Delver was definitely the best deck to play pre-M13. Not anymore. It's got some really ugly matchups now.
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Magic: The Gathering |OT|
- Thread starter The Technomancer
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Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
This is a dark day in the game of magic.
2012 seems like it will be the end of the world now. I must buy zombie cards to destroy them.
crimsonspider89
Banned
Not even pre M13. M13 gave Delver Talrand. But pre M13 they had R/G midrange, WR, Pod, and frites that all gave it problems. It won due to amount.
And when SoM rotates delver is going to get strong yet again. As is tokens. A lot of the token control is going bye bye.
And when SoM rotates delver is going to get strong yet again. As is tokens. A lot of the token control is going bye bye.
The problem is that Delver requires a lot of high wire marginal play that's simply beyond the majority of the playerbase. You need to be very good to see success w/ the deck because it's way easier to play Delver "wrong" than other decks in the format.
I don't know if Delver will be poised in rotation. I mean the titans going away are going to be a huge hit for sure for the decks that run them but Delver loses all the free Phyrexian mana spells in addition to Vapor Snag, Ponder and Mana Leak. It really all depends on what RTR has.
narcosis219
Member
Deal breaker right there. Delver needs to be flipped right away or else all your tempo fades.
Unless there is another card that will let you fix that trigger (I'm not sure Index will do the job), then he will be way weaker.
It's kind of sad that the entire set will suffer because of a single problem card.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Gut shots really go for $5 on MTGO? Ugh, so many weird cards are like 3x or more the price of the actual card.
Delver probably loses the most of any deck bar Wolf Run losing Prime Time. Ponder, Vapor Snag (Unsummon isn't as good) and Gitaxian Probe are key cards that have no good replacements.
Index is stone cold unplayable as it doesn't draw or get rid of cards you don't want.
I've bought most of a Pauper deck, need to find a bot with Compulsive Research and Mystical Teachings.
narcosis219
Member
Running a post deck?
Set Redemptions + 60 Uncommon small set = yeeeeaahhhh......
Going to try, looks like the sort of deck I want to play although probably not the best starting point for a newcomer to the format.
It's annoying trying all these bots and when I actually get one available it doesn't have what I need.
narcosis219
Member
Yeah, the worst is when they're missing all but 1 and you'll have to crack a whole ticket on another bot for a 0.04 ticket purchase. =(
divisionbyzorro
Member
Yeah, Delver and Wolf Run Ramp are going bye bye. I think we're going to see a lot of zombies and tokens post rotation, with some midrange decks coming after them with Bonfires (I actually have this feeling that we could see Jund midrange become a thing depending upon what Rakdos and Golgari bring us).
Tokens are going to be interesting to watch. They lose Honor of the Pure, which is huge, but Ratchet Bomb is gone. They could move to Esper to pick up Favorable Winds, but we can also assume that they'll get some support from Selesnya, so maybe they go GBW.
Personally, I'm just hoping control players get some support in RtR and don't have to wait for GC to get useful tools. Hopefully I find the time to play my beloved Grixis deck in a proper online tournament before it gets gutted by rotation; there just aren't any good replacements for Whipflare and Slagstorm in Innistrad. I pray every day for this and this to get reprinted in RtR.
Yeah me to. I just played some Pauper with narcosis using Izzet8Post, it makes me really hope I will be able to cast Desperate Ravings in a competitive deck in a more regular format.
Pyroclasm would definitely but a good reprint that I think the format will need, there is apparently a new UR Jace and a new Niv-Mizzet so I might get my wish.
I'm staying away from Standard online for now, but I am still considering getting a playset of Snapcasters and Sulfur Falls in preparation. The first list I try in the new Standard will definitely have:
4 Sulfur Falls
1 Desolate Lighthouse
2-4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Desperate Ravings
2-4 Think Twice
2-4 Pillar of Flame
Would add black if they print anything good like Terminate as you say, or perhaps splash green for Thragtusk.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Burning Vengeance is a deck that players have been trying to make competitive for a while now, and they've got a lot of interesting variations here: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=403758. It's another one of those decks that almost entirely survives rotation, so it could be worth considering as a rogue deck, and Izzet might bring some fun tools come RtR.
