There are actually quite a few pro-life Dems. It really fucked up the health care reform debate because it took a bunch of pandering to get them on board.
GOP set to adopt official abortion platform without exceptions for rape and incest
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oh they'll take it as far as they can so they can be permanent so they can hold it over their voters.
The problem with abortion is that compromise is almost impossible to attain.
The pro-choice people are like "It's my body, I shouldn't have to compromise."
While the anti-choice people believe "It's a life! You can't end it!"
Add to this list health care. If the pregnancy and all care after for you and your child for the rest of your life is something you don't have to worry about (or at least is much less of a big deal), then that makes keeping the child a much much easier option.
Devolution
Member
Also our health care sucks and you want more women pregnant? Fuck off GOP.
Just had a look at Gallup's polling on Abortion. It makes me a sad panda ..
Dems / The Left need to start fucking owning the pro-choice position with some fierce advocacy asap.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx
That pole doesn't necessarily suggest that most people want to outlaw abortion entirely. This graph is way more telling:
Nobody is suggesting that mold is more valuable than a fetus.
What is being explained is that the fetus requires the inside of another human being in order to develop. A human that, undeniably, is developed and has a full set of rights.
We don't allow adults to take another persons organs to live. Why should we make an exception for a fetus, that isn't even conscious of its own existence, to do the same?
Abortion effects no living human being expect the woman who is having it.
krypt0nian
Banned
Haven't you seen? They all have adopted at least one unwanted child, giving serious weight to their extreme opinions.
Freezie KO
Banned
I support universal healthcare, but you just made an excellent argument against it.
Ignoring that sperms and eggs (and all other cells) can all be attributed to one person, I'm more curious... did you really mean the 14th DAY? And how did you come to that conclusion?
The official GOP stance is that the government should be small and unobtrusive for white, straight, affluent Christian males. Everyone else can get trickled on.
The Conservatives were the ones to initiate the reductionist argument re: abortion.
Women can develop cysts on their ovaries that can grow hair and teeth and sometimes body parts like eyes and limbs.
Nobody weeps for those life forms though, because they don't get votes. They've got all the base cells for human life, why not force a woman to not be able to get surgery to remove something they don't want to carry around in their body?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teratoma
NullPointer
Member
I don't settle on 14 days but otherwise this is exactly where I fall in this. Its life (at some point), its human, and its fate is in the woman's hands.
I can honestly sympathize with those who would take the perspective of a potential life and seek to protect it at all costs, but that ultimately ends up going directly against a woman's right to her own body. If Republicans and like minded people are truly serious about keeping abortions to the bare minimum (as they would still occur no matter the laws of the land) they should support sex education, adoption and contraception use.
Fun fact: Before the 20th century, abortions were much more common. There was always a high risk of the mother and unborn child dying, so it would sometimes really be the best choice to get an abortion.
Since those times medicine and medical information has obviously gotten exponentially better.
So now to my point, if a woman feels she doesn't have the funds, time, or even love to foster a child, why can't they even have a choice for them to safely make sure they don't birth the child? And to those coming from the angle of "Well, they're killing an unborn baby", if you feel that way, my response would be the woman has to live with that, it's their choice and that woman will live with what they decided.
Calling it a unborn baby is disingenuous though.
Since those times medicine and medical information has obviously gotten exponentially better.
So now to my point, if a woman feels she doesn't have the funds, time, or even love to foster a child, why can't they even have a choice for them to safely make sure they don't birth the child? And to those coming from the angle of "Well, they're killing an unborn baby", if you feel that way, my response would be the woman has to live with that, it's their choice and that woman will live with what they decided.
Calling it a unborn baby is disingenuous though.
Huh? How so? Oh noes kids will have health!? Oh noes people will be able to have children when they want to have children without having to worry about whether in the next year they could get ill and go bankrupt and will no longer be able to feed this new child? I don't get it...
St. Augustine and his contemporaries held that life didn't begin until the quickening (when the mother could feel it move).
That leads to what I call the St. Augustine compromise. For 3 months no restrictions on abortions at all. You have 3 months to decide. After that some restrictions apply.
I personally think it's a good first step to start a healthier dialogue but like I said, neither side will ever compromise.
Mercury Fred
Banned
Yes, they are. And?
As someone who watches American politics from afar, it boggles my mind why the following demographics would ever vote Republican:
Woman
Lower to Middle class workers
Ethnic minorities (esp. black)
Gay or transgender
Non-Christian
People with empathy
Surely there aren't enough religious, rich white guys throughout the country to account for the votes they get. So what gives?
Woman
Lower to Middle class workers
Ethnic minorities (esp. black)
Gay or transgender
Non-Christian
People with empathy
Surely there aren't enough religious, rich white guys throughout the country to account for the votes they get. So what gives?
Salacious Crumb
Junior Member
Only one side is trying force their view on everyone.
Freezie KO
Banned
You were inferring that taxpayer-supported healthcare would encourage more people to actually have the children that they clearly couldn't support already. I'd prefer the abortion.
ElectricBlue187
Member
Don't know why you say there will never be a compromise. Pro-lifers will happily accept anything that moves the date back, even a day. Why wouldn't we? If the choice is that or nothing at all, that's an easy one to make. Wasn't there a compromise made about late-term abortion bans just, like, eight years ago (even though some voted against it, because they're super-caring)?
Femmeworth
Banned
Fuck the GOP.
Devolution
Member
=/.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
They should give unlimited supplies of condoms then
H.Protagonist
[-_-]/
This country is turning into a damned scary place for women. It's so infuriating to hear these guys (and unfortunately some women too) go on and on about what we should or shouldn't be able to do with our bodies. They don't have to carry it, don't have to deal with it and certainly don't want to pay for it. Un-fucking believable. I want to believe this election will go the sane route and they'll be routed, but I'm terrified that somehow they'll take it. Absolutely terrified.
NullPointer
Member
yeeeeeeeeep.
Devolution
Member
I recall reading maternal mortality rates are on the rise again too. Sorry to make it even more scary.
I think of healthcare as more of an unknown burden that could burst at any time. That's what I was talking about. If you take the unknown out of that, then people will be able to make that choice.
People unfortuately have this misguided idea that the GOP stands for AMERICA(fuck yeah.) So a lot of patriotism and nostalgia is interwoven with it. People also live under the illusion that one day, they will be part of the upper crust. So they vote against their own peoples interests, as when they make it big, they want to pay less taxes.
Its sad.
They've gotta be deliberately tanking the elections so they don't have to deal with the economy. Either that or they've just gone batshit insane, because they will not win the general election with this position.
Don't you know condoms are made by the devil, as is sex education.
H.Protagonist
[-_-]/
I'm sure cutting funding and access to women's health facilities has nothing to do with that. Absolutely nothing.
SteveWinwood
Member
Wait did you just say that ovarian cysts don't have dna?
I dunno, there's been a ton of abortion bills from the Republican-led house.
Late-term abortions were banned under Bush. He also prohibited federal funding to foreign establishments that allowed abortions. Obama reversed this. Not to mention the importance of Supreme Court nominees in all this.
Romney is no white knight of the pro-life movement, but there are things to consider if this is an issue you care about. Romney may do whatever is politically convenient, but Obama is pro-choice and not going to falter.
Karma Kramer
Banned
Lol does the GOP want to lose? Only reason I can guess why they'd rather lose seats is if some sort of economic bubble is on the horizon.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
But Planned Parenthood is evil and an abortion machine!
Because you don't like killing babies?
Devolution
Member
Pretty much. In the last 20 years there has been a widespread shut down and defunding of clinics. I'm sure this has nothing to do with it either.
Uh, because the tone of the debate. You're not going to get compromise from a group that:
1) Doesn't feel they should compromise with you
2) Technically doesn't have to compromise with you
3) Feels like a compromise would be giving up their rights
4) Are routinely called slutty and baby killers by the group that wants them to compromise.
Basic negotiation. Just like America is not mature enough to have Universal Healthcare, they're also not mature enough to answer the abortion question.
Where? My wife had a c-section two years ago it was about 24k.
NullPointer
Member
Contraception subverts the sovereignty of God, I shit you not.
Invade fewer countries then.
How about if you don't like hyperbole mixed with doublespeak?
It's really that much? Jesus christ I'm never going to have a kid at this rate
Devolution
Member
I don't know. I read it off some march of dimes thing. Everyone I've talked to has said it's about 25k though. I guess some people with awesome coverage drive it down or some bullshit.
SteveWinwood
Member
Oh come the fuck on.
What about killing thousands of civilians in wars? What are your moral thoughts on that?
It isn't your place to tell another person what to do with their body, you do understand that? Right? A United States Citizen has the right to control their body. Right?
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