Breaking Bad - Season 5, Part 1 - Sundays on AMC
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Captain_Spanky
Member
"Shut the fuck up and let me die in peace" is one of the greatest lines I've ever heard. Such a perfect end to the character.
Walt has created a web of death, lies, and betrayal, all leading back to his decision to cook meth, and then being too greedy to get out when he had the chance. And who cares if Jane might have died even if he intervened--he still made a conscious decision to let a person die.
Re: misogyny: Just because a particular female character is unlikable doesn't make her responsible for the terrible things that happen in the show. The very idea that Skyler is "the villain" is not only ignorant, it absolutely reeks of misogyny. She has certainly enabled Walt, but Walt put her in an impossible position (which is exactly what he intended).
Psychological Intellect
Banned
walt didn't kill mike, mike's mouth killed mike.
no, walt didn't kill mike, the car crash did
no, walt didn't kill mike, the bullet did.
schwabdizzle
Banned
Good point....I didn't think about that.
Uh? That realization is sort of crucial to his remorse. Plus I'm pretty sure it was more of a reminder to the audience as to how senseless this killing was, and not a moment of egotistic selfishness.
The Big Rig
Member
They just got rid of one of their best characters. The only solace I have is knowing that more great characters are coming and being developed. Can't wait.
The meth game itself is a web of death, lies, and betrayal. The death started early, when Krazy 8 tried to kill Walt and Jesse in an early episode of the first season. Walt didn't create that; it was already there. Same with Combo getting killed, Tomas getting killed, etc. Those are consequences of being in that game, and no one person is responsible for them.
It's not until Season 5 where you start to see a trail of bodies that Walt was deliberately and personally responsible for.
Re:Re: misogyny: When you start making assumptions about another member based on a disagreement about a fictional character, you're crossing a line between what's acceptable and what's not. I'm happy to discuss characters in this thread, but please keep the ad hominem attacks out of here.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
After last night's episode, I'm at the point where I don't care about Walt anymore. All I'm waiting for is his demise, whether that's from the cancer or being killed (I think being killed is getting off too easy for Walt).
It's strange. For shows like The Shield, I've always liked bad guy like Vic Mackey; even until the end.
I've always rooted ford Walt, even with the other killings, whether direct or indirect, but he's finally gone off the benz where his ego and childish temper makes him do unrationalize things. He was gonna kill Mike no matter what (which is why he took the gun from the bag in the first place).
Anyway, I'm not sure if this is the creator's intentions, but you just can't root for him anymore. Maybe it's kinda like Tony Montana. You rooted for him, but after he killed Manny, you just didn't care for him.
It's strange. For shows like The Shield, I've always liked bad guy like Vic Mackey; even until the end.
I've always rooted ford Walt, even with the other killings, whether direct or indirect, but he's finally gone off the benz where his ego and childish temper makes him do unrationalize things. He was gonna kill Mike no matter what (which is why he took the gun from the bag in the first place).
Anyway, I'm not sure if this is the creator's intentions, but you just can't root for him anymore. Maybe it's kinda like Tony Montana. You rooted for him, but after he killed Manny, you just didn't care for him.
shadyspace
Banned
I had no problem rooting for Vic and Tony right through the end of their journeys. Walt is really rubbing me the wrong way this season. Probably because it's more clear than ever that he's never been more than a weakling play acting as a real man.
Egotistic selfishness is senseless.
Additionally, he felt regret in that he did something unnecesary, not the fact that he killed someone.
The Big Rig
Member
I think their trying to transition the sympathetic character from Walt to Jessie. I think Jessie's character arc has been much better through out the series than Walt's.
They made that transition three seasons ago pretty much.
I simply see no other explanation for your calling Skyler the "villain." If you can satisfactorily explain exactly how she's more of a villain than Walt, I'll change my tune.
She's the main antagonist in the first half of Season 3. By the end of the season though, that role has shifted to Gus.
Fuck yo satisfaction, clown.
Power Glove
Member
Someone should overlay an EA logo on Walt's head so it can be used when they close their next studio.
This argument presupposes that Walt is the hero of the series, which is like calling Tony the "hero" of The Sopranos.
There's a difference between main characters and "heroes," especially in shows like this. BB deals in shades of gray, not simplistic high school English class concepts like "protagonists" or "antagonists."
Psychological Intellect
Banned
man jesse's taste in shirt's just gets worse and worse.
Lol, where do people come up with this stuff?
Spieler Eins
Member
Sad to see Mike go, he was a fun character, no doubt. You could see it coming, though that made it tense. However, the logic used in here is ridiculous. He killed people for his living, but only when it comes to Walt YOU MUST BRING YA MORALS TO THIS FICTIONAL TV SHOW HURRRR.
At the end of the day, it was just the next step in Walts transformation into fullbown Heisenberg insanity, which will fuck things up even harder. Can't wait to see more of that! The elimination of Hank is inevitable and it will be glorious. (Well, next year... :[ )
At the end of the day, it was just the next step in Walts transformation into fullbown Heisenberg insanity, which will fuck things up even harder. Can't wait to see more of that! The elimination of Hank is inevitable and it will be glorious. (Well, next year... :[ )
schwabdizzle
Banned
6 I think.
Because Mike isn't directed by his pride. He'd rather die in peace than rage about something as inconsequential in the long run as who killed him.