I have a UR variant that I play around with every now and then, mostly because I like having a deck that has an excuse to run Tibalt. Even though most BV players say he's not worth it, I feel like the little devil needs somebody to appreciate him.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Ah, forgot about redeeming cards. Still lame, so many cards that are rotating and that makes even shitty infect like $100 for me to bulid. :/ I guess I'll seriously have to wait until everything rotates which is frustrating.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
LOL, strangleroot geist vs. blight mamba deadlock is funny.
BlewHedgehog
Member
Pretty exciting day at my LGS.
On the way to the Salvation Army to donate his collection, a guy with binders and boxes full of cards happens to drive by and see the shop, where he's thrilled to be offered $300 by the owner. Once the guy is gone, the owner calls us up to look at the haul which includes probably 30ish duals, Library of Alexandria, a beta Time Vault, more than a dozen Force of Wills and tons of other high profile cards through around Exodus. One dude at the store immediately spent $600 on two FoW, two Volcanic Island, a couple Wastelands and a pair of sealed Revised boosters ($50 per, he didn't open shit). Being a ridiculous sucker for Mirage block, I forked over some good money for some mint playsets of Natural Order, Vampiric Tutor, and Undiscovered Paradise. Part of the collection came in those officially licensed MtG long boxes with King Cheetah on them, and the employees let me take them.
Some of the coolest things we found weren't cards. There was a mailed invitation to the first Pro Tour. In a binder, with what must have been a complete set before the employees tore it apart, was a full spoiler of Alliances along with an email advertizing preorders of Helm of Obedience for $12 and Balduvian Horde at $21. Maybe Bonfire isn't all that ridiculous after all.
Anyway, pretty sweet. Wish that guy had donated and I'd been the one to find it at Goodwill though.
On the way to the Salvation Army to donate his collection, a guy with binders and boxes full of cards happens to drive by and see the shop, where he's thrilled to be offered $300 by the owner. Once the guy is gone, the owner calls us up to look at the haul which includes probably 30ish duals, Library of Alexandria, a beta Time Vault, more than a dozen Force of Wills and tons of other high profile cards through around Exodus. One dude at the store immediately spent $600 on two FoW, two Volcanic Island, a couple Wastelands and a pair of sealed Revised boosters ($50 per, he didn't open shit). Being a ridiculous sucker for Mirage block, I forked over some good money for some mint playsets of Natural Order, Vampiric Tutor, and Undiscovered Paradise. Part of the collection came in those officially licensed MtG long boxes with King Cheetah on them, and the employees let me take them.
Some of the coolest things we found weren't cards. There was a mailed invitation to the first Pro Tour. In a binder, with what must have been a complete set before the employees tore it apart, was a full spoiler of Alliances along with an email advertizing preorders of Helm of Obedience for $12 and Balduvian Horde at $21. Maybe Bonfire isn't all that ridiculous after all.
Anyway, pretty sweet. Wish that guy had donated and I'd been the one to find it at Goodwill though.
Get a Pauper deck instead in the meantime!
My Izzet deck is a lot of fun to play but I sometimes feel bad grinding people out with it and making them quit. I barely ever go below 5 cards in hand. Just played some guy who was using an enchantment deck, he quit when I buyback Capsize'd a creature to destroy two enchantments.
divisionbyzorro
Member
I plan to pre-invest in Innistrad rares here pretty soon. The last thing I need is those cards to shoot up in value when rotation hits. Things like CotP, zombie staples, Cavern, Restoration Angel; all of these are things that I haven't bothered to pick up yet, but I know I need to...
I didn't even know they took card collections at Goodwill, but damn, what a "score". Guy got shafted out of thousands and didn't even know it.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Are there standard pauper decks? Or is it mostly modern? I think I saw you post a link before and it was all modern looking decks? I just don't know most cards in modern so it's a lot harder to know how to play.
Ya, I'm torn because I invest too heavily in the physical so I don't want to buy rares without having a purpose for them. If I could get 1-2 decent decks that will last I would enjoy the luxury of playing whenever I felt like it.
It's any common ever, minus a small ban list. I don't know many cards either but the net decks are cheap. This is a great article that lists all the competitive decks and roughly what they cost.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Ah, that actually sounds interesting. I'll definitely have to look more into it now.
narcosis219
Member
I would highly recommend investing in Innistrad duals before RTR hits. When Shocklands get reprinted in RTR they will enable some sick two and three color decks of all combinations and I expect the INN duals to go up in price since nobody will be opening up new product any more.
Yea now is definitely the time. I'd hit up cheap rares too, since you never know whats going to hit big with the rotation and new set.
Yep, lots of cheap goodies that have potential to takeoff.
If a MBC archetype is still possible after rotation I expect Mikeaus the Unhallowed to be run in it. Right now the titans just outclass him but after rotation he's a really sick 6 drop.
Keru_Shiri
Member
I can see Drogskol Reaver taking the place of Consecrated Sphinx in some decks. Especially if RtR represents a shift back to slower control-based decks.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Don't worry, zombies aren't an archetype in pauper
I totally read that as zombies ARE an archetype in pauper. I was about to throw my keyboard.
He's a zombie, so... No.
I remember telling a friend this when the card was spoiled. We'll see. 7-mana is a ton though.
FieryBalrog
Member
Wow. Is EDH all about graveyard shenanigans or is it just 99% about graveyard shenanigans?
Need moar hate. Off to buy a Night Soil for 15 cents on TCG
Need moar hate. Off to buy a Night Soil for 15 cents on TCG
The last time I played EDH :
(bear with me here, I do not know the names of the cards that were played)
Someone played a card that had everyone count the number of permanents they controlled, shuffle their hand and everything in play into their libraries, then draw that number of cards, and put all permanents in to play.
THEN
Someone played a card that copied that spell. FIVE TIMES.
jasldkfjaklsjdfsajk
(bear with me here, I do not know the names of the cards that were played)
Someone played a card that had everyone count the number of permanents they controlled, shuffle their hand and everything in play into their libraries, then draw that number of cards, and put all permanents in to play.
THEN
Someone played a card that copied that spell. FIVE TIMES.
jasldkfjaklsjdfsajk
Keru_Shiri
Member
Warp World / Hive Mind? I had a deck filled with those things too, but it was only funny, like, the first time or so. It didn't take long for it to get old. I am looking into making a better, funnier version of the deck.
True, but I'm hoping exiting Titans means the 6 CMC slot isn't nearly as bonkers, and frees up some room above. Then again, we have 5 CMC Thundermaw and Thragtusk so maybe not.OnPoint said:
Yes, I think that was the combo. It was definitely Warp World on the stack like 6 times. Took 20 minutes for them to resolve cause we were playing with 4 or 5 people.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I have a friend who had a sixty card deck that used a recurring three-card combo to play Warp World as many times as he liked in a turn to get an optimal board state. It wasn't unusual for us to warp four or five times in a row. My favorite game against that deck was running an R/G Eldrazi ramp deck, because lots of my creatures made spawn tokens, so the number of permanents I was fetching from WW kept ticking up.
Yeah there is a lot of graveyard shenanigans in EDH.
Your best friends are going to be:
Artifact:
Relic of Progenitus: 1 drop that has a slow effect but can pay one to pop it to exile ALL graveyards and draws you a card.
Tormod's Crypt: 0 drop but only targets one player's graveyard.
Grafdigger's Cage: 1 drop that says creatures can't enter the battlefield from graveyards or libraries.
Land:
Bojuka Bog: Only for black decks but ETBT black producing land that exiles a single player's graveyard.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Just because it's the theme, I've built a deck that utterly hoses the now-popular zombie builds. It's (unsurpringly) W/B and artifacts. It can also win against other aggro decks. I'll post it up later.
I love all the crazy things that happen in EDH. Yesterday I steamrolled everyone with an army of Spawnwrithe tokens.
Also, my brother got me to make a 50 card singleton Modern deck. I now appreciate Lux Cannon's flavour text:
Next game I milled him out in one turn with Voltaic Key/Unwinding Clock/Grindclock shenanigans. Charge counter abuse is so much fun.
EDIT: If you're playing green and got the Ghave precon, Scavenging Ooze is also pretty good for stopping graveyard abuse. Too bad it's $30-40 normally.
Also, my brother got me to make a 50 card singleton Modern deck. I now appreciate Lux Cannon's flavour text:
I had Lux Cannon, Sculpting Steel copying it, and Unwinding Clock out, so Lux Cannon was going of nearly every turn. As soon as my brother played something threatening, it would just get lasered - eventually he just gave up.Lux Cannon said:
Next game I milled him out in one turn with Voltaic Key/Unwinding Clock/Grindclock shenanigans. Charge counter abuse is so much fun.
