Court set to rule on Apple vs Samsung case in a few minutes

Status
Not open for further replies.
I forgot about this mistake, oh god samsung using ios maps to advertise your phone lol.
samsung-galaxy-50.png

EDIT: you would have to be insane to think that samsung does not rip off apple hard, http://samsungcopiesapple.tumblr.com/ has loads of examples.

this is so fucking funny lol. that blog has so many other exmaples ive never seen before either. jesus christ samsung, absolutely shameless.
 
But sir I'm confused - this thread has taught me that Samsung are the true innovators that are being struck down by the man through no fault of their own.
 
This proves beyond reasonable doubt that at least within Samsung's subconscious -it doesn't have to be intentional- there is a deep desire to be as Apple-like as possible.

I think their internal business statement is probably along the lines of "be as successful as Apple/learn from Apple" - they do seem to want to be like Apple
 
Here's another example of this extreme Apple-envy Samsung seems to be suffering from:

Samsung-Retail-3.jpg


http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/08/25/check-out-samsungs-apple-store-clone

It's almost like a joke at this point. The Samsung "Smart Guys" even wear the same blue uniform as the Apple guys!

Pretty sure a best buy placed electronics in a similar manner in there stores with info placards next to their products. They also wear blue where as Apple has no blue in any of their logos really. Samsung's logo is at least blue.
 
Pretty sure a best buy placed electronics in a similar manner in there stores with info placards next to their products. They also wear blue where as Apple has no blue in any of their logos really. Samsung's logo is at least blue.
Slight difference...
Best-Buy-Google-Mobile-App.jpg
 
Slight difference...
Best-Buy-Google-Mobile-App.jpg

It is still tables in the middle of the floor plan with products on them. They use white so what? Every clothing store in existence basically uses white too. I just fail to see how their stores being similar is the defacto Samsung are dirty copiers.
 
Sadly, It's been going on for a while in these discussions. That the mental gymnastics are to the defense/benefit Samsung of all companies is just bonus entertainment.

It's almost like they pretend all those internal Samsung documents that spell out how and why they should copy the iPhone don't exist.
 
There are still people that are hesitant to deal with touchscreens because they still have a mental trap of thinking the technology is inaccurate or too demanding of hard surface contact. It's terribly stubborn to say that the iPhone's touchscreen, the way the software responds to it, and how much it popularized the input method haven't changed the cellphone industry. You could even make a reasonable argument for it popularizing touchscreens across all consumer technology.

People get too caught up in the semantics of innovation, revolution, etc. You have to step back from word choice and just focus on broad trends. I think of things like DOS to Macintosh/Windows. Anyone can make DOS do what they want. The first Macintosh and Windows made computing much easier, fun to use, and opened up new ways of interacting with technology to the point that no one was making command line interfaces anymore. The GUI and mouse changed everything, and it's not arrogant or elitist or fanboyish to say things like that.
 
There are still people that are hesitant to deal with touchscreens because they still have a mental trap of thinking the technology is inaccurate or too demanding of hard surface contact. It's terribly stubborn to say that the iPhone's touchscreen, the way the software responds to it, and how much it popularized the input method haven't changed the cellphone industry. You could even make a reasonable argument for it popularizing touchscreens across all consumer technology.

I remember when the iphone came out and I had got a grey market one here in Canada before they were officially released here.

Whenever I handed it off to someone for the first time, they always tried to touch the screen with the edge of the fingernail because, until that point, every touchscreen device they had used was a) resistive tech that needed firm pressure and b) had software designed with tiny tap targets and a stylus. I had to reassure them they could just tap on stuff regularly without making an effort.

Now, of course, everyone knows how to use a touchscreen device with their fat fingers and thumbs. it's so... obvious.
 
The people saying the touchscreen was an obvious next step: almost every iPhone render made by fans on the Internet had a clickwheel or a flip phone design. Even Apple was trying to make a clickwheel work. The touchscreen was not as obvious and easy a leap as you're revising history to make it seem.
 
There are still people that are hesitant to deal with touchscreens because they still have a mental trap of thinking the technology is inaccurate or too demanding of hard surface contact. It's terribly stubborn to say that the iPhone's touchscreen, the way the software responds to it, and how much it popularized the input method haven't changed the cellphone industry. You could even make a reasonable argument for it popularizing touchscreens across all consumer technology.

People get too caught up in the semantics of innovation, revolution, etc. You have to step back from word choice and just focus on broad trends. I think of things like DOS to Macintosh/Windows. Anyone can make DOS do what they want. The first Macintosh and Windows made computing much easier, fun to use, and opened up new ways of interacting with technology to the point that no one was making command line interfaces anymore. The GUI and mouse changed everything, and it's not arrogant or elitist or fanboyish to say things like that.

What is arrogant or elitist or fanboyish to say is that Apple has the exclusive rights to it and no one else is allowed to use it. Unless you actually think that because Mac did it first, Windows is not allowed to exist and only Mac users are allowed to have a mouse and GUI.
 
What is arrogant or elitist or fanboyish to say is that Apple has the exclusive rights to it and no one else is allowed to use it. Unless you actually think that because Mac did it first, Windows is not allowed to exist and only Mac users are allowed to have a mouse and GUI.
No one is saying that.
 
The people saying the touchscreen was an obvious next step: almost every iPhone render made by fans on the Internet had a clickwheel or a flip phone design. Even Apple was trying to make a clickwheel work. The touchscreen was not as obvious and easy a leap as you're revising history to make it seem.

Replace touchscreen with multi touchscreen and I'd agree with you. There were other phones with touchscreens long before the iPhone.
 
No one is saying that.

If you're comparing Apple vs. Samsung today to Apple vs. Microsoft of yesteryear like that, it pretty much is what you are saying. Had Apple won the infamous "look and feel" lawsuit against MS more than a decade ago, they would have forced MS to stop selling Windows much in the same way they will now try to force Samsung to stop selling smartphones.
 
The people saying the touchscreen was an obvious next step: almost every iPhone render made by fans on the Internet had a clickwheel or a flip phone design. Even Apple was trying to make a clickwheel work. The touchscreen was not as obvious and easy a leap as you're revising history to make it seem.

My Sony Ericsson I had before the iPhone came out has a d-pad, and no fewer than NINE buttons on the front, in addition to the flip out keypad. In some ways it is superior for games, if you ignore the 400x200 screen res and the lol processor in it.

I lost my iPhone and have been using it until the new one comes out... Good god. Yeah it has apps, Internet, plays mp3s. But it does it in such a horrible clunky fashion.
 
The evidence for copying for the jurors to decide wasn't just asking them to plainly look at the phones, it includes documents like this one where Samsung designers were continually instructed to change features to make their phones more like the iPhone:
http://allthingsd.com/20120807/sams...ld-be-better-if-it-were-more-like-the-iphone/

Emails from Google execs asking Samsung to stop making devices look too much like Apple products:
http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...ng-to-make-design-less-like-apple-lawyer-says

And emails by Samsung execs saying how the iPhone should be the standard they follow for design. Including saying they should "make something like the iPhone."
http://allthingsd.com/20120806/iphone-caused-crisis-of-design-at-samsung-memo/

This is paired by testimony of Samsung designers who said they never referenced or considered the iPhone in their designs. Even after all those emails and even a document that specifically references the iPhone in how they should alter their phone designs.

The jurors obviously latched on to that:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57500358-37/exclusive-apple-samsung-juror-speaks-out/

This isn't particularly convincing. You can make it your goal to be "as good" as anything. It doesn't mean you've copied that thing.

Given that the Galaxy doesn't look very much like the iPhone at all, except at the most basic level, the trade dress suit should have been thrown out in minutes. Given that the other patents are absolutely inane, the court should have set a precedent by refusing to award damages for them.

These jurors were grade-A morons.
 
They sucked. I expanded on this in my first post.

Which was a technological problem with the hardware, not about the software.

Once the capacitive touchscreen hardware improved to the point where it was accurate, the software(which are the patents we are talking about) is an obvious extension of that technology. Once you have a capacitive touchscreen that you use with your fingers almost all of the software changes follow directly from that.

Just because Apple was the first to make the jump to the new technology (which they didn't invent) in scale, doesn't mean they should own all of the interface methods that naturally follow from the use of the technology.
 
This isn't particularly convincing. You can make it your goal to be "as good" as anything. It doesn't mean you've copied that thing.

Given that the Galaxy doesn't look very much like the iPhone at all, except at the most basic level, the trade dress suit should have been thrown out in minutes. Given that the other patents are absolutely inane, the court should have set a precedent by refusing to award damages for them.

These jurors were grade-A morons.
So what did you think of the first document?

You also need to reconcile all the documentary evidence with the claims by Samsung witnesses (in recorded testimony) that they didn't reference the iPhone at all. The documents kept referring to the iPhone. The witnesses wouldn't admit that they did, which was something the jurors found dodgy, including their unwillingness to testify in court.

What basic level are you talking regarding the Galaxy? And which Galaxy? The Galaxy S2 (most variants) weren't found to infringe, for instance. The Galaxy S2 Showcase did, the Samsung Fascinate did, the Galaxy S i9000 did.
 
So what did you think of the first document?

You also need to reconcile all the documentary evidence with the claims by Samsung witnesses (in recorded testimony) that they didn't reference the iPhone at all. The documents kept referring to the iPhone. The witnesses wouldn't admit that they did, which was something the jurors found dodgy, including their unwillingness to testify in court.

What basic level are you talking regarding the Galaxy? And which Galaxy? The Galaxy S2 (most variants) weren't found to infringe, for instance. The Galaxy S2 Showcase did, the Samsung Fascinate did, the Galaxy S i9000 did.

Look, it's clear that you have a horse in this race. I don't, and I don't particularly care to discuss the minutiae of this case. I would just advise you to look at the overwhelming flood of posters who don't particularly care about Apple or Samsung one way or the other who have come into this thread to decry this ruling. Like me, most of them don't care to have an extended debate on the matter. However, the fact that the ratio of people who think this ruling was terrible vs people who think this ruling was good is so overwhelmingly stacked in favor of those who think the ruling was terrible is telling. It shows that to the typical person, this ruling seems to fly completely in the face of common sense and reason.

Once the capacitive touchscreen hardware improved to the point where it was accurate, the software(which are the patents we are talking about) is an obvious extension of that technology. Once you have a capacitive touchscreen that you use with your fingers almost all of the software changes follow directly from that.

Just because Apple was the first to make the jump to the new technology (which they didn't invent) in scale, doesn't mean they should own all of the interface methods that naturally follow from the use of the technology.

See this is the kind of common sense I'm talking about.
 
Look, it's clear that you have a horse in this race. I don't, and I don't particularly care to discuss the minutiae of this case. I would just advise you to look at the overwhelming flood of posters who don't particularly care about Apple or Samsung one way or the other who have come into this thread to decry this ruling. Like me, most of them don't care to have an extended debate on the matter. However, the fact that the ratio of people who think this ruling was terrible vs people who think this ruling was good is so overwhelmingly stacked in favor of those who think the ruling was terrible is telling. It shows that to the typical person, this ruling seems to fly completely in the face of common sense and reason.



See this is the kind of common sense I'm talking about.
You were the one that told me that you bought a Samsung phone because you had a "soft spot in your heart for Korea."
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=437843

If you don't even know exactly what the verdict is, what evidence was displayed, I don't think you can say much about what common sense says regarding the verdict.

Who uses GAF reactions as an positive argument? I don't care about the "overwhelming flood of posters." Especially if most of them don't even know what happened at trial, the arguments made by both sides and their witnesses, and what the confines of the verdict entail. If you want to use "flood of posters" as evidence for what opinions should be, there are tons of topics where I can say you're not showing "common sense." There are tons of topics where I strictly do not care about the GAF pile-on, because a lot of times, that's a misinformed pile-on. And maybe it shouldn't come as a surprise, but often times they come on things I have personal knowledge and experience in, such as China or legal matters.
 
However, the fact that the ratio of people who think this ruling was terrible vs people who think this ruling was good is so overwhelmingly stacked in favor of those who think the ruling was terrible is telling. It shows that to the typical person, this ruling seems to fly completely in the face of common sense and reason.
The ratio of people from where? NeoGAF? The internet? People you've talked to?

Sounds laughably anecdotal to me. If you really think geeky message boards represent what the majority of people think or feel then... I don't know what to say. Out of touch much?
 
For real. These boards have a massive anti Apple slant. For example when Apple got into trouble for working conditions in China it was a massive multi page / multiple threads of fuck Apple - claiming i will never buy a product under these conditions even though it was pointed out multiple times the other electronic companies use the same facilities.

When Samsung got into the same issue recently guess how many pages.

2

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=485709
 
Which was a technological problem with the hardware, not about the software.

Once the capacitive touchscreen hardware improved to the point where it was accurate, the software(which are the patents we are talking about) is an obvious extension of that technology. Once you have a capacitive touchscreen that you use with your fingers almost all of the software changes follow directly from that.

Just because Apple was the first to make the jump to the new technology (which they didn't invent) in scale, doesn't mean they should own all of the interface methods that naturally follow from the use of the technology.

What does capacitive multi touch have to do with the scroll limit bounce behavior exactly?

Pinch to zoom, debatable. Personally I find it inefficient, tapping is much quicker and can be done with one hand.
 
It's all common sense, guys. Don't you have common sense? If you had common sense you would agree with me.

It seems pretty damn obvious and sensible that you shouldn't be able to register such inane patents as "pinch to zoom" any more than you should be able to patent wheels on a car, pressing A to jump, or two wings on an airplane.
 
For real. These boards have a massive anti Apple slant. For example when Apple got into trouble for working conditions in China it was a massive multi page / multiple threads of fuck Apple - claiming i will never buy a product under these conditions even though it was pointed out multiple times the other electronic companies use the same facilities.

When Samsung got into the same issue recently guess how many pages.

2

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=485709

C'mon it's not that hard to figure out. One is supposed to be some icon of American entrepreneurship which happens to make massive profits off each product and tries to portray itself as a green/socially responsible company that has advanced mankind as a whole. The other just makes cheap products.

If Samsung ever got to the size of Apple and tried to portray itself in the same light as Apple does, no doubt they would get the same level of hate.
 
Are you posting from the year 10,191? Even iOS has useful CLI-driven apps.

Does Apple control the spice?

If Samsung ever got to the size of Apple and tried to portray itself in the same light as Apple does, no doubt they would get the same level of hate.

You don't actually know how big Samsung is, do you? Let me give you a hint: The Samsung Group is singlehandedly responsible for 20% of South Korea's entire GDP. Apple is a tiny company compared to Samsung.
 
It seems pretty damn obvious and sensible that you shouldn't be able to register such inane patents as "pinch to zoom" any more than you should be able to patent wheels on a car, pressing A to jump, or two wings on an airplane.

Why not? Companies should be allowed to patent sleeping pills and not the implementation or the cure for cancer. It's the right thing to do!
 
It seems pretty damn obvious and sensible that you shouldn't be able to register such inane patents as "pinch to zoom" any more than you should be able to patent wheels on a car, pressing A to jump, or two wings on an airplane.

And why wouldn't you be able to patent an invention/method. Do you know that even pop-corn chicken is patented (KFC and others pay a licensing fees to use it). And do you know that patents expire. By your example if someone had patented wheels on a car, that patent has probably expired and everyone can put wheels on cars.
 
It seems pretty damn obvious and sensible that you shouldn't be able to register such inane patents as "pinch to zoom" any more than you should be able to patent wheels on a car, pressing A to jump, or two wings on an airplane.
Look, even if you and others claims about software patents are correct, if you were hoping for this case to bring a revamp of the patent system, this wasn't going to be the case. IIRC, Samsung wasn't even spending time arguing that pinch to zoom, etc. were obvious, vague, or whatever, they based their case against patents on prior art that dealt with things like table top projector prototypes.

The jurors are mostly going to deal with the arguments made by Samsung, and Samsung, despite a bit of grandstanding rhetoric, was not making the case for patent invalidity.

You know what Samsung was doing instead of spending all their arguments against the validity of Apple's patents? They were arguing and putting on paid experts to talk about why their patents were valid--patents such as one for playing music in the background while web surfing, or sending an email with a photo attachment. And they were trying to use FRAND patents offensively and arguing why they should be able to charge Apple for patents on Intel chips when Intel had already paid for them. It's really hard to argue against the patent system in one breath while in the next breath Samsung is putting on highly credentialed and highly paid experts to argue about why Samsung's patents for emailing a photo or listening to an MP3 in the background are valid. This is probably why they weren't vigorously arguing the "obviousness" factor of pinch to zoom, etc. They'd look like hypocrites and risk invalidating their own patents.

Jurors can really only work with the arguments the lawyers present. And if Samsung itself is putting on academic experts to tell the jury why listening to music in the background or emailing photos are valid patents, Apple is also putting up experts to tell you about why their patents are valid, and neither side putting up a Richard Stallman to say, "a pox on both houses, software patents are bad." With both sides spending millions of dollars on experts to tell the jury that "software patents are good, especially the ones owned by the party that I'm arguing for, just not the patents of the other side, they're bad," or, the other party's patents are good, but my party isn't infringing them because of these specific differences from implementation," you are mostly going come away convinced that software patents are ok.

Maybe you could've changed the system if Samsung wasn't countersuing with software patents of their own, so they could spend their time arguing about why all such patents are bad instead of spending their time arguing why their patents are good. But that's the litigation strategy of all these companies--fight patents with patents. They've become deeply invested in the system and are not going to upend it because that overturns a lot of their side businesses in cross-licensing or risks zeroing out the money they spent on prior patents.

This is what you're going to see in the Google v. Apple case that was recently filed (Google sued Apple over patents over things like location-based reminders, video players, and email notification) if it goes to trial. Google will put up highly credentialed experts and highly paid experts to argue that their software patents are valid, Apple will put on experts to argue why they're patents are valid, neither side will put up an RMS type guy that will argue against the system. This is not the way that you're going to convince jurors that software patents are bad.

Jurors only work with what the attorneys give them, and it's not a good expectation that they will disrupt the software patent system when both sides are constantly telling them about the validity of their own software patents. They aren't morons when they're only responding to what both sides' attorneys and their experts have constantly reinforced throughout trial--software patents are good, software patents are important, especially our software patents.
 
I've been watching all these discussion all over the net for the past two days, and it's hilarious.

Samsung's CEO could have gotten on the witness stand, said "Sure we copied Apple. Suck my dick", and the anti-Apple people would still argue that Apple is in the wrong.
 
I've been watching all these discussion all over the net for the past two days, and it's hilarious.

Samsung's CEO could have gotten on the witness stand, said "Sure we copied Apple. Suck my dick", and the anti-Apple people would still argue that Apple is in the wrong.

yeah. i don't understand how people can hate apple sooo much
 
yeah. i don't understand how people can hate apple sooo much

It's nothing new. I got harassed by teenage turbo-nerds way back at the dawn of the '90s for liking the Mac.

Something about Apple has spawned hatred from a certain segment of computer-oriented people since they were founded.
 
The iPod on my desk and the Mac Mini I have at home say I don't really have anything against Apple.

For me, this is 100% about our horrible patent system.
 
Regardless of the actual debates going on, this idea of Apple as the big bad man has to be kind of surreal for any long-time Apple fans (pre-iPod).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom