I think people are just waiting for more information.
Once they release the killer's name, which will lead to reporters digging up background information on the asshole, discussion will pick up.
Al-ibn Kermit
Junior Member
Well all the news sites seem to have this on the front page right now. We'll have to wait at least a few days to judge how much media attention it's getting relative to the Batman shooting
To me, this seems more significant than the TDK premiere shooting since it is an actual terrorist attack that ended up falling onto the WRONG RELIGIOUS GROUP. It's also possibly motivated by the same type of rhetoric that made Jared Lee Loughner shoot congresswoman Giffords which says a lot about the conservative party of today.
It's definitely going to be interesting to see how news outlets and politicians react to this story over the next week.
Pardon my ignorance, but how do you know any of that stuff?
Was the killer shouting anti-Muslim rhetoric to the people in the Sikh temple?
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
Man, all anyone knows about the guy is that he's a dead white guy, and possible Army veteran with a 9-11 tattoo.
Joel Was Right
Member
CBS News confirms WI shooter identity: Wade Michael Page, age 40. He was US Army veteran. No longer active duty. He was 'heavily' tattooed, and reportedly also broke up with his partner recently.
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
Eyewitnesses say there was not shouting or anything by the shooter, just shooting.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
In Jared Lee Loughners case it was because he was insane and obsessed over grammar.
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