Contrast with Walt's pitiful pleading at the end of Season 3.
Hero is just a word. So is villain. They're just concepts with no meaning but what we assign to them. Fiction is loaded with villains who weren't traditionally evil. See, for example, Ferris Bueller's Day Off, where the film's main antagonist is a principal trying to track down a truant student.
Skyler wasn't traditionally evil in the same sense as an Emperor Palpatine or a Hannibal Lecter, but she still fucked Ted and ruined Walt Jr's breakfasts.
Forgive me if I don't take this debate particularly seriously, but you're coming in towards the end of the show's run, opening with ad hominems, and then asking me to rehash arguments that have been going on for two years.
In the Grecian style, definitely. His downfall is entirely his own creation. Walt is as much a hero as Creon or Oedipus.
There was a lot wrong with Vic Mackey, but he was always interested in really protecting his family (contrast Vic's treatment of Corinne to Walt's treatment of Skylar), and he usually put the Strike Team ahead of money. He legitimately tried to protect his people in his own twisted way.
I've been rewatching The Shield lately and had a couple of realizations:
- Skylar is basically a saint compared to Mara. Mara you could make a compelling case for as a villain.
- I am really, really worried for Jesse. After last night, I'm starting to wonder if (Shield spoilers)
Todd is going to be the Shane to Jesse's Lem. If we're still watching Walt's story, losing the most moral part of his life would be huge, and could set him up to be trying to deal with both Todd and Hank during the series endgame.
Who were those?
Mike was out. Walt poisoning a kid that has had 4 minutes of screen time isn't the same as killing a supporting character, and a great one at that.
la flama blanca
Banned
This is the first time Walt has just straight up directly murdered someone right?
Cuban Legend
Member
vs
The people that think skylar was a villian are insane misogynists.
Hey fuck that, just because Skylar actively wants her husband to die and "stay away from his children" I'm suddenly hating on women? lol
And don't get me started on that whole rant she had to walt when she tried to outsmart him by "using herself as a victim" bullshit.
Spectral Glider
Member
I think it's funny that some people think there are those of us that liked Mike because he was a "good guy." No, I liked Mike because his character was written with no nonsense or bullshit and because the actor playing him fucking nailed it. He had become more interesting to watch to me. Plus there was an air of mystery still to him about what was it that made a former cop break bad. Walter with his sloppy and, at times, slap-sticky persona of Heisenberg is frankly boring me by this point. The fact that he's now just a full blown asshole is just extra motivation for me to see his demise.
does anyone know who does the music for this show (or this episode). S5 has had some great tension music.
the 2 thugs and the guy he killed in his basement.
the 2 thugs and the guy he killed in his basement.
THE-Pink-Dagger
Member
Oh fu ck, I expected Walt to shoot him, but didnt think they would have the balls to make him do it. Despite that, and the heartbreaking scene at the end, I am still rooting for Walt, till the end, I felt the same with Vic in The Shield, rooting for him till the very end.
I have to say though that I feel like they could go on for another season, just 9 more episodes to conclude this doesn't seme enough for me, maybe that's where the movie rumor (talked about by Betsy Brandt in an ITW, a couple of weeks ago) comes in.
I dont think that Jesse will be hurt but if he ever dies (please no), or something happens to him, Walt will lose his shit even more than he already has.
As you all said it, he's losing control, well funny that the episode should start with him in full control with balls of steel and finishes with him losing control, he shoots Mike without thinking, out of fear, and yep, the old Walt resurfaces in the very last moments of the episode.
I have to say though that I feel like they could go on for another season, just 9 more episodes to conclude this doesn't seme enough for me, maybe that's where the movie rumor (talked about by Betsy Brandt in an ITW, a couple of weeks ago) comes in.
I dont think that Jesse will be hurt but if he ever dies (please no), or something happens to him, Walt will lose his shit even more than he already has.
As you all said it, he's losing control, well funny that the episode should start with him in full control with balls of steel and finishes with him losing control, he shoots Mike without thinking, out of fear, and yep, the old Walt resurfaces in the very last moments of the episode.
Spieler Eins
Member
There were these thugs he killed before they blew up the lab last year, I think?
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
Too bad the Olympics are over. Really seems like Puddles could have won the gold in Mental Gymnastics.
The 2 guys at the laundry, as he's breaking Jesse out after Fring's death.
Most people don't consider any of those except Mike to be "murders".
Legally, sure, but that's not the definition most people are referring to, since they were all in self-defense (or Jesse's defense).
I call this one Walt's first real murder.
No, people from the gaming side would take all three medals. I might not even make it through the qualifiers.
la flama blanca
Banned
Ok, but he killed Mike for no real good reason. There's no way he could justify this killing like the others.
Ok we finally agree.
(off topic, I barely post in gaming and I had someone call for me to be banned because I said I was excited to try The Worls Ends With You on my iPad lol)
He killed Emilio as well.
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