TacticalFox88
Banned
Even if you weren't half joking, we don't have even close to the numbers to provide for such a "war"
GOP set to adopt official abortion platform without exceptions for rape and incest
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Even if you weren't half joking, we don't have even close to the numbers to provide for such a "war"
That's what happens when you get all snobbish with people instead of trying to be comprehensive.
Seriously atheists couldn't appear more elitist if they actually wore tophats and monocles.
Ok now you're attacking me for how I dress?
Yes, if you're wearing a tophat at least ditch the jean-tshirt and sport a tux!
Mama Robotnik
Member
Asking from the UK:
Is there any chance that these maniacs could actually win your next election?
Is there any chance that these maniacs could actually win your next election?
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
That America is a real place, and that these are individuals that wield plenty of power terrifies me. It is by large the most powerful evidence there can be found of the western world getting stupider. I just can't. I don't know what to do. What do we do with these people? Kill them? Educating them seems impossible.
Oppo
Member
It's very typically a conservative trait to go with a personal opinion ("snob"), rather than a substantive fact-based position.
In other words, yes some atheists may in fact be insufferable snobs. But they also happen to be corrent about a lot of things, with the means to back it up.
When speaking of things like legislatively-blocked abortion, I will take the fucking snob over the psycho clergy.
edit- behold the atheist!
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
They will most certainly retain the House, probably won't win the Senate, and the Presidency is up in the air, although current polls favor Obama.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Is there really anything that prompt not using birth control?
The only thing I can think of is abstinence based sexual ed, and expensive&uncomfortable birth control.
The solution is an effective sexual education, and cheap and new types of birth control (like that male birth control pill or injection).
It's very typically a conservative trait to go with a personal opinion ("snob"), rather than a substantive fact-based position.
In other words, yes some atheists may in fact be insufferable snobs. But they also happen to be corrent about a lot of things, with the means to back it up.
When speaking of things like legislatively-blocked abortion, I will take the fucking snob over the psycho clergy.
edit- behold the atheist!
Holy shit you're actually accusing me of being a conservative?
If you put me in yogurt it would rot in an instant!
The thing I meant was that atheists not being enough to form an army is normal since they go to great length to act as dickish as they can so yeah they won't win any heart anywhere.
Regarding abortion why would anyone ask priests who can't even fucking marry for that?
Why not ask an astrophysist for advice on medical advice while you're at it?
Labombadog
Member
Last night after hanging out with some friends. I was driving home and saw a billboard that said "Obama supports gay marriage and abortion. Do you? Vote Republican".
I'm sure plenty of people are eating this up.
I'm sure plenty of people are eating this up.
here's my take on the GOP platform - All life is precious, a minority woman's less so. The government protects you for the first nine months of life starting at conception; after that it will fuck you repeatedly till you die. The frequency of the latter is inverse to one's net worth.
soul creator
Member
has it already been mentioned that RvW was already the "compromise"?
In the early stages of a pregnancy, the woman's life takes precedence (since a fetus is completely dependent on her body). As the pregnancy continues, it gradually slides in the direction of weighing both the woman's life, and the fetus. At the point where the fetus is more likely to survive independent of the woman, that's where abortion rights get more restricted.
And since that "point" where this happens is somewhat nebulous, the best people to determine that are, shock and awe, the woman who's actually pregnant, and her doctor. Women are not walking into the doctor's office at 8 months pregnant for shits and giggles and getting abortions for the fun of it. I don't think there's some huge demand for that either.
So for all the people wanting "compromise" on this issue that takes into account the interests of the woman (being an already existing sentient being) and the interests of the "developing person", that was already done 30 years ago.
So what are we arguing about again?
In the early stages of a pregnancy, the woman's life takes precedence (since a fetus is completely dependent on her body). As the pregnancy continues, it gradually slides in the direction of weighing both the woman's life, and the fetus. At the point where the fetus is more likely to survive independent of the woman, that's where abortion rights get more restricted.
And since that "point" where this happens is somewhat nebulous, the best people to determine that are, shock and awe, the woman who's actually pregnant, and her doctor. Women are not walking into the doctor's office at 8 months pregnant for shits and giggles and getting abortions for the fun of it. I don't think there's some huge demand for that either.
So for all the people wanting "compromise" on this issue that takes into account the interests of the woman (being an already existing sentient being) and the interests of the "developing person", that was already done 30 years ago.
So what are we arguing about again?