EDIT: If you're playing green and got the Ghave precon, Scavenging Ooze is also pretty good for stopping graveyard abuse. Too bad it's $30-40 normally.
Gatekeeper
Member
I will bet an Underground Sea your store owner just bought a stolen collection.
FieryBalrog
Member
I am in fact playing green and did get the Ghave precon! And he's my general, lol. Though, the deck is mostly non-precon cards, as it's the EDH deck I actually bothered to bling out. I do have an Ooze, and he's good but mana intensive. I didn't draw him anyway. I just need more GY hate. I'll probably stick in Night Soil and Relic of Progenitus. I like Night Soil because a) it's an enchantment, and while D Tutor, V Tutor and E Tutor all get both, Rector and Idyllic only get enchantments (also, Replenish), b) it works well with the token theme and c) the exiling is a cost, so once it's in play and you have priority, no one can respond to the exiling.
Relic is good because it's just cheap and replaces itself.
I wish there were more enchantments that were great GY hate. Wheel of Sun and Moon is good in some other formats, but I don't think it's that good in EDH because often by the time you find it and get it into play its effect is way too late. Ground Seal doesn't stop some of the stuff I want it to (like Karador, mainly) while also hosing some of my cards (Puppeteer Clique, Regrowth, etc.)
BlewHedgehog
Member
That definitely came up in conversation. The guy introduced himself as a name that matched the one on the PT invite. Either a crazy coincidence or this guy dug very deep to cover his tracks. All the binders the cards were in were from an engineering business of some sort. I'm betting the guy was just Scrooge McDuck and his wife wanted the stuff out of the house.
I totally forgot Nihil Spellbomb. Another 1 drop single-graveyard exiler that also replaces itself for a mere black mana more.
Yea it's probably fair to say that 99% is about graveyard shenanigans since it makes your deck resilient to sweepers, which are prevalent in EDH. Especially my Sharuum the Hegemon and Karador, ghost chieftain + kamigawa spirits decks like abusing the graveyard like it's a second hand of cards to play. But me and some of friends have a couple of monocolored decks that barely do anything with the graveyard. Like they have a Krenko goblin deck, Thada Adell "give me your stuff, thanks" deck, Darien king of kjeldor drowns you in tokens deck...
Recently I've built a arcanis the omnipotent deck, I didn't have a win condition in mind but apparently having Karn liberated and lighthouse chronologist out, then playing sunder is enough to force my friends to give up (even before I played the time reversal I had in hand).
By the way do any of you have the problem of being seen as the arch-enemy of the table in EDH, even if you barely have anything on the table?
divisionbyzorro
Member
The cantrip is the best part of that thing. I'm really going to miss it.
When Tormod's Crypt was spoiled, there was a lot of complaints about Wizards printing such an efficient graveyard hoser, but from my perspective Nihil Spellbomb is just better. It's actually maindeckable, which means that you have a slightly better edge in game one against a graveyard heavy deck than you otherwise would have (since Tormod's Crypt is complete sideboard material).
FieryBalrog
Member
Yeah. Sadly my Ghave deck has only minimal GY shenanigans, yet even my strongest play that game was using Puppeteer Clique on the Karador guy's Runescarred Demon to fetch Replenish to get back Sylvan Library, Doubling Season and Mana Reflection.
Then next turn of course Karador went infinite with Reveillark-Viscera Seer-Karmic Guide.
I mean I do have an infinite combo or two of my own (Ghave-Doubling Season-Ashnod's Altar, for example) but it's a lot less resilient because of yeah, sweepers.
My other EDH deck is an Arcanis deck and I'm building a Darien deck. lol
Arcanis was literally blue cards I had laying around my binder that I've slowly started upgrading with better stuff like Bribery and Vedalken Shackles. I like monocolored EDH decks because I'm not tempted to include duals or better mana fixing.I guess it is cool to get that stuff, but is really a pretty shit move by the LGS. They could have at least offered 75% of SCG buy prices to the guy. Personally, I wouldn't go there anymore knowing they don't mind ripping people off.
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