Looks like the discussion shifted from abortion of pregnancies caused by rape or incest to pregnancies where development of fetus becomes abnormal to development abnormalities that may produce life threatening condition for the mother to simply getting rid of unwanted pregnancies regardless of aforementioned prerequisites.
Like some others have said here, to republicans, this hollerin' about rights and sanctity of developing fetus comes to an end with its birth. So there is a deliberate lack of foresight as this issue has been demagogued by the republicans to hell and back for only political gains.
If hardcore pro-lifers really cared they'd use more of the carrot rather than their current position of using nothing but the stick.
Like some others have said here, to republicans, this hollerin' about rights and sanctity of developing fetus comes to an end with its birth. So there is a deliberate lack of foresight as this issue has been demagogued by the republicans to hell and back for only political gains.
If hardcore pro-lifers really cared they'd use more of the carrot rather than their current position of using nothing but the stick.
So what are we arguing about again?
I have absolutely no idea, it's so backward to go back on this...
It feels like someone summoned the spirit of the 70's all of a sudden.
I wonder if they would want to go back to before the civil right movement too if they could...
Oppo
Member
No no, don't get me wrong. Just something I noticed. It seems to be a conservative trait to lean heavily on what is considered a likeable personality by other conservatives. Personality/style of delivery seems to go a really long way with Republicans. Conversely, I find that when you hear about a conservative talk about humanist types, it's within this Portlandia stereotype that makes me wonder which annoying aethist they met that has become the template for all, in their mind. Make sense?
Again, "dickish", personality observation right? Whereas I'm inclined to believe someone who may well be a dick (see: Chris Hitchens) but tends to be able to back up the argument with considered points.
As accurate a description as any I've seen. Id be a lot more inclined to take the "culture of life" stuff at face value if they were also anti-dealth penalty.scorcho said:
acheron_xl
Member
Rand Paul has put his foot in his mouth over this kind of shit before.
One of the saddest things about all of this is that half the politicians probably don't even believe what they're peddling, they just do it because it gets people excited and gives them press. But that's politics for you.
I get what you're saying but you know what they say :
A strawman makes for an awesome punching bag.
I think I'm more baffled by the stance that basically blame all the ills of the world to religion when it's really people that are to blame.
I mean in the end it's really just a culture trait so yeah while I wouldn't keep everything I don't it should be shit on the way it usually is.
Nevermind the fact that if you have someone who's christian they'll take shit all day and if they're not well you gotta be respectful man, but it's mostly in the media because I never talk about religion in person anyway.
(Me I give shit to everyone including atheist, I just don't care).
Well if it sells...
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
This is the only subject that i agree with the GOP. In return it would great if the government starts promoting heavily sex ed classes as when kids reach 8th grade they would know all they need to know. After all, education about sex is the best way to prevent unwanted pregnancies.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
And cheap/free birth control.
Sex-ed alone won't really help.
There's no chance of that happening though, but there's no need to worry about that as the GOP will hopefully not win this year.
heliconsoul
Member
You're all for forcing raped women to bear their attackers children? That's a very base way of looking at it but that's what it boils down to.
I just can't grasp this viewpoint, I've read all though this thread but cannot understand why anyone of a sane and balanced state of mind would think that's a good or fair idea.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
I thought condoms are cheap. But yeah that too.
I have a sane balanced state of mind thank you very much. If someone disagree with you, you just throw insults at them. What a load of crap.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
They just consider a fetus to be an innocent person.
I fully understand that viewpoint, and that they consider abortion to be murder. The question is if it's possible to make them reconsider their position or reach a compromise to a degree, otherwise you just have to hope for the majority of people being pro-choice.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
So uh, these guys are getting hosed come November right?
Right?
Right?
heliconsoul
Member
Yes re-reading that I was a little overboard with the wording so apologise there, I guess I just find it hard to identify with that particular stance.
The debate over fetus/person is definitely the decisive sticking point, personally I share the view of others that a fetus should not be considered a person until birth. But I'll concede that I would not feel right aborting late into a pregnancy (say as a figurative line in the sand 5 months+ unless there was a serious medical issue)
Dont republicans see that if they ban abortions, there will be a rise in crime and government handouts? A lot of the people who need and should use abortions are lower class, young teenagers, or people where they can not handle having a baby with the proper care in that time of their life.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
but, Jesus
heliconsoul
Member
That's what boggles my mind:
Outlaw abortions
Don't increase welfare (are they trying to reduce it?)
Reduce medical aid / free healthcare
Don't increase sex education / make allowances for free contraception
How is this not a recipe for disaster?
I was about to make a post musing about this. I'm not "pro" abortion, I don't think anyone is - but i understand why it's essential.
What would happen to American society if abortion was made illegal?
But we increase American boostrap production by 10000%
CharlieDigital
Banned
Only criminals would have abortions.
heliconsoul
Member
I see, once bootstrap production reaches critical mass does that trigger the wealth to trickle down
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
so
Miscarriages will now be, "Miscarriages"
Miscarriages will now be, "Miscarriages"
Obama will probably win but the republicans will continue winning house and senate seats. People in general just don't vote in that shit but the crazy old white republicans do.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
It´s cool. I share the view that the fetus should be protected since its inception. I guess the only way i would support abortion if the mother to be´s life is in danger. Than she and her partner, or her alone can make the decision to abort the baby or die try to save the baby´s life.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Regarding the sliding scale of when it's okay/not-okay to abort:
Say it's 100% okay to abort at day 1, and 0% okay to abort at day 270 (barring medical emergencies that will kill both the mother and fetus anyway and other special cases), then we get something like this:
Week 1 to 4 - 97.4% to 89.6% okay
Week 4 to 8 - 89.6% to 79.2% okay
Week 8 to 16 - 79.2% to 58.5% okay
At some point though it's less than 50% okay to have an abortion, which I suggest should be hard limit on when you can freely choose to have an abortion (after that you enter the grey area of special cases that is best left to the doctor to decide). The 50% break-off point is somewhat nicely put at week 20 (month 5), but I have a feeling that not too many would agree with this.
Then again, I think the legal limit in the United States is at week 20 or 24.
Say it's 100% okay to abort at day 1, and 0% okay to abort at day 270 (barring medical emergencies that will kill both the mother and fetus anyway and other special cases), then we get something like this:
Week 1 to 4 - 97.4% to 89.6% okay
Week 4 to 8 - 89.6% to 79.2% okay
Week 8 to 16 - 79.2% to 58.5% okay
At some point though it's less than 50% okay to have an abortion, which I suggest should be hard limit on when you can freely choose to have an abortion (after that you enter the grey area of special cases that is best left to the doctor to decide). The 50% break-off point is somewhat nicely put at week 20 (month 5), but I have a feeling that not too many would agree with this.
Then again, I think the legal limit in the United States is at week 20 or 24.
We have a long list of great options:
Illegal abortions are performed
A market for " do-it-yourself" abortions rises
More babies are left in the street to die
Babies become our food supply in the year 3000.
Glorious!
ErasureAcer
Banned
What the hell are you talking about? 99.9% of people who vote for President vote for House/Senate. City water supervisor on the other hand is a different story.
Dems will gain seats in the House. In the Senate I see a gain of 2/3 but many project a loss of 2 now that Akin is dead which was at 3.
CornBurrito
Member
All the cells in your body are alive. Should cancer patients seeking to destroy cancer cells in their body also admit that they are killing a life?
Do you consider suicide and euthanasia to be the same thing?
phosphor112
Banned
Does anyone have a list of GOP members that back this?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
What does a platform for no abortions even in the case of rape or incest have to do with small government or lower taxes
Why?
I mean it's pretty clear at this point, no?
If someone had a problem with that they'd be pretty vocal about it, right?
Which is actually fun, because you know that's like the polar opposite of small government...
phosphor112
Banned
I'd just like to know, more flack for my political arsenal. So is this being presented at the RNC this year?
So true. I'm actually a registered Republican still but I just can't see any possible way that anyone who isn't SUPER right wing could vote for the party leadership at this point. It has utterly been co-opted by zealots.
Sir Garbageman
Member
This just sounds absolutely bonkers to me. Is the GOP that far extreme? Holy shit. I heard someone say something to the effect of, "republican voters typically think the republican party is a lot more moderate than they actually are".
Maybe this will be the straw to break the proverbial camel's back.
Maybe this will be the straw to break the proverbial camel's back.
Omegasquash
Member
Wow. Ideological lines are getting drawn in the sand for what kind of country we're going to have, and it'll all be called democratic one way or another.
If ever there were a time for calm discourse between people, it's now.
If ever there were a time for calm discourse between people, it's now.
I'd like to see receipts for those numbers. Is that why Obama won Florida yet we're mostly republican on every other level?